Pre algebra vs 7th grade math, for example

[Kristie in Florida]

What is the difference between a text book, Prentice Hall for example, that is seventh or eighth grade math vs a textbook by the same company that is specifically pre-algebra or algebra 1? At first glance they seem to have the same stuff.

 

Thank you.

[ondreeuh]

It does seem odd, doesn't it, to stretch pre-algebra into three years? It's designed to be a 3-year middle-school math sequence for kids who take algebra in 9th grade. Schools that move kids into algebra in 8th grade probably use a straight pre-algebra book instead. I have a student who needs a lot of review to really cement math concepts, so I went with a 3-book sequence. We did books 1 & 2 in 6th and 7th grades, and we are in book 3 right now in 8th grade. After comparing book 3 to the algebra book it looks like just too much overlap. He has finished the first half of the book so we are going to move into algebra, and we can back up and use the 8th grade book to reteach if we need to - but I think the 7th grade book is enough of a prep for most kids.

 

I am using a different program for my youngest (Math in Focus) which has its own 3-book pre-algebra sequence even though it is much more rigorous than typical PS math my older son is doing. I haven't decided if I will have him do all three books or skip one before moving on to algebra. I'd love other opinions.

[Kristie in Florida]

That makes sense. The reason I'm asking is because she is doing pre algebra now in sixth, and I don't want to box her in to higher level math in high school for the required credits if she'd rathe focus on something else. I'm torn because I don't feel comfortable making plans that far in advance.

[BusyMom5]

We are doing a second year of pre-algebra-ish work for 7th grade.  We chose to do this for 2 reasons- the first was to make it more automatic, I Noticed that she had to stop and think about a lot of steps and would get some things confused.  I definitely see more automation this year, which is what we wanted.  The second reason wsa that I didn't want to push Algebra too early- if you do one year of math per year, she's do Al1 in 7th Al 2 in 8th and geometry in 9th.  This seemed like too much, too fast.  There is no race, and I'm not sure how far I will be able to teach it anyway!  There is a 3rd reason- I have a girl and puberty is hard.  I figured an extra year of easier math would make her life a lot easier in an already difficult time.  I'd rather her do more review work than having to learn a bunch of new stuff in math when her brain was already fried by hormones ;) 

[Kristie in Florida]

We are doing a second year of pre-algebra-ish work for 7th grade. We chose to do this for 2 reasons- the first was to make it more automatic, I Noticed that she had to stop and think about a lot of steps and would get some things confused. I definitely see more automation this year, which is what we wanted. The second reason wsa that I didn't want to push Algebra too early- if you do one year of math per year, she's do Al1 in 7th Al 2 in 8th and geometry in 9th. This seemed like too much, too fast. There is no race, and I'm not sure how far I will be able to teach it anyway! There is a 3rd reason- I have a girl and puberty is hard. I figured an extra year of easier math would make her life a lot easier in an already difficult time. I'd rather her do more review work than having to learn a bunch of new stuff in math when her brain was already fried by hormones ;)

Exactly! I just don't want her to get bored.

 

May I ask what you used and am using now?

[ondreeuh]

That makes sense. The reason I'm asking is because she is doing pre algebra now in sixth, and I don't want to box her in to higher level math in high school for the required credits if she'd rathe focus on something else. I'm torn because I don't feel comfortable making plans that far in advance.

 

I actually had the same concern because I did algebra in 7th and geometry in 8th, and I graduated with only the two credits of math I completed in 9th & 10th grade (can we say burnout?). But we homeschool through a correspondence program and my son can get credit for algebra taken in middle school, so it will not force him to take extra math classes if he doesn't want to. If you are independent, you should still be able to give high school credit for algebra taken in MS and count it towards graduation.

[Kristie in Florida]

I actually had the same concern because I did algebra in 7th and geometry in 8th, and I graduated with only the two credits of math I completed in 9th & 10th grade (can we say burnout?). But we homeschool through a correspondence program and my son can get credit for algebra taken in middle school, so it will not force him to take extra math classes if he doesn't want to. If you are independent, you should still be able to give high school credit for algebra taken in MS and count it towards graduation.

Well as I was telling her and my husband earlier today, I won't truly know if she can move on from pre algebra until the end of the year. It is working great now but this is only our seventh week of school. She also read all of the Danica McKeller books last year for fun, and loves to do other math stuff for fun, so she will probably be fine.

 

I just keep wondering if Algebra 1 in seventh grade is too early. Ready or not. I'm so torn.

[City Mouse]

In the public schools my kids have attended, the top math kids do take Algebra I in 7th grade and Geomety in 8 th grade. In the state where I live now, middle school kids do get HS credit for classes as long as the teacher is certified for high school and the curriculum is the same as what would be taught in the high school. All this to say, I donr think algebra I in 7th grade is "too early" as long as the kid can handle it.

In the math textbooks at my DSs school the 8th grade "regular" math book is pre-algebra even though it does not say in on the front, so the 6th graders in pre-algebra use the 8th grade book.

[Kristie in Florida]

So can I get an example of what the high school sequence would be if she did Algebra 1 in seventh? She wants to be a math teacher. This assumes no hiccups.

[wapiti]

So can I get an example of what the high school sequence would be if she did Algebra 1 in seventh? She wants to be a math teacher. This assumes no hiccups.

 

I'm no expert on this, but here's one example:

 

7th - algebra 1

8th - geometry

9th - algebra 2

10th - precalculus

11th - AP calculus, AB or BC

12th - AP calculus BC or multivariable calculus

 

Alternatively, a year of discrete math could fit into that sequence, in addition to, or interrupting, the regular sequence.

 

Start reading threads on the high school board and feel free to ask over there.  If your child wants to be a math teacher, she'll presumably want to major in math in college.  For programs, you might take a look at AoPS to see whether it might interest her.

 

For a real-life example, see Kathy's kids sequences here http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/161440-mit/?do=findComment&comment=1559496

 

FWIW, I have two kids in 7th in B&M school, one is taking algebra 1 and the other is taking geometry.  I have no worries about what they'll take in high school - they'll have to pass high school placement tests first :).  In any event, the high school they will hopefully attend offers calc 3 (multivariable).

 

The nice thing about starting algebra 1 early is that you can take your time if there are any rough spots or if you'd like to use a particularly challenging program that may take longer than typical.

[Kristie in Florida]

I'm no expert on this, but here's one example:

 

7th - algebra 1

8th - geometry

9th - algebra 2

10th - precalculus

11th - AP calculus, AB or BC

12th - AP calculus BC or multivariable calculus

 

Alternatively, a year of discrete math could fit into that sequence, in addition to, or interrupting, the regular sequence.

 

Start reading threads on the high school board and feel free to ask over there. If your child wants to be a math teacher, she'll presumably want to major in math in college. For programs, you might take a look at AoPS to see whether it might interest her.

 

For a real-life example, see Kathy's kids sequences here http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/161440-mit/?do=findComment&comment=1559496

 

FWIW, I have two kids in 7th, one is taking algebra 1 and the other is taking geometry. I have no worries about what they'll take in high school - they'll have to pass high school placement tests first :). In any event, the high school they will hopefully attend offers calc 3 (multivariable).

 

The nice thing about starting algebra 1 early is that you can take your time if there are any rough spots or if you'd like to use a particularly challenging program that may take longer than typical.

Wow. Thanks! I flunked out of pre calculus in twelfth grade so this is all new to me.

 

I like knowing that we have options. Just going to take it one day at a time.

[Arcadia]

So can I get an example of what the high school sequence would be if she did Algebra 1 in seventh?

 

7th - algebra 1

8th - geometry

9th - algebra 2

10th - precalculus

11th - AP calculus BC

12th - AP statistics/dual enrollment at assigned cc

[Momling]

We did two years of middle school math too because there seemed to be no need to start Algebra so young.  We had finished SM 6 and moved on to Galore Park 2 & 3, with a heavy dose of Keys to Algebra and Zacarro and Singapore CWP 5 & 6.  Galore Park 3 had a lot of algebra in it, but I'm glad she had an opportunity to see the trickier topics like factoring polynomials several times and from several perspectives.  Even now, in geometry, I'm having her go through Saxon Algebra 1 as weekly algebra review.  I can't imagine only hitting those topics once!

[regentrude]

So can I get an example of what the high school sequence would be if she did Algebra 1 in seventh? She wants to be a math teacher. This assumes no hiccups.

If she is good at, and interested in math, my advice would be to switch to a math curriculum that challenges such students and goes deeper, instead of rushing through an easier curriculum. Have a look at AoPS.

 

A possible straightforward sequence:

7th Alg 1

8th geometry

9th Alg 2

10th Precalc

11th single variable calc

12th multi variable calc or statistics

 

This is what DD did, using the AoPS texts.

 

Alternatively, you can take the time to cover topics not usually in the high school sequence. There is very little discrete math taught in schools. AoPS has two texts Intro to Counting&Probability and Intro to Number Theory that make a good one year combination.

DS spent a semester on C&P before continuing in the main sequence.

[kiana]

And for the "what if she slows down later" -- I would consider it pretty reasonable to switch to a sequence such as ucsmp later on, which spreads precalculus over 2 years and includes some discrete math topics. So your 9-12 grade might look like "advanced algebra, functions/statistics/trigonometry, precalculus and discrete math, ap statistics" if she decides later that she doesn't want to do much math and save her time in other areas.

[Kristie in Florida]

If she is good at, and interested in math, my advice would be to switch to a math curriculum that challenges such students and goes deeper, instead of rushing through an easier curriculum. Have a look at AoPS.

 

A possible straightforward sequence:

7th Alg 1

8th geometry

9th Alg 2

10th Precalc

11th single variable calc

12th multi variable calc or statistics

 

This is what DD did, using the AoPS texts.

 

Alternatively, you can take the time to cover topics not usually in the high school sequence. There is very little discrete math taught in schools. AoPS has two texts Intro to Counting&Probability and Intro to Number Theory that make a good one year combination.

DS spent a semester on C&P before continuing in the main sequence.

Thank you. I think we will go with AoPS next year and which book will depend on the placement tests.

 

After a few years of Saxon and this year's College of the Redwoods Pre Algebra she was curious about what she calls "a book like in public school," translation: colorful, so I was looking at Prentice Hall. She got very excited when she was looking at a friends Algebra 1 book after dance class. She just looked at the AofPS samples though and thought those were okay.

[Kristie in Florida]

And for the "what if she slows down later" -- I would consider it pretty reasonable to switch to a sequence such as ucsmp later on, which spreads precalculus over 2 years and includes some discrete math topics. So your 9-12 grade might look like "advanced algebra, functions/statistics/trigonometry, precalculus and discrete math, ap statistics" if she decides later that she doesn't want to do much math and save her time in other areas.

I need to print this page out. We are excited about our options.

 

I originally started homeschooling because I wanted it to lead to a better approach to the Great Books than I recieved, and other similar reasons, and I ended up with a very mathy kid who also loves to read. Win win. But like I said up thread I flunked out of Pre Cal in 12th grade so her being drawn to math is very unknown to me. Adventure! I think I will finally understand it later. If not there is always DE.

[chiguirre]

Well as I was telling her and my husband earlier today, I won't truly know if she can move on from pre algebra until the end of the year. It is working great now but this is only our seventh week of school. She also read all of the Danica McKeller books last year for fun, and loves to do other math stuff for fun, so she will probably be fine.

 

I just keep wondering if Algebra 1 in seventh grade is too early. Ready or not. I'm so torn.

You can always give it a try and see how it goes. FWIW, we started algebra in 6th grade because T had finished Singapore PM 6. We tried Discovering Mathematics but we needed something less mom-based. So we did some Saxon Algebra using the Virtual Homeschool Group's at your own pace class. When that got too repetitive, we used some Keys to Algebra. Then, the WTM Academy offered an AOPS based Algebra 1 class for the next year. That sounded perfect so we fooled around with an online algebra class at EdX for the rest of the year.

 

That class

 

https://www.edx.org/course/introduction-algebra-schoolyourself-algebra

 

was an awesome overview of algebra topics in a fun, interactive presentation. I'd highly recommend it as a first pass through algebra over the summer or if you have enough time to take 2 years. If you're doing math at home, you can back up, look for other resources and drop something if it's just too hard. Take advantage of this flexibility. You can get several different levels of Algebra books and mix and match. You can do an easy algebra first, then go back and do a rigorous program. I stole this idea from 8FilltheHeart, and it's been such a good fit for us. She did MathUSee and then Foersters, but Keys or EdX seemed to work too as a first algebra experience.

 

The AOPS class at WTM turned out to be a great fit for T. It's challenging but not over-the-top and the teacher is very good at explaining the concepts and encouraging students to work through the difficult problems until they get them. I'd recommend it if you want to use an online class.

[boscopup]

My oldest is doing Algebra 1 in 6th right now. We're nearing the end of chapter 8 in Jacobs Algebra, and so far, so good. We have multiple options for what to follow this with, and I haven't decided yet which route to go. I'm leaning toward running through AoPS Intro to Algebra next year. He did the Prealgebra book for 4th-5th grades. Our other options include moving on to Geometry or doing the AoPS Counting & Probability/Number Theory books. I'm not concerned about going too far. When I was in school, the most advanced kids (all two of them) went to the local university for calc 3 and differential equations. The regular advanced kids did AP Calculus, learning mostly AB material in class, with the option of doing BC material on our own (which I did). My school also didn't start the regular advanced kids in algebra until 9th, so we did algebra 2/trig as one year before calculus. Now, many schools spread those things out, so that's certainly an option. There are a million ways to do things.