Quantifying Learning with a Transcript?

[EndOfOrdinary]

In another thread people were discussing how to grade for transcripts. I am struck by how very much I cannot identify with what is being said. No one is wrong, mis-directed, or ignorant (far more of them have a better grasp on the situation than I do with Ds being only ten) but it appears that they are wanting to quantify the courses and classes their children are taking.

 

When I taught public high school, I felt that quantifying was somewhat possible. Even when working with independent study kids, it felt possible as most chose a fairly standard way of being graded using essays, textbook tests, or a level of presentation as the final project. Their learning was streamlined, and those who were not were so far above that their grades were obvious.

 

I am at a complete loss on how to quantify my son's learning. It seems so arbitrary and ridiculous. A letter on paper means nothing. It doesn't even begin to express him or what he has learned. It seems like it is much like the word "honors" or "advanced." These words really have no meaning only a bit of perceived prestige.

 

This does not mean Ds won't get a transcript, but more that it will be constructed only for colleges and will just be a measure of hoop jumping/game playing. The toil over a transcript seems like added stress for something utterly intangible. The idea strikes me as "educationese" and a lot of wordsmithing.

 

Am I missing something? Does this have to do with the acceleration PG thing? Is it because Ds is already passionate so I see him working and learning constantly? I just don't get it. Please enlighten me, I feel like the obvious is staring at me and I am not seeing it.

[regentrude]

Any grade or grading scale is completely meaningless unless accompanied by the assignments that are evaluated, and by the grading rubric.

But, IF one were to look at the combination of grade+graded assignments, this can, in my opinion, give a good picture of the student's performance. So, in other words, a portfolio of the student's work together with the evaluation.

 

An "A" in math alone says nothing. An "A" in math together with the A-worthy test and the grading key gives a clear picture of what the student has mastered.

Ditto for other subjects.

 

Unfortunately, it is not feasible to include a portfolio of work with the transcript at most schools, since there is no manpower to wade through portfolios.

Those of us who write detailed course descriptions and submit those with the transcript attempt to paint a more complete picture of our students' education.

[JeanM]

I've been following transcript discussions carefully because college applications are not far off for my 10th grader. I believe to a certain extent the transcript *is* arbitrary. How to divide work into classes, what you put as course work instead of extracurricular, what grade to assign to courses, etc. However, for college application purposes, I'm trying to make ds's transcript look like something that an admissions person can understand and easily compare to other students' transcripts. This is easier for some "courses" than others. It does seem to be important, at least at some colleges, to have a standard transcript with grades.

 

One approach we've used is to box things based on a future result. For instance, before this year, ds had done a variety of Spanish studies. He did some Breaking the Barrier Spanish, some Duolingo, some online tutoring, etc. This year he is taking honors Spanish 2 at the high school, and he has an A+ in the class. So I feel pretty comfortable labeling what he did before "honors Spanish 1" and giving him an A.

 

For other classes, like AP calculus, I'm assuming that if ds does well on the AP exam, if we give him an A in the course, it will make sense.

 

Some things, like band, I wouldn't necessarily have called a "class" and given it a grade. However, ds is taking band at the public high school, and it is a full credit class for which he has a grade. I need to put it on his transcript so that his homeschool transcript will be consistent with the grades that are sent directly from the public school.

 

There are some other topics, especially history, for which I have no idea how to handle. Last year and this year were easy because ds took history at the public school. He's run out of AP classes there though, so next year may be more difficult to quantify.

 

 

[Dmmetler]

What I am doing right now is to keep two transcripts. One is the get 'er done transcript. DO the curriculum, check off the state standards, take a standardized test and done. In general, my DD's transcript that way documents through about 7th/8th grade state standards without issue.

 

The hard part is the areas she truly loves, and has dived into way above high school content, but via following interests and projects. So, she's completed all the state standards for pre-algebra, most for Algebra 1,  a good number for algebra 2 and about half of statistics, but probably won't actually check all the Algebra 1 boxes until next year sometime because AOPS doesn't follow the same sequence. Science is even more screwed up. A good number, but not all, for general biology. Quite a few for Earth Science, a good number for chemistry, almost none for physics except those that overlap middle school physical science. Plus tons and tons of additional topics that are, at best, electives because there aren't even state standards for zoology, vertebrate physiology, evolutionary biology,  ethology, etc.  I had planned to finish up those topics and have her do some sort of bio exam this Spring-and then she got a new project that requires a lot more microbiology, so that's now on hold, again.  I'm kind of hoping that her essay and CV help to explain it-because I'm at a loss as to how I should do so!

 

 

 

.

 

 

[quark]

Some of it has to do with age and acceleration. Some of it has to do with need. When there is a sudden need for the purpose of access to certain types of classes, you might find yourself scrambling to quantify what he has done.

 

Transcripts were stressful for me until we recently came across the need. I had luckily been keeping track of books used and classes outsourced since 4-5th grade  thereabouts. When DS wanted to dual enroll, the college asked us to submit a high school transcript and I had to find a way to truthfully record what he had done (e.g. high school level work dating back from 4th) but organized it by subject so that they could make sense of it without too many questions back and forth about age. I then verbally explained the situation about him being younger and "graduating" via a high school equivalency test (taken by sophomores, hence why his transcript only went up to 10th) but also being a minor and therefore, re-enrolled in my private homeschool. They understood the uniqueness of the situation and didn't press us on the transcript.

 

So, I do have a somewhat unofficial preHS-10th grade transcript in my binder now due to that experience but as DS works on higher and higher level work, some of the previous work can be left out when he needs the official transcript. The transcript as a pp mentioned is there so admissions have a common language/ method of comparing applicants, but the actual story behind my child will hopefully be more accurately represented via personal statements/ essays/ school profile etc. And due to DE and outsourcing and some standardized testing, we do have grades to include.

 

Personally though, I understand how difficult it is to quantify what our kids do. DS is rarely "fully done" with learning something. One of the english courses on his unofficial transcript is work started in 4th and about 80% completed in 6th with many good quality books and only a handful of well-written essays, but he had done enough reading, research and oral presentation via discussions too for me to consider it a full course (over 200 hrs worth) for transcript purposes. Thankfully, I don't have to worry when it comes to uni application because DS might either transfer, or will have college level (DE) english courses on the freshman app transcript I will submit (backed by those DE transcripts).

[8filltheheart]

My kids' grades are not typically calculated similarly to a classroom. I explain that in my counselor letter and in their course descriptions. Some grades are based strictly on discussion and essays. I say so. My ds created an independent study on black holes and dark matter. He put together a research project based on his reading. He discussed with me many of the things he was reading and explained in detail to me (so I could understand) the difference between nuclear fusion and fission and hydrogen bombs and what conclusions those led scientists to form in terms of stars, black holes, etc. His grade in that class was 100% based on discussions and his research project. (which was stated in the course description for the class)

[Arcadia]

Some of it has to do with age and acceleration. Some of it has to do with need. When there is a sudden need for the purpose of access to certain types of classes, you might find yourself scrambling to quantify what he has done..

:iagree:

The local math circle asked for what my older did for math for two years when we apply for the 5th grade math circle.

My district's STEM program for 7th-12th grade requires me to submit transcript and GPA for 6th grade. The program is open for applications to all 6th graders in the school district boundaries including private and homeschoolers.

It's a means to an end but since homeschoolers in California are suppose to keep records just like private schools, its not a big deal to just do it.

 

ETA:

My kids are entertained by their public school report cards anyway. I had report books from when I was in pre-K. My parents kept them for me.

[LTBernard]

This thread is  making me wonder at what age/grade/whatever do people start transcripts?  Is this something from kindergarten on? 

[regentrude]

This thread is  making me wonder at what age/grade/whatever do people start transcripts?  Is this something from kindergarten on? 

 

That depends entirely on the state and the reporting requirements.

In my state, no reporting is required, and thus I would only need a transcript for college admissions purposes.

This said, I find it very nice to keep an  ongoing record where I list what my child has studied. I began doing this as soon as I pulled them out of school in 5th/6th grade - and the  kids also like a record of their educational accomplishments.

It also helps me design the education for the younger one, since I have the records what the older one did in the same year/for the same topic, what books, lectures, docus we used.

As I mentioned in another thread, my record keeping has several layers: I keep a 1 inch binder as portfolio for each school year with important papers/tests/projects, and I write up a summary for each semester, detailing what we did in each subject plus what extracurriculars etc we did, about 2 pages total.

 

 

[SparklyUnicorn]

I struggle with the same thing.  I do recommend SWB's lecture regarding how to construct a transcript.  It was helpful. 

[EndOfOrdinary]

This thread is making me wonder at what age/grade/whatever do people start transcripts? Is this something from kindergarten on?

I am compiling a portfolio now, but not a transcript. Technically I could be. The materials Ds is using for chemistry are high school level and he does the tests and a much more complex lab component. His oratory/public speaking/speech stuff is high school level. His civics is high school. His math and literature are as well. Lots of documentation all over everywhere. However, there is no need for Ds to graduate with a mountain of credits. Next year, the records will increase just to be sure he does not want to graduate at 14. Right now he does not (we have explored this a lot), but that might change.

 

I was asking because I have never given much stock in transcripts other than to just give paperwork to a college. My ten year old is knocking the snot out of some of my husband's at risk, top of the pack seniors. This is not to brag. This is to say that Ds' high school transcript is not going to be comparing apples to apples with quite a few high school kids. It is impossible to compare apples to apples unless you are comparing kids within the same school. In that way, what credability does any transcript have?

 

My overly logical, analytical brain is bothered by this. It finds the stress and weight the transcript is culturally allotted to be irrational.

[regentrude]

 My ten year old is knocking the snot out of some of my husband's at risk, top of the pack seniors. This is not to brag. This is to say that Ds' high school transcript is not going to be comparing apples to apples with quite a few high school kids. It is impossible to compare apples to apples unless you are comparing kids within the same school. In that way, what credability does any transcript have?

 

But information like this is part of the transcript! The point of the transcript would exactly be to show that this is a student who has completed coursework way beyond the average high school level.

 

My DD's transcript shows, for example, that she got an A in a calculus based physics course at a STEM university at age 15. That is information that shows that this student is not comparable with the average public school student.

Her transcript shows that she has been studying French intensively and completed six college credits.

The transcript reveals that we cover literature and history as an integrated course and work in a  chronological progression.

It shows standardized test scores, reveals a special interest in culinary science, an advanced math sequence.

 

Another  board member's transcript would demonstrate an extraordinary interest in physics by listing not only several university courses, but also self designed courses on astrophysics. Yet other boardie's DS would have an impressive concentration of advanced math courses, or another one's DD would have advanced courses in biology and herpetology.

 

That all is information that can tell about the particular student's individual interests and strengths.

 

 

 

It finds the stress and weight the transcript is culturally allotted to be irrational.

 

I do not understand this. Since it is obviously not feasible to have every applicant interviewed by every college, some kind of summary of educational accomplishments on paper is required - just like one would submit a resume for job applications before progressing to the interview stage.

I'd much rather have emphasis on the transcript than solely on one standardized test score, which has far less information about the individual student.

[JeanM]

This thread is  making me wonder at what age/grade/whatever do people start transcripts?  Is this something from kindergarten on? 

 

I put together the first transcript when my ds needed one, which was when he was 13 and applying for a volunteer position. I will add though, that I started keeping some kinds of records (books used, etc.) when ds started doing high school level work. We're not necessarily going to use all of his "high school level" courses on his transcript for applying to college, but I like to have the option.

[Kathy in Richmond]

The transcript is just a one-page summary of your kid's educational journey, a shorthand way to allow the college admissions officers an overview of his education. The real meat of the application will be the details you expand on in his course descriptions, school profile, counselor letter, and also in what others reveal about him in their letters of recommendation. Essays and interviews will give him a chance to present himself, too.

 

I kept good records, but I didn't bother with a transcript at all till my kids needed one in grades 11/12. It wasn't too difficult to put together at that point. Honestly, the formatting issues were more difficult for me than what to list on it.

[quark]

It wasn't too difficult to put together at that point. Honestly, the formatting issues were more difficult for me than what to list on it.

 

These days, there are free templates online to download and edit/ tweak to your heart's desire. :D I have been playing around with a logo (simple, elegant) for my school and different layouts (elegant and easy to read). :D

I once downloaded one in Excel (for fun, but I can't remember where from) that even automatically calculates cumulative gpa.

EoO, look at online samples from private schools for more ideas too.

 

Some sample templates (just a quick google):

Donna Young

Let's Homeschool Highschool

 

Other samples.

 

ETA: if you join the hs2coll yahoo group, there is a sample of a narrative transcript as well. I am guessing we could also check with different colleges if they have a preference?

 

[Kathy in Richmond]

Yes, there are lots of free samples to use as starting points. I used Dori's Excel template from the hs2coll resource files (highly recommend it).

 

The trouble was trying to fit in everything, figuring out how/whether to present test scores, achievements & awards, etc, and still get everything on one page without resorting to a microscopic font size. :laugh:

[quark]

The trouble was trying to fit in everything, figuring out how/whether to present test scores, achievements & awards, etc, and still get everything on one page without resorting to a microscopic font size. :laugh:

 

:laugh:

 

Kathy, is a two-page transcript not recommended?

 

[Kathy in Richmond]

:laugh:

 

Kathy, is a two-page transcript not recommended?

 

 

I think that 1-pagers are more common, and I wanted my kids' transcripts to look as much like schooled kids' transcripts as possible. It was also a great exercise for us to try to boil down high school to one page of the most important stuff.

 

We ended up putting achievements & awards in a separate document. The kids list them in summary on the Common App anyway, so no need for too much repetition. We did find a space for test scores on the transcript front, since lots of public & private schools do include them.

 

But I don't see a 1-pager as a hill to die on, either. If a 2-page transcript works better for you and is clear & concise, then it should be OK. The adcoms don't have a lot of time, so keep it as simple a summary as possible & give them the other info (course descriptions, etc) to check out if they have questions or want further details.

 

[quark]

Thank you Kathy!

[Arcadia]

The trouble was trying to fit in everything, figuring out how/whether to present test scores, achievements & awards, etc, and still get everything on one page without resorting to a microscopic font size. :laugh:

That sounds too much like writing a résumé :lol:

Thanks for all the posts.

[regentrude]

Yes, there are lots of free samples to use as starting points. I used Dori's Excel template from the hs2coll resource files (highly recommend it).

 

 

We used that one too. It is set up so courses are listed simultaneously by subject area and by grade, rather genius.

I am pretty sure somebody attached this transcript template or one very similar to it in one of the threads on the high school board; check out the sticky thread on top of the page.

[MBM]

That sounds too much like writing a résumé :lol:

Thanks for all the posts.

 

Resumes can be very helpful even for high schoolers.

 

Our high school encourages seniors to write a resume to give to alums who interview the student for prospective colleges. That way, the interviewer can just look over the resume and ask about specific activities or accomplishments.

 

The career counseling department also wants to students to have a resume. My son is a senior and is going to begin job shadowing various positions in finance soon. One of the requirements is that he has to bring his resume to give to the person who will be sponsoring him. In my son's case, he's listed things like classes he's taken, math camps and awards, math topics that he likes and studies on his own, work and volunteer experience, interests and goals, where he's going to college. Some of the kids who job shadowed in the past were able to get internships at companies this way. Pretty cool!

 

A general resume might include

--Academic Honors

--Extracurricular Activites

--Volunteer Experience

--Work Experience

--Community Involvement

--Interests

 

Visual and performing arts students are strongly encouraged to have resumes starting their freshman year because they often participate in activities outside of school. They would bring their resume to auditions or portfolio reviews.

 

Visual and performing arts resumes might include

--exhibits

--instrument proficiency

--concerts

--which chair a student played

--special music competitions

--height, weight, hair and eye color (theater)

--theater experience

--training

--special skills such as different types of dancing, dialects, etc.

 

I'd highly recommend having a resume, too. :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I see where you're going on this, OP. I was very unwilling to play the game and speak the lingo, just to try to sell my son somehow, when his entire childhood had rather defied description from the start. Junior Year of high school seemed like a funny time to start seeking boxes to put him in, a funny time to start competing and jockeying for Best in Show...so whatever I was going to do had to not feel like that to me.

 

I did create a transcript. As regentrude advised upthread, I had retained all work and information, and I had kept some grades, so it was not at all difficult to create a one-page transcript. It was just arranged by year, with nothing more than course names and grades, GPA, attendance, and PSAT/SAT scores.

 

I also created a resume, as MBM describes. I kept it brief and factual, focusing on events and milestones outside our school rather than on subjective opinions. By the time I finished typing the first draft I realized that anybody would indeed have a pretty good picture of my son, after they saw the titles of his courses on page one and then, on the resume, all the opportunities and achievements that resulted from his studies and his talents.

 

Then I created course descriptions and booklists. We didn't send these to universities that specified transcript only, but others to which he applied wanted any info homeschoolers were willing to give. These received transcript, resume, course descriptions and booklists, two essay samples, and a letter of recommendation.

 

So. I did no hoop-jumping, transcript-padding, or studying of inflated ed-speak to get this done. I just let my son do his thing for his homeschool experience, and wrote down what we did at the time. Then when he was done and ready to graduate, I found some info online about how to type it all up in a way people outside our school could understand. We didn't dress it up or water it down. It was more like, "Here he is. Got a place for him or do we keep looking?"

 

I consider what I did to be the minimum. In my son's case it led to acceptances to honors colleges, Dean's scholarships, and an invitation to compete for Presidential Scholarships at 100% of the schools to which he applied.

 

 

[EndOfOrdinary]

I promise I have been thinking about all that you guys have said!  Thank everyone for being willing to educate my ignorance.  I am not ignoring people.  The legistlative session has just begun which means a lot of   :willy_nilly:  and a bit of   :zombiechase: .