A little frustrated with math

[Forgiven]

I had originally planned to use a combination of Jousting Armadillos and Dolciani with my 6th grader this year. Once we started it was painfully obvious that my DD hated Dolciani, so we decided to only do JA, and have moved into Coconuts and Crocodiles, where my DD is right now. She may finish Coconuts and Crocodiles before the end of the year, but she won't move into the third book of the series, which I was fine with until today.

 

We went to an Open House for Classical Conversation's Challenge A class. They use Saxon 8/7, which I have no desire to use, but as a pre-algebra, I figured they'd be learning the same stuff my DD is currently learning. Unfortunately, that's not the case, and now as I've been searching scope and sequences of AoPS's Pre-A and Saxon 8/7, I realize that there is a lot that the JA/C&C books don't cover, and here I thought the two together was a complete Pre-Algebra. 

 

Now I'm stuck. I have no idea of which direction to go in. Should I have my DD do Pre-A all over again, only using AoPS next year? Should I just continue with Arbor Center's next book (square roots are covered in it, which is one of the things that Saxon and AoPs both cover but JA/C&C do not) and hope it will all turn out all right? Or should I move onto AoPS Algebra, and hope that review of the missing concepts will be sufficient (Does it even review things like square roots and the Pythagorean Theorem (Another thing the Arbor books is missing but Saxon and AoPS both include in Pre-A).

 

I feel horrible right now.

 

Anyone have any advice or experience to share with me?

 

Thanks!

Angie

[crazyforlatin]

I can only tell you what I would do if DD were in this situation. I would not use AOPS Pre-algebra since you've apparently covered the majority of pre-algebra topics. I would rather spend more time in algebra, jumping right in and accessing whether there are pre-algebraic topics that need to be taught, like exponents, square roots, etc. I just know that as we are now in the trenches of AOPS algebra I need at least 2 years with this massive and challenging book.

 

I really like MEP for covering topics in an efficient yet free way. You'll need to go through all three years to look at their topics, but secondary MEP is so much easier to use than primary.

 

Year 7, http://www.cimt.plymouth.ac.uk/projects/mepres/book7/book7.htm

 

Year 8, http://www.cimt.plymouth.ac.uk/projects/mepres/book8/book8.htm

 

Year 9, http://www.cimt.plymouth.ac.uk/projects/mepres/book9/book9.htm

[SparklyUnicorn]

Well which topics are not being covered?  I don't know anything about JA.  We did some of AoPS Pre A and about half of AoPS A1.  My son was just not really crazy about AoPS. 

 

I see no need for you to feel horrible though!

 

 

[MEmama]

What did she use before JA? DS didn't use formal prealgebra at all and wasn't missing anything, so I really wouldnt worry about it. If she hasn't covered certain topics yet, she'll pick them up as she goes along. Definitely don't feel bad, every program has a different scope and sequence. You did her no harm. :)

[Farrar]

I'm curious to see the comparison of scope and sequences. Ds just started JA. I'm fine with the focus being more on the pre in pre-algebra and not on introducing every little thing.

 

I have used most of AoPS's algebra I myself. Concepts like pythagorean theorem are, I think, introduced as if you'll pick them up relatively easily, but are introduced from the ground up without any assumption that you know them already. Really, the only assumption I saw is that you'll understand arithmetic completely.

[Julie of KY]

Before AoPS Prealgebra came out, many of us went directly from elementary math to AoPS Algebra. My son had never done much with square roots, negative numbers etc. If you student picks it up easily then it's possible, but generally I'd recommend teaching it through another sources such as MEP first. The AoPS book starts at the beginning with square roots, but moves very quickly beyond what most books cover. It's tough if you've never seen them before.

 

AoPS teaches Pythagorean theorem in the geometry textbook.

[Forgiven]

There are only two things that I see in the Saxon 8/7 and AoPS PreAlgebra that I was worried about, and they are square roots and the Pythagorean Theorem. AoPS has it at the end of the PreA book. I looked through the Dolciani book we have, and they are at the end of it as well. I guess I freaked out. LOL I do love the Arbor books, as does my DD. I talked with her about it this morning, and she is fine to continue with the Arbor books. The third book is Chuckles the Rocket Dog (or something like that). My DD won't get to it until the fall semester (We do school year-round, but we don't go as strong during the summer), but the first couple of chapters looks to be about square roots, and I really like the way it's all explained. 

 

Thank you all for calming me down. I was freaking out--again. I think I see a pattern here...

 

Anyway, my DD loves the arbor books so much that she woke up this morning and started her math while I was still in bed, and then proceeded to teach my DS10 about graphing, and taught him how to play Battleship with graph paper. I love to see the light turn on for them. ;)

 

Thank you all!

Angie

[BusyMom5]

THe Pythagorean Theorem is at the very end of 8/7- like THE last lesson, and it's repeated in lesson 59 (if I remember right) of Saxon Algebra 1.  Clearly the introduction is only that, an introduction.  Square roots have been done for a long time- so not sure the depth you are asking for on that one.  Regular squares- like up to 12s, were memorized in an earlier Saxon level, and so far I don't see much working with squares other than the perfect ones your child already knows.  I've got Saxon 8/7 and AoPS here, and sort of use both.  My DD is preferring Saxon, but I plan to review w/ AoPS before moving on to Algebra.  In both it seems like PT is introduced, but the child does not work with it very much, and definitely not to mastery. 

[Penelope]

It's helpful to have the Pythagorean theorem introduced before algebra 1, because it helps you understand how to calculate the distance between two points on a coordinate plane.

[wapiti]

Whatever algebra you go to, you could use other materials to fill in the gap for whatever topics you feel you are missing from your prealgebra preparation.  If you are considering AoPS Intro to Alg, for example, you could use the Prealgebra videos and Alcumus just for those topics first.

 

The square root and Pythagorean Theorem chapters in AoPS Prealgebra are both excellent.  FWIW, it includes simplifying square roots using prime factorization, approximating square roots, and arithmetic with square roots.  Coverage of the Pythagorean Theorem begins with deriving it and includes triples and special right triangles (not exactly less than the initial topic coverage in, say, Jurgensen Geometry, though obviously a geometry course will use those concepts as a basis for other topics).

 

Note that the video list for Intro to Alg refers to the set of 7 videos from the Prealgebra chapter on square roots for just one portion of one lesson in Intro to Alg, so I do think it's helpful to spend that time filling in.

[Forgiven]

It's helpful to have the Pythagorean theorem introduced before algebra 1, because it helps you understand how to calculate the distance between two points on a coordinate plane.

 

Now that you say this, Penelope, I think I'll look further into the Coconuts and Crocodiles book that she is in right now. She's doing a lot of work on the coordinate plane...I wonder if it's in there, but I didn't see it at first glance.

 

Angie

[Forgiven]

Whatever algebra you go to, you could use other materials to fill in the gap for whatever topics you feel you are missing from your prealgebra preparation.  If you are considering AoPS Intro to Alg, for example, you could use the Prealgebra videos and Alcumus just for those topics first.

 

The square root and Pythagorean Theorem chapters in AoPS Prealgebra are both excellent.  FWIW, it includes simplifying square roots using prime factorization, approximating square roots, and arithmetic with square roots.  Coverage of the Pythagorean Theorem begins with deriving it and includes triples and special right triangles (not exactly less than the initial topic coverage in, say, Jurgensen Geometry, though obviously a geometry course will use those concepts as a basis for other topics).

 

Note that the video list for Intro to Alg refers to the set of 7 videos from the Prealgebra chapter on square roots for just one portion of one lesson in Intro to Alg, so I do think it's helpful to spend that time filling in.

 

I forgot about the AoPS videos and Alcumus. I think we'll do that in order to make sure we cover our bases before starting AoPS Algebra. We've decided to do AoPS as our main and us Chuckles the Rocket Dog on the side because she loves the Arbor books so much.

 

Angie

[Arcadia]

She's doing a lot of work on the coordinate plane...I wonder if it's in there, but I didn't see it at first glance.

It is the distance formula

 

d = sqrt ((x1-x2)^2 + (y1-y2)^2)

or

d^2 = (x1-x2)^2 + (y1-y2)^2

 

If you draw a line from (x1,y1) to (x2,y1)

Another line from (x2,y1) to (x2,y2)

The last line from (x2,y2) to (x1,y1)

You would get a right angle triangle.

[SparklyUnicorn]

There are only two things that I see in the Saxon 8/7 and AoPS PreAlgebra that I was worried about, and they are square roots and the Pythagorean Theorem. AoPS has it at the end of the PreA book. I looked through the Dolciani book we have, and they are at the end of it as well. I guess I freaked out. LOL I do love the Arbor books, as does my DD. I talked with her about it this morning, and she is fine to continue with the Arbor books. The third book is Chuckles the Rocket Dog (or something like that). My DD won't get to it until the fall semester (We do school year-round, but we don't go as strong during the summer), but the first couple of chapters looks to be about square roots, and I really like the way it's all explained. 

 

Thank you all for calming me down. I was freaking out--again. I think I see a pattern here...

 

Anyway, my DD loves the arbor books so much that she woke up this morning and started her math while I was still in bed, and then proceeded to teach my DS10 about graphing, and taught him how to play Battleship with graph paper. I love to see the light turn on for them. ;)

 

Thank you all!

Angie

 

Square roots are covered more towards the middle.  I guess we didn't get to the theorem because I don't recall it (we did not use all of AoPS pre A).  Not that this matters at all.  AoPS A 1 does cover it though for sure so it won't matter.  You could also just cover it yourself.  Just watch the AoPS videos that go along with those concepts.  If you want practice find the corresponding section in alcamus, or find worksheets on-line.

 

 

[Forgiven]

Square roots are covered more towards the middle.  I guess we didn't get to the theorem because I don't recall it (we did not use all of AoPS pre A).  Not that this matters at all.  AoPS A 1 does cover it though for sure so it won't matter.  You could also just cover it yourself.  Just watch the AoPS videos that go along with those concepts.  If you want practice find the corresponding section in alcamus, or find worksheets on-line.

 

I was already planning for my DD to start Alcumus this summer, so I think we'll go this route with introducing square roots and the Pythagorean Theorem. At least then I won't worry so much before she start AoPS Algebra. Thank you for this recommendation.