How long to give school

[LLMom]

It is always so much easier to advise others. :huh:

This fall, I put my 9 year old dd in school. She is severely dyslexic, but I was assured she would get accommodations which she is. She is doing well grade wise, but the last few weeks she has been claiming she hates school and wants to stay home (she has previously been homeschooled) Over the last week, it has been tears each night (one night for hours). She says it's too hard and she can't focus. I have talked to the teachers. They don't seem to notice an attention/ADHD type issue. The special ed teacher is going to observe her in class today and then talk to me.

 

I put her in school for a break for me and because I thought she was a bit bored at home with all of her siblings in school. But I purposely didn't get an outside job or close the door on homeschooling all together. I really believe homeschooling is best in most cases for these types of kids, but I don't want to pull her out too quick. But I also don't want her to feel more stupid/incapable than she already does. Any advice?

 

[OneStepAtATime]

Oh, that's hard on both of you.  If it were just a bad day once in a while, I'd say stick it out.  However, if she is under that much emotional strain and it has lasted an extended period, then keeping her in may cause lasting damage.  BTDT.  I waited far longer than I should have with my son.  3 years out we are still dealing with the emotional aftermath.

 

If she is really wanting to homeschool again, is there any way that the two of you could work out some changes to make it more of a positive for both of you?  Some outside classes that you could scaffold as needed?  Some specific interest led skills acquisition with an outside tutor?  Maybe some homeschool based social groups like a lit club or a history club or something?  

 

 

[OneStepAtATime]

In fact, would there be a class that the two of you could take together?  

[Crimson Wife]

Has she ever had an auditory processing eval? General ed classrooms are typically very noisy places and if she has CAPD, the noise could be interfering with her ability to focus. My oldest has suspected CAPD (she came out borderline-low on the eval so technically no diagnosis but the audiologist thinks that she's compensating). Every time we're at her little sister's PS, she complains about the noise.

[Lecka]

I hope you can get helpful information from the special ed teacher after she observes her. 

 

It sounds like something is wrong. 

 

I think it will depend on if you/they can figure out what the problem is, and how to address it. 

 

I think if it is a known problem and it is being addressed, I would put up with bumpy moments in getting back to a really good place. 

If it seems like it is just "shrug -- we don't know" then I would not have hope of it getting better. 

 

I kept my older son in school while he was having some school anxiety and rocky moments, but I felt like he was getting support he needed at school (from his teacher and a counselor) and like we knew what was going on and were taking steps to fix the root problem.  They said -- he might tend to be anxious, but they thought it might be all coming from his problem, so if we could fix the problem, slowly his anxiety could get better. 

 

It took time, but it felt right.  Even though he was still crying some and sometimes didn't want to go to school. 

 

But -- it felt different than before we knew what was the root problem, and it seemed like it was more of "shrug, we don't know."  Not like they didn't care, b/c I never felt like that.  Just like -- if they don't know what is wrong, how can they know what to do differently. 

 

But I don't think there are any hard-and-fast rules.  But if you feel like you are just not getting anywhere with finding out what could change to make school better for her, that is what I would look at. 

 

Also, my son always seemed like he had things he liked about school, and seemed like a school kind of kid, just in his personality.  Like -- he would be happy there, unless something was wrong. 

 

Good luck to your and your daughter!  I am glad homeschool is still an option, if things do not get better at school. 

 

Edit:  I do agree with One Step.  I think -- if you do not feel like the special ed teacher is getting a read on it TODAY or making a helpful suggestion THIS WEEK that can be implemented VERY SOON -- then it sounds like it is the point where you need to be seeing changes made that really seem like they will lead to a better school experience for her, NOW.  Otherwise -- you just keep sending her, and nothing really changes.  I would hope to be able to follow up with the teacher and special ed teacher every day.  See if you can find out what is happening at school on the days she is most upset, and see if you can find a pattern.  

 

But if it seems like it is just not going anywhere very soon, I think it is not likely to change. 

 

I also would expect them to take your word for things and understand your daughter is stressed out and having a hard time, even if they personally do not see a likely cause.  It shouldn't matter if they see a likely cause or not. 

 

 

[OneStepAtATime]

Good point, CW.  I strongly suspect this may be part of DDs issues.  She never really could retain much in a classroom.  Too much noise just shuts her down.  Can you maybe get your child evald for auditory processing issues, OP?  That might help figure out more of the puzzle of what is happening. 

[Lecka]

At the time, that is when I found out about my son's very low OT scores.  I had no idea, and his teacher had no idea.  His teacher thought he had ADD/ADHD -- the school psychologist said he did not based on the parent and teacher questionnaires.  At the same time my husband was deployed to Afghanistan and my younger son was getting diagnosed with autism and starting special needs pre-school and ABA therapy. 

 

I knew my son was crying over timed math facts, and his teacher stopped those as soon as I told her he was crying at home -- she had no idea he even cared, at school he played it off like he thought it was funny.  He started going in the hall and doing oral, untimed math facts from that day. 

 

But, I didn't know his handwriting was such a problem.  He got to where he would not even start to do any written work, he was anxious about not finishing.  His teacher saw this and thought it might be ADD/ADHD. 

 

But his teacher stopped the timed math facts, and he started seeing the counselor (I had met her before, she does a lot with military issues and my son had been going to military kids lunch with her).  Then soon after (2-3 weeks iirc) we had the IEP meeting and that is when we all found out about his OT and that he did not have ADD/ADHD.  Then -- it showed a path forward.  

 

And, my son had started doing better at home from the day he quit having the timed math tests. 

 

So -- that is the story here.  He really likes being in a classroom and he does very well with hearing the teacher talk, he has always done well with discussion-type things.  His teacher that year did not like to see that he had such a discrepancy between his oral answers and his written work, and I think may have been trying to encourage him in ways that backfired.  But -- she followed the counselor's and school psychologist's suggestions and was very happy to do things to help him. 

 

My son also really liked that teacher, b/c she was funny and kind-of a comedienne, and he liked to be around her and part of her class. 

 

If you are not feeling a lot of reasons to keep her in if only things were working out better, I think that counts for a lot, too. 

[LLMom]

Thank you for the ideas.  The special ed teacher is going to give both us and her teachers an ADHD checklist.  (she also fidgets a lot for her dyslexia tutor in the afternoon, but that may be because she is schooled out)  I will ask about auditory processing issues as well.  They seem really like they want to find out what is wrong and help which is encouraging.  It just kills me that I have to peel her off of me while she is crying and begging to stay home. :crying:

[OneStepAtATime]

Hopefully you can get better info on what the issues are and can come up with a plan to address them.  Even if it looks like homeschooling is the better option for your child overall, I agree with Lecka that if you could address whatever the problems are then giving her a more positive experience right now may be really helpful.  I wish I could do that for my son.  He left school so demoralized and depressed and insecure, even bitter at times, and very angry.  He was just barely turning 8 and yet all his love of learning had been stamped out.  I wish I could go back, discover the issues MUCH sooner and help him have a good year, even if we did homeschool in the end anyway.  

 

Leaving on a bad note may affect how your child perceives any type of school setting.  That could be a big issue later even if you homeschool her now.  Hopefully, they can get you some answers and maybe you can turn the rest of this school year around so she has a good experience, whether you homeschool again next year or not.  Just please don't leave her too long if you aren't getting answers and aren't getting much support from the school.

 

What did you do for the original evaluations?  Who did them and how much did the evals cover?  If you feel there are possibly additional issues beside dyslexia, you might look at getting more evaluations outside the school system.  Schools tend to come at evals strictly from a "how do we keep the child functioning" mentality instead of a "What are all the issues and strengths so we can help this child thrive and tap into their true potential not just now but for the future?".  And they may not have the training to delve in really deep.

 

Good luck!

[LLMom]

I had her evaluated last spring, when she was homeschooling, through the school district.  It was a test for dyslexia only because that is what I thought was going on so we started there.  I may look into some outside testing.  Thanks

[Lecka]

I was able to talk to my son's counselor (this might be the special ed teacher for you) about him not wanting to come to school in the morning.  And, in his case, not feeling hungry for breakfast, while his teacher and counselor both felt like he needed to eat better in the morning. 

 

In our case, talking to the counselor, and with my son showing anxiety, it was important for me to basically make him go to school.  B/c, otherwise the anxiety wins, and it can feed into anxiety later.  This is not the end-all be-all, it is not more important than kids being in a suitable school situation, but for our situation, I did agree and feel like he needed to not give in to the anxiety. 

 

Part of this, I had forgotten, is that he was sick and ended up missing school when he was not physically ill but was making himself sick from anxiety.  So -- I had let him stay home for over a week, thinking he was really sick.  (I think this is also why the school was so helpful -- b/c he ended up having several days of unexcused absences).  Then I took him to the doctor, and the doctor told me she suspected it was psychosomatic and that it was caused by a problem at school, and I needed to talk to the school, and the doctor said to come back and talk to her if I did not get good result from school (I did, so I didn't go back to the doctor). 

 

While he stayed home, he was worrying and worrying (I didn't know this at the time, he told this to the school counselor) that he would not be able to make up his missed work and that he would get behind.  He went back to school for one day after missing a couple of days, and apparently was upset about the missing work.  So, we think he was really sick the first couple of days, then went back to school, then stayed home with anxiety stomach-aches thinking about how he could not make up the work.  But in the meantime -- he was just missing more work, and the power of the anxiety was growing and making him more anxious (this is how it was going with him, it can be that way with anxiety from what the school counselor told me). 

 

So anyway -- I needed to feel good about him going to school, and be strong, and be positive but honest with him (that I knew it was hard but me and the teachers at school wanted it to go well for him and were going to try and make that happen), and send him to school even when he was clingy in the mornings and really worried about going. 

 

For him -- things did get better and he saw that things got better, and he was still fragile, but now he is really not fragile and it is more in the past.  This happened in 2nd grade and he is in 4th grade now.  For him, he is reading well now, and his handwriting is still a problem. 

 

My impression at the IEP, was that usually/often the answer in this situation would be ADD/ADHD, and they were surprised it was not.  My son was still part of the ADD/ADHD program for a little while, he did the program with the counselor and had the teacher make little goals for him and help him get started and things like that.  He responded really well and was only in that program for 2 months, then the teacher continued the rest of the year.  I think he did so well partly b/c of not having ADD/ADHD but he had some similar/overlapping issues.  I have a good impression of what they were doing with him.  He liked to earn marbles for the class marble jar and his teacher was giving him lots of chances to do that, for just getting started with his work, and things like that. 

 

I have still not had a full eval for him.  He has had private speech and OT evals, and the ADD/ADHD questionnaires (that came back saying he doesn't have it), and VT (saying he doesn't need VT if OT can help him tracking issues, which it did).  The school psychologist said he may have some kind of slow processing, but they can't test for that anywhere in our town, it would be involved for me to get that testing.  I told the private OT that, and she laughed and said that is just like saying he has dyslexia.  At the time he was not able to memorize his easiest addition facts, and there was no explanation, but his teacher said she would move him up to the next levels of math facts so that he would not feel like he was stuck too far behind other kids.  But now he knows his addition facts pretty well, and his subtraction facts okay, and his multiplication facts surprisingly well. 

 

Anyway -- good luck.  I hope you can find out.  If it seems like she has ADD/ADHD, then I think you would be treating it whether she is at home or at school.  But maybe you would still find home a better environment.  But -- if that is what it is, then I hope it turns out they can make school a good place for her, once they have ideas for how to support her with it.  It is definitely more than "here, take some drugs" at our school.  The counselor does things and then the classroom teacher does things -- I don't know too much about it, but my son was getting supports for initiation and breaking his work into smaller parts and getting cues to stay focused, and they were things from the ADD/ADHD program.  I liked that it seemed like the teacher was very familiar with it and had done it all before with other kids, she just needed to know which things to do by talking to the counselor.  I was told that my son did a good job at implementing his goals from the counselor (again, maybe b/c he didn't really have ADD/ADHD so it was not as hard for him). 

 

I was a little sad at the meeting when the school psychologist said medication would not help my son.  I went in with a little part of me hoping it might be something easy like that, even though I really know medicine is not easy. 

 

I hope it goes well for you guys, I am wishing you the best. 

[Heathermomster]

Are you volunteering at her school?  Are you reading to her class or working as your DD's room mom?  I did things like that at son's school.  I inserted myself and knew people.  I spoke with other parents.

 

DS sat in a private classroom pre-k through 6th grade.  He's been friends with the same kids since he was 4 yo.  I pulled him second semester 5th grade and taught him to type.  He was diagnosed by a np beginning 2nd grade so was receiving Wilson tutoring three times per week and was accommodated in the classroom.  Handwriting was a major issue.  For years, every afternoon and evening was devoted to afterschooling.  Given the amount of time dedicated to afterschooling and homework, homeschooling is a cake walk.  

 

Homeschooling and classroom instruction are just different.  Your child could be struggling to adjust to the class.  There are many rules at school, and then there are all the personalities/people to deal with.  Definitely have observers in the classroom and try to discover the issues.  A family friend's DD used to come home everyday and sob.  The girl was a perfectionist and basically expended so much energy holding herself together in the classroom that she fell apart in the safety of home and her mother.  There was girl drama in the classroom too.  DS was in the class and used to laugh about it.  

 

Your DD may require additional accommodations.  Seeking a full private eval could help with acquiring more accommodations, and I am assuming the school will accept recs from a private professional.  You may need to ask about that.   

 

I don't know how to advise you.  You sound like you need more information to make an informed decision.  Good luck!

[Crimson Wife]

Thank you for the ideas.  The special ed teacher is going to give both us and her teachers an ADHD checklist.  (she also fidgets a lot for her dyslexia tutor in the afternoon, but that may be because she is schooled out)  I will ask about auditory processing issues as well.  They seem really like they want to find out what is wrong and help which is encouraging.  It just kills me that I have to peel her off of me while she is crying and begging to stay home. :crying:

 

CAPD is unfortunately one of those issues where there is controversy over whether it's a medical problem or a LD. The schools here treat it as a medical concern and won't test for it. But our current HMO health insurance specifically excludes CAPD testing from coverage, saying it's an educational issue. So we're looking at having to pay out-of-pocket for the eval once my little one is old enough to have one. Not looking forward to that because the cost of my oldest's CAPD eval was $1800 (fortunately covered at 90% through our old PPO insurance). Maybe we'll have the opportunity to go back to the PPO by then but who knows.

[PeterPan]

You mentioned she's schooled out by the time she hits her dyslexia tutoring.  Is it a private OG tutor that you're paying for? Could you *pull her out* during the day?  That way she'd be more fresh and it would *cut down* the school time without pulling her out, which you seem not entirely to want to do.  And maybe go ahead and get the evals for OT, hearing, etc. rolling and pull her out during the day for those too, kwim?  So sorta intentionally lessen her school time without creating a quiting/failed dynamic.  

 

I'm not saying it would be a wrong option to pull her out.  I'm just suggesting another way you could approach it.  I think that dyslexia tutoring ought to be done while she's most fresh, 9 am, bam.  Or maybe they have a recess slot or right after lunch or a time that will be good for her?  

 

 

[LLMom]

You mentioned she's schooled out by the time she hits her dyslexia tutoring.  Is it a private OG tutor that you're paying for? Could you *pull her out* during the day?  That way she'd be more fresh and it would *cut down* the school time without pulling her out, which you seem not entirely to want to do.  And maybe go ahead and get the evals for OT, hearing, etc. rolling and pull her out during the day for those too, kwim?  So sorta intentionally lessen her school time without creating a quiting/failed dynamic.  

 

I'm not saying it would be a wrong option to pull her out.  I'm just suggesting another way you could approach it.  I think that dyslexia tutoring ought to be done while she's most fresh, 9 am, bam.  Or maybe they have a recess slot or right after lunch or a time that will be good for her?  

 

I wish I could do that. Her tutor is the dyslexia coordinator in a school district in another town so she is in school all day.  I am going to see about the other evaluations too.

[LLMom]

Thought I'd post an update.  All the teacher's did an ADHD eval as well as us.  Nothing indicated that she should be tested for it.  Special ed teacher observed her in 2 different classes and says she is fidgeting a lot thinks it's from being anxious.  They are going to implement a few more accommodations to see if that helps.  I felt good after talking with the special ed teacher, but my dd is still crying a lot and begging to stay home.  We are going to see if she improves with these changes.  Thanks for the help.

[OneStepAtATime]

Good luck!

[LLMom]

Update:things haven't improved yet. (I realize it hasn't been hat long) She continues to cry and melt down often. Her dyslexia tutor thinks she is manipulating us so we will give in and homeschool her. I was upset to say the least. My daughter is obviously stressed, and her advice is for us to tell her that "we know this is hard, but school is what we have chosen for you." That doesn't sit well with me. Could it be that she is just putting on a show and manipulating us?

[AliR]

I think it is far more likely that a 9 year old is communicating her distress by crying over an extended period of a few months, rather than being manipulative.  From what you have said, the school has changed nothing since fall, in fact they are directly accusing a child of something quite unpleasant.

 

An anxious, stressed child will not learn best, and will not be getting the best social experience of school either.  I waited out 18 months of misery before pulling DD out of PS, and I recall asking someone if things would get better.  Their reply was that eventually DD would stop crying as she would realise that no one was listening to her. I didn't want to be a parent that didn't listen to their child.

 

Best of luck with whatever you choose.

[LLMom]

Actually her tutor thinks she is being manipulative not the school...or at least they haven't said that.

[Heathermomster]

Dyslexia remediation is extremely hard.  Your child should be fidgeting and struggling because her brain is in the process of being rewired.  New neural pathways are forming due to the remediation.  As a parent, it is painful to watch.  

 

Outside of becoming active at the school so that your DD sees you there and you can monitor the environment, I say come alongside her and explain to her the brain, and why she is so uncomfortable.  Her feelings and emotions are natural and to be expected.  Promise to come alongside her and help her overcome these challenges.  Sympathize and try to establish a team strategy.

 

I am working under the assumption that your DD has friends and is not being bullied, either by another student or teacher.  

 

Set the timer for one hour of homework per night and be done with it.  The teacher should be adjusting her homework load to account for the tutoring anyways.  Ask the teacher to prioritize the homework.  Scribe and do every other problem.   

 

The tutor should be using prizes and actively endearing herself to your child.  Try not to be upset with the tutor.  She is human and the job is tough.  If I were in your DD's shoes, I'd be crying, begging, and pleading with my mother too.  Crying, begging, and pleading are the only tools that your child has in her arsenal as a defense. 

 

DS worked with the same Wilson tutor from 2nd through 5th grades.  There were times when I could barely speak to her.  Sometimes, things are just hard.  The interactions are deeply personal, and it is difficult to hear others speak of your child.  Try to work under the assumption that the tutor cares and wants to help your child.  Maybe send the tutor some dark chocolate and dry erase markers as a thank-you gift through the year.  Do all that you can to maintain a positive relationship because the benefits are potentially huge.  

 

Have you read any of the posts by SandyKC?  I feel like she could benefit you, supposing you were to pull your DD.

[Lecka]

Okay, there are two sides here.  As a parent, you are the one who knows your daughter, that is the bottom line.

 

I am just reading the book "Growing Up Brave" from the library, I have heard it is good.  It is about anxiety, and it agrees with a lot of things that I heard from my son's counselor when he was having anxiety.  But the problem is, this book is only about anxiety, it is not about anxiety and learning disorders.  If you read about learning disorders, you will read more about how learning disorders and their difficulties can lead to anxiety.  And, I do not think they are just the same, I think it matters what the underlying thing going on is.  B/c -- are you trying to really fix the learning disorder by accommodating and remediating, and expecting that by addressing these things, and then addressing anxiety, you fix things.  Or ---- are you assuming you just need to fix the anxiety.
 

It is true ---- if your daughter and you are wrapped up in a cycle where she is anxious, and then *you give her attention,* you may be feeding into her cycle of anxiety.  You may be sending her messages that she has a reason to be anxious.  This book I am reading has some suggestions for ways to not do this.  But ----- I disagree with using the word "manipulative."  But ---- I think this is probably what the tutor means.  She sees that your daughter is anxious, and it gets to you, and that could be reinforcing your daughter's anxiety.  If this is *actually* what is going on, that there is a cycle of anxiety, that is the current problem, it is separate from the dyslexia even though it probably started from it, then..... the tutor is right.  You need to get out of the anxiety loop, and support your daughter, and if she is being anxious, you need to address it in the ways you are supposed to address anxiety.... and that can mean (if it is recommended for her individually) that you do minimize your participation in her anxiety and instead look for ways to be positive and focus on the positive and whatever.  Lots of suggestions in the book I am reading.

 

But the problem is ----- if she is anxious and it is not just "oh it is anxiety," it is really "this is totally coming from the effects of the learning disorder" and not "it started from there but now is separate from it."  (B/c ---- maybe her accommodations are good now, but she has started with anxiety, and is just going to continue with anxiety b/c she is in the loop, and needs to get out of the anxiety loop with your help.)  But ----- if there is still trouble for her every day in school, b/c the accommodations do not work, or she is ashamed and feels different from using the accommodations, or cannot hear well, or cannot concentrate, or cannot work quickly enough, or her handwriting is not good enough, etc, etc, etc, then that is a problem that is going to be solved by addressing the anxiety.  

 

I got a help from the counselor from my son's school.  But I did feel like -- okay, the bad situation that caused him to be anxious, it is really addressed.  It is really okay now.  But that did not make my son quit being anxious -- the anxiety still lasts longer than that.  So -- I felt like, yes, we are in the part with the cycle of anxiety, and it is time to take steps to address the cycle of anxiety, and that can include being strict and ignoring some complaints, though that is not the only part of it.  There is a lot of being positive, and building good experiences, and stuff.  

 

Well, I was helped with this by my son's counselor, and the way his eval came back, I did feel like they changed things appropriately.  

 

I don't know if your daughter's school has yet changed things appropriately.  Maybe they have changed things, but it is not good enough.  Maybe it is good enough, but your daughter is stuck in anxiety.  Maybe it is both things happening at the same time.  

 

If you feel like she is in a good situation, then I think you need to get into anxiety and say "okay, so my daughter is anxious, I have got to deal with it," and read the book or talk to the counselor or a counselor, and find out what you are supposed to do.  

 

But what if her situation is too stressful?  Then I think you relieve the stress, first.  If the stress is too great for her to bear, then just doing the anxiety stuff will not help anything.  

 

But it is possible that you have addressed everything and she is in a good situation, but she has gotten into a habit of anxiety, and now you have to help change the habit.  

 

If she is anxious then you will want her classroom teacher to be on the same page as you, and you will both need to address things in a consistent way. 

 

The problem is that if your daughter cries and then she gets out of things, this can reinforce crying as a way to get out of things.  It is an escape or avoidance behavior.  This is true.  But this is NOT the whole answer.  It is just, it is true, if your daughter has gotten into a pattern where she cries and then she gets out of something, or gets something special, then that is not a good pattern, the pattern needs to change.  You and the teacher will be key in changing the pattern.

 

But if that is what is going on, her situation really has to be good, or it won't work.  And, you can't just assume that is what is going on, maybe that is not what is going on.  But -- if that is what is going on, and her situation is good, she is not too stressed out, she is not feeling like she is different from other kids at school, etc, then the tutor may have a good point (but I do not care at all for the term manipulative, I think it is just a pattern that is going on, between people, and it is hard for a child to change a pattern -- it is what they know and they don't know how to change it).

 

It sounds like she may have a stressful time to me, and I think I would be considering trying to give her some free time to relax and do things that she is good at.  She needs success in her life to feel like she is a worthwhile person.  She may not be getting much success at all right now.  She may be tired a lot and need more rest or more chances to be active.  She may be feeling like she is different in a bad way because of her use of accommodations.  

 

These are all things that I am afraid are not addressed, and must be addressed, when people start to look at a pattern of behavior too narrowly.  

 

I think if the whole structure of her life is too stressful and does not have enough times when she feels like a competent and engaged person, then she may need big changes.  

 

I agree with Heathermomster, too.  Her post is very good.  

 

I also agree with the other poster -- if the school is not concerned she is crying, that is a problem.   

[LLMom]

After I wrote my post this morning, I got my daughter up for school only to be greeted with the same tears from last night and a flat out refusal to go. As the morning progressed, she screamed, cried, and wouldn't get dressed. After 30 minutes or so she agreed to get into the car in her pajamas. I grabbed her clothes and when we got there I explained what was going on. I briefly talked with the counselor. She then came out to the car, and told my daughter she was supposed to be in school. My daughter is very shy, fearful,and normally obedient so she got out. The counselor didn't have time to continue talking with me, but she said she would talk with my daughter. I am exhausted.

[Lecka]

Call the school, try to talk to or see the counselor today.  You need a plan for the weekend and Monday morning.

 

It sounds like she is crossing into school refusal, and I have seen things about that, mostly with anxiety.  It is something you can google.  

 

As far as I know.... either she is anxious, and she may be dealing with anxiety in her life whether it is school or not, and you do the anxiety things.  Or, something is wrong for her at school.  If it is that something is wrong at school, it may be situational anxiety.  

 

But do google school refusal!  

 

I hope the counselor will work with you, too.  Ours was a huge help to me.  I really had no idea what was going on, and then all of a sudden I had let my son stay home for days and I didn't even know that I was letting him stay home.  But she was very helpful.  It seemed like this was the kind of thing that she was trained to help with as a counselor.  

 

I am sorry for you and your daughter, I know this is a hard time.  I know your daughter is very distressed, and I hope you can find some help and answers so she can be less distressed.

 

I really hope you can get some good help from school.  I would try to see the special education teacher today, too, b/c this weekend is probably going to be hard.  I think, ideally, you will know before you pick her up, whether or not she is going to go to school and have a plan for how you are going to respond to her and what you will say to her.  Good luck, I hope it goes well!!!!!!!!

 

I was able to talk to my son's counselor on the same day, and she seemed like she had a usual kind of thing she did, and it did work out for us.  

 

Though it was not easy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And it took longer than I hoped it would take, it is really only this year he is happy in the mornings and gets ready easily and is in a good mood on the way there.  That was with everything going as well as possible, too, I really do think his classroom teacher was very good with him, and the counselor, too.  

[LLMom]

Everything I read on school refusal says not to let them stay home and don't homeschool. 

[Lecka]

I think you can homeschool.

 

I think if they are going to go to school, you do have to make them go.  

 

But I think you can homeschool.  

 

I think if you homeschool, you can't count on the problem disappearing if you try to do another school-like activity down the road.  I think it might be fine, or it might be difficult the next time a similar situation comes up.  

 

But I think you can wait until a better time/situation and then deal with it down the road, after having homeschooled or deschooled for a while.  

 

I don't think that you cannot homeschool, though.  

 

I think saying "don't homeschool" comes from people having a situation where they *say* they are homeschooling but the reality is they can't get their kids to school and the school is not helpful, and they are being told by the counselor they are getting into the truancy area, and so they decide to withdraw their kids to "homeschool."  With my son, we did not get close to that, but b/c his absences were unexcused (I thought they would be excused) all of a sudden he had 4 or 5 unexcused absences, all in the same month, and they have a rule about "so many unexcused absences in one month and it can be considered truancy."  We did not come close to that kind of situation, but it is easy for me to see how someone gets into a situation where you are going "if they miss one more day it is going to be a truancy charge" and then they "homeschool."  

 

That --- I do not think is a good situation.

 

But -- that is so different than actively wanting to homeschool.  But honestly I do think that is the scenario people have in mind when they say "don't homeschool."  I don't think it has to do with someone who intends to really homeschool.  I also don't think that to have this situation and just put a kid in an online charter and not address it in any other way is not ideal.  But to do that AND address it?  I think is fine.  

 

I also think a lot of the people whose kids need to deschool may have had a situation like this, and I think that is an accepted thing.  

 

But I did hear, that if he was going to be in school, I needed to be clear that he would attend, it was a clear boundary I made.  If you are waivering back and forth, that is harder for your daughter.  But ----- you can totally homeschool her, imo.  I think that if you are going to keep her in, though, you need to be clear on that with her, tell her she will at least finish the school year, maybe say you will decide about next year later.  Then she will not think that maybe homeschooling is possible within the next 3 months.  

 

But I think you can take her out now and homeschool.  I really do!  I think it is an option, and if it is possible, I think there are a lot of pros.   I think there are cons, too, but I think there are pros and cons for both sides.    I think you can decide either way, and either way there will be problems b/c of the choice you make, but I don't think there is a clear-cut best choice.  If -- you feel like you can work with the counselor and stuff with school, if you think school can be positive for her, etc.  

 

It is also possible she has a different situation, that you might find out if she sees a counselor.  If a counselor or doctor thinks she needs time off from school, you can get a note for her, and it will not be unexcused.  But in my case -- I would not have gotten a note, b/c I wouldn't have found someone to say he needed time off from school or an alternate therapy in place of school.  But if there is another plan for her, she could get a note, and the recommendation could be to do something else than just go to school.  I don't know -- but I think it is something where if you want to keep her in, and you are not feeling her needs are met by the counselor, you go ahead and see a counselor of some kind who specializes in anxiety, or anxiety and learning disorders, and get personalized recommendations for her.  

 

B/c sometimes personal recommendations are different than the general ones, b/c of some difference in the situation.  

 

[PeterPan]

Everything I read on school refusal says not to let them stay home and don't homeschool. 

Kinda like Ferberizing your kid???  (ignore their cries and eventually it will go away, except for the kids where it didn't go away and the parents end up feeling really guilty realizing there was more going on and that they listened to some "expert" instead of their own guts)

 

I say listen to your gut.

 

 

[katilac]

 I put her in school for a break for me and because I thought she was a bit bored at home with all of her siblings in school. But I purposely didn't get an outside job or close the door on homeschooling all together. I really believe homeschooling is best in most cases for these types of kids, but I don't want to pull her out too quick. But I also don't want her to feel more stupid/incapable than she already does. Any advice?

 

Well, you're not getting a break, and you and dd would probably both welcome a bit of boredom right now! 

 

Your dd wants to homeschool. You don't seem opposed to it, and indeed think it's usually the best for these types of kids. She is steadily verbalizing the issues she is having and a wish to be home, plus crying and resisting. I would pull her out and not think twice about it, just as most people wouldn't think twice about switching to a private school or a magnet school or whatever school seemed best. 

 

I do get the desire to help her overcome anxiety, and to not feed into it, but, from my limited view, I don't think that anxiety is the core problem here. Anxiety is not what needs to be solved. She's severely dyslexic, so she has tutoring on top of an already long and frustrating school day, and she knows what homeschooling is like versus brick and mortar - I think it's very likely that she is just making a very sensible comparison  :D

[Mom22ns]

Well, you're not getting a break, and you and dd would probably both welcome a bit of boredom right now! 

 

Your dd wants to homeschool. You don't seem opposed to it, and indeed think it's usually the best for these types of kids. She is steadily verbalizing the issues she is having and a wish to be home, plus crying and resisting. I would pull her out and not think twice about it, just as most people wouldn't think twice about switching to a private school or a magnet school or whatever school seemed best. 

 

I do get the desire to help her overcome anxiety, and to not feed into it, but, from my limited view, I don't think that anxiety is the core problem here. Anxiety is not what needs to be solved. She's severely dyslexic, so she has tutoring on top of an already long and frustrating school day, and she knows what homeschooling is like versus brick and mortar - I think it's very likely that she is just making a very sensible comparison  :D

 

Liking this wasn't enough. You tried school. You had her try school. What have you both learned? You weren't putting her in school because you could no longer homeschool or because you thought homeschooling was harming her. You have the supports setup for her dyslexia already. What are you trying to achieve at this point? What are you trying to prove? You are no longer trying to keep her from being bored or give yourself a break, so what is the point now? 

 

My greatest regret in my ds's life is the last year he spent in ps when I should have pulled him to homeschool. It took months to recover, and the damage done that year has stayed with him. I am not unbiased. That is why I didn't answer your thread in the beginning. However, you keep struggling. She keeps suffering. She is telling you this isn't working in every way she knows how. Listen to  your dd.

[PeterPan]

And really, you could dig in on this and think how perverse the advice you're receiving through the ps and tutor is.  Don't pull her from our system.  People who cross the system are bad.  Listening to your child is caving in to your child.  Good parents make their kids do what the system tells them is right.

 

Which turns into: My mom doesn't listen to me.  Don't innovate or be different.  It's not safe to voice dissent.  My mom doesn't care that I'm struggling.  The school doesn't care.  No one cares.

 

It's just sick.  Don't let people who judge you who don't have your dd's best interest at heart.  They're part of the system and their job is to build up the system, fund the system (through continued enrollment), and make people comply with the system.  Keeping you in the system gets them money and power.  Oh yeah, they wouldn't have any motivations for their advice, no way.

 

[Lecka]

I think that is a little harsh.

 

But, I do think, you will NEVER or only in RARE circumstances ever hear from anyone connected to public school officially with your daughter, "hey, I think homeschool is a good choice for you right now." 

 

They should help you with the school option.  That is their job.

 

If you are thinking about pulling her, that is all on your side, and you are completely within your rights to pull her right now, focus on dyslexia remediation, deschool, focus on strengths and interests, etc.  If you make this choice and the dyslexia tutor hassles you about it, that is unprofessional behavior, and you should stand up for yourself and say you have made your decision as a parent.  

 

If you decide to keep her in public school, you should feel like it is a good choice and commit to it.  Your daughter does not get to cry and then stay home from school, IF that is not your decision.  But your daughter still has needs to be successful and have good experiences, and you have a duty to make that happen within and outside the public school framework.  

 

You might make a fuss about getting your daughter better tutoring within the school day, iykwim?  Maybe you could move her remediation to the school day, free up her after-school time some, take away that drive, and save some money.  Maybe it is time to go there, and be a little more difficult, and a little more insistent.  

 

Here is the other thing I will bring up.  

 

My older son has issues, very managed now, that are on the learning disorder side.  He has had reading remediation and reads well.  His handwriting is still slow and poor, he has a harder time with sports and coordination, he does not like a lot of activities that are based around art or music that are group-based b/c he is in a different place from other kids his age.  

 

So -- if he is resistant to activities, can I always assume, that is the only reason, and there is no other reason?

 

No, I can't, because he also has a lot of signs that he is prone to anxiety.  

 

So I can't only look and say, well, we will assume the root cause is ALL from learning disorder-type stuff, and he does NOT have any separate issue with anxiety.

 

He does have a separate, but I feel very minor issue with anxiety.  

 

I know, now, that if I do certain things that can feed into his anxiety, he will have more anxiety.  If I do certain things that do not, he will have less anxiety.  It is not all on me, but I have my part to play.  

 

I hope he will not be anxious as he gets older, but I was told to keep my eye out -- the counselor told me that maybe my son only was responding to a stressful situation.  But, she said, kids will respond to a stressful situation in a variety of ways.  Especially since he is a boy -- they were surprised he didn't act out behaviorally in any way, and didn't do some other things they expect more from a 2nd-grade boy.  He responded in a way that kids who have anxiety may respond.  So I need to keep my eye on him, and I need to be aware that if he is anxious and I allow him to avoid activities that I had *originally wanted him to do, and the reason he is not is because that is my response to his expression of anxiety* then I am feeding into his anxiety.  

 

That doesn't mean I have to be a robot and never make choices.  It just means those choices should not be based in anxiety.  It also means I have a great responsibility to make sure that I am setting him up for success in every possible way, so that I can feel like I am good to encourage him at the times when he is anxious but it is a good activity for him and he ultimately is glad that he has participated.  

 

It doesn't mean I force him to do a bad activity just for the sake of forcing him to do it.  

 

For Ferberizing -- it assumes that a parent's attention is the cause of a child's difficulty in sleeping.  It will work if this is the cause, and there are no additional problems.  I think that in this circumstance, it is good.  

 

But if a child has severe separation anxiety, then that is not the way to go.  If a child has severe stomach pains, that is not the way to go.  If the child is deeply afraid, that is not the way to go.  But -- if the child has no reason but habit to be reliant on parents, then it is good.  

 

But to figure this out, I think it can take personal advice.  

 

I have hopes that someone at school or a private professional can help the poster figure this out.  I think that is what it may take.  I think this is separate from the poster's decision to choose to homeschool or public school.  I think it will need to go this way either way.

 

Just from some things said, LL, I wonder if you could change up your daughter's reading remediation.  I do not think that driving after school is a good situation ----- it sounds highly stressful to me, and like it destroys those evenings.  My older son was in after-school speech therapy for a while, and it was very stressful and took over those days.  He did make really, really good gains in his speech, so it was worth it for that.  But I think I should have tried harder to take him out of school instead of adding on to his school day.  

 

I think that if you homeschool, maybe you could look into Barton.

 

If you stay with public school, maybe you could request an IEP meeting, take your Wrightslaw info, request that she gets research-based reading instruction, etc.  Or, ask if you can go into her school during the day and tutor her on the school grounds.  Or, ask if you can take her out early or late and tutor her at home.  

 

I do not get a good vibe about your current tutor, and vibes really do matter!  There is a HUGE relationship aspect, and she HAS to hit it off with your daughter and do what she can to make the tutoring engaging for her and feel like she is making progress.  

 

If your daughter is making crazy rapid progress, then that is one thing.  

 

If you are looking at this for 2-3 more years, or even 6 more months, really -- anything more than just a couple of months --------- I think that is too long for this "she only has availability after school" situation to work.  

 

I am also going to mention, someone I know did not want to tutor her son in Barton herself b/c their relationship (she wanted it to stay good, her son was older, etc), but there was not a Barton tutor available.  She found someone who tutored and was very good with her son's age, and paid that person, and that person watched the videos and went through the program.  I do not think her son had severe dyslexia, but he was a complete non-reader when he was 9 years old, and spent 3 years doing Barton.  So -- I think this is an option, too.  If there is not another trained tutor, but you also are better not do to it yourself (which is so get!!!!!!!) then maybe this can be an option.  

 

It puts me off of the other tutor that she would say "manipulative."  I don't like that word.  She could get her same point across (that maybe you are doing things she thinks are counter-productive, if this is her opinion) in a much nicer way, a much less judgmental way towards you and your daughter.  Even if she is right (which I have no idea), there is no need to express her point in that way.  

 

I also think, personally, there are a lot of pros to homeschooling right now.  Even if she does have anxiety -- there will be opportunities for her to learn to handle things through homeschooling.  Public school is not the only way.  That is even if she is anxious apart from the stress of her situation.  She may not be!  There are many kids who do not have anxiety any more after the stress is removed!!!!!  That is probably the most common outcome, I bet.  

 

 

[Heathermomster]

The OP's DD started crying 3 weeks ago.  Outside of one teacher suggesting that the OP's DD was manipulating her mom, what crime has the PS committed?  (If we are honest, all children manipulate.  It is their job because they are children).  There is no indication that the OP has volunteered at the school or made any attempt to insert herself in the situation to see what is going on.

 

My limited view of the situation indicates a need for further evaluations for learning issues and anxiety.  Unchecked anxiety issues may have been one of the main underlying issues that provoked the move to the ps in the first place.  I don't know, but it seems that further evaluations are warranted.  

 

ETA:  If you don't actively engage and support the school as the parent, why should you expect the child to?  In my experience, the students with active and engaged parents tend to get the best supports.  My son's 2nd grade teacher became one of my best friends.  The tutor that I mentioned upthread turned out to be wonderful.  I love her and owe her more than I can ever can repay.

[PeterPan]

My ds asks not to go to things all the time, but I take it as an indication that the thing is hard for him, not that he's making a moral action (manipulation).  It's *my* job to determine if that hard is *appropriately* hard or too hard.  Appropriately hard we help our kids suck up and get through.  Inappropriately (without proper supports, with a leader who does not understand his SN, whatever) I change.  

 

Kids are prone to wanting the easy way out, sometimes to their detriment.  Fussing about going to dyslexia tutoring would be an example of that.  But kids also communicate.  Fussing because they're constantly worn out would be an example.  They sometimes communicate *inappropriately* or not in the way we'd desire, but that doesn't mean their communication isn't based on something they're experiencing but too immature to sort out or verbalize.  It becomes the parent's job to sort all that out.

 

And I totally agree, observation and getting in that classroom would be extremely helpful.  However, I can't recall, is the op in a position to do that or is she homeschooling other children?

[LLMom]

I am not homeschooling anyone at the moment, and I am very involved in the school/classroom. I think after homeschooling so long I just feel the need to be involved. Also, she is at a private school, no remediation there, but accommodations thus the need for the tutor.