Questions about dealing with school

[Innisfree]

We've got a meeting Friday morning with the team from the school dd10 used to attend. After getting her ASD diagnosis we've been exploring all options for therapy and possibly re-enrollment, so talking to the school and seeing what they could or would provide seemed like an obvious step. 

 

One thing we know she needs is speech therapy, for example, and we'd like them to do a general evaluation with the goal of seeing what therapy they would provide and what accommodations they'd make.

 

I've given them exhaustive information on the testing she's already been through and the autism evaluation.

 

They say they want us to sign a release so they can talk to her pediatrician. I can't figure out why they'd need to do so. They responded, vaguely, about "standard questions."  On the one hand, we've got no reason they shouldn't talk to the ped, so I could sign. On the other hand, it just sounds like overstepping. They've already got her diagnosis report, an educational psych report from the year before, a report from an SLP, two years of standardized testing, and copies of her schoolwork.

 

So, questions:

 

1. Is asking to talk to a pediatrician standard? Any idea what they might want?

 

2. They also claim they do not have to do an evaluation based just on our request for one, which we have given them in writing. They say the team will decide with us, and they may want to try interventions first. I'm not even sure how they could do interventions on a homeschooled student, but I guess we'll see. The phrase used is RTI, or "response to intervention." Is this right?

 

3. Finally, they want me to provide them with her grades. I told them I haven't kept track of grades. It isn't required here, I know her strengths and weaknesses very well, and the last thing my anxious perfectionist dd needs is to know I'm grading her work. So, is this a standard requirement, and will the fact that I don't have any record of grades cause trouble?

 

This school thing is sounding like more trouble than it's worth, and we haven't even started yet...  :glare: Teaching this kid myself hasn't been easy, but I'm beginning to remember why I've been doing it. But finding out if they can help seems like the responsible thing to do... I think. :sad:

[OneStepAtATime]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

I don't have answers to your specific questions since I have not attempted to put my kids back in school or tried to go through the school system for help.  Our local school is actually fighting tooth and nail not to have to provide assistance to anyone and has refused certain government monies to be able to do so.

 

However, I will send you hugs and best wishes and hopes for some useful help.  I will also share my gut instincts.  

 

It sounds very much like this will be a ton of trouble without a lot of help.  I hope that I am wrong and they are just extra careful but it sounds like they are looking for any excuse NOT to do an evaluation, for one thing.  

 

Hopefully, that doesn't mean that the team itself is not capable of providing help, though.  What type of interventions are they talking about and how trained and experienced will the person or people be that are doing those interventions?  

 

They have two years of standardized test scores so I don't see why they are pushing homeschool grades unless that is just another box they want to check off and don't really know how to function without them.  

 

How popular is homeschooling in your area?  Is it fairly unknown?  New but growing?  Well established?  Have they seemed pretty anti-homeschooling?  Just inexperienced about homeschooling?  Comfortable and experienced with homeschoolers?

 

ETA, if you are comfortable you might identify what state you are in.  That will affect regulations and others in that state might be able to give you more specific advice...

[texasmama]

I don't know what state you are in, but in Texas, all of that would not be true.  I find it odd they want a release of info to speak to the pediatrician.  RTI is a typical approach to put off testing and see if kids can be helped without the extensive testing. They may be referring to what would happen if you reenrolled your child in school.  Asking for the request in writing is standard.  In TX, it starts a timeline which is driven by federal guidelines, if I recall correctly.  Again in TX, I was able to make a request for my homeschooled child to be tested, and testing was completed.  I was not asked for grades.

 

It is possible that you are getting the run around.  I would not sign an ROI to the ped, personally.  The need for that has not been demonstrated.

 

What you need is the legal rights of parents in your state.  The state should have a central educational agency which you can contact for information.  I had to do this once, and received help and kindness and a follow up phone call.  There will be state statutes regarding any treatment of homeschooled students and requests for special ed testing or services, so you need to ask for those specific statutes so you can review them.  It can be a bit confusing to navigate the waters, and the schools do not always have correct information or a kind heart towards homeschoolers.  My experience over the years has been overwhelmingly positive, but enough negative popped up here and there to remind me I was an outsider in their system.  That is when I sought out answers outside of the local school.

[Innisfree]

We're in Virginia, and we have made the request in writing. 

 

Reading more, it sounds like they do have the right to do the RTI first, and they probably want the grades because they want some sort of baseline to see if the interventions are making a difference.

 

I still don't understand the request to talk to the ped.

 

Yeah, I'm getting the strong feeling that all this will be more trouble than it's worth, but if we can get them to provide speech therapy it could potentially be a significant help. That's a very big "if" right now. Twice before she's simply refused to speak enough to get evaluated accurately... that may be the intersection between autism and speech issues.

[texasmama]

This is the page you need.  Scroll down and spend some time reading links.  Have you been given a written copy of the procedural safeguards?  That is required in Texas.  On the below page, under "Outside Resources" on this page, click on the first link

 

http://www.doe.virginia.gov/special_ed/index.shtml

 

If the links don't answer your questions, call the agency.  They must comply with the law, and you cannot know if they are if you don't know the law.

 

As a parent, you have many rights.  During one IEP meeting for my homeschooled son, a principal was invited as part of the necessary quorum.  He never made eye contact and stared out the window the entire time.  Also, the diagnostician chastised my son's wonderful OT during this meeting.  It was unpleasant.  I registered a complaint against the principal and refused to have a meeting with him present again.  They moved the meeting to a different location and I didn't have to look at his bored, smarmy face ever again.  Boom.  (Sorry for the rabbit trail, but that felt good.  :D )

 

Also, as a parent you have the right to bring an advocate to any meetings you have with the school.  There are people who do just this, attend IEP meetings and other meetings to advocate for special ed kids/parents.

[OneStepAtATime]

Good luck OP.  Sounds like texasmama (whose a wonderful gal, by the way) has hopefully given you some solid pointers.  If you think to and are willing, please post how the Friday meeting goes.  We will be routing for you.  :)

[Innisfree]

Thanks, texasmama and OneStep. I'll spend some time reading that link. 

[Mrs. Tharp]

The pediatrician request is standard and has never been a big deal for us. A section for medical information is in an IEP and relevant remarks from the pediatrician are included there when one is created.

 

This actually was helpful for us just today. My son has issues with fatigue in class, and during the meeting, the staff was deciding that he wasn't getting enough sleep, in spite of my remarks to the contrary. I was able to point to the IEP, where the pediatrician had noted "problems with fatigue" five years ago. That ended that, and it was later concluded that sensory, social & executive functioning issues (in other the words, the fact that he has autism) were to blame and that fatigue was to be expected. So imo, when you are dealing with ps, more information is never a bad thing.

 

It's also normal for them to want to wait before conducting an evaluation and I believe that they are legally allowed to do this. Whether it's more trouble than it's worth to go through the district to get services, only you can decide, but it is quite a bit of work to do so. I second (or third) the advice to learn the law.

 

 

[PeterPan]

Check the law in your state.  In our state, if you're in the ps and merely ask about evals, they can say RTI first.  However once you request IN WRITING, the timeline starts and they're not allowed to require RTI.  Now what I did, since I knew RTI before evals was their thought process, was to give them documentation of my own RTI process we had done as homeschoolers.  Just because you homeschool doesn't mean you haven't increased the levels of intervention to see if increased instruction would bridge the gap.  In our case it did seem to help them understand our situation and what we had done.  I was taking what I had done, which mirrored their RTI process, and explaining it in terms they could understand.  They didn't have the right to require RTI, but I wanted to show that I had done a similar process to what they would have done and that there should be no excuse to moving forward, kwim?

 

Yes, I also talked with an advocate in our area.  Our school has been very nice to deal with, so it wasn't necessary to bring one in.  However it's really important for you to know the law and speak their language.

 

I think (trying to think how to say this politely) you may or may not get the speech therapy benefit you hope for with your advocating.  You might want to make sure the SLP you'd be getting access through with the ps is actually qualified to deal with the problem you have.  The more complicated or uncommon, the problem, the more likely it is they're NOT going to be able to provide that level of service.  Now *in theory* you can advocate (again, knowing the law!) and make that happen.  I'm just saying it's uphill depending on your problem.  Our school district has *1* person trained at even the very first level of PROMPT, the only therapy known to be effective for apraxia (my ds' problem).  That person is on maternity leave this year btw.   ;)

 

So whatever.  Obviously you feel it's worth your time.  If your state has some kind of disability scholarships or school choice programs, they might be worth looking into.  They might expand your list of options for SLPs, so you can make sure the one you're fighting and spending all this time to get is actually skilled at the problem you have.

 

Not to pry, but are you actually needing ABA, not so much ST?  Or maybe a mix?  Will the school provide that as well?  That's all out of my league.  I'm just saying it would be frustrating if you advocated and then realized what you got access to wasn't what you wanted.

[Innisfree]

That's helpful, thanks.

 

Yes, we've been working our way through Wrightslaw. Somehow we'd missed the bit about RTI, though. Clearly we have a lot to learn.

[PeterPan]

I know, I have felt SO behind the eight-ball with this!!!  Like CONSTANTLY.   :glare: 

 

I URGE you to get a hold of an advocate in your area and spend 20 minutes on the phone with them.  The one I called talked with me for free for about 20 minutes, and seriously she totally jump-started the whole thing in my mind, reframing how I viewed it.  You don't have to use the advocate to benefit from talking with them.  And if you think the services the school has will be valuable, sounds like you need an advocate PRONTO so you can understand the law in your state and what you need to be doing to get them.  

 

And yes, I'd be skeptical on the ped request.  Call a SN advocate in your state.  Find out who that person is.  Actually, it was some grace of God and providence that led me to find one.  I had called a dyslexia tutor, and she says oh by the way you ought to be talking with so and so.  That so and so was an advocate.  I had no clue, and that advocate was a BIG paradigm shift for me, just in realizing how careful I needed to be, that basically nobody was going to hand it to me, that nothing was going to happen unless I cited the law, said it, reminded, and did it.

[Innisfree]

OhElizabeth, thanks, yes we absolutely need ABA, but we already know they never provide it. I personally do not have high hopes for what we'll get, but dh wants to try, and he may turn out to be right, who knows.

 

AFA speech goes, we'll just have to see what they say. And, of course, see what dd says! Because if the problem's not just a slight speech impediment, but a refusal to speak based on social anxieties and ASD, that's a bit different.

 

And mentioning the interventions we have done-- thank you! Yes, you're right, that is something I can show.

[PeterPan]

Is that called selective mutism?  Have you thought about asking the SN coordinator upfront how much ST kids with autism get if they qualify for speech or if any of the therapists have experience with that problem? Or asking what the word on the street is for services the school tends to provide and how generous they are with ST?  That seems like such a time-intensive, special problem, you're just not likely to get that kind of care through the school.  Maybe you will?  

 

The school here seems equipped to handle articulation.  

 

I'm just saying it would be a shame to waste a lot of time fighting for an IEP only to realize their services wouldn't even help you.  I'm doing it, but that's because in our state it gets me access to a scholarship to use with other providers of my choice.

[Innisfree]

About selective mutism-- you know, I've been feeling silly lately that I've only just started thinking of it in those terms, but it's because of the diagnostic history here. When dd was 5, and going for her first speech eval and refusing to speak, she already had an ODD diagnosis. So refusal to speak looked like opposition and defiance.

 

And it is so very selective, for her: she mostly seems quiet and shy, but once she is comfortable, she'll speak, more or less, depending on context. For some weird reason she's never been uncomfortable with the dentist, and his whole office staff thinks she's a riot.

 

But put her in an unfamiliar setting where she is uncomfortable, and especially if she's getting evaluated, and she clams up and looks sullen or angry. So it's always looked like a behavioral problem, especially in the context of angry outbursts at home and emotional regulation problems. (By the way, it was a very smart ed. psychologist who told me high-functioning ASD kids often first get the ODD diagnosis, then mood disorder, then the ASD is finally recognized.)

 

So, it's just since we got the ASD diagnosis that my light bulb has gone on, and I've been thinking "oh, the refusal to speak is a symptom! It's a problem, an issue, all on its own, and they need to be prepared to treat that!"

[1shortmomto4]

I wish I could provide some more positive input.  My experience (I live in your state) has been nothing but a run-around disaster and that was before we homeschooled.  My ds started in the PS and from day one he was having issues but we didn't know what they were or how to help.  He had a few meetings to decide if he neeed an IEP but it was always "his handwriting is pretty bad but not bad enough to warrant help" (1st and 3rd) or "he is struggling to read but it isn't bad enough so we'll just keep waiting" (2nd) or "his reading and math skills have begun to really drop but it is because he is not taking school seriously" (this was 4th grade).  Well, guess what.  We had him privately tested in 4th and he couldn't read at his level.  Part of the problem was the lack of reading instruction and no phonics instruction.  Once we returned to the PS to present the results - sorry, but we don't have any money for reading remediation.  Why?  Because the budget went to teach ESL, so sorry, but good luck.  Sooooo, we began homeschooling.  Come to find out that he had a severe hearing impairment that wasn't discovered until he was 15!  All the providers, educators - missed it and it was present since birth but I had been yelling for years that something wasn't right.  So, I don't have much faith that the school will do much for your sweet child.

 

Interesting rambling note -- I grew up overseas and my parents always said that people wanted to be assigned to the DC/VA area because VA took care of the special needs/LD kids.  I've yet to see that happen.  Once we had our ds' dx, there was no help to get the $4000 hearing aides so I'm not sure what help they provide here.

 

Now, I have heard, in my neck of VA, that they do help speech needs so perhaps there is hope.  I'd still be very leery giving them any more info that they have a right to have - just like the NOI.  Historically, the more info they've been given the more times they've used it against a family and intruded upon rights.  Be careful.  Keep records, names, dates, etc.  Make a paper trail.

[geodob]

In regard to signing a release to talk the ped?

They would be breaking the law under the HIPPA laws, where their are tight laws about discussing 'health information', that could identify an individual.

Teachers even have to be careful about talking about a student, with another teacher.

Here's a link to HIPPA:

http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/privacy/index.html

 

With the evaluation, an important factor, is that you have already provided them with comprehensive tests and reports.

At this stage, the only evaluation that they could offer?

Would be a very general evaluation, and repeat the tests that you have already done.

Which would be a waste of time.

This actually a good sign, as often schools will reject the evaluations and reports provided by parents, and insist on doing their own testing.

So that this a good indication, that they will recognize your evaluations/ reports.

 

But asking about 'grades', would help them to understand her current abilities with different subjects.

Where it needs to be appreciated, that they don't what level she is at, with each subject?

Though 'response to intervention' RTI, could help them to understand her different levels.

 

So that it seems that they want to go through a process of getting to know your DD.

Then you can have a meeting with them and discuss evaluations and therapy, that they understand the need for.

[fruitofthewomb]

I am a former SLP and worked in public school for several years. I worked with only pre k, k, & 1st with some limited middle/high school experience.

 

My child needs OT. I could go through the school & get it for free BUT I know the quality of therapy is just not on the same level as a private therapist. It's not that the OT (or ST) isn't qualified-it's just the way the school system works. I hated working for the school system. I felt like a much better therapist when I worked for a private company.

 

I have applied for a form of supplementary insurance to help offset some of the cost. I would do some investigating & see if your state offers some kind of assistance. Look around for private therapist. Someone who specializes in your child's needs.

 

I have an acquaintance who applied for a grant to get ABA for Her child. I don't know the details. She is a ST.

[Innisfree]

I am a former SLP and worked in public school for several years. I worked with only pre k, k, & 1st with some limited middle/high school experience.

 

My child needs OT. I could go through the school & get it for free BUT I know the quality of therapy is just not on the same level as a private therapist. It's not that the OT (or ST) isn't qualified-it's just the way the school system works. I hated working for the school system. I felt like a much better therapist when I worked for a private company.

 

I have applied for a form of supplementary insurance to help offset some of the cost. I would do some investigating & see if your state offers some kind of assistance. Look around for private therapist. Someone who specializes in your child's needs.

 

I have an acquaintance who applied for a grant to get ABA for Her child. I don't know the details. She is a ST.

 

[Innisfree]

I am a former SLP and worked in public school for several years. I worked with only pre k, k, & 1st with some limited middle/high school experience.

 

My child needs OT. I could go through the school & get it for free BUT I know the quality of therapy is just not on the same level as a private therapist. It's not that the OT (or ST) isn't qualified-it's just the way the school system works. I hated working for the school system. I felt like a much better therapist when I worked for a private company.

 

I have applied for a form of supplementary insurance to help offset some of the cost. I would do some investigating & see if your state offers some kind of assistance. Look around for private therapist. Someone who specializes in your child's needs.

 

I have an acquaintance who applied for a grant to get ABA for Her child. I don't know the details. She is a ST.

 

 

Yes, we're working on getting help with this. There's not much here, but we've applied for a waiver. Not sure what the odds of success are, though.

 

I'm completely with you on the benefits of just going with private therapy, but dh thinks we should go through the process and see what the school will do. 

[texasmama]

Selective Mutism describes the behavior, but she would not receive the diagnosis due to the fact that the mutism is related to an autism diagnosis, per the DSM.  That may be relevant knowledge in your quest for help from the school.

[texasmama]

Experiences with the public school districts vary widely so if it is not too terribly much trouble, it is worth pursuing to see what might be offered.  I have also appreciated the repeated and extensive testing done on my ds (educational and cognitive).  It would have cost thousands of dollars privately.  I was recently able to take the reams of testing materials, have a diagnostician friend review these and do some fine tuned testing with him.  She is in private practice now.  It saved a lot of time and money and allowed her to choose the fine tuned tests based on his scoring on the WISC, WJ, etc. 

[Mrs. Tharp]

Yes, we're working on getting help with this. There's not much here, but we've applied for a waiver. Not sure what the odds of success are, though.

 

I'm completely with you on the benefits of just going with private therapy, but dh thinks we should go through the process and see what the school will do. 

 

Yeah, if you can afford it, private therapy is almost always better.

[Mrs. Tharp]

Experiences with the public school districts vary widely so if it is not too terribly much trouble, it is worth pursuing to see what might be offered.  I have also appreciated the repeated and extensive testing done on my ds (educational and cognitive).  It would have cost thousands of dollars privately.  I was recently able to take the reams of testing materials, have a diagnostician friend review these and do some fine tuned testing with him.  She is in private practice now.  It saved a lot of time and money and allowed her to choose the fine tuned tests based on his scoring on the WISC, WJ, etc. 

 

This. To qualify, private therapy is almost always better, but the expense of it can be incredible. Speech, OT, counseling, ABA, social groups--it all adds up. My experiences in one school district have varied from abysmal to excellent.

 

[Innisfree]

I just wanted to post an update. We had the meeting Friday and it went better than I could have imagined. They'd read the info I'd provided, and they seemed to understand dd's anxiety and need for security. They said there was no need to do an RTI process before evaluating since we'd already tried all the interventions they would have suggested. 

 

I was really pleased with the genuine interest everyone had in helping. Two teachers who will be doing testing even offered to come to our house ahead of time to meet dd and let her talk with them about her special interest, so they won't be strangers on the day of testing. They've also suggested that a partial day might be a good option for her. The only real problem seems to be that we may have a hard time demonstrating that her issues affect her academic performance, since we've been providing fairly effective scaffolding. I still need to think about that one, and of course about whether I want her back in school, full or part time.

 

The whole experience has so far been interesting and salutary in an unexpected way. As a homeschooler it's easy to start thinking unfavorably about the public schools, but I couldn't help but be very impressed with these people. What the system will actually let them do for dd is still unknown, but it was a very good start. 

[OneStepAtATime]

I just wanted to post an update. We had the meeting Friday and it went better than I could have imagined. They'd read the info I'd provided, and they seemed to understand dd's anxiety and need for security. They said there was no need to do an RTI process before evaluating since we'd already tried all the interventions they would have suggested. 

 

I was really pleased with the genuine interest everyone had in helping. Two teachers who will be doing testing even offered to come to our house ahead of time to meet dd and let her talk with them about her special interest, so they won't be strangers on the day of testing. They've also suggested that a partial day might be a good option for her. The only real problem seems to be that we may have a hard time demonstrating that her issues affect her academic performance, since we've been providing fairly effective scaffolding. I still need to think about that one, and of course about whether I want her back in school, full or part time.

 

The whole experience has so far been interesting and salutary in an unexpected way. As a homeschooler it's easy to start thinking unfavorably about the public schools, but I couldn't help but be very impressed with these people. What the system will actually let them do for dd is still unknown, but it was a very good start. 

:hurray:  :hurray:  :hurray:

 

And thanks so much for the update.  SOOOOO glad it was a positive experience!

[MomOfABunch]

I'm glad your meeting went well. If you're in the northern VA area, I can connect you with a fabulous advocate (should you need one down the road).

[Innisfree]

Not near northern Va, but thank you! :-)

[fruitofthewomb]

I just wanted to post an update. We had the meeting Friday and it went better than I could have imagined. They'd read the info I'd provided, and they seemed to understand dd's anxiety and need for security. They said there was no need to do an RTI process before evaluating since we'd already tried all the interventions they would have suggested.

 

I was really pleased with the genuine interest everyone had in helping. Two teachers who will be doing testing even offered to come to our house ahead of time to meet dd and let her talk with them about her special interest, so they won't be strangers on the day of testing. They've also suggested that a partial day might be a good option for her. The only real problem seems to be that we may have a hard time demonstrating that her issues affect her academic performance, since we've been providing fairly effective scaffolding. I still need to think about that one, and of course about whether I want her back in school, full or part time.

 

The whole experience has so far been interesting and salutary in an unexpected way. As a homeschooler it's easy to start thinking unfavorably about the public schools, but I couldn't help but be very impressed with these people. What the system will actually let them do for dd is still unknown, but it was a very good start.

I am so happy that it went so well!