ASD/CAPD/ college accommodations

[texasmama]

I'm at the beginning of figuring out the college accommodations stuff, but I wanted to give an update.

 

My son was diagnosed with ASD and CAPD recently.  I went about looking for an audiologist to evaluate him for the official CAPD diagnosis.  I spoke yesterday with someone at the university-run speech and hearing clinic.  She said that CAPD does not get one college accommodations and advised that we would be better off approaching the accommodations from the ASD diagnosis.  

 

So I googled up the Office of Disabilities of a large, local university (not the one I called regarding the audiology evaluation), and indeed it appears that he already has the documentation he needs to qualify for accommodations.

 

So I am going to skip the expense and hassle (for both of us) to get the "official" CAPD diagnosis.  Does anyone have experience getting accommodations on the SAT/ACT and in college based on an ASD diagnosis?  Does anyone know what level of documentation is needed for accommodations?  It is an educational diagnostician who gave the official ASD diagnosis.  I don't know if I need a psychologist for SAT/ACT/college accommodations.  I hope not.  We've had enough folks poke and prod him.

[1shortmomto4]

I have no advice re the SAT/ACT - we chose not to go that route for many reasons.  As for the disabilities part - you really need to talk directly with the college disabilities office counselor of the school your son is interested in attending.  My ds has a severe hearing loss and obviously needs many accommodations.  Current DX paperwork needed to be under two years old.  The audiologist wrote an indepth letter that stated all the accommodations he'd need (and some were just possible options which my son then could choose to use or not use as he went along versus having to go back to the audiologist to get another letter).  I'm not convinced that CAPD wouldn't be covered but the problem could be with the "large" university.  One thing I've learned is that large universities do not necessarily accommodate the student.  Yes, they have to do XYZ because of the ADA but they don't do it well and figure you can just go to another school.  My ds has been attending the local CC (excellent option for the area) and now that we are approaching the transfer to the 4 year we are being very selective in size of university and the ease of accommodations.  It is so key.  My ds was recently evaluated for CAPD because we'v felt something else was going on and he does have some of the issues but too hard to dx because of his hearing loss.  Check the college website and see if there are forms directly on the website because this would clearly spell out what is required.  Truly, talk directly with the disabilities office.

[PeterPan]

That's [deleting not very nice expression].  Wow I'm in a blunt mood today.  But seriously, I just talked with a private audiologist yesterday who rattled right off accommodations dd should request *using her ADHD label* on the basis over her very weak SCAN3 scores!  (She barely passed, score of 29, passing is 28, and her issues were all in figure/ground.)  They calculated ear advantage (for her right=REA) and said she should request preferential seating and try to sit with her right ear toward the speaker.

 

So if my dd can get that with just a weakness and a request, then I can't fathom the ASTONISHINGLY USEFUL amount of info and breakdown you'd get with a good audiologist.  Your problem is you got some idiot.  Nobody at the University told me that, because I was dealing with students who didn't KNOW how to translate what they were seeing into an IEP.  You have to go private.  

[PeterPan]

School psych told me yesterday the ACT is cracking down on accommodations.  You can try, but I know someone with more labels than a sticker store and she didn't get the accommodations.  SAT gave the accommodations but the ACT didn't.  The reverse can happen too.  All you can do is try both.  What you *can* do also is try giving both sample tests or old tests, and see if he does dramatically better on one or the other.  If the one is working better for him and that company comes through with accommodations, bam you're there.

 

I think, no matter what, there seems to be a fight process involved (re-applying, more documentation, etc.).  But at least that sample testing which tell you which one is more worth fighting for.  

 

And you know there's always the alternate option of going for a school that does NOT require testing for admission.  They do exist, and some of them are quite good schools.

[texasmama]

Well, my son has an ASD label so the employee's point is that a CAPD label would not provide any more accommodations than the ASD label, only fewer or maybe none.  The public school does not recognize CAPD for accommodations in Texas, she said, and it is often comorbid with other conditions (obviously!) so it is hard to tease out.  She spent some time talking to me, and it actually did make sense.  What I don't want to do is subject my kid to three hours of grueling testing and pay a lot of money to receive a superfluous diagnosis.  I can accommodate him here at home (and have for years, just intuitively) for the auditory processing issues.  He will dual enroll in the CC at 16 so I can call their disabilities office and speak with someone.  

 

I do realize that it can be difficult to get accommodations for the SAT and ACT.  My son's OT has a dd with well-documented dyslexia, and it was absurd the hoops she needed to jump through in order to get accommodations in spite of many years of public school IEPs.  

 

Also, our plan for all of our kids (unless they get amazing SAT scores and huge merit scholarships) is to start at the CC and then transfer, which will render the SAT unnecessary.

 

I don't want to make this more complicated than it is.  I don't have money to burn for something that will not yield a lot of helpful results.  The $1100 I just spent to get these diagnoses and information was helpful, useful, and necessary.  This particular kid now needs $2000 of dental work in the next two months.  We have no dental coverage.  It is all out of pocket.  I am currently not working at all.  You see my issue here.  Decisions must be made regarding allocation of resources.  Teeth come before audiology.

 

I don't mind you being blunt, OhE.  You crack me up. :D  Also, I know you are coming from a place of advocacy for the kids.

[texasmama]

That's [deleting not very nice expression].  Wow I'm in a blunt mood today.  But seriously, I just talked with a private audiologist yesterday who rattled right off accommodations dd should request *using her ADHD label* on the basis over her very weak SCAN3 scores!  (She barely passed, score of 29, passing is 28, and her issues were all in figure/ground.)  They calculated ear advantage (for her right=REA) and said she should request preferential seating and try to sit with her right ear toward the speaker.

 

So if my dd can get that with just a weakness and a request, then I can't fathom the ASTONISHINGLY USEFUL amount of info and breakdown you'd get with a good audiologist.  Your problem is you got some idiot.  Nobody at the University told me that, because I was dealing with students who didn't KNOW how to translate what they were seeing into an IEP.  You have to go private.  

My son does not have ADHD, it is CAPD.  His working memory scores are good.  He has some ADHD characteristics due to EF issues and ASD, but he does not have ADHD.

 

I like information, but I am old and tired, and my brain is full of things.  I have four kids and a dad who needs care and a dh's grandmother whose affairs I am managing.  If I had one child, unlimited funds and a huge amount of mental and emotional bandwidth, I would consider getting more evaluations.  But even so, I would need to consider the affect on my ds, for whom testing is truly grueling.

[8filltheheart]

Texasmomma, Ds's accommodations were not for being classified with Aspergers.  His accommodations were for his comorbid conditions.  He had accommodations for his very low processing speeds and ADHD.  He was given extra time and allowed a private room for tests and guaranteed seating in the front of the room.  Where the Asperger's came into play was having an appointed advocate.  If he didn't understand something and needed to meet with a teacher during office hours, he could request his advocate be present for the conversation to make sure that clear communication existed between the 2 parties.  That, however, cost us a huge extra fee.  The advocate was not a generalized accommodation, but an Asperger's program we paid for separate from university fees.

 

[texasmama]

Thanks, 8.  I don't think he will need an advocate.  He also intermittently qualifies for an anxiety disorder diagnosis, and I know that this will get accommodations at at least one local college because when I was on their adjunct faculty, I had a student who presented with a letter from the Office of Disabilities for accommodations with an anxiety disorder diagnosis.  Having been in the professor side of it, I know that the professors have some leeway regarding factors such as how much time to allow a student in a private room testing situation.  I always allowed the maximum time.

 

My son's largest need for accommodations will be in extra time allotted for tests.  Otherwise, I expect that he will largely be able to function as a typical student. Time will tell regarding this, though.

[8filltheheart]

I meant to add that his psychologist wrote the letter to the office of disabilities with what he determined ds needed for accommodations.

[texasmama]

I meant to add that his psychologist wrote the letter to the office of disabilities with what he determined ds needed for accommodations.

This is part of what I am wondering about.  I have a licensed educational diagnostician with experience in writing letters to colleges for accommodations to assist us, but I wonder if a PhD professional will be needed.  The diagnostician is qualified to test and diagnose, but I need to find out what the colleges require.  I will likely start with the CC since he will be there in a couple of years.

[PeterPan]

Texasmama, this is a total aside, but by transferring through the cc, will that eliminate him from scholarships he would have been eligible for?  Or you don't anticipate scholarships? Or they offer scholarships to transfer students also?  Just curious.

 

And no, I didn't mean your dc has ADHD.  I meant the audiologist was saying use the info *from* the APD testing to make requests that you put under the heading of another disability in the paperwork.

 

Not trying to be nosy, but had you considered meds?  That audiologist was saying some people find their APD test results improve (like into the normal range improve) with adhd meds.  I've talked with some people who did that, so it's not a totally off the wall thing.  Given dd's iffy results, it would be a bonus for her if she did go on meds and caught my attention.

[texasmama]

I don't anticipate scholarships.  He is an average student - hardworking but with average abilities.  Dual enrollment in CC and then continuation with the CC is a good plan for him, with eventual transfer to one of our many local universities (we have small and large, state and private) while probably living at home.  It is not possible to make a concrete plan for years down the road, but that is my best stab at it.  He is not 2E.  He is 1E.  :)  He just works so very hard that he manages to accomplish some pretty good work.  Getting all mama bear here for a minute, he works so hard with his average-ish abilities while working to overcome his various diagnoses that he deserves a million dollars in scholarships - but I can't imagine that he will receive any.  He is the hare and will plod away doing his best because it is the right thing to do.  He has always been this way.  He works twice or three times or four times as hard as others to accomplish the same things.  He's a cool kid that way, and I am as proud of him for that as I am proud of any of my other kids for anything they do.  He has no idea what a fantastic work ethic he has, even though I tell him often.  He just thinks it is the way he should be and everyone should be.

 

Re: meds, I have not considered it because of the lack of ADHD, but I am not against it at all.  I am more pro-ADHD meds than against them, actually, when they are needed.   I will put that in my back pocket and try to remember it when needed.  You will probably have to remind me.  :)

[PeterPan]

Interesting.  Lots of people could stand such good character.   :)

 

 

[texasmama]

Interesting.  Lots of people could stand such good character.   :)

Abso-freakin'-lutely.  

 

It's like that is the huge gift this child received, and it will be enough.  :)  It humbles me to watch him work and persevere.  It always has.

[texasmama]

Remember the good old days when our boys were just kissing the spectrum?  <sigh>

[PeterPan]

Remember the good old days when our boys were just kissing the spectrum?  <sigh>

I'll have to think about that.  I'm not very good with history one, but also I'm not so sure it was as good then not having the right words.  This is allowing me to target better and get us connected with better resources.  

 

I think you just got hit with a lot of labels at once.  Go pamper yourself a bit and recover.  I'm finding I have to take extra stuff (kelp) for my thyroid, that my whole system is just screaming and tired and shutting down. And I don't even have to try, kwim?  Like it's just happening.  I'm not sitting here stewing about it or anything.  And I think you're sorta the same way, where you're such a professional at this (with your background) that people assume you're sorta cool cucumber with it and not hurting or feeling hacked over like some oregonian juniper.  

 

But things happen, the tree fell, and we're gonna be OK.  This is just our new normal.  We got a different cruise ticket, to a new place, new friends, new adventures, and it will be ok.  

[texasmama]

Thank you.  :)  That is it, exactly.

 

 

[Guest]

I can accommodate him here at home (and have for years, just intuitively) for the auditory processing issues.

Can I ask how you accommodate? Did you refer to a resource or...??

 

 

(Sorry to derail your thread!)

[texasmama]

Can I ask how you accommodate? Did you refer to a resource or...??

 

 

(Sorry to derail your thread!)

Not a derail.

 

I learned long ago that I needed slow down my rate of speaking with him, take unnaturally long pauses, and give one instruction at a time.  I repeat explanations and simplify them, not so much in my grammar and word choice but using fewer words when possible.  If I speak at a normal rate and give too much information at once, he becomes overwhelmed and unable to comply.  That is mostly what I have done very intuitively before I even knew he had a diagnosis of APD.

[PeterPan]

Total aside, but if he needs that much modification of speech, he's REALLY gonna need accommodations in college, mercy. Probably even with a vocational college. With foreign teachers, fast speakers, TAs, etc., that could get unmanageable very quickly!  I know you're saying you don't need that eval right now, but maybe put it on your save up $10 a month and get it in the next couple years list?  It would give you specific breakdowns on areas where he's challenged, and you could use that information to make sure his accommodations are targeted.  These places want DATA when they give accommodations, and that would be the data.  

 

Is he doing anything on a computer?  Have you thought about using an FM transmitter (with you) or headphones (with computer)?  I know someone who is using these Sennheiser HD-280 PRO Headphones  and getting amazing improvements.  And are you using technology and doing as much written as possible?  That's one thing the audiologist suggested to dd, that, knowing her relative weakness (not enough to get her diagnosed but definitely there and right on the line), that she try to do classes like a foreign language online (so it would be more written!) rather than in class in person.  That would explain some of the difficulties she has had, sigh.

 

Given that the audiologist also was finding such dramatic shifts/improvements in auditory processing with meds, that's one more tool in my arsenal.  I'm still trying to line up sensory, then Cogmed, THEN meds (if this works out, sigh, big iffff), but it just boggles my mind that meds could help that.

 

Anyways, just helping you find ways to spend your money, hehe.  Happy Thursday.  :)

[texasmama]

I knew you were going to say that, OhE.  ;)

 

Here's the deal:  He does just fine with his online algebra class with Jann in Texas.  Now, she is not a speed talker, and she clearly explains things repeatedly, which evidently most kids that age need.  Also, he has done marvelously well with multiple different outside teachers at co op in science.  He makes A's on everything.  So he compensates well.

 

Also, teen boy equals not going to do anything "weird" like wear weird headphones and such.  Trust me on this one.  ;)  

 

Next year, he will have Jann's Geometry class and a Landry Academy Spanish class online.  He will also have a different co op teacher for Biology.  I will be his co op English teacher.

 

Next year will be an experiment to see how well this works for him.  He knows that things can be changed mid-stream if needed.  I am already flexing our history/literature around the basketball season to avoid overload.

 

And I am not against meds, but he has to buy into this (or any intervention, really) because we have reached that stage of his life.  He is a thoughtful kid who will listen to a well explained reasoning/argument for or against something, but he will flat refuse to wear headphones.  And I'm not convinced he needs them.  Frankly, I may be overcompensating for his audiological processing weaknesses.  But it costs nothing to do so, you know?

 

 

[Tokyomarie]

Have you read the SSD portion of the College Board website yet? I went over all the detail with a fine tooth comb and compared the details to the testing that my son had done. I did the same with the accommodations portion of the ACT website. There are specific tests that are required as part of an evaluation and it depends on what the disability is and what accommodations are requested as to which testing needs to be included. Especially important is that the evaluation report link the relevant data to a requested accommodation. Also important are statements about specific functional limitations due to the disability and how they impact standardized testing. A clear history of the use of accommodations is also important.

 

It seems to be true that both College Board and ACT are indeed scrutinizing requests more thoroughly. However, it's not a given that a student will always get denied and have to appeal. Careful documentation that includes all the test data requested, a solid narrative interpretation of the data and it's relevance for testing situations, and justification for particular accommodations may lead to approval on the first try. Approval on the first time does happen.
 

As for the CAPD angle, more testing that documents the difficulty a student has in the listening task will add to the other data you already have and strengthen your case, if indeed it shows deficits. It may not be needed in order to get the accommodations you want, depending on what you are looking for. Again- specific diagnosis isn't what the testing organizations are looking for. They are looking for specific weaknesses, test data that indicates those weaknesses,  and that those weaknesses impact the student's ability to take a test. Because one person with dyslexia, ADHD, or ASD doesn't necessarily have the same profile of strengths and weaknesses as another with the same diagnosis, a diagnosis alone doesn't tell what the student needs.

 

[texasmama]

Thank you, Marie.  This is helpful information.  I am at the beginning of trying to figure all of this out, and it is a lot to wade through.  I will check out your link.

[texasmama]

This is the relevant portion to my son of the linked information:

 

The student must demonstrate the need for the specific accommodation requested. For example, students requesting extended time should have documentation showing that they have difficulty performing timed tasks, such as testing under timed conditions.

 

The most recent testing documents that he folds under the pressure of a timed test and does not give an accurate representation of his true abilities.

 

I think that the SAT/ACT accommodations may be unnecessary due to our plan to take a CC path, first for dual enrollment and then continuing on post-high school.  I will have him take the PSAT with no accommodations and see how he performs because I can't think of a "downside" to this.  My son is a student with average abilities so he will not perform in a range I would expect would gain him any scholarships or National Merit attention.

[geodob]

With the ACT test, being able to show a history of using the accommodations for academic tests is the deciding factor.

A change was made, because it was found that some students were being coached in how to take a test and get a diagnosis of an LD.

For the sole purpose of getting certain accommodations for important tests.

With extended time being the main one.

But they found that the best way to address this, was to require proof of a history of usage of the accommodations in testing and in the classroom.

Which eliminates most 'fake' LD students, as they don't generally use the accommodations.

 

Though you wrote that you can't see any 'downside' of not having him provided any accommodations for SAT/ACT/PSAT ?

But use of accommodations in these tests, are important as they prove a history of usage.

 

I found a site that explains it for ACT:

http://www.actstudent.org/regist/disab/

[texasmama]

With the ACT test, being able to show a history of using the accommodations for academic tests is the deciding factor.

A change was made, because it was found that some students were being coached in how to take a test and get a diagnosis of an LD.

For the sole purpose of getting certain accommodations for important tests.

With extended time being the main one.

But they found that the best way to address this, was to require proof of a history of usage of the accommodations in testing and in the classroom.

Which eliminates most 'fake' LD students, as they don't generally use the accommodations.

 

Though you wrote that you can't see any 'downside' of not having him provided any accommodations for SAT/ACT/PSAT ?

But use of accommodations in these tests, are important as they prove a history of usage.

 

I found a site that explains it for ACT:

http://www.actstudent.org/regist/disab/

These are very good points.  I was actually speaking just of not providing accommodations for the PSAT only since it is essentially a practice test, but the fact that the ACT looks to a history of previous accommodations is very relevant information and something I need to consider.

[Tiramisu]

What I've seen in that the ACT and College Board are very strict on accommodations and the documentation they require, while colleges and universities vary a lot. When I looked at the state schools' websites, their requirements seemed rather intimidating. For example, with something like ADHD, the state schools here would not accept a letter from a doctor but needed years of documentation, or perhaps some other objective testing.

 

The disabilities offices at small private colleges all seemed very helpful when we were college shopping. After dd enrolled in one, we submitted a report from an audiologist with a dx of CAPD and an np report. The np had picked up on on some fluency issues, specifically motor/visual-motor problems that slowed things up, and her report included the recommendation for extra time even without a dx. She said she would have made a case for DCD if dd was younger and OT more practical. The school dd chose honored the np's recommendations but who knows if a larger public school would have. In our case, though, we really would have got the same accommodations anyway with the CAPD dx. I think disability services personnel realize that CAPD has wide effects.

 

8 made a good point. For the College Board, the dx doesn't matter as much as proving the dx has negative effects on learning. That's why they want full cognitive and achievement testing in addition to an audiology report for CAPD. I suspect many colleges would be fine with just the dx and implement whatever accommodations are generally appropriate, as well as consider any special requests you may have.

 

ASD makes things tricky for CAPD testing. The place we used for the CAPD testing would not test kids with an ASD dx. I think their reasoning was that nearly everyone with ASD has CAPD so no need to test for it.

 

I think many colleges would be accommodating for a student with ASD with or without a CAPD dx. They'd just look at the report and ask the student what their personal difficulties are, what accommodations would be beneficial, and go from there. I'd recommend contacting the disability offices of any school your ds is considering and bringing up these questions.

 

[texasmama]

Thanks for these thoughts, Tiramisu.  Essentially, what the person at the testing center told me is what you noted from your experience.  With ASD, a dx of CAPD is difficult to obtain because of the comorbidity.  I understand the need for more documentation for ADHD because that dx is handed out pretty freely by pediatricians without any testing.  But ASD is not so I think we have it well-established.  Homeschooling has been his accommodation.  Also, he received services from 18 months through age 12 (with a few short breaks).  I have every bit of that documentation.  They can have it all if they want.  I just want the playing field leveled if needed.

[kbutton]

ASD makes things tricky for CAPD testing. The place we used for the CAPD testing would not test kids with an ASD dx. I think their reasoning was that nearly everyone with ASD has CAPD so no need to test for it.

 

I believe that is the way it is here, which strikes me as ridiculous. My ASD son passed SCAN-III with flying colors. My non-ASD kiddo bombed it.

[texasmama]

You know when you have the feeling that you are getting a canned speech based on "how things are done"?  That is the feeling I got when I talked to the person from the testing center when I asked about having my ASD kid tested for CAPD.  So what we have is a professional culture of not testing ASD kids for CAPD.  Okay, got it.  If I thought he really needed the testing, I would pursue it, but frankly, it was a relief to not drag my kid to one more thing.  He has been tested, prodded, poked, made to do so many weird OT activities, had years and years of speech therapy, etc.  I feel sorry for him.  If we can be done, all the better!  

[Mom22ns]

School psych told me yesterday the ACT is cracking down on accommodations.  You can try, but I know someone with more labels than a sticker store and she didn't get the accommodations.  SAT gave the accommodations but the ACT didn't.  The reverse can happen too.  All you can do is try both.  What you *can* do also is try giving both sample tests or old tests, and see if he does dramatically better on one or the other.  If the one is working better for him and that company comes through with accommodations, bam you're there.

 

I think, no matter what, there seems to be a fight process involved (re-applying, more documentation, etc.).  But at least that sample testing which tell you which one is more worth fighting for.  

 

And you know there's always the alternate option of going for a school that does NOT require testing for admission.  They do exist, and some of them are quite good schools.

 

Yep, we were the reverse of OhE. We got what we asked for from the ACT Board, but only part of what we asked for from the College Board. My impression with the ACT Board is that they are all about historical documentation. If you have a diagnosis from preschool age, have used accommodations and can document them all the way through, you are golden. However, current testing and current recommendations without the historical piece gets you nowhere with them.

 

The College Board is much bigger on current documentation. They also want to see low scores. Ds had no scores below average so they said he didn't need accommodations. The fact that his processing speed is 2 standard deviations below his IQ didn't phase them.

 

We worked with the local high school to update testing for accommodations. They have a book with a list of what each college they have worked with requires in paperwork (some require a medical diagnosis, some take just a school eval, etc). The local CC is known for being the most generous and helpful with accommodations and the local (large) state U is also supposed to be quite helpful. They had never had a student with a disability attend the college ds will (it is more academically challenging).  They asked me to update them when I found out the requirements for documentation, I did. The disability services guy accepted our documentation without question, however, we have not met to get an actual plan for accommodations in place. Hopefully it will all go well.