I'm having some major kid problems...

[Sarah CB]

Last year was a rough year for us. We moved, we renovated, and we had a pretty big course load.

 

Dd (6th last year) completed NEM 1, did two semesters of high school Henle Latin (which just about killed her, but she got great marks), competed in the CanSpell regional bee (and got 3rd), and did all of her "regular" school work as well; including one day a week at co-op.

 

She felt like all she did was school, she felt that I didn't take part enough (I was *moving* for goodness sake - but she did have a valid point), and she was very discouraged.

 

I wanted to make this year doable. So first I cut back on activities. She's only doing piano, Taekwon-do, and Italian. No other activities, no online Latin class. She's going back to the beginning of Latin and she's going to take it slow and easy; spending 1/2 hour per day on it.

 

She's doing NEM 2 and is very motivated and excited about math. It's her favourite subject.

 

She's doing Homer B for writing, Harvey's for grammar, prep for the bee for spelling, and The Easy French 1B (finishing it up).

 

She's working through one of the God's Design for Science books for science at the moment.

 

We're also doing TOG 2 unit 2 right now. And we have a bible/memory/geography/science time together out loud.

 

She really wanted to have a "finished" time this year because she felt like last year all she did was work all the time. Well, now we're scheduled to "finish" at 2:15 but today she was finished at 11:30. Last week she had two days when she was done at 12:30. She attributes the early finishes to more motivation and a better attitude... I say she should always have good motivation and a good attitude and maybe we should add a few of the subjects that I was holding back on in the interests of giving her a do-able year. I mean, really, she should work efficiently and effectively *every* day. And, at the grade 7 level, she should be working past noon, right? Obviously I scaled back *too much* this year and now she's basking in the benefits of it.

 

So, do I add in a few things to the schedule? Do I slowly make the TOG assignments more in-depth? Do I find a project for her to do? Her brothers in grades 1 and 3 are working for longer hours than she is!!

 

And did I mention that it really makes me mad that she can turn this on or off? If she woke up on the wrong side of the bed with poor motivation and a bad attitude I'm sure it would still take her all day to complete her work.

 

Sarah

[JennW in SoCal]

What does she like to do with all that free time? If she has areas of interest, if she loves to read or write or garden or has creative projects then I'd say leave her alone. The amount of time spent on school work doesn't reflect on the quality of the education.

 

I also would say that a 12 year old is going to have good days and bad as far as motivation and attitude. Puberty is no walk in the park for them, and while a bad day shouldn't be an easy excuse for not doing any work, it does happen and slows them down. Her motivation is going to wax and wane for a few years.

 

All that being said, when it seems my middle schooler isn't making great use of his down time, I give written assignments that I don't schedule into his day. I simply say that on Friday I want to see an essay or a narration or a summary of research and he has to use his unscheduled non-school time to make that happen. Or sometimes he has to keep a nature journal for a week or write a review of whatever book is reading for hours on end. In other words I add work but don't insist on adding a chunk of structured time to each day, and I don't treat it like a punishment for not being creative or productive.

[Sunshine State Sue]

Oh.My.Gosh.

 

I am sure that I am going to sound very scattered, so please forgive me.

 

You sound so much like me, but your dd is so much more accomplished and motivated than my ds. Henle in 6th grade? I'm impressed.

 

A quote that I heard on this board one time HAUNTS me, "Don't make the reward for work well done be more work." Or something like that.

 

6th grade: Ds is up at 8:30 and finished by 2-3 in general.

 

Ds chipped a bone in his foot 5 weeks ago and has been hobbling around on crutches since then. This means no bike riding, basketball, soccer, PE, etc. Also, no get up, run away, and distract himself during school time.

 

7th grade: Ds is up at 8:30 and finishes by 12:30-1 in general. We've added literature, typing, and another day of logic and history this year.

 

I'm having the same thoughts about adding more schoolwork, partially because he doesn't make great use of his free time (ie. video/computer games). But, the use of his free time is limited by his lack of mobility.

 

Maybe I should just say :iagree: with Jennifer. :D

 

Finally, it does not look to me as if your dd's load is light. And kudos to her for being able to express herself to you and kudos to you for listening and considering her POV.

 

Finally again, I am driven. Dh is more relaxed. I rarely sit and relax. There is always more for me to do, to accomplish. I don't know that this is necessarily a good thing. The tension in my neck tells me that I would be better off not to have to do, do, do all the time.

 

We are human beings, not human doings. I hope this doesn't offend you, I'm reminding myself anyway. :grouphug:

 

Good luck!

[Sarah CB]

What does she like to do with all that free time? If she has areas of interest, if she loves to read or write or garden or has creative projects then I'd say leave her alone. The amount of time spent on school work doesn't reflect on the quality of the education.

 

I also would say that a 12 year old is going to have good days and bad as far as motivation and attitude. Puberty is no walk in the park for them, and while a bad day shouldn't be an easy excuse for not doing any work, it does happen and slows them down. Her motivation is going to wax and wane for a few years.

 

All that being said, when it seems my middle schooler isn't making great use of his down time, I give written assignments that I don't schedule into his day. I simply say that on Friday I want to see an essay or a narration or a summary of research and he has to use his unscheduled non-school time to make that happen. Or sometimes he has to keep a nature journal for a week or write a review of whatever book is reading for hours on end. In other words I add work but don't insist on adding a chunk of structured time to each day, and I don't treat it like a punishment for not being creative or productive.

 

But-but-but... Shouldn't there be some challenge and hard work? Nose to the grindstone? That feeling of satisfaction when you've completed a difficult task?

 

She is usually pretty good about her spare time. She trains for triathlons, plays with her little brothers, reads, and plays piano. She really enjoys Pony Isle on the computer, but I put time limits on that. And, lately, her and her friends have been emailing more often - but that's something she has to ask permission to spend time on.

 

I'm going to wait and see how this plays out. I know that the way we're scheduled, some days are heavier than others, so maybe she'll shift some work around to even things out. Or maybe I could pile some more on :D

[Sarah CB]

Oh.My.Gosh.

 

I am sure that I am going to sound very scattered, so please forgive me.

 

You sound so much like me, but your dd is so much more accomplished and motivated than my ds. Henle in 6th grade? I'm impressed.

 

A quote that I heard on this board one time HAUNTS me, "Don't make the reward for work well done be more work." Or something like that.

 

6th grade: Ds is up at 8:30 and finished by 2-3 in general.

 

Ds chipped a bone in his foot 5 weeks ago and has been hobbling around on crutches since then. This means no bike riding, basketball, soccer, PE, etc. Also, no get up, run away, and distract himself during school time.

 

7th grade: Ds is up at 8:30 and finishes by 12:30-1 in general. We've added literature, typing, and another day of logic and history this year.

 

I'm having the same thoughts about adding more schoolwork, partially because he doesn't make great use of his free time (ie. video/computer games). But, the use of his free time is limited by his lack of mobility.

 

Maybe I should just say :iagree: with Jennifer. :D

 

Finally, it does not look to me as if your dd's load is light. And kudos to her for being able to express herself to you and kudos to you for listening and considering her POV.

 

Finally again, I am driven. Dh is more relaxed. I rarely sit and relax. There is always more for me to do, to accomplish. I don't know that this is necessarily a good thing. The tension in my neck tells me that I would be better off not to have to do, do, do all the time.

 

We are human beings, not human doings. I hope this doesn't offend you, I'm reminding myself anyway. :grouphug:

 

Good luck!

 

Overall, her use of spare time is good. However, her first inclination is always to use the computer. She understands there are limits there.

 

I can't help feeling like she's getting away with something. On the other hand, she's really motivated to do her work and to do a good job. She had nearly everything finished before I even got downstairs this morning (I spend two hours with the younger boys doing violin before we start school).

 

I don't think I can stop myself from upping the TOG assignments. I'm sorry, if I were a better person I'd let her bask in her accomplishment. But, I'm a control freak and so TOG will slowly (and stealthily) ramp up. She knows that we're re-evaluating over Christmas and that TOG will end and our self-designed Canadian perspective of Early Modern Times will begin. That will be a good time to figure out whether I can add in one more subject. It frustrates me because I scaled back so that she could be done at 2:15 - now she's finishing early which means we *would have had time for Logic after all*!!! I wanted to do Logic this year, but I didn't want to kill her.

 

And yes, I'll try to remember that we're human beings - even though I'm sure there's something I'm supposed to be doing right now!

[dirty ethel rackham]

Reading what you wrote about all she does is giving me an anxiety attack. It sounds like she is putting her nose to the grindstone. It also sounds like it was almost ground to the bone last year. If it were my child, I would give her the time to work on hobbies, interests, but put limits on the computer (like no computer time before x time.) Children can amaze us with their creativity if they are given the time, space, and boredom to act on it.

[chiguirre]

She attributes the early finishes to more motivation and a better attitude... I say she should always have good motivation and a good attitude ....

Sarah

 

I wish I always had good motivation and a good attitude!

 

Alas, I'm sometimes unmotivated and grumpy and I have to underschedule a bit so that I can keep up on those days too. Just something to consider when you set your schedule.

[Carol in Cal.]

And she sounds like she has a full load. If she is doing well at all of that, and you set reasonable limits on computer time, I would let her be.

 

I would give her one or two big writing assignments that span a long time--maybe 2 months--to research and work on. That way she will start to get accostomed to working on projects for weeks.

 

I would also go out of my way to provide enrichment opportunities for her--chances to try hobbies and new experiences, chances to host get togethers, chances to try cooking some foreign food, whatever she is interested in. Maybe she should have some 'electives' that she can choose from.

 

Really, I have 12 year old and would be thrilled with the kind of dedication and results that your DD is having. One of the great things about homeschooling is the chance it gives kids to cut to the chase and get their work done, as quickly as possible, and have some time to themselves.

[Sarah CB]

And she sounds like she has a full load. If she is doing well at all of that, and you set reasonable limits on computer time, I would let her be.

 

I would give her one or two big writing assignments that span a long time--maybe 2 months--to research and work on. That way she will start to get accostomed to working on projects for weeks.

 

I would also go out of my way to provide enrichment opportunities for her--chances to try hobbies and new experiences, chances to host get togethers, chances to try cooking some foreign food, whatever she is interested in. Maybe she should have some 'electives' that she can choose from.

 

Really, I have 12 year old and would be thrilled with the kind of dedication and results that your DD is having. One of the great things about homeschooling is the chance it gives kids to cut to the chase and get their work done, as quickly as possible, and have some time to themselves.

 

The writing assignment idea is good. I think it would be great for her to learn how to organize her work over a long period of time.

 

This kid is the queen of organizing "enrichment opportunities". That's part of why we were so busy last year. She did a sewing course, homeschool PE, and swimming on top of everything else and it was an insanely busy spring. I've said we're not doing anything else until Christmas - any other organized activity, anyway.

 

However, for the last couple of weeks she's been planning a "homeschool youth social night". She wants to hold them once a month and is planning things like paint ball, board game night, wii night, etc. She organized a homeschool pool party in August. The entire triathlon thing (including finding ways to raise $800 for a new bike last year) was also of her own volition. It's wonderful - but it makes me tired.

 

Lately she's been experimenting with computer art. She loves to bake (she made four batches of oatmeal chocolate chip cookies on Thursday and then froze a bunch of them) and she enjoys making her own creations in the kitchen.

 

And I *know* it's all valuable - really, I do. But we had almost the entire summer off (we usually work through most of it) and she's taking 9 days off to go to Disneyland at the end of September, and we only do 6 weeks on and then have an entire week off anyway and... It just seems like when it's go-time it should be go-time and that lunch time seems awfully early to be finished one's work.

 

So maybe I don't have kid problems - maybe I have me problems ;)

 

I'll leave things mostly alone until Christmas and then see where we're at.

 

And even though I really, really want to schedule in logic (now that we have time!), I won't.

 

And I know that last year was rough (yes, her nose was nearly ground off...) but I still think I may have *over* compensated. Cutting down on school work, dropping the online Latin AND scaling back on outside activities has made for a much lighter schedule than I was hoping for.

[Sunshine State Sue]

we *would have had time for Logic after all*!!!

 

And even though I really, really want to schedule in logic (now that we have time!), I won't.

 

I forgot about logic. It seems like adding logic 1x per week wouldn't hurt. I give you my permission, if you like ;)

 

What was I saying about being driven? :auto:

[katilac]

I would change nothing and ramp up nothing for this semester, for several reasons;

 

First, as Sue quoted: "Don't make the reward for work well done be more work." If your dd can 'turn it on and off' - - and honestly, can't we all? - - won't she certainly turn it off if being 'on' most the time translates into additional, unwelcomed work?

 

Second, if you agreed to this workload for this semester, I think that the potential damage done (to her attitude, to your relationship) outweighs any potential benefit to making any changes.

 

On a practical note, the school year has barely begun. Many of her subjects are likely still in the review period (math, grammar), so she may not be finishing this quickly for long. Also, with such a stressful year last year, she may simply NEED a more relaxed schedule for a time.

 

Last, but most important, your dd sounds like a neat kid who is accomplishing a lot. It sounds like she is studying all the normal subjects in school, along with two languages, an instrument, and multiple sports. She has interesting, productive hobbies, and a seemingly good attitude toward her family (she speaks openly to you, she plays with her little brothers). It's okay if she chooses not to be the highest achiever on the block for a few months. Limit her screen time and don't worry about it.

 

Do you know what really impresses me about her? The fact that she was so straightforward and articulate about things. She told you that the workload and stress of the last year made her feel discouraged and alone, she told you what she thought she needed to make this year better, and she had a reasonable and non-defensive explanation when you asked her about finishing so early. That's an amazing and valuable talent in a 12-year-old!

 

Next time she finishes before noon, just smile and say, "You rock!

Wanna bake some cookies?" :D

[Sarah CB]

I may have to move my evening glass of wine to lunchtime in order to chill enough but it's always 5pm somewhere, right? ;)

 

Thanks, Sue, for the permission to begin logic. What I might do is take the Fallacy Detective along in the car with us on Thursdays. Our Thursday is a little nuts and requires us to be out of the house nearly all day. I have a few "carschooling" ideas so that we can make good use of our time and finishing the Fallacy Detective as a read-aloud was one of them.

 

Katilac - I tried to rep you but apparently I have to spread some around first. I take your point and I'm going to leave this semester alone and re-evaluate with dd at Christmas. I do appreciate the fact that she talks with me - even if she doesn't agree with everything I think.

[JennW in SoCal]

I may have to move my evening glass of wine to lunchtime in order to chill enough but it's always 5pm somewhere, right? ;)

 

 

 

Now that's the spirit!

 

Fallacy Detective is so pleasant to read that it is perfect to take along on those crazy car days. Another way to make those days feel more worthwhile is to have a book on tape in the car -- some great book that y'all might otherwise not get to until high school -- Dickens, Twain, Verne or Holmes -- not the author but the detective!

[MicheleinMN]

Please don't punish her with more work for working hard and working well! Next semester/next year ramp it up, and let her know ahead of time that it will get harder, but don't overload her.

 

Easy for me to say....

 

Michele

[Haiku]

Well, now we're scheduled to "finish" at 2:15 but today she was finished at 11:30. Last week she had two days when she was done at 12:30. She attributes the early finishes to more motivation and a better attitude... I say she should always have good motivation and a good attitude and maybe we should add a few of the subjects that I was holding back on in the interests of giving her a do-able year. I mean, really, she should work efficiently and effectively *every* day.

 

No on can work efficiently and effectively every day.

 

I think you're being too hard on your daughter. You admitted that last year her load was too heavy, there were too many changes, and you weren't available enough to help her. Yet, according to you, she persevered and accomplished what she needed to. If that doesn't show a good attitude and motivation, I don't know what would.

 

She's a year older now. Her workload is lighter. Just the feeling of having a manageable workload can really motivate a person. It doesn't mean she was not motivated last year. It doesn't mean she had a bad attitude last year. This year's expectations seem more reasonable and she's a year more mature. Slapping more work on her as punishment for being more efficient and mature seems counter-productive.

 

I don't think you're having kid problems at all. I think your expectations are too high. It seems very harsh to accuse your daughter of somehow not having a good attitude (last year, when she was [understandably] struggling?) simply because she's doing well this year with a reasonable load.

 

If you really feel the need to pile more on her, at least ease into it slowly. Telling your daughter what she needs to accomplish by a certain time and then punishing her for being quicker at it with extra work certainly will not contribute to a good attitude or more motivation.

 

Tara

[Haiku]

I read the rest of the thread and I wanted to add this: I have a 14 year old with special needs and I would give anything to get half of what you're getting from your daughter. Don't get me wrong, my daughter is fabulous in her own way, but I doubt she will ever have the ability to do the things your daughter is doing. Please don't make the mistake of thinking that the most important thing about her is how much schoolwork she does. If she didn't do any schoolwork but just continued on with all the other things she's involved in, she would still have a fantastic education. Don't squash your daughter's and joy by punishing her for being energetic and productive.

 

Tara

[Meliss]

She is usually pretty good about her spare time. She trains for triathlons, plays with her little brothers, reads, and plays piano.

 

I have a different perspective on what you said about her "spare time." I count my kids' instrument practice as part of school. It requires a lot of discipline and can be quite tedious at times. The training for a triathlon (She is an amazing 12 year old!) also requires a lot of discipline. Congrats on having such a self-motivated, self-disciplined child! Athletic training is hard work, and I wouldn't compare it to playing on the computer. Also, what is she reading? If it is not just fluff, I'd definitely count it as school time.