How would you go about remediating/encouraging/pushing a VERY reluctant/anxious writer?

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

I need some baby steps to follow here, I think. DD12 is a very reluctant writer. She has so much anxiety over putting words on a page that it can take her days to complete even a short assignment. Putting a short time limit on something--even if I tell her I'm not worried about quality, I just want her to get some thoughts onto the paper (well, screen)--nearly always ends with her collapsing on her bed in a fetal position. 

 

The funny thing is that she spends a lot of her time writing creatively, though she won't let ANYONE see her writing. The few things she's done for me have been well written, so I'm not worried about her writing style so much. My main goal is to get her thinking about and organizing her thoughts into expository and other non-fiction kinds of writing and just to get her comfortable putting these thoughts on the page within a reasonable amount of time.

 

She's been this way since we started HSing. She has always hated doing narrations, and it ruined history for her when we connected writing to SOTW. I was so grateful when the WWE books came out, and we managed to get through those, but I was never able to get any kind of writing across the curriculum to happen. I didn't push, because I kind of expected it was something she'd outgrow, especially as she began writing more on her own creatively. However, she hasn't outgrown it, and I think now she's more anxious than ever because I waited so long to push her to write more. 

 

We've done the first 20 lessons of WWS1, but every step of the way was like pulling teeth, tons of drama, dragging every lesson over weeks. I finally gave up on that but now I don't know where I should go from here. I need to get this kid ready to do middle-school level writing! 

 

I would love to hear any thoughts anyone has about where I should go from here. I think we need something written very explicitly and in a very incremental format. Does such a thing exist? I'm very reluctant to tie the writing to any other subject, because then even subjects she enjoys become something she dreads. Ideally, this will be something standalone. 

 

TIA. 

 

 

[hornblower]

You might not like my answer & honestly, if I were doing it again not sure I would it the same but....

I did nothing. First essay my dd wrote was for her college anthropology class & she got 100%. She hasn't got less than 90% since.

She did work through some of Killgallon's Sentence Composing. She was doing short answers to q's in lit & science study guides but that was it.

What she did do lots was talk & learn to develop logical arguments through thinking them through & discussing them. Summer before starting college she read through Homework Helpers Essays & Term Papers (I got the recommendation on this board. of course LOL) 

She worked on grammar. She worked on spelling (she's dyslexic so still works on spelling). But she didn't write any schooly stuff.

 

Only other idea is that the WTM summer conference SWB will be speaking about writing. Maybe her session will help you?

I'll probably sign up for that one as I still have ds here & I'm not sure if I want to do the same with him as dd...
 

[Ellie]

I need some baby steps to follow here, I think. DD12 is a very reluctant writer. She has so much anxiety over putting words on a page that it can take her days to complete even a short assignment. Putting a short time limit on something--even if I tell her I'm not worried about quality, I just want her to get some thoughts onto the paper (well, screen)--nearly always ends with her collapsing on her bed in a fetal position. 

 

The funny thing is that she spends a lot of her time writing creatively, though she won't let ANYONE see her writing. The few things she's done for me have been well written, so I'm not worried about her writing style so much. My main goal is to get her thinking about and organizing her thoughts into expository and other non-fiction kinds of writing and just to get her comfortable putting these thoughts on the page within a reasonable amount of time.

 

She's been this way since we started HSing. She has always hated doing narrations, and it ruined history for her when we connected writing to SOTW. I was so grateful when the WWE books came out, and we managed to get through those, but I was never able to get any kind of writing across the curriculum to happen. I didn't push, because I kind of expected it was something she'd outgrow, especially as she began writing more on her own creatively. However, she hasn't outgrown it, and I think now she's more anxious than ever because I waited so long to push her to write more. 

 

We've done the first 20 lessons of WWS1, but every step of the way was like pulling teeth, tons of drama, dragging every lesson over weeks. I finally gave up on that but now I don't know where I should go from here. I need to get this kid ready to do middle-school level writing! 

 

I would love to hear any thoughts anyone has about where I should go from here. I think we need something written very explicitly and in a very incremental format. Does such a thing exist? I'm very reluctant to tie the writing to any other subject, because then even subjects she enjoys become something she dreads. Ideally, this will be something standalone. 

 

TIA. 

 

Rod and Staff English. There's a boatload of writing, even though most of it doesn't seem like writing. You could call it "stealth writing." :-)

 

Also, you could just be trying too hard. 

 

[Lori D.]

… DD12 is a very reluctant writer. She has so much anxiety over putting words on a page that it can take her days to complete even a short assignment. Putting a short time limit on something--even if I tell her I'm not worried about quality, I just want her to get some thoughts onto the paper (well, screen)--nearly always ends with her collapsing on her bed in a fetal position. 

 

… she spends a lot of her time writing creatively, though she won't let ANYONE see her writing. The few things she's done for me have been well written...

 

… My main goal is to get her thinking about and organizing her thoughts into expository and other non-fiction kinds of writing and just to get her comfortable putting these thoughts on the page within a reasonable amount of time.

 

… She… hated doing narrations, and it ruined history for her...

… WWE … we managed to get through those, but I was never able to get any kind of writing across the curriculum to happen...

 

… as she began writing more on her own creatively… he's more anxious than ever because I waited so long to push her to write more. We've done the first 20 lessons of WWS1, but every step of the way was like pulling teeth, tons of drama, dragging every lesson over weeks...

 

… I need to get this kid ready to do middle-school level writing! 

 

… I think we need something written very explicitly and in a very incremental format...

… I'm very reluctant to tie the writing to any other subject, because then even subjects she enjoys become something she dreads...

… Ideally, this will be something stand-alone.

 

Speaking just from the tidbits you mention here and from not knowing your DD well, so take/leave the following as it fits for your family. :)

 

She sounds like a creative writer, which may mean she's a whole-to-parts thinker. In contrast, very explicit, very incremental writing instruction is parts-to-whole -- the exact opposite of how these students think and write.

 

:grouphug:  I understand the need to make sure your student can do expository writing as well as the narrative / creative writing. But if DD is a whole-to-parts thinker, there's a chance the WWE / WWS type of program is not going to be a good fit. Creative writers are often "whole to parts" thinkers, and forcing them to go parts to whole is just death to them. First, they don't think that way; second, in order to accomplish that kind of writing, they have to come up with the entire piece of writing in their heads first and then just give you the small incremental bite at a time.

 

I'm speaking from a little bit of experience here, as I have been teaching some homeschool co-op classes in Lit & Comp for grades 7-12, and I definitely have some creative writers who do NOT do well with structured writing assignments that require an outline and thesis first, or requiring incremental bites. I'm working on finding ways of structuring the assignments so that they can do chunks of the multi-page research paper or essay at a time, but not in that parts-to-whole method. Still a work in progress. ;)

 

You also mentioned that ideally you would also like a stand-alone program. Perhaps Wordsmith Apprentice, followed by Wordsmith. Both are written to the student. Especially Wordsmith Apprentice involves a lot of creative writing, and teaches what is needed for expository writing, but by allowing a lot of creative input by the student; the format is based on writing through the departments of a newspaper. Wordsmith focuses on basic paragraphs and ultimately on the multi-paragraph essay.

 

Each of those programs would likely take your DD less than 1 year since she's already a solid writer (from how you describe her personal writing). I'd guess you could schedule these at a pace that would take about 1.5 years, or maybe finishing up at the end of next school year, if you start now. Yes, Wordsmith Apprentice is geared for gr. 4-6 -- BUT, I would still suggest starting with it. She will move through it quickly, it will be a real boost in her self-confidence, it will bring back some fun to the writing, and it will give her some foundational tools for approaching expository writing from her whole-to-parts way of thinking; she can then build on that with Wordsmith.

 

Or, another possibility is Jump In, which is also written to the student. While it is set up to take 2 years, that is because they have you intersperse a month of "free writes" from prompts after each unit. Personally, we found the prompts to be lame and too similar to one another; we skipped that portion and went straight to completing the program in 1 year. Jump In reminds me of a more in-depth version of Wordsmith.

 

Wordsmith Apprentice; Wordsmith; Jump In

 

After next year, you could try outsourcing the writing -- Brave Writer has online classes; perhaps at that point DD would be ready for the high school level Expository Essay Class. Or, if not quite ready for that, then what about the Middle School Writing Projects or High School Writing Projects class?

 

Right now, it sounds like you and DD are stuck place in a cycle. Just a thought, but perhaps by taking yourself out of the picture for right now for a year by way of some self-directed writing programs that may be more from the perspective that clicks for DD, it could help relieve the writing melt-downs now. It could also allow DD to take the writing at her own pace, and it could allow her time to regain writing confidence. :) It sounds like she is a naturally good writer, but WWE and WWS are formal, incremental, structured programs that may be like strait jackets to her and are shutting her down entirely. Just a thought! :)

 

And then after getting her confidence back next year, outsourcing the writing will allow you to move out of the role of being associated with the formal stifling writing programs, and allow you to be in the role of her cheerleader and encourager about writing. :)

 

I recommend the Brave Writer classes because they do a lot with creative writing, and even their expository writing keeps in mind the way in which creative writers think / best can hear about expository writing -- which sounds like it could be a good match-up for your creative writer! :)

 

 

BEST of luck in finding what brings back the joy in writing and allows DD to soar with her natural skill! Warmest regards, Lori D.

[MamaChicken]

Listen to the bravewriter faltering ownership podcast.

http://blog.bravewriter.com/2012/07/21/05-faltering-ownership-2/

I was very frustrated that DS11 was suddenly unable to accomplish the simplist writing assignment. The podcast described him perfectly. He had become critical of his own work and was trying to do writing assignments that he wasn't comfortable with. Things started to improve as soon as I was able to sympathize with his new writing self consciousness and remembered to tailor his assignments to his interests and purposes, in his case rockets :). I'm sure we'll hit a brick wall again if I suggest that he write a story from his past, but he's cheerfully researching and writing about orbits, so we're both happy.

[RootAnn]

Take a look at Treasured Conversations. It doesn't have a level on it (although if she gets ahold of your teacher book, she'll see it is skills for 3rd-5th graders). It is VERY incremental. It is not time consuming, but it is amazing. It is broken into three parts. The first part is very grammar heavy, but it might speak to your child's creative writing bent more than anything like WWS ever would.

 

We are finishing up the third section right now - and Karen (our very own 8FilltheHeart) has the kids taking notes from non-fiction (more boy-oriented, IMO) stuff and turning those notes into a paragraph. It is VERY incremental and she encourages parents in the TM to stop the book & keep working on whatever the kid needs skill-wise or skipping forward if your kid already 'gets' how to do something. It might help her to get over her writing phobia. Now, a next step after that? I don't know. Depends on how she feels about writing at the end.

[Farrar]

Strongly seconding a Brave Writer class. And also thinking about the whole to parts learner thing. BW is very whole to parts, WWS is extremely parts to whole. I don't think one is inherently better (okay, I have a bias, but I do think parts to whole can be right for some kids) but I think your request for something that's super incremental may be all wrong. I think you want something that's super holistic but also super supportive and encouraging, at least at this stage. She doesn't actually sound like a reluctant writer to me. She sounds like a real writer, a kid who loves to write. And those are often the kids who feel most emotionally attached to their words.

[fairfarmhand]

Listen to the bravewriter faltering ownership podcast.

http://blog.bravewriter.com/2012/07/21/05-faltering-ownership-2/

I was very frustrated that DS11 was suddenly unable to accomplish the simplist writing assignment. The podcast described him perfectly. He had become critical of his own work and was trying to do writing assignments that he wasn't comfortable with. Things started to improve as soon as I was able to sympathize with his new writing self consciousness and remembered to tailor his assignments to his interests and purposes, in his case rockets :). I'm sure we'll hit a brick wall again if I suggest that he write a story from his past, but he's cheerfully researching and writing about orbits, so we're both happy.

 

I try to take even my more serios writing topics and switch them around for my more creative writers. So we might research types of mythical creatures and compare and contrast them. My daughter wrote her sample business letter to the Dragon Egg Bureau. :)

 

Also, I can't emphasize this enough. My reluctant writers do SO much better typing their papers. They love that they can highlight whole sections and replace the mistake ridden text with a polished version. It was agonizing for my kids to work really hard on a rough draft, only to have to turn around and re-write the whole thing correcting errors, and typing it was just so much easier.

 

Also, I taught my dd that instead of writing out an outline, she just needs to break her paper down into sections and write each section separately. So one section on the Phoenix, one section on the Unicorn, etc. Then at the end we can work at tying all of the sections together into a cohesive paper.

 

So my dd would write one sentence,the topic sentence for each section. (I don't even CALL this part "outlining" I  just call it planning.) We type the five or six sentences into the word processor leaving big gaps to fill in details. Then after we've planned, we fill in the blanks. ("What are four or five things that someone would find interesting about the Phoenix? What are the origins of the Phoenix? In literature, where is the Phoenix mentioned?") We just get the facts down in a sort of list format under the topic sentence. Then we move things around with cut and paste to make it flow better and put it all in a logical order.

 

We do that for each section of the paper. Then and only then do we work on our introductory paragraph. For some reason it is SO much easier to come up with an introductory paragraph whien the bulk of the writing is mostly done. We talked about writing a good "hook" on your paper to engage the reader.

[strawberryjam]

We like "Just Write" from EPS for reluctant writers. It's intended for Kindergarten through Grade 4 though. EPS also has a curriculum for Grade 5-8 called "The Paragraph Book". It's described as being an intervention writing program for students who have not had success with conventional programs thus far.

[deerforest]

Your DD sounds very much like my DD, age 10.5. We've actually have had her evaluated last year, and her results were not too surprising. She's 2e, and we are still trying to pull apart whether the source of her issues is working memory, auditory processing, or ADD inattentive. I mention this because she is also extremely bright, a perfectionist, and very hard on herself. Her conceptual understanding about everything doesn't always match her output. We put a lot of emphasis on improving output in math, and now that those are more in sync, I'm focusing on writing output.

 

We finally got her spelling and grammar skills to a point where she has some confidence. But, it takes so long to just write a paragraph. So. so. long. Last week it took her 30 minutes to write a 7 sentence paragraph, and that was one of her best times! She doesn't like any classical writing approach. Anything that is obviously too simple for her now just fails too. 

 

Here's what I've realized, though. She really knows this stuff; it's her output that is the problem. She does ALL the editing in her head. She lies on the floor, hangs upside down, and just as I'm about to jump out the window, she utters this beautifully crafted complex sentence and then writes it down. I can't get her to jot down ideas or brainstorm, but her work also doesn't need any editing because once it's out there, it's good! But, she freaks out if I'm not sitting in the room watching this all take place. 

 

It's making me absolutely nuts because this isn't scalable. She cannot write essays like this. I've tried so many things, but the Paragraph Book mentioned above helped her a lot. It was really simplistic, though. We used the series last year. I'm taking her through another series from EPS right now--Writing Skills. I'm using book 2 for her which is supposedly grades 7-8 but it's the right pace. It's actually easy through the grammar parts. But, she needs those successes. It's bite-size chunks.

 

For fun she starts dozens of stories, and she doesn't share them with me. Those she does on the computer (but she doesn't want to do her school writing on the computer--I have no idea why!). She has really enjoyed the book "Spilling Ink" as ideas for her creative writing. She told me she was writing an outline for one the other day.  :confused1:  Apparently she really does listen when we talk about these things. Good to know!

 

I haven't yet required writing as part of her work in other subjects. I refuse to hold back her skill development in other subjects because of these issues we're resolving with writing. I also know how she learns, and I know one day she's just going to sit down, write this well-thought out essay and move on. 

 

I tentatively also have her signed up for the Expository Writing Prep class with WTM Academy in the fall. She keeps complaining to me about it, but I think it will help her be more successful.

[jenslp]

My son went through that and we had success with Connect the Thoughts creative writing. It was so different that it seemed to take away his anxiety.

[FO4UR]

For one of my dc, he's dyslexic and the spelling is the main issue. He can give nice oral compositions (narrations), but physically writing them is another story. The biggest help for him is dictation. That, and asking for written narrations where I'm not checking the spellings.  (I've only recently asked him to double-check any proper nouns in the book and copy those from the book for correct spellings.)  I won't push any formal composition on him for a while...until spelling is mostly smooth.

 

 

For another one of my dc, she's a perfectionist and a creative soul. She too will write pages and pages of creative stories, plans for stuff, letters to friends, page-long rants about the injustice of cleaning one's own room, etc...  But, give her an assigned writing project and she melts.  Her spelling/mechanics are fine (for her age), so it's not that.  She just needs to be the best at everything. She also does tons better when I just ask for a written narration rather than a defined assignment. She does 1000x times better if it's her own journal that she's writing these narrations in and not an assignment that she *feels* is graded. (Charlotte Mason's dream student here...)

 

The way I present things for her makes a difference too.  We had some success with on Monday making a list of all the ways a character is _________.  On Tuesday, looking at the list again and writing a sentence that conveys a general idea about that character given the list we made on Monday.  On Wednesday, we add a few more sentences encompassing our list to back up our general idea.  On Thursday, we type it up and spy for typos.  (Calling them typos instead of mistakes or errors is big.)  On Friday, fix any typos, print it out and file it proudly.  Breaking it up, only asking for one small bit per day, helps...but only if she doesn't know that there is a WHOLE coming down the line...if she knows her Monday list will result in a Wednesday paragraph, we've lost the momentum.  That, and only requiring this sort of directed writing once every several weeks. She will mimic this process on her own (in her personal writing) if I don't meddle terribly much.  

 

Another thing I do with her is give "narration prompts" instead of writing assignments.  If I were to move into Green Gables, just like Anne, and you wanted to introduce me to Marilla and Rachel Lind, what would you say?  From that prompt, I will get a good little comparison/contrast paper...but dd's focus will be on the content and not the process so it will be without the angst of "getting things right,"  When she gives this to me, I am not going to correct her work as a comparison/contrast paper.  I'm going to listen for her ideas and the way she crafts her words. But, in the back of my mind, I rest easy knowing that when she's in high school and she's assigned a comp/contrast paper, she will find them easy. 

 

 

As my 3rd child comes up, I will want to see him writing simple narrations for a long while (a year, maybe longer) before I begin directing him in any way.  I think children need to be comfortable writing plain narrations before any guidance in composition can be fruitful. 

 

 

That said, I am a CM mom..I am a whole-to-parts writer myself....I always turned in a junk outline to get the grade (I always had to turn them in first,), wrote the paper in pen, edited as I typed it up, and THEN re-wrote the outline to match my paper.  My real outline never ever matched my first outline. Thankfully, my teachers always encouraged me and sort of rolled their eyes about the first outline that we had to turn in as something that they were required to require.  My kids are all whole-to-parts thinkers too.  Plus, they are 4th and 6th grade. And THAT said, I wasn't writing organized papers until much later...why the early push?  Let them learn to love writing before pushing them to produce organized and artistic writing.