AimeeM Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 Manipulating is a strong word. Too strong for this situation, but I couldn't think of an alternative. Yes, I have the teacher resources and utilize them most of the time. An example working with addition/subtraction: As per the day's lab sheet, Nico will place the rods. We'll say that the rod shows the equation 5 + __ = 8. Nico places the 8 rod next to the 5 rod and immediately notices that the 3 rod is missing, so he plugs the number 3 in. The sheet says 8 - __ = 3. Nico places the rods as per the sheet, and knows that the missing number is 5. I don't feel, however, even when we do the extras in the lab sheet annotations, that he's doing much more than plugging because he knows the rods so well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 When I feel that way, I have dd use the abacus. Or, if I don't thinks she needs the manipulatives any more, I'll have her try without them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carriede Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 I'm pretty sure this is the whole point of the rods. He's internalizing number relationships, even if it's all spacial at the moment. He's doing it correctly, not manipulating the system. 19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted November 18, 2015 Author Share Posted November 18, 2015 I do have him work the same with other manipulatives, and he can, so there's that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted November 18, 2015 Author Share Posted November 18, 2015 I'm pretty sure this is the whole point of the rods. He's internalizing number relationships, even if it's all spacial at the moment. He's doing it correctly, not manipulating the system. That makes me feel better. When he's flying through a sheet in a few minutes? Some take a bit longer, but most only take him 5 minutes or so. Do I push for another sheet? The only other math we're doing right now is the flashcard system from CLE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carriede Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 That makes me feel better. When he's flying through a sheet in a few minutes? Some take a bit longer, but most only take him 5 minutes or so. Do I push for another sheet? The only other math we're doing right now is the flashcard system from CLE. Hmmm if it seems too easy, I'd try to jump to a different topic, or look and see if they get harder and skip to that part. But only if he's consistently getting ALL of them correct. Or, you could add a page, but make it from a different section, so it's not just the same thing over and over again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carriede Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 I should say that we no longer use Miquon. DS6 worked through the first book and just a bit in the second. But learning the rods themselves has been invaluable. Whenever we come to a hard spot in MM, we take a break and do the SAME CONCEPT with the rods. 2 days later we go back to MM, and it's as if there were never any issues. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 Math manipulatives are a tool to help children make the step from concrete to abstract. Some children do not need the manipulatives at all and have the abstract thinking to work solely with symbolic numbers. If your son is one of them, I see no benefit in making him go through the motions of using the rods. The ultimate goal of any math program is to get rid of the rods eventually. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikuradesuka Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 My girls hardly used the rods, but ds used them all the time. If they can do the math without them, then great! I usually have my kids do 4-5 pages a day, more if it is really easy. I wanted them to get the practice, but also the nuances of each worksheet. Sometimes a worthwhile mental math skill is unlocked on those easy pages. Sometimes I tell them that I can tell they understand the rest of the c pages or whatever, so let's try to get those done really quick. I'll even do the writing, and make a few comments as we fly through them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BooksandBoys Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 That's how Miquon worked here at that level. Eventually, he internalized the rods and stopped using them (he's in Yellow now and uses other math curricula too. I have to force him to use rods why he needs them - fractions, for example). I'm actually in the camp that thinks that it's better to use manipulatives longer than necessary rather than pushing a kid to stop. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El... Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Dd8 did all six books of Miquon. She used the rods most of the time for the first 3 books, and then only occasionally. She gradually moved away from them. In fact, more than once toward that point I saw her reach toward the rods and then stop to write in the answer - she was visualizing the rods! I have never had to make her memorize or "drill" the basic facts. She seems to grasp them very thoroughly. She usually did two pages per math session, and occasionally up to six pages in a session. I am extremely happy with the outcome for her! She is now cruising through Beast Academy and Singapore. I think using the rods to find every answer at the beginning is a feature, not a bug. :) 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 It sounds to me like he's ready to stop using the rods. But remember - stopping using the rods for this particular type of problem doesn't mean you stop using them altogether. I would have him do a little more. Also, it's okay to skip things you feel have been mastered and try something else. That's one of the cool things about Miquon. Or, if he's on a roll with a thread, follow it into the next lab book. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted November 19, 2015 Author Share Posted November 19, 2015 I don't think he's completely ready to be done with the rods - but I guess y'all are right that he may be headed there. He starts a problem with a rod or two, but doesn't always want to use them to complete the problem. If I put down a 9 rod and tell him that the problem says 9 - ___ = 5, he usually just glances over at the 9 rod, or sometimes the 9 and the 5 rod, and tells me that the 4 rod (or the 4 and the 5 rod) is missing so the problem is 9-4=5. He does still need a rod or two to visualize the initial numbers in a problem. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monica_in_Switzerland Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 That sounds like how rods are used in our house for first grade math! I knew my dd really GOT it when she would pull out any random rod to fill the gap, then get the answer from there. So, for the problem 6 + x = 9, she might pull out the five rod, see it was 2 longer, and say 3 for the answer. She knew is was 3, but was too lazy to dig around for the 3 rod. lol. We still introduce all concepts with rods and I ask her to solve with rods when she gets something wrong so that she can find her own error. They are a great tool! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 One thing to remember about the rods though... they really do come out again and again when you do new concepts. I pulled them out and we did extensive work with them (and base 10 blocks) when we covered long division at the end of fourth/beginning of fifth grade. Ditto more complex fraction concepts around that time. Struggling? Out come the rods again. I have one kid in pre-algebra and one in MEP6 and I'm still not giving them up. I have a feeling there's a small chance they'll come out again. Basically, I doubt he's actually ready to be done done with them. More like, done for a little while. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BooksandBoys Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 I forgot to mention quantity. When we did only Miquon, he did 2-6 pages daily, depending on how easy the concept was. I looked more for time spent on math (15-30 minutes) rather than number of pages. Now, he does 1-2 pages a few times a week because he's doing other programs too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootAnn Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 Unless my Miquon-user was struggling, a page went very quickly. We'd often work on a concept together with rods, then I'd pull out a few sheets I'd selected ahead of time to finish up the math session. One would be on whatever we were working on that day & two would be review from other days' topics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FO4UR Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 This is how Miquon is supposed to work. If you feel it's too easy or not enough, expand in topic, keeping the rods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoo Keeper Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 One thing to remember about the rods though... they really do come out again and again when you do new concepts. I pulled them out and we did extensive work with them (and base 10 blocks) when we covered long division at the end of fourth/beginning of fifth grade. Ditto more complex fraction concepts around that time. Struggling? Out come the rods again. I have one kid in pre-algebra and one in MEP6 and I'm still not giving them up. I have a feeling there's a small chance they'll come out again. Basically, I doubt he's actually ready to be done done with them. More like, done for a little while. ^^ This is how it has played out at my house ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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