How Realistic Is This? (Non-Traditional Student)

[Hunter's Moon]

I've just graduated with my Associate's Degree in General Studies and will be pursuing my Bachelor's in Jan 2016.

 

The program I am hoping to attend allows non-traditional students to create their own major. For those wondering, it's University of Massachusetts - University without Walls.

 

Essentially, I'll be creating an Evolutionary Anthropology degree, and I'll be adding on classes in Stats and Calculus.

 

Is it realistic for a non-traditional student to want to pursue an advanced degree (Master's or PhD) in such a field? I'm only 21, but I still feel as if not attending a University directly following high school will harm my chances.

 

I have a general idea of what I'd like to do - primatology.

 

I believe there is one Anthropologist on the board (whose name escapes me), but I was hoping others here might have some insight into this field of study and non-traditional students in general.

[mellifera33]

There are lots of graduate students who aren't 22. I started my MS program at 23, and I was one of the youngest students. Most others were late 20s-early 40s. I don't know anything about the BS program you're looking at, but I would want to be sure that you could take enough appropriate courses to start graduate work without too many deficiencies. Have you started to look into grad programs? I would look at admissions requirements and contact a few faculty members to see if your undergraduate coursework will be adequate preparation. 

[The Girls' Mom]

I know nothing about the field you are going into, but 21 isn't old at all for pursuing a Bachelors/Masters.  I think that you even have to be over 25 to really even be considered a non-traditional student.  

[katilac]

21 and halfway to a bachelor's is not a non-traditional student. 

 

Your undergraduate performance as a whole will have the biggest affect on getting into grad school. 

 

The main things you have to worry about being realistic about are whether you can afford it, and how it fits in with family plans: does your dh have a 'portable' job? if not, do they have programs in your geographic area? 

 

And so on. 

[Tsuga]

The average community college student is around 25 - 27.

 

I went to a four year, went back to a two-year, got an AA, went and got a BA, and then ten years later went back to get an MA.

 

I would say that about 20-30% of my class had a path similar to mine.

 

Not only that, other than the fact that they did look for diverse viewpoints, the college could not give a hoot about all that stuff. They care about your motivation and performance.

 

You don't have to worry about being "non-traditional". Worry about your grades and academics.

[elegantlion]

Agreed with the others, your age does not make you non-traditional and it should not be an issue with any field. I would make sure you're considered non-traditional by the school you want to attend. 

 

Just for reference, one of my history professors started his PhD in his 40s. My history class for majors this year had about 20 people. There might be one student under 21, the majority are mid to late 20s, and a few "older" folks like me (over 40). 

 

I would probably look into research opportunities and internships available through your university. I would assume those play a big role in graduate studies for anthropology. (I looked into a few anthropology/archaeology programs before deciding to go the history route). 

 

 

[flyingiguana]

When I went to grad school, the kids who had come directly from college (directly from high school) were looked on as a little unusual.  And young.  Most of the students were a bit older.  Some were a lot older.  (This was in ecology and entomology)

 

There was one woman who'd been working as a doctor for many years.  You can imagine how much that set her "back".

 

When I took anthropology as an undergrad, I recall that my TA was fairly old (40's).  All the TA's sat in the front of the lecture and not one of them was in their lower 20's.

[Hunter's Moon]

Thanks, everyone! I assumed students who took a few gaps in between school were considered non-traditional, not just those over 25. (I took a semester off after my first semester, and then went back, and took amother semester off again before finally going back and finishing my degree.)

[Hunter's Moon]

I'll definitely continue looking around at grad schools in anthropology and their requirements. I'm not sure how many graduate courses are available for undergrad in the program I'm considering, but I'll contact them and find out.

 

I'm thinking ahead to GREs now, as well, as I know a strong score will also help.

 

Thanks again, everyone.

[Corraleno]

Your age is definitely not an issue. However, I think the program might be. It looks like the University without Walls program is an online degree, and it doesn't look like they offer degrees in anything even close to anthropology, let alone primatology. So while they may allow you to "design your own major," I think you may have a hard time finding enough courses to prepare you for grad school in that field. I would also worry a bit about whether an online program will provide enough one-on-one contact with professors to get the kind of recommendation letters you will need to get into a good grad program.

 

I think the first thing you should do is think about what kind of career you want with this degree. The job market in academia is really really tough right now. There are so few tenure track positions available, and far more PhDs looking for jobs than there are jobs, so unless you are the best of the best coming out of a top 10 PhD program, that kind of job is not likely to be an option — and even if you are one of the best of the best, you should be prepared for years of low-paid post-doc work. To give you an idea of what it's like in a related field, I know several people with PhDs in paleontology from tippy-top programs like Berkeley and Columbia, who have made really significant finds and have published tons of research in top journals, who cannot find a permanent job. I'm talking about people who discovered important new dinosaurs and whose research made the cover of Science— they are in their mid-30s and still living on post-docs wherever they can find them. The guy with a PhD from a 2nd tier university can't even get a post-doc and is working in an unrelated job.

 

If you are really interested in teaching and don't mind something like adjunct work at a CC, then I would focus on a general anthro degree. You can specialize in physical anthro (which would cover human evolution and primatology), but for maximum employability you will need to be able to teach general intro anthro courses. That's a lot of schooling though, and a lot of debt, for a low paying job.

 

Here is a link to a jobs listing for primatology. As you can see, they are almost all animal care related jobs. If this is a career interest for you, then I suspect that a BA in zoology, specializing in primates, would be more practical, along with lots of internships and volunteer work.

 

ETA: I just saw that you recently posted about pursuing a degree in public health, and that you are a freelance copywriter. Since primatology isn't something you really HAVE to do (i.e. something you've been passionate about since you were 5 and can't possibly imagine yourself doing anything else and don't care if it means living in a tent and eating ramen till you're 50), then I would definitely go with a more practical degree, and preferably something that does not require a graduate degree, or at least has the option for an online MA. 

[flyingiguana]

On the other hand, I know someone with a degree in anthropology who's making good money in a human resources position.

 

If your goal is to spend a few years doing something you love before you head out into the cold cruel world of the job market, then I wouldn't be too concerned about your marketability in that particular field.  I might, though, be looking to keep my resume beefed up in areas that might make me look like a good hire for general positions that only require a bachelor's.  And have a great story for why you pursued this degree before getting back into the "real" world.  

[flyingiguana]

I also wouldn't be overly concerned about not having an anthro major before going on to grad school.  People switch fields all the time.  Think about what skill set you need for anthro, more than particular classes.  And figure out how you can demonstrate that.  Or acquire it.

 

You may want to start laying the groundwork now -- writing to various grad schools, telling them your background and asking what else they figure you would need to have.  In particular, you might want to write to faculty researchers who are doing things you want to do.

[Corraleno]

On the other hand, I know someone with a degree in anthropology who's making good money in a human resources position.

 

I think it's safe to say that the vast majority of people with degrees in anthropology are making a living in jobs that are not directly related to anthropology — even people with PhDs from top programs. I used to make good money as head of publications for a large nonprofit; the fact that I had published academic work, had worked as an editor on other publications, and had worked in a museum were more relevant than my degree. And I was very lucky to have gotten through grad school with zero debt, thanks to a combination of fellowships, TAships, RAships, and paid internships; many grad students in nonSTEM fields accrue a fair amount of debt, and end up in jobs that do not pay much more for a PhD than a BA.

 

I agree that if someone just wants a degree and doesn't really care whether they are actually employed in that field, then anthro is as good as any other degree. In fact, I'm quite biased in favor of anthro. :)  But the OP is planning to enroll in an online program that doesn't offer an anthro degree, and she's talking about going to grad school, and I thought it was worth mentioning that there are very few jobs where an MA or PhD in anthro is going to be useful. That's a big commitment of time and money for a graduate degree that's really not going to do much more for someone, job-wise, than a BA in English (which her online program does offer) or any of the more practical career-oriented degrees that the program offers.

 

 

 

[Hunter's Moon]

Your age is definitely not an issue. However, I think the program might be. It looks like the University without Walls program is an online degree, and it doesn't look like they offer degrees in anything even close to anthropology, let alone primatology. So while they may allow you to "design your own major," I think you may have a hard time finding enough courses to prepare you for grad school in that field. I would also worry a bit about whether an online program will provide enough one-on-one contact with professors to get the kind of recommendation letters you will need to get into a good grad program.

 

[snip]

 

ETA: I just saw that you recently posted about pursuing a degree in public health, and that you are a freelance copywriter. Since primatology isn't something you really HAVE to do (i.e. something you've been passionate about since you were 5 and can't possibly imagine yourself doing anything else and don't care if it means living in a tent and eating ramen till you're 50), then I would definitely go with a more practical degree, and preferably something that does not require a graduate degree, or at least has the option for an online MA. 

 

Corraleno -- You're exactly who I was hoping would reply, your name just escaped me. 

 

I appreciate the reality check. 

 

While I suppose a Public Health degree could still be a possibility, I realized while looking over several programs that all of the courses that excited me were anthro (history of medicine, infectious disease in the history of our ancestors, etc.). 

 

I do realize that an online degree isn't the best course of action -- unfortunately, for the next few years, it's my reality considering how far we live from a university without transportation (small town, no buses, no car). Perhaps then I should follow your advice and go for a more practical degree. None really speak to me (you'd think I'd be thrilled about an English degree considering my job, but the thought of studying it for a few years makes me cringe). 

 

I appreciate the advice, Corraleno! 

 

 

On the other hand, I know someone with a degree in anthropology who's making good money in a human resources position.

 

If your goal is to spend a few years doing something you love before you head out into the cold cruel world of the job market, then I wouldn't be too concerned about your marketability in that particular field.  I might, though, be looking to keep my resume beefed up in areas that might make me look like a good hire for general positions that only require a bachelor's.  And have a great story for why you pursued this degree before getting back into the "real" world.  

 

I hope to expand my business in the next few years, and getting a degree for the sake of being able to say I have one is one reason I am pursuing one. But also, I enjoy school. I enjoy the challenge, the deadlines, etc. 

 

Due to our EFC, I qualify for max grants and would be able to pursue a Bachelor's with minimal debt, especially since I attended CC for the first two years. 

 

Thanks, flyingiguana. 

[Corraleno]

Corraleno -- You're exactly who I was hoping would reply, your name just escaped me. 

 

I appreciate the reality check. 

 

While I suppose a Public Health degree could still be a possibility, I realized while looking over several programs that all of the courses that excited me were anthro (history of medicine, infectious disease in the history of our ancestors, etc.). 

 

I do realize that an online degree isn't the best course of action -- unfortunately, for the next few years, it's my reality considering how far we live from a university without transportation (small town, no buses, no car). Perhaps then I should follow your advice and go for a more practical degree. None really speak to me (you'd think I'd be thrilled about an English degree considering my job, but the thought of studying it for a few years makes me cringe). 

 

I appreciate the advice, Corraleno! 

 

I hope to expand my business in the next few years, and getting a degree for the sake of being able to say I have one is one reason I am pursuing one. But also, I enjoy school. I enjoy the challenge, the deadlines, etc. 

 

Due to our EFC, I qualify for max grants and would be able to pursue a Bachelor's with minimal debt, especially since I attended CC for the first two years. 

 

 

 

Is there a reason you need to go with the UMass program? If you don't care so much about working in the field, and just want an anthro degree because you would enjoy the courses, I bet you could find an online BA that wouldn't cost much more than UMass.

 

ETA: Here are a few programs that might be worth looking into:

 

Colorado State offers an online BA in anthropology for $397 per semester credit, which is comparable in price to UMass @ $385 per semester credit.

 

Oregon State has an online anthro BA/BS for $271/quarter credit ($1355 per 5 credit course vs $1155/course @UMass)

 

Thomas Edison State College (NJ) has an anthro major, but I'm not sure if all of the classes are online. It's more expensive than UMass if you pay per credit, but they have an option where you pay a flat fee to earn up to 36 credits in a year, which works out to only $240 per semester credit ($720 for a 3 credit semester class). TESC tends to be very generous in terms of accepting outside credits as well as giving credit by exam (CLEP, DANTES, etc.), too.

[Crimson Wife]

 

While I suppose a Public Health degree could still be a possibility, I realized while looking over several programs that all of the courses that excited me were anthro (history of medicine, infectious disease in the history of our ancestors, etc.).

I took classes similar to those as part of my Human Biology minor. Evolutionary Medicine was one of my absolute favorite classes during my 1st undergrad simply because I found the topic fascinating.

 

Human Bio at my alma mater was an interdisciplinary program that incorporated both life science and social science courses. You might want to take a look at the program to get some ideas for your own self-designed major: http://exploredegrees.stanford.edu/schoolofhumanitiesandsciences/humanbiology/

 

I had friends who went into all sorts of careers with a Human Bio major or minor. Medicine, Clinical Psychology, other healthcare professions, healthcare policy, etc. were common choices but others went into environmental careers.

 

I'm starting a 2nd bachelor's in Communicative Disorders next month to prepare for grad school in Speech & Language Pathology. Unlike you, I really *AM* a non-traditional student at this stage of my life, LOL!

[Peach]

I can also address the age factor. I will be 52 in June and will be headed to grad school in another semester or 2. I've been concerned about the age thing, but Thursday night we had our department awards ceremony and I was thrilled! A gentlemen finishing his Ph.D. is several years older than me, and a lad who just completed her masters is in her early 60's - and her thesis is being published as a book next year.  Talk a nice bit of relief :)

[Hunter's Moon]

I took classes similar to those as part of my Human Biology minor. Evolutionary Medicine was one of my absolute favorite classes during my 1st undergrad simply because I found the topic fascinating.

 

Human Bio at my alma mater was an interdisciplinary program that incorporated both life science and social science courses. You might want to take a look at the program to get some ideas for your own self-designed major: http://exploredegrees.stanford.edu/schoolofhumanitiesandsciences/humanbiology/

 

I had friends who went into all sorts of careers with a Human Bio major or minor. Medicine, Clinical Psychology, other healthcare professions, healthcare policy, etc. were common choices but others went into environmental careers.

 

I'm starting a 2nd bachelor's in Communicative Disorders next month to prepare for grad school in Speech & Language Pathology. Unlike you, I really *AM* a non-traditional student at this stage of my life, LOL!

 

 

I can also address the age factor. I will be 52 in June and will be headed to grad school in another semester or 2. I've been concerned about the age thing, but Thursday night we had our department awards ceremony and I was thrilled! A gentlemen finishing his Ph.D. is several years older than me, and a lad who just completed her masters is in her early 60's - and her thesis is being published as a book next year.  Talk a nice bit of relief :)

 

Congratulations to both of you ladies! 

 

I wish you much happiness and success on your paths. 

[Hunter's Moon]

Is there a reason you need to go with the UMass program? If you don't care so much about working in the field, and just want an anthro degree because you would enjoy the courses, I bet you could find an online BA that wouldn't cost much more than UMass.

 

ETA: Here are a few programs that might be worth looking into:

 

Colorado State offers an online BA in anthropology for $397 per semester credit, which is comparable in price to UMass @ $385 per semester credit.

 

Oregon State has an online anthro BA/BS for $271/quarter credit ($1355 per 5 credit course vs $1155/course @UMass)

 

Thomas Edison State College (NJ) has an anthro major, but I'm not sure if all of the classes are online. It's more expensive than UMass if you pay per credit, but they have an option where you pay a flat fee to earn up to 36 credits in a year, which works out to only $240 per semester credit ($720 for a 3 credit semester class). TESC tends to be very generous in terms of accepting outside credits as well as giving credit by exam (CLEP, DANTES, etc.), too.

 

Thanks, Corraleno! 

 

I've begun looking through all online programs again :) 

 

There's a school in my state with a strong History department and an online History BA -- I may be able to take enough Anthro courses for electives to feed my interests. 

[Corraleno]

Stephanie!!! I didn't recognize you with the new username and avatar, and I just realized who you are from the "Memory Lane" thread. Congratulations on getting your AA! I hope that life is treating you well and that you and your husband are happy and healthy.  :grouphug:

 

 

[Hunter's Moon]

Stephanie!!! I didn't recognize you with the new username and avatar, and I just realized who you are from the "Memory Lane" thread. Congratulations on getting your AA! I hope that life is treating you well and that you and your husband are happy and healthy. :grouphug:

Thanks you!

 

It took me longer than expected, but I was finally able to get it :)

[Teachin'Mine]

Stephanie I wasn't sure if it was you.  Congratulations!!!!!!   Awesome accomplishment!

 

:hurray: :party: :hurray: