Suggested reading order for Tamora Pierce Tortall books?

[AEC]

Hello-

 

  A bit ago I asked for recommendations for books for DD11. Several people recommended the Tortall books.  There are a lot of them - like 5 series of 3-4 books!  I've seen them listed two ways - in order of story chronology and in order of publication.  Anyone have a suggestion on the best reading order?? 

[Tanaqui]

So long as you read each subseries in order, you're golden. Any necessary background information is explained and then you can get on with the plot.

 

Personally, I think the series with Aly - Trickster's Choice and Trickster's Queen - is the best. All the other heroines are so serious all the time. Aly reads like somebody you could hang out with, maybe watch a movie. I just can't picture Kel or Alanna at a sleepover eating popcorn. (Also, Tamora Pierce's writing notably improves with each series. I'm sorry, but Alanna has a strong touch of the Mary Sue. For crying out loud, she has purple eyes and a magical cat that, iirc, might be a god. Those books are dear to my heart, but I'm scared to reread the first quartet as an adult! Don't want to ruin the memories.)

[forty-two]

I read (and reread) them in chronological order - you can figure things out well enough if you start with a later series, but they do include characters already introduced, and, idk, I prefer to know all the backstory and relationships and such, instead of just guessing or inferring or not even realizing the depth of information I'm missing.  Agree with a pp that the Trickster series is my favorite :) - I'm still in favor of reading them in order, but if you get bogged down and it's go out of order or nothing, then I vote for go out of order ;).

[Rosie_0801]

 I'm sorry, but Alanna has a strong touch of the Mary Sue. For crying out loud, she has purple eyes and a magical cat that, iirc, might be a god. Those books are dear to my heart, but I'm scared to reread the first quartet as an adult! Don't want to ruin the memories.)

 

I still like 'em and reread every year or so. :)

[Kristie in Florida]

I read the Tricksters series first and didn't have any problems, but my daughter insisted on starting with Alanna. She has been going in the order that they are listed in the later books.

[AEC]

chronological it is.  

 

thanks.

[Farrar]

I don't mind that Alanna has a strong dose of Mary Sue to her. I think most 12 yo girls want to read a Mary Sue story, honestly. The writing does get better... though I was not a fan of Beka Cooper at all. The other thing is that writing and publishing changed in the time she was writing them, so when she wrote Alanna, getting a long book published would have been crazy, but when the Trickster books were published, it was what the market demanded (thanks, Harry Potter).

 

I think the whole thing is strongly better as a whole. As a whole group, Pierce's girls/women are a hugely varied bunch with different approaches to life, romance, family, career, etc and different personalities and friendships. I feel like she did something that I haven't really seen very often in fantasy, which was to make a very diverse picture of different ways to be a successful woman. I think she didn't necessarily start out with that goal, but it was definitely very purposeful by the last couple of series.

[RootAnn]

Okay, Tamora Pierce is one of my eldest dd's favorite authors. We know all these books except, who is Mary Sue? We must have missed a series. Someone help with a book title, please?

[Tanaqui]

Mary Sue isn't a person, it's a term for an unrealistically perfect character in fiction, generally female. (The gender-specific term for male perfect characters is sometimes Gary Stu or Marty Stu.)

[RootAnn]

Mary Sue isn't a person, it's a term for an unrealistically perfect character in fiction, generally female. (The gender-specific term for male perfect characters is sometimes Gary Stu or Marty Stu.)

 

Thank you! Never heard of that before & my searches were coming up with something to this effect (in hindsight). DD would have loved another series of hers to read, however, so I'm a bit sad, too.  :huh:

[Tanaqui]

DD would have loved another series of hers to read, however, so I'm a bit sad, too.  :huh:

 

I feel you.

 

She might try reading some books by Hilari Bell, who managed to snag complimentary Tamora Pierce reviews on her covers. (You know, "Wow, this was an amazing book!" and the like by people the publisher thinks you might read and thus trust the opinions of?)

Edited December 8, 2015 by Tanaqui

[ocelotmom]

If you're comfortable with mild sexual content, I'd start with the Alanna books. If not, the Protector of the Small and Wild Magic series would both be good starting points (I started with the Wild Magic books, back when the Alanna books and Wild Magic were all that existed).

 

The Trickster books are on about the same level as the Alanna books. I can't quite see them as being a starting point, but I'm biased since they didn't exist when I started reading the series (I actually have the same problem with Protector of the Small, but have come to accept it as the best entry point for younger readers).

 

Beka Cooper is much more on the Young Adult end of the spectrum. I've also had a very hard time getting into it.

 

But I agree with Tanaqui that, overall, it doesn't matter which series you start with. Each series can be read as a standalone.

Edited December 8, 2015 by ocelotmom

[vonfirmath]

So long as you read each subseries in order, you're golden. Any necessary background information is explained and then you can get on with the plot.

 

Personally, I think the series with Aly - Trickster's Choice and Trickster's Queen - is the best. All the other heroines are so serious all the time. Aly reads like somebody you could hang out with, maybe watch a movie. I just can't picture Kel or Alanna at a sleepover eating popcorn. (Also, Tamora Pierce's writing notably improves with each series. I'm sorry, but Alanna has a strong touch of the Mary Sue. For crying out loud, she has purple eyes and a magical cat that, iirc, might be a god. Those books are dear to my heart, but I'm scared to reread the first quartet as an adult! Don't want to ruin the memories.)

 

Note that magical cat shows up again in the Beka series (Terrier,et al).

 

I LOVE the Trickster series. Those are the books I read over and over.

 

But I'd probably start with the Alanna series.

Then the Protector of the Small.  (Having never read the Immortals I do not know where they fit)

Then Trickster since it is about Alanna's daughter.

 

The Beka series works better after your are familiar with modern day Tortall, IMHO.  Though my husband, who doesn't like these books much at all, liked the second book and its focus on counterfeiting and the money supply.

[abba12]

I read (and reread) them in chronological order 

 

I still like 'em and reread every year or so. :)

 

Wow.... I didn't know other people (much less other adults!) loved this series. No one I know has ever heard of it, but Tamora Pierce is, without a doubt, my favourite author ever. I very rarely read fiction anymore because I've never found any I truly like, but I re-read her books every few years. 

 

To the OP, I think Song of the Lioness quartet needs to be first because Alanna features in other books, but outside of that any set can come in any order. 

 

If I could hijack this thread a little.... I have never found an adult fiction author I liked. I tried and tried, but either they were full of needless sex scenes (I don't object to the sort of scenes SotL had though), or had pathetic characters or were too political or too needless-drama-filled or too focused on magical stuff (all things which existed in SotL, but, they were secondary to the characters. Many books seem to make these themes, not the characters, the leading momentum of the book in a way), or just plain badly written, which seems to be an issue these days... I've begun to think I'll never graduate from young adult fiction lol. I've found a number of books which are ok, that I'll read, but they're not page turners and it took effort to finish them, and I have no motivation to find other books by the same authors. Does anyone want to recommend a book/author for someone desperate to begin reading again, but who has read, and not really enjoyed, any fiction in adulthood except Tamora Pierce? It doesn't have to be fantasy by any means, just well written with meaningful, complex characters and not too heavy on the sex scenes. 

Edited December 9, 2015 by abba12

[ocelotmom]

But I'd probably start with the Alanna series.

Then the Protector of the Small.  (Having never read the Immortals I do not know where they fit)

Then Trickster since it is about Alanna's daughter.

 

I found a chronology, though it's way too cluttered to follow easily. Protector of the Small and The Immortals (which I was calling Wild Magic) take place during roughly the same timeframe, with the events in the Trickster series happening a few years later.

[Tanaqui]

Abba12, you've summed up why I buy so much YA fantasy and sci-fi. Less $$ per page, and I don't have to be embarrassed reading it on the subway. Honestly, for all the hype on how oversexed those books are, they're really *not*.

[abba12]

Abba12, you've summed up why I buy so much YA fantasy and sci-fi. Less $$ per page, and I don't have to be embarrassed reading it on the subway. Honestly, for all the hype on how oversexed those books are, they're really *not*.

 

There is hype that they're oversexed? I don't know how anyone gets that idea, I think they're very decently and delicately handled, while still being real and engaging to young (and older!) women.

 

I was thinking over why Pierce stands out as different to a lot of the fiction I have tried to read in the past few years.... I mean, to take one of my above criticisms of a lot of books I've tried to read, there is a definite theme of feminism in the SotL, she's dressing up as a boy so she doesn't have to become a lady! But, the story never comes across as being ABOUT that. Alanna exists within a certain world with certain misogynistic attitudes, but that is simply the world and rules the story is set in, and she acts as herself within it. It's not what the story is actually about. I feel like a lot of books I've tried to read make it what the whole story is about, it's a subtle difference, but significant. 

 

And I love, as another poster said, how Pierce creates different strong women, and doesn't reject traditional womanhood itself. There are strong warrior women, but there are also equally strong mothers. Some characters struggle with their womanhood, but others embrace their femininity without being weak or less. Alanna pretends to be a boy, but she doesn't lose her femininity, in fact as a teenager one of the parts that had the biggest impact on me was how she would go to Eleni Cooper's house and dress like a girl and be girly for a day. I never had gender issues but in my adolescence this really resonated with me and my situation, that we don't have to be all or nothing. 

 

And probably no one cares about my personal synopsis lol. Just trying to figure out how to find decent fiction like it!

[Tanaqui]

There is hype that they're oversexed? I don't know how anyone gets that idea, I think they're very decently and delicately handled, while still being real and engaging to young (and older!) women.

 

Well, I meant hype that YA speculative fiction in general is oversexed, but yes, there is Tortall-specific hype. There are people in this world who feel that an adult woman who has three romantic partners in three years - the last of whom she marries - is "bedhopping" and that not showing it onscreen is as bad as showing it explicitly with all the details. (Also, see Daine and Numair hooking up, and so on.)

 

They are entitled to their opinions.

[Rosie_0801]

Tamora Pierce has non-Tortall series too, in case they've passed you by. I'm fond of them too.

[ocelotmom]

Well, I meant hype that YA speculative fiction in general is oversexed, but yes, there is Tortall-specific hype. There are people in this world who feel that an adult woman who has three romantic partners in three years - the last of whom she marries - is "bedhopping" and that not showing it onscreen is as bad as showing it explicitly with all the details. (Also, see Daine and Numair hooking up, and so on.)

 

They are entitled to their opinions.

 

Now I feel the need to clarify my comments.

 

I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with Tamora Pierce's books being my kids' first literary exposure to sex. Her depictions of sexual relationships generally are positive, consensual, and non-coercive (and safe, though it's an apparently foolproof magical contraceptive charm, so not totally realistic). When less-than-healthy behaviors are presented, it's clear that this is the case. 

 

(Daine/Numair age difference aside. I don't think the relationship itself is unhealthy in context - she'd been living as an adult for quite a while before they got romantically involved. But I can see how it could give the wrong idea.) 

 

My literary introduction to sex was descriptions of sexual abuse, I suppose because that's ok to put in books aimed at kids because it's a teaching thing and not something that's likely to make them want to run out and have sex. Back when Twilight was the big thing, it was the most popular book among 3rd graders, both boys and girls, including Breaking Dawn. That's certainly not what I want my kids imprinting on, even if it was within the context of marriage. 

 

I'd just rather wait until puberty hits to get them going on the books with more adult themes, and I recognize that a lot of people on the board are a lot more conservative than I am, and unappreciative if they were recommended as great for kids without warning about sexual content.

Edited December 9, 2015 by ocelotmom

[CelticHaiku]

 

If I could hijack this thread a little.... I have never found an adult fiction author I liked. I tried and tried, but either they were full of needless sex scenes (I don't object to the sort of scenes SotL had though), or had pathetic characters or were too political or too needless-drama-filled or too focused on magical stuff (all things which existed in SotL, but, they were secondary to the characters. Many books seem to make these themes, not the characters, the leading momentum of the book in a way), or just plain badly written, which seems to be an issue these days... I've begun to think I'll never graduate from young adult fiction lol. I've found a number of books which are ok, that I'll read, but they're not page turners and it took effort to finish them, and I have no motivation to find other books by the same authors. Does anyone want to recommend a book/author for someone desperate to begin reading again, but who has read, and not really enjoyed, any fiction in adulthood except Tamora Pierce? It doesn't have to be fantasy by any means, just well written with meaningful, complex characters and not too heavy on the sex scenes. 

 

Try The Green Rider by Kristen Britain

[CelticHaiku]

Considering your daughter's age. I would start with Protector of the Small (no sex - Though all the sex in these series is covered in an old time movie pan away to show curtains sort of way). Then move on to The Imortals. It takes place before Protector of the Small, but again not sex (90% sure). Then Song of the Lioness (my Least favorite). Next the Trickster. The main character is fun but the slavery themes make this a little more intense in my opinion. Lastly Becca Cooper (My Favorite). As mentioned above this one is a little more teen/youth. This story also takes place hundreds of years prior to the others and the world, terms, and customs are just different enough to throw off a young reader who is trying to mesh it all together.   

[CelticHaiku]

I just had a thought about content. You may want to preread the last book in the Protector of the Small books. While nothing is explicitly shown the antagonist is a sort of dark magician who (spoiler) murders children to give life to his war machines and there may be a reference to a rape of some refugees who are captured. I can't get at my books to double check right now. The first books in this series have none of this and are all about the years she spends training to become a knight. They fight off some bandits and defeat some monsters but mostly she is training with a bunch of other pages and then becomes a squire. The last book is after she becomes a knight and is sent to defend a refugee camp during a war. The first books could be read without the last. If you would rather put off this series It could be moved to either before or after the Trickster books. 

If your daughter was 14 or 15 I wouldn't really mention it, but at 11 I thought you should know. 

 

[vonfirmath]

I've found a number of books which are ok, that I'll read, but they're not page turners and it took effort to finish them, and I have no motivation to find other books by the same authors. Does anyone want to recommend a book/author for someone desperate to begin reading again, but who has read, and not really enjoyed, any fiction in adulthood except Tamora Pierce? It doesn't have to be fantasy by any means, just well written with meaningful, complex characters and not too heavy on the sex scenes. 

 

I recommend David Weber's Safehold series.  First book is _Off Armageddon Reef_

[AEC]

Based on the earliest comments and DD's (mostly uninformed) preference, she had decided to do them in chronolical order...which means starting with the first BekaCooper book.

 

It just showed up from the library today.  I figured I'd give it a go and see what she's in for.  I gotta say it's a bit hard to get into.  Part of it is the same struggle I think many have with Tolkien - the world is so rich with so much backstory and it's described to the reader as though they were just as familiar with it as the characters in the book.  You almost have to read through it 2x.  By contrast, Harry Potter is pretty easily accessible because the main character knows nothing, just like the reader, so the reader learns along with the protagonist.  Here you have to pick it up by osmosis.  Challenge is good, but I'd like to ensure she doesn't get turned off before she gives it a legit shot.

 

Are they all this way?

 

I think I'll order the first Alanna book from the library and have her start with that.

 

 

Edited December 15, 2015 by AEC

[Rosie_0801]

I think I'll order the first Alanna book from the library and have her start with that.

 

I think that's a better choice than starting with Beka. :)

[Tanaqui]

No, they're not all that way. I think that by the time she was writing Beka, she assumed the readers were tired of being told all the nitty gritty details anew!

[ocelotmom]

I just had a thought about content. You may want to preread the last book in the Protector of the Small books. While nothing is explicitly shown the antagonist is a sort of dark magician who (spoiler) murders children to give life to his war machines and there may be a reference to a rape of some refugees who are captured. I can't get at my books to double check right now. The first books in this series have none of this and are all about the years she spends training to become a knight. They fight off some bandits and defeat some monsters but mostly she is training with a bunch of other pages and then becomes a squire. The last book is after she becomes a knight and is sent to defend a refugee camp during a war. The first books could be read without the last. If you would rather put off this series It could be moved to either before or after the Trickster books. 

If your daughter was 14 or 15 I wouldn't really mention it, but at 11 I thought you should know. 

 

Hmm. That part apparently didn't register with me, and I read those books from a parent-prereading perspective.

 

But it reflects the overall problem with her books in terms of younger readers - the stories mature with the characters. The earlier books are just fine for younger kids, but then they'll want to read them all.

 

It just showed up from the library today.  I figured I'd give it a go and see what she's in for.  I gotta say it's a bit hard to get into.  Part of it is the same struggle I think many have with Tolkien - the world is so rich with so much backstory and it's described to the reader as though they were just as familiar with it as the characters in the book.  You almost have to read through it 2x.  By contrast, Harry Potter is pretty easily accessible because the main character knows nothing, just like the reader, so the reader learns along with the protagonist.  Here you have to pick it up by osmosis.  Challenge is good, but I'd like to ensure she doesn't get turned off before she gives it a legit shot.

 

Are they all this way?

 

Nononono! There's a reason that no one recommended reading the Beka Cooper series first!

 

 

Everything you mention is a problem with this series in general. While the world itself is familiar, it takes place hundreds of years before the events of the other books, as well as focusing on a totally different subculture. Everyone is a little lost.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Wow.... I didn't know other people (much less other adults!) loved this series. No one I know has ever heard of it, but Tamora Pierce is, without a doubt, my favourite author ever. I very rarely read fiction anymore because I've never found any I truly like, but I re-read her books every few years.

 

To the OP, I think Song of the Lioness quartet needs to be first because Alanna features in other books, but outside of that any set can come in any order.

 

If I could hijack this thread a little.... I have never found an adult fiction author I liked. I tried and tried, but either they were full of needless sex scenes (I don't object to the sort of scenes SotL had though), or had pathetic characters or were too political or too needless-drama-filled or too focused on magical stuff (all things which existed in SotL, but, they were secondary to the characters. Many books seem to make these themes, not the characters, the leading momentum of the book in a way), or just plain badly written, which seems to be an issue these days... I've begun to think I'll never graduate from young adult fiction lol. I've found a number of books which are ok, that I'll read, but they're not page turners and it took effort to finish them, and I have no motivation to find other books by the same authors. Does anyone want to recommend a book/author for someone desperate to begin reading again, but who has read, and not really enjoyed, any fiction in adulthood except Tamora Pierce? It doesn't have to be fantasy by any means, just well written with meaningful, complex characters and not too heavy on the sex scenes.

Our bookclub has read Delicious! By Ruth Reichl, Station Eleven and All the Light We Cannot See. I think they would meet your criteria.

Other page turners this year include The Martian, The Circle, The Shellseekers (older book by Rosemary Pilcher), and The Moonstone (much older book by Wilkie Collins).