Not dyslexia but what?

[LLMom]

I just had my 9th grade daughter tested through the local school district for dyslexia. She is struggling in her private school and has symptoms similar to my diagnosed dyslexic 10 year old. But she is not dyslexic. She has poor reading rate, low reading comp., poor listening comprehension, and low vocabulary. They had no recommendations. I took the results to my other daughters dyslexia tutor, and she suggested to have her tested for adhd inattentive type. Or maybe auditory processing problems. These all have similar symptoms. Any other suggestions?

Edited January 27, 2016 by LLMom

[wapiti]

Rule out developmental vision problems with a covd optometrist.  Usually, they will screen for such problems at a regular annual vision checkup, when you can discuss whether the full developmental vision eval might be warranted.  http://www.covd.org

 

I have a couple kids with language processing issues that are not dyslexia.  Vocabulary and comprehension weaknesses relative to strengths in other areas.  It was recommended that we work on comprehension, and in particular, making inferences.  There are workbooks for this sort of thing.  See also discussions about Visualizing and Verbalizing.

[MisH]

Does your school district do a thoroughly comprehensive evaluation for dyslexia?? Here, for example, in order to get an accurate diagnosis, it is through a Psychologist. Considering a family history (her younger sister is diagnosed, yes) and "similar symptoms", your 9th grader could still have dyslexia (or any of the other issues you mentioned), but only a very thorough eval will catch that (and not all school evals are thorough enough!). For that matter, anyone doing testing for dyslexia really needs to have plenty of experience with dyslexia specifically (i.e., cant' just go to any psychologist, have to have one who is familiar and experienced with it!)

 

 

[LLMom]

It is the same school district my other daughter was diagnosed by. They used the Wj-4, the WRMT-3, the Gort-5, Ctopp-2. My tutor said those are fairly standard tests and she was tested by the dyslexia coordinator of the district.

[ElizabethB]

I would screen for hearing and vision problems and give her all the tests on my testing page.

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/readinggradeleve.html

 

How did she learn to read? What program and any sight words or other whole word practices like guided reading, leveled readers, etc?

[PeterPan]

Did they give you all the subtest scores, so you can look through them yourself?  Yes, the CTOPP is what you wanted to see.  WJ4 is probably the Woodcock Johnson (achievement).  Was there an IQ?  That would give you processing speed, working memory, and let you see if there's a discrepancy between IQ and achievement.  In our state, they can consider discrepancy for diagnosing SLDs.

 

You need to be aware that the ps process of diagnosis is actually a little screwy.  They don't technically diagnose you to be helpful.  They identify where there is a disability that affects the dc's ability to receive an education.  So, don't faint, but if you are dyslexic and your dyslexia is JUST ENOUGH REMEDIATED that you're plugging along, the school is NOT going to identify it.  They're looking at the data, but they're not necessarily asking the same question you are.  You're asking what's going on, and they're asking if it's SO BAD and glaringly obvious that they HAVE to provide services.  

 

See the difference?  

 

So, me, the first thing I'd do is get all the breakdowns on all the tests and either post them here or take them somewhere else for a 2nd opinion. Because that's the first question to get sorted out, whether someone who isn't actually biased toward NOT PROVIDING SERVICES would interpret the test results differently.  

 

Here's the other gig.  You have the legal right to dispute results.  That's a very dissatisfactory situation for the school to be saying oh yeah, we see all these problems but we offer no explanation, no diagnosis, no 504 or IEP.  So then you have the legal right to dispute and request 3rd party evals on their dime!!  This is an important legal right!  But first, I would get those scores, run them by gurus (I'm not a guru), and see who more objective evaluators would see those scores.  

 

It's true, ADHD is going to be an explanation for that scenario, but even that is sort of a hogwash thing.  "Test" for ADHD?  What a joke.  They do an EF survey, sometimes give surveys to people who work with her (teachers, sunday school, whatever), and then do a ding, ding, ding computer test.  That's it.  And the school SHOULD have done it.  So me, I'd be back there with that question, why aren't they explaining this, kwim?  And that can be another substantiation for why they should pay for 3rd party evals.  

 

But start simple.  Get your scores, see how the scores were.  If they didn't run a WISC to get IQ, then did they run anything that gives you processing speed, working memory, etc.?  They didn't have a PSYCH see her???  A psych should have had NO trouble sorting this out, mercy.  

 

 

[LLMom]

Here is a break down of test scores.

 

Word reading. WRMT-3. 93 ( average)

Word reading WJ-4 97(average)

Decoding unfamiliar words accurately WRMT-3 94 (average)

Spelling. wJ-4 (109- average)

Spelling of sounds wJ-4 102 (average)

 

 

Reading rate. GORT-5. 85 ( below average)

Accuracy GORT -5 105( average)

Fluency GORT-5 95 (average)

 

Reading comprehension WRMT-3 79 (below average)

Reading comp. GORT-5 85 ( below average)

 

 

Phonological awareness CTOPP-2. 98 ( average)

Phonological memory CTOPP-2. 107 ( average)

Rapid naming CTOPP-2. 95 (average)

 

Listening comp. WRMT-3 83 (below average)

Vocabulary knowledge WRMT-3 93 (average)

[Storygirl]

Under the categories of assessment for learning disability, there is a designation of disability in reading comprehension (SLD Reading Comprehension). My son has SLD reading comprehension, even though he does not have a phonological disability (SLD reading; also known as dyslexia). Did your school find that she has a learning disability and qualify her for an IEP?

 

What to do for a reading comprehension disability is a tricky question. I accumulated some info on my other computer, which is currently out of commission. When I have it back up and running, I plan to start a thread just to talk about how to go about intervention.

 

The main school of thought is that students need to be directly instructed in reading strategies. If you google reading comprehension and reading strategies, you can get a sense of what might be involved. There are many, many reading strategies that can be taught, but for students with a disability, it is, of course, more difficult to get them to actually learn and apply the strategies, so they need targeted instruction.

 

The other question is, what causes a learning disability in comprehension. What is true for my son may not be the case for your daughter. But I will ask you whether they ran any pragmatics testing (this would be done by the speech therapist). Difficulty with pragmatics can cause issues with comprehension. But there are other things that can be involved. Attention and ADHD can be a contributing factor, for example. Teasing things out has been twisty and difficult in our case, and I'm still working through it to figure out how to help him.

 

Edited January 28, 2016 by Storygirl

[kbutton]

I would want to do vision with a COVD and get a hearing test and auditory processing screening with an audiologist, run in a booth.

 

I would want an IQ run.

 

I would consider a language evaluation--at least the CELF. If she does turn out to have some auditory processing problems, the CASL is recommended. It's more targeted to receptive and expressive language. 

 

You can have ADHD instead of or on top of other issues. I would want to know what's in play to know if treating the ADHD is a priority or working on something else is. That will not be the same formula for every child.

[Crimson Wife]

My little one struggles with reading because of issues with working memory, rapid naming, and the language delay. Phonological processing appears intact as far as they are able to tell.

 

In Overcoming Dyslexia by Dr. Sally Shaywitz, there is a brief mention of what IIRC she calls "Language-Based Reading Disability" as distinct from dyslexia. I'd have to go find the exact quote but it was along the lines of intact phonological processing but problems with language causing the reading disorder.

 

I agree with having CAPD testing by an audiologist and a CELF or CASL done by a speech & language pathologist.

[EKS]

You need to be aware that the ps process of diagnosis is actually a little screwy.  They don't technically diagnose you to be helpful.  They identify where there is a disability that affects the dc's ability to receive an education.  So, don't faint, but if you are dyslexic and your dyslexia is JUST ENOUGH REMEDIATED that you're plugging along, the school is NOT going to identify it.  They're looking at the data, but they're not necessarily asking the same question you are.  You're asking what's going on, and they're asking if it's SO BAD and glaringly obvious that they HAVE to provide services.  

 

This this this!!!  Our district doesn't (or, at least, didn't) even acknowledge that dyslexia exists.  To them it is all about whether the kid is vastly behind in a particular area.  And I mean *vastly* behind, like 2+ grade levels behind.  

 

My understanding is that diagnosing a fairly well compensated teen for dyslexia is tricky.  I'm pretty sure that your run-of-the-mill school psychologist isn't going to be well versed in such things.

Edited January 29, 2016 by EKS

[PeterPan]

My little one struggles with reading because of issues with working memory, rapid naming, and the language delay. Phonological processing appears intact as far as they are able to tell.

 

In Overcoming Dyslexia by Dr. Sally Shaywitz, there is a brief mention of what IIRC she calls "Language-Based Reading Disability" as distinct from dyslexia. I'd have to go find the exact quote but it was along the lines of intact phonological processing but problems with language causing the reading disorder.

 

I agree with having CAPD testing by an audiologist and a CELF or CASL done by a speech & language pathologist.

Bingo.  And they're going to say the low language scores are due to meta-linguistics, which is an EF (executive function) issue, which takes you back to the ADHD diagnosis.