A question about learning disabilities

[snickerplum]

Is it possible for a child to have dyslexia, dyscalculia, and dysgraphia? Obviously we need an evaluation. I did some research last night and honestly, all three decently describe our second dd. Sigh. We need to get this figured out. We're new in our area, and I don't even know who to go to for an evaluation. I read somewhere to start with your primary care Dr and ask for a referral to a neurologist? Somewhere else I read about Brain Balance Centers? This is all new to me. I mean, if I can, I'd prefer to work with her at home instead of sending her somewhere for tutoring. I definitely want to avoid public schools. What can I do?

I did read about some math curriculums that are beneficial for the dyscalculia... perhaps a good place to start after a diagnosis.

[ssavings]

Hard to tease them apart without an evaluation, because there is so much overlap. 

My second DD (6 years old) has only dyslexia, but it impacts her writing and math also... So, yeah, an evaluation to tease apart what is actually going on is a good place to start.

If your insurance or your neuropsych requires a referral, yeah, I'd start at the primary care doctor. 
 

[ssavings]

Hard to tease them apart without an evaluation, because there is so much overlap. 

My second DD (6 years old) has only dyslexia, but it impacts her writing and math also... So, yeah, an evaluation to tease apart what is actually going on is a good place to start.

If your insurance or your neuropsych requires a referral, yeah, I'd start at the primary care doctor. 
 

[Julie of KY]

Sure it's possible to have all three. Dyslexia often goes with dysgraphia and/or dyscalculia.

 

Need testing to figure it all out.

 

[EKS]

My son is diagnosed with all three, but the dyscalculia and dysgraphia are actually manifestations of his dyslexia.

[snickerplum]

Kinsa, that's what I was wondering about the center.

I need to figure out how to choose a new pediatrician and get the ball rolling. We've already met our deductible for this year, so that's a positive, right? :-)

[PeterPan]

Hi Snickerplum, I found a thread you made about this a year ago  http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/521893-when-do-you-become-concerned/?p=5795037

 

Have you made any moves since then?  Have some things been working?  I know this is hard.  Posting on LC can be traumatic, but you made that first step.  Calling a psych to get evals is hard (and receiving the results even harder), but you can do it!  No, you don't need fancy therapy centers right now.  Some tutors do testing, but with what you've got going on you actually need a psychological eval.  You call the pediatrician and get them to do a written referral if you need that for insurance purposes.  If you don't need that for insurance purposes, you can call up any psychologist and just schedule.

 

There are clinical psychologists, neuropsychologists, ed psychologists.  It might seem confusing, but really a good place to start is asking around.  Asking your ped is good, asking your local friends...  Don't look only at differences in price, because the price is actually an indication of how many hours they spend testing.  You can ask the psychs how many hours they spend testing and what types of tests they might run.  So, for instance, a clinical psych might do 2 hours of testing, and a neuropsych could do 6-10.  See what you have access to, what you can afford, who has a good reputation.

 

Yes, absolutely you can have all three learning disabilities!!  My ds does.  I used to say though that he was either ID (intellectually disabled, low IQ) or a genius, that I couldn't tell, lol.  That's why you need more help than most tutoring and therapy places can provide, because you really need full testing.  Even IQ testing isn't about the number and saying your child is or isn't smart or whatever.  It has lots of breakdowns and subtests so they can find specific things you can work on and compare predicted ability and achievement.  

 

Whatever is going on, good psych evals can help you sort it out.  I'm sorry it's hard to make that call.  If you need more support, remember we also have LC.  Were you reading those threads and feeling overwhelmed?  It's ok to start your own.  I know when I first started going to LC I thought it was like stamping this big thing on my forehead, like everyone knew something was WRONG about my kids and I was admitting it.  I don't know if others feel like that, but for me it was hard.  Now I know it's the friendliest, most welcoming section of the boards, where you can get a cheer for your dc finally doing something that everybody else's kids just do easily and naturally, where people care when you're burnt out and confused.  

 

If you can't afford evals, usually you'll be able to get them through the public school.  The quality can vary, and sometimes the ps gets the results very, very wrong.  Sometimes though they're pretty decent.  If finances are what's holding it up, it would be a way to move forward.  At this point ANY information would be a start. If they run a WISC and CTOPP and a speech eval to check for language processing issues and screen for APD, you're going to be ahead of where you were.

[PeterPan]

Kinsa, that's what I was wondering about the center.

I need to figure out how to choose a new pediatrician and get the ball rolling. We've already met our deductible for this year, so that's a positive, right? :-)

If you've met your deductible, get this moving!!  LOL  What will your insurance cover?  You could call and find that out.  Will they cover only for certain diagnoses but not others?  Do you need pre-approval?  Not all places require pre-approval.  So that would be great to find out what your options are for evals with your insurance.  Then, personally, I'd be burning rubber!  If they'll cover neuropsych testing, cool.  If not, ed psych, psych, whatever you can get.  There will be waiting lists.  

 

And maybe don't be too perfectionist about the ped if you need a referral, kwim?  Like maybe start with a ped (if you need the referral) and then change peds if you don't like him, kwim?  

 

Crazy, but a good way to find a ped is to go to the pool and ask around.  :)

[Heathermomster]

Yes, you can have all three SLDs and test gifted.

[OneStepAtATime]

Absolutely you can have all three... and also be gifted.  And yes you need evaluations through a neuropsychologist.  Do it soon.  Getting in can take months, even a year.  Start the ball rolling as others have said.  The sooner you have answers and a plan, the better off your child will be for getting those things implemented.  It can become a LOT harder once they get to the reluctant pre-teen years, plus you will be dealing with hitting Middle School level material.  You want to tackle this now.

 

Hugs and good luck.  

[wapiti]

Of course a person can have all three plus be 2e.  While obviously the symptoms overlap, I think less about categories overlapping and more about the big picture - the root cause(s) are connected.

 

While you're waiting for your eval appointment, don't forget to rule out developmental vision issues with a covd in the meantime.  It is not unusual for any sensory/motor stuff to also affect ocular motor action.

[snickerplum]

Thank you all for this advice! It is a hard idea to begin processing. Aren't our children supposed to be "perfect"? Not that I'm embarrassed or disappointed in imperfections - I want to be able to teach my children in the ways they learn best. I'm thankful, though, for homeschooling and the fact that no one will be labeled like at public school.

My MIL is a psychology professor, so I called her to get her advice. Between her and this forum, I'm looking at things quite positively right now. :-) I'm not thinking this will be easy by any means, but having a plan to follow is better than shooting in the dark!

[OneStepAtATime]

Read The Dyslexic Advantage by Brock and Fernette Eide and The Mislabeled Child by the same authors.  Might help your perspective even more.

 

Also, How to Homeschool Your Struggling Learner by Kathy Kuhl might be useful...

[PeterPan]

Oh what a hoot.  You're so close to the answers (with a Grandma being a psychology professor!) and you haven't gotten there.  Well make the call.   :)

 

Here's a book someone suggested to me.  Get Your Joy Back: Banishing Resentment and Reclaiming Confidence in Your Special Needs Family  I haven't read it yet, but the title and intro info are thought provoking.  You're going to have a lot of feelings with this, and that's normal.  Sometimes you have to get them out there and validate them before you can move on to what to DO with them.  There ARE ways people get through this and good outcomes and happiness.  

 

Just take the plunge.  It will be ok.   :grouphug: 

 

Fwiw, my sig really doesn't say much about my ds' diagnoses.  I've had to hit this wall multiple times with him, each time he was diagnosed with a new layer of things.  (Apraxia at age 2, low tone at age 4, social delay and ADHD and 1 SLD at newly 6, then the ASD and the other 2 SLDs added 6 months later.)   In fact, at this point it seems insurmountable and lays me flat.  (Adding: Flat is a good position to pray from.)

 

There are a lot of women on LC who've been through this process, and the GRIEF and the gut-wrenching and the resentment.  It's why I only hang on LC for the most part anymore.  I'm done with the comparison game and being made to feel (by my own insecurities, not by anything explicit anyone did/said) that I'm not good enough, that I'm not doing a good enough job, that my dc isn't going to be ok or that I'm MISSING OUT because my dc doesn't do all the things their whizbang kid does.  

 

I think you do come to a place where you embrace the new journey, grieve the one you *thought* you were going to be on, and then *reframe* it in your mind till you realize you just have a new journey, a different journey.  There's that poem about Welcome to Holland, and that can be very comforting too.  That's how I try to think of it mentally, because that's the only way.  Otherwise it's just shattering.

 

 

[PeterPan]

Read The Dyslexic Advantage by Brock and Fernette Eide and The Mislabeled Child by the same authors.  Might help your perspective even more.

 

Also, How to Homeschool Your Struggling Learner by Kathy Kuhl might be useful...

Kathy Kuhl, rah rah, yes, yes!!!   :hurray:    :hurray:  She was my first big encouragement at a convention when I thought I was REALLY lower than a snake's belly with these problems.  (Ironically, a year later I had 5 more labels than at that convention, and at that time I thought I was discouraged.   :lol:  )  

 

And you know what did it?  She starts off this session and she begins testifying (I'm not apostolic, but I really like that term for this), and she says "XYZ didn't happen, and it's OK!"  And then "And you know what, he never learned to MNOP, and it's OK!!"  And she kept going on with this, this whole list of all the things that DIDN'T TURN OUT LIKE SHE THOUGHT, and then she could say of a truth her child is grown, he's HAPPY, and IT'S OK.  

 

:svengo: 

 

I'm so b&w, that hadn't occurred to me.  It was like, if I don't get x done, if she doesn't have x scores, if he can't do such and such, it's OVER, I've failed, they'll be ruined forever.  And here she was saying no matter WHAT happens, whether he learns to read or not, whether he has a low IQ or not, whether you accomplish all your goals or not, it's OK.  

 

And I really needed to hear that.  I really needed to have that permission not to be what I thought I had to be and not to press my kid to become something he/she isn't destined to become, that whatever they're meant to become is OK.

[Rosie_0801]

Unless things are different where you are, a neuropsych isn't going to give you any clues on what to DO about any of these, uh, quirks.

[PeterPan]

Unless things are different where you are, a neuropsych isn't going to give you any clues on what to DO about any of these, uh, quirks.

What do you mean?  Our np had pages and pages and pages of recommendations.  I got 6-8 pages (I forget), but I've talked with people who got 20 and 30 pages, so many suggestions they couldn't even get through all them.  Our neuropsych did extremely extensive testing that gave me data on discrepancies so I could hone in on problems.  Some of it, like the CELF5, it took me almost a year even to figure out what it meant, lol.  Now this psych was sort of a dork, not really answering questions, blowing me off, being too rushed, not validating.  Some psychs are better than others.  

 

In general, a psych can be worth something to YOU as the parent, when they take the time to validate your efforts, affirm, and build you up.  Psych #1 for ds I don't even have kind words for.  He said I was the problem, said parents shouldn't teach their dyslexics, and all sorts of other stupidity.  Fine, whatever, but it would cost me $10K a year to get private tutoring, no can do.  No polite words about him.  But dd's psych, on the other hand, was just cathartic, the ultimate listener.  I vented so many years of ugliness onto that man, and he just listened, like some kind of sin eater or psychological priest.  Then, as I went through my pages of questions (you know me, had to be pages, lol), his answers were always AFFIRMING.  THAT dude was seriously worth something, not for the brilliance of his reports but because he made me more confident on how to proceed.

 

They're all flawed, that's for sure.  These issues are just wicked complex sometimes.

[Hunter]

I had a late bloomer. He bloomed LATE, but he bloomed BIG. God knows what he would have been diagnosed with if he hadn't had a September birthday and entered school almost a full year later than the average child. And it was the early 90's before there was high stakes testing; his grade was the last year not to need to pass tests to graduate. And I was clueless and unimpressed by the new more rigorous standards being put in place after my own 1980s Back-to-basics type schooling.

 

He was in a variety of pubic school and charter school options until the end of 7th grade, and "behind" for K-2. He caught up in 3rd. And started passing the other children in 4th. He came home and skipped 8th grade, and started a GENERAL high school correspondence course, and to be truthful was working out on the docks far more than he was schooling. His dad was the town bully and we were left alone to break the laws.

 

At 16 he started putting himself through the local junior college, graduated a couple months after his 19th birthday and took off for Las Vegas, totally financially independent. 

 

There was NOTHING wrong with that kid, other than many American kids are NOT ready for the curriculum that is inflicted upon them. I don't know WHY they are not as ready as some foreign children and don't care. At all. Chinese kids are all nearsighted, but we don't demand that they see as well as American kids, and punish and label them if they can't.

 

Many many many kids, American and European, don't read until they are 8, no matter what curriculum is inflicted upon them. There is nothing "wrong", other than they are not any more ready to read, than they are ready to lift 100 pounds.

 

At 3 years old, my ex-husband dragged a log up a hill, while the men laughed at him for not being able to carry it up the hill. Then they mocked him for not being able to lift the log onto the truck. He really thought there was something wrong with him and was ashamed. He had no idea that few 3 year olds could have dragged the log up the hill; he hurt himself doing it. Years later he and a friend were strong enough to lift a car together and carry it out of a parking space. The only difference was TIME.

 

Sometimes the only problem is that the expectations are crazy early.