Deflated balls...(Update post #111) U#2 Brady suspended 4 games...

[EmilyK]

This is funny. I really like Richard Sherman.

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/richard-sherman-claims-conflict-interest-deflategate-article-1.2091483

[Colleen]

 

"Q: This has raised a lot of uncomfortable conversations for people around this country who view you as their idol. The question they’re asking themselves is, ‘What’s up with our hero?’ Can you answer right now, is Tom Brady a cheater?

TB: I don’t believe so. 

 

 [A simple NO is needed here. Instead, we get an answer about how he "feels." Likely, he feels everyone does it, therefore HE is not a cheater.] 

 

 I feel like I’ve always played within the rules.

 

[Another statement of how he FEELS. Also addresses "playing" within the rules, not "others" altering the game ball on his behalf.]

 

 I would never do anything to break the rules. 

 

[Notice how this is constructed, I "would never," not I DIDN'T. And likely he had someone else break the rules on his behalf]

 

 

You're spot on, Trish.  The very fact that he's incapable/unwilling of providing straightforward answers, as opposed to equivocations about his feelings, is telling.  Your last point is particularly well taken.  The Brady Bunch "feel" they can say in all honesty that they didn't do anything to break the rules ~ in the process passing the buck to the equipment handlers.

[Colleen]

If the NFL really wanted the Pats to win then why did the refs help the Seahawks "beat" the Packers?  

 

How did the refs help the Seahawks beat the Packers (or convince the Packers not to clinch the win within their grasp, as the case may be)?  

[Tsuga]

 

The sad part is that the Pats will probably win.

 

I don't think so.  :D  :cool: 

 

Seriously though, I only handle one man's balls so I really can't come down on one side or the other. If they're cheats they're cheats.

 

I just suspend belief regarding all kinds of hanky-panky in the NFL from bets to steroids to the whole nine yards. Otherwise I couldn't watch. I just tell myself--the guys who play know. They all make those choices for a short-term reward. So I'll watch it without knowing where it falls between, say, middle school football and WWF.

[Luanne]

How did the refs help the Seahawks beat the Packers (or convince the Packers not to clinch the win within their grasp, as the case may be)?  

 

The refs don't call holding or pass interference on the Seahawks (especially in the NFC Championship games).  It is very difficult, if not impossible, for a quarterback to get a ball to a receiver when the defender is interfering with him (holding his arms).  There are rules that the refs are supposed to abide by, but don't when it comes to the Seahawks.  I've been watching football since I was 6 years old and I pay very close attention to what is actually going on in the games.

[Colleen]

The refs don't call holding or pass interference on the Seahawks (especially in the NFC Championship games). It is very difficult, if not impossible, for a quarterback to get a ball to a receiver when the defender is interfering with him (holding his arms). There are rules that the refs are supposed to abide by, but don't when it comes to the Seahawks. I've been watching football since I was 6 years old and I pay very close attention to what is actually going on in the games.

Eh, I've been watching my whole life, too (and I'm no spring chicken). You're wrong - and if you watched all the Hawks games, you'd realize as much. But really, team loyalty is beside the point. There are no teams that refs always do or don't favor. Bad calls, missed calls are spread around.

[Tsuga]

Seattle has the most penalties of any team in the NFL this year, last year, and the pattern started before (in 2011 they were #2):

 

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/penalties-per-game

 

I don't care how much anyone watches, there are stats on this. I have watched football off and on since I was a child. But since I haven't been entering data on every penalty in a spreadsheet from age 6 on, I'm not going to claim that the stats we have are wrong.

 

There is a positive correlation (no time to test this today, remind me later LOL) between how well you are doing and how often penalties get called on you. That's because the NFL does not have a conspiracy to make one single team a winner because some exec has a personal friend on that team's staff. It's because their business model relies on a certain level of uncertainty and emotional attachment from fans.

[Luanne]

Eh, I've been watching my whole life, too (and I'm no spring chicken). You're wrong - and if you watched all the Hawks games, you'd realize as much. But really, team loyalty is beside the point. There are no teams that refs always do or don't favor. Bad calls, missed calls are spread around.

 

And some people are so loyal to a team that they can't tell when they are getting help from the refs.  I've watched ALL 32 teams play.  Sorry, but I know what I'm talking about.  Not very many people pay as close attention as I do to football.  Most people just watch to see who is scoring and don't really watch the other aspects of the game. 

[Luanne]

Seattle has the most penalties of any team in the NFL this year, last year, and the pattern started before (in 2011 they were #2):

 

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/penalties-per-game

 

I don't care how much anyone watches, there are stats on this. I have watched football off and on since I was a child. But since I haven't been entering data on every penalty in a spreadsheet from age 6 on, I'm not going to claim that the stats we have are wrong.

 

There is a positive correlation (no time to test this today, remind me later LOL) between how well you are doing and how often penalties get called on you. That's because the NFL does not have a conspiracy to make one single team a winner because some exec has a personal friend on that team's staff. It's because their business model relies on a certain level of uncertainty and emotional attachment from fans.

 

That is true.  It is also true that they ignore a lot of other penalties by them that they should be calling.  The refs are careful to only call penalties on the Seahawks when they know it won't affect the outcome of the game.  Sometimes it is just 5 yards for off sides or false start... or when the other team is going to decline the penalty anyway.

 

Anyone who believes that the NFL refs don't play favorites is just kidding themselves or is a huge fan of a team that benefits from their partiality.

[MyThreeSons]

Darn it. You guys are joking. This stupid thing has been bothering me. I hate it when people cheat. The most plausible explanation is someone used knowledge of basic chemistry to achieve the lower inflation -- as opposed to actually deflating them physically. Then, I heard someone did an analysis of games and found a pattern that suggested this started in 2007.

 

But return to your jokes. Jokes are better than wasting emotional energy on being angry that people cheat. Maybe I need to watch late night tv.

 

I've been saying that if we ever get to the bottom of this, the truth is likely to be that the Patriots found a way to not break the rules to their advantage. Sort of like they did with the eligible / ineligible receivers thing a few weeks ago. 

 

It has been kind of nice to see scientific principles discusses so much on the news and sports programs. It would be better if they got it right, though. One of our local newscasters said that an NFL football is supposed to weigh 12.5 to 13.5 pounds! (He meant it is supposed to be inflated to 12.5 to 13.5 pounds per square inch.)

[MyThreeSons]

A couple of other things that bother me:

 

Coach B talked about how the Pats get the balls to the right texture, then take them to the officials and tell them to inflate the balls to 12.5 psi. Nothing I've read supports that chain of events. 

 

The NFL rules give an allowable range for the pressure of the balls when checked by the refs 2 hours and 15 minutes (why that number?) before the opening kickoff. But I haven't seen anything that says they have to remain at an allowable pressure throughout the game. In fact, even though the actual values are in dispute, it's pretty obvious from the Ideal Gas Law calculations that a decrease in temperature can account for at least some drop in psi. So if a ball is inflated to 12.5 psi and given the thumbs-up before game time, it would drop out of the allowable range as the game goes on and it gets colder. 

 

My bet is that the Pats have been doing something that doesn't violate the letter of the rule, just as Coach B said. Maybe inflating the balls with heated air before giving them to the refs to check? Maybe using a particular composition of "air"? Maybe causing something about the structure of the balls to be compromised, so that they will pass pre-game inspection, but get softer? 

[Tsuga]

That is true. It is also true that they ignore a lot of other penalties by them that they should be calling. The refs are careful to only call penalties on the Seahawks when they know it won't affect the outcome of the game. Sometimes it is just 5 yards for off sides or false start... or when the other team is going to decline the penalty anyway.

 

Anyone who believes that the NFL refs don't play favorites is just kidding themselves or is a huge fan of a team that benefits from their partiality.

The stats directly contradict your claim though.

 

Are you saying that the refs favor the teams which are winning by giving them more penalties?

 

I'm talking numbers here. The numbers are clear.

 

Also, what would cause a group of refs to change favorites every few years? Because being the most penalized team changes over time.

 

We have had our crappy years here in Seattle.

[KungFuPanda]

Are the really calling this "Deflategate?"

[Tsuga]

Are the really calling this "Deflategate?"

Unfortunately yes.

[unsinkable]

Are the really calling this "Deflategate?"

It is so funny how "gate" is added to a scandal and "athon" is added to an activity based on time or distance (bike-a-thon or read-a-thon.)

[Tsuga]

Creative suffixes... English is a beautiful language.

[1bassoon]

Our vet has a sign outside their office:

 

Be a Patriot.

Balls deflated here.

Neuter now.

 

 

:hurray: :lol:

 

(Kinda hoping it goes viral on Facebook)

[musicianmom]

The local "men's health" clinic wasted no time in using this to punny advantage in a new radio ad. I never heard so many double entendres in so short a time.

[Tsuga]

Well, looks like some people have been vindicated:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/30/sports/football/deflation-experiments-show-patriots-may-have-science-on-their-side-after-all.html

[poppy]

Science says: cold deflates balls. 

 

No, each team uses its own balls.

 

Yes, the officials should have noticed.

 

There was some other writer/analyst who had time on his hands, who analyzed the Patriots' fumble rate compared to other teams over the past 10 years. Since 2007 it is MARKEDLY lower than other teams' fumble rates. Something that would be statistically highly unlikely by chance. (Unless you want to believe that Belichick "coaches" his players not to fumble) That's another hallmark of a ball that has likely been deflated, that it's easier for running backs (and wide receivers) to hang onto.

 

So it's likely that the Cheating Game dates back that far.

 

No, it's not markedly lower than other teams'.  It is markedly lower than  league average. There are other teams (Saints  and Falcons) with a record that is similar.  But haters gonna hate hate hate the Pats.

[Colleen]

I've watched ALL 32 teams play.  Sorry, but I know what I'm talking about.  Not very many people pay as close attention as I do to football.  Most people just watch to see who is scoring and don't really watch the other aspects of the game. 

 

Fortunately, I'm not "most people". The attentiveness with which I follow sports in general and football in particular borders on the embarrassing.  Pretty sure Dan Patrick et al need to create some room in their man cave for women who know at least as much about the game as they do. ;-D

[DragonFaerie]

Here's a question I've not seen addressed.  If the footballs were low in pressure due to weather conditions, why were only the Pat's footballs affected?  Why did the weather not affect the Colts' footballs?  Or the extra 12 balls used for kicking?  Seems to me like the weather would have affected ALL of the balls in similar fashion.

[MyThreeSons]

Well, looks like some people have been vindicated:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/30/sports/football/deflation-experiments-show-patriots-may-have-science-on-their-side-after-all.html

 

The graphic with calculations shows 89.3 degrees Fahrenheit. I don't believe a locker room or the officials' room is kept at almost 90 degrees!

[MyThreeSons]

Here's a question I've not seen addressed.  If the footballs were low in pressure due to weather conditions, why were only the Pat's footballs affected?  Why did the weather not affect the Colts' footballs?  Or the extra 12 balls used for kicking?  Seems to me like the weather would have affected ALL of the balls in similar fashion.

 

I have been asking the same thing. I have seen conflicting reports, though, on whether anyone tested the Colts' footballs at halftime that day.

 

If the Colts' started out near the top of the range and dropped less than 1 psi, they would still be in range. The Pats' could have started towards the bottom of the range, and then when they lost about the same amount of pressure, they would fall out of spec.

[MyThreeSons]

Something that I find fascinating is this: 

 

People who are Patriots fans say that this is just one more case of "haters" picking on the Pats because they're jealous of their success, that the Pats are *always* accused of things, that the NFL brass has a vendetta against the Pats, etc.

 

People who dislike the Patriots say that, once again, the Pats are going to get away with something because they are golden boys of the NFL.

 

Very few people who are football fans are neutral when it comes to the Patriots --- people either love them and think they can do no wrong, or they dislike them and think they are cheaters.

[DragonFaerie]

Something that I find fascinating is this: 

 

People who are Patriots fans say that this is just one more case of "haters" picking on the Pats because they're jealous of their success, that the Pats are *always* accused of things, that the NFL brass has a vendetta against the Pats, etc.

 

People who dislike the Patriots say that, once again, the Pats are going to get away with something because they are golden boys of the NFL.

 

Very few people who are football fans are neutral when it comes to the Patriots --- people either love them and think they can do no wrong, or they dislike them and think they are cheaters.

 

I am new to watching football and so had no opinion at all of the Pats.  But, an acquaintance really dislikes them, and when I asked him why, he told me they were cheaters but didn't elaborate.  This was before all this stuff about the under-inflated footballs came out.  Once this story broke, my friend told me about other instances of their cheating (something about spying on another team, I think it was, among other things).  It sounds to me, as a completely uninvolved new-to-the-sport fan, that the Pats have a history of cheating or, at the very least, using underhanded tactics.  Which I suppose now puts me squarely in the "dislike them and think they are cheaters" camp.

[MyThreeSons]

One thing I just found out yesterday: Tom Brady was one of two quarterbacks who pushed the NFL for a rule change in 2006 that would allow QBs to submit footballs they had groomed for approval, rather than just using balls supplied by the league. This makes Brady's statement last week that he didn't pay attention to the balls once the game started very suspect. 

 

I still think that both Coach Belichick and Tom Brady chose their words very carefully so as to not lie. 

[DragonFaerie]

One thing I just found out yesterday: Tom Brady was one of two quarterbacks who pushed the NFL for a rule change in 2006 that would allow QBs to submit footballs they had groomed for approval, rather than just using balls supplied by the league. This makes Brady's statement last week that he didn't pay attention to the balls once the game started very suspect. 

 

I still think that both Coach Belichick and Tom Brady chose their words very carefully so as to not lie. 

 

Well, that is definitely suspicious.  And I agree about the carefully chosen words, too.  And in light of their history, I have little doubt that something sneaky was going on.  Whether it was out and out cheating, I don't know.  But even if it wasn't technically, it sounds borderline in any case. 

[Pawz4me]

CNN aired a segment last night on the Wilson football factory in Ohio, where all the NFL footballs are made.  The Wilson people said there's absolutely no way the balls would lose pressure due to air temperature fluctuations.

[poppy]

Something that I find fascinating is this:

 

People who are Patriots fans say that this is just one more case of "haters" picking on the Pats because they're jealous of their success, that the Pats are *always* accused of things, that the NFL brass has a vendetta against the Pats, etc.

 

People who dislike the Patriots say that, once again, the Pats are going to get away with something because they are golden boys of the NFL.

 

Very few people who are football fans are neutral when it comes to the Patriots --- people either love them and think they can do no wrong, or they dislike them and think they are cheaters.

Well, the thing about the Pats is that they are very Slytherin. They are always looking for an angle. They follow the rules *barely*. They do tricky stuff. Like a play in a recent game that looked illegal to the other team (too many receivers on the field) but was by the book (the told refs that one of the receceivers was ineligible to catch). This out the other team at a huge disadvantage .... They have no play in the playbook to use against that. It was, Pats fans say, clever and cunning. It was, the rest of America says, cheating.

 

If you think football is about playing with brute strength and a good heart..... the Pats are not your dream team. But, they deliver. They are very, very good , even without tricky plays and questionable balls. New Englanders love 'em.

[DragonFaerie]

Well, the thing about the Pats is that they are very Slytherin. They are always looking for an angle. They follow the rules *barely*. They do tricky stuff. Like a play in a recent game that looked illegal to the other team (too many receivers on the field) but was by the book (the told refs that one of the receceivers was ineligible to catch). This out the other team at a huge disadvantage .... They have no play in the playbook to use against that. It was, Pats fans say, clever and cunning. It was, the rest of America says, cheating.

 

If you think football is about playing with brute strength and a good heart..... the Pats are not your dream team. But, they deliver. They are very, very good , even without tricky plays and questionable balls. New Englanders love 'em.

 

Thanks for the explanation.  I had heard something about the receivers thing, but being new to the sport, I didn't really understand it. I do understand your explanation, though. :)

 

[Tsuga]

I think the rules in football are so ad hoc it's hard to ask teams to take a "spirit of the law" approach. So I don't fault the Pats for playing the game according to the letter of the law.

 

I don't hate any teams. I love the Seahawks (and the Mariners and the Sonics and the Sounders and the Storm and the Reign) because it's the home team. Win or lose, I root for the home team. I feel jealous when we lose.  :o  Even though it actually has very little to do with me personally.

[Colleen]

Very few people who are football fans are neutral when it comes to the Patriots --- people either love them and think they can do no wrong, or they dislike them and think they are cheaters.

Eh, no, not the case. What you describe is true of groupies and bandwagon fans. Akin to Seahawks twelves who play into the 49ers rivalry - unaware that no such rivalry existed years ago, when the two teams weren't even in the same division.

 

Many - make that most - genuine followers of the game don't care one way or another about the Patriots or any other team. We have our allegiances, and beyond that we're in it for the game. We realize no franchise has a market on honesty or dishonesty. I've been tuned in to this game longer than most players & people in the head office have been alive. Long enough to realize teams don't have one immutable identity or character. Every franchise changes as people come & go and circumstances change.

 

I've loved the Hawks since their inception. But let's face it, they've morphed over the years - and most supporters are on a bandwagon. All of which is to say, I don't believe people either love or hate the Pats any more than they love or hate the next team.

[EmilyK]

Overll, Colleen, I agree with your posts on the football front (and elsewhere) and I concede you are more knowledgeable than I am on football. I've been a football fan for 40+ years but only lately come to the Seahawks. That said, I do think there are teams on the pro and college level that people tend to have strong opinions about. For me, it might be the Cowboys and to a lesser extent the Pats. My husband might expand it to include FSU. I wouldn't say it runs very deep for us -- more of a love to hate -- and doesn't stop us from being polite to the other side.

[MyThreeSons]

Eh, no, not the case. What you describe is true of groupies and bandwagon fans. Akin to Seahawks twelves who play into the 49ers rivalry - unaware that no such rivalry existed years ago, when the two teams weren't even in the same division.

 

Many - make that most - genuine followers of the game don't care one way or another about the Patriots or any other team. We have our allegiances, and beyond that we're in it for the game. We realize no franchise has a market on honesty or dishonesty. I've been tuned in to this game longer than most players & people in the head office have been alive. Long enough to realize teams don't have one immutable identity or character. Every franchise changes as people come & go and circumstances change.

 

I've loved the Hawks since their inception. But let's face it, they've morphed over the years - and most supporters are on a bandwagon. All of which is to say, I don't believe people either love or hate the Pats any more than they love or hate the next team.

 

Colleen,

 

We will just have to agree to disagree on this. What I see as a general dislike of the Patriots (unless it's a Pats fan) is obviously a fairly recent thing -- since the Belichick era. But in my circle, including online friends of real life friends, if a person cares about football at all, he either really likes or really dislikes the Patriots. 

 

On another note: As one who grew up in the San Francisco Bay Area, I'd say that today's 49ers - Seahawks rivalry pales in comparison to that of the Raiders - Seahawks. The Niners and Seahawks weren't even in the same conference, let alone the same division. 

[Tsuga]

But in my circle, including online friends of real life friends, if a person cares about football at all, he either really likes or really dislikes the Patriots.

 

 

In my circle it's Seahawks vs. everyone else, though. I believe you about your friends so believe me about mine.

 

Last night's ending was awful. I feel they thought the Pats would guess Lynch and wanted to surprise them... ugh. We felt sick about it all evening.

[JessReplanted]

Eh, no, not the case. What you describe is true of groupies and bandwagon fans. Akin to Seahawks twelves who play into the 49ers rivalry - unaware that no such rivalry existed years ago, when the two teams weren't even in the same division.

 

Many - make that most - genuine followers of the game don't care one way or another about the Patriots or any other team. We have our allegiances, and beyond that we're in it for the game. We realize no franchise has a market on honesty or dishonesty. I've been tuned in to this game longer than most players & people in the head office have been alive. Long enough to realize teams don't have one immutable identity or character. Every franchise changes as people come & go and circumstances change.

 

I've loved the Hawks since their inception. But let's face it, they've morphed over the years - and most supporters are on a bandwagon. All of which is to say, I don't believe people either love or hate the Pats any more than they love or hate the next team.

 

I am going to take a wild guess that you have never really spent much time in New England???

 

[Tsuga]

I am going to take a wild guess that you have never really spent much time in New England???

 

 

Contrary to popular belief in the northeast, a substantial proportion of the country actually exists outside of New England. :)

 

Obviously in New England there are strong feelings. I thought we were talking about the National FL.

[JessReplanted]

Contrary to popular belief in the northeast, a substantial proportion of the country actually exists outside of New England. :)

 

:svengo: You're kidding.

[Colleen]

I am going to take a wild guess that you have never really spent much time in New England???

 

I've traveled there on business & pleasure; have a number of very close friends who are natives to the region (including my lifelong Pats fan & college roommate), but only lived there briefly as a child. What's your point?

[Tsuga]

:svengo: You're kidding.

I know, right?

 

It's almost as if we had our own regional hang-ups. Like since the majority of people I know have lived here or at least on the west coast for several generations, the Raiders were the team to Hate or Not Hate (even if the 49ers briefly have taken their spot). Because no matter what they're ours and New England just seems very far away.

[JessReplanted]

Many - make that most - genuine followers of the game don't care one way or another about the Patriots or any other team.

 

 

I was responding to this line, and I just disagree. I grew up in New England, and those fans are crazy serious about their teams. I lived near Pittsburgh for almost 10 years, and Steelers fans are just as passionate about their team. And here in TX, there was not much excitement about yesterday's game - because their team was not in it.

 

[Colleen]

I was responding to this line, and I just disagree. I grew up in New England, and those fans are crazy serious about their teams. I lived near Pittsburgh for almost 10 years, and Steelers fans are just as passionate about their team. And here in TX, there was not much excitement about yesterday's game - because their team was not in it.

Ah, okay. So you misunderstood me. Absolutely, people here in Seattle are passionate about our team. Four years in New Orleans during the paper bag era assured me of their devotion to the (S)aints. Don't get me started about my long-suffering Cleveland Browns relatives, never wavering from their commitment to the team! My point rather was that aside from devotion to the hometown team & a handful of serious, longtime rivalries, most fans aren't anti-any one team. They're pro-their team and anti-whomever is on the other line of scrimmage each week.

[poppy]

I don't really agree with that.  Fans of the sport have teams they like dislike in general.  EVERYONE likes the Broncos.  Everyone likes the Packers and Cowboys (kills me to say that, I hate Dallas).   Unpopular teams are....... well it varies by region, but none of the teams formed in the past 30 years have a lot of support nationally.  GOOOO Texans? Panthers? No.

 

And saying people only hate the Pats during the Belichick era.....sure, but, that's the past 15 years.

[Tsuga]

I don't really agree with that.  Fans of the sport have teams they like dislike in general.  EVERYONE likes the Broncos.  Everyone likes the Packers and Cowboys (kills me to say that, I hate Dallas).   Unpopular teams are....... well it varies by region, but none of the teams formed in the past 30 years have a lot of support nationally.  GOOOO Texans? Panthers? No.

 

And saying people only hate the Pats during the Belichick era.....sure, but, that's the past 15 years.

 

I don't understand how you can disagree with traits that we are attributing to ourselves.

 

We're telling you, people around here really, truly don't give THAT MUCH of a hoot about the Broncos or the Patriots. There are a few obsessive individuals who care about random stuff like that. Other football fans don't.

 

Are you telling us we don't know what we ourselves feel about the Patriots? How could you possibly have such knowledge?

[Colleen]

I don't really agree with that. Fans of the sport have teams they like dislike in general. EVERYONE likes the Broncos. Everyone likes the Packers and Cowboys (kills me to say that, I hate Dallas).

Oh, my good grief! Claiming that EVERYONE likes the Broncos & Cowboys (Dallas?! surely you jest!) is proof positive that likes & dislikes are a product of region, whim, and team make-up at a given point in time. In my lifetime, there's been one commonly held opinion across all sports and corners of the map: everyone loves to hate the Yankees (Yankee fans excepted, obviously).

[poppy]

I don't understand how you can disagree with traits that we are attributing to ourselves.

 

We're telling you, people around here really, truly don't give THAT MUCH of a hoot about the Broncos or the Patriots. There are a few obsessive individuals who care about random stuff like that. Other football fans don't.

 

Are you telling us we don't know what we ourselves feel about the Patriots? How could you possibly have such knowledge?

 

I was speaking in general about football fandom.  Is that not what we're doing?  I don't know what YOU think, personally, of course.

[poppy]

Oh, my good grief! Claiming that EVERYONE likes the Broncos & Cowboys (Dallas?! surely you jest!) is proof positive that likes & dislikes are a product of region, whim, and team make-up at a given point in time. In my lifetime, there's been one commonly held opinion across all sports and corners of the map: everyone loves to hate the Yankees (Yankee fans excepted, obviously).

 

Google says polls agree with me: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/10/14/poll-finds-broncos-surpass-cowboys-as-nfls-most-popular-team/

 

I don't like Dallas, personally. I came of age when  a whole bunch of Coyboys were accused of sexual assault and it's always tainted my view of them. The current team is probably a bunch of earnest, kind men (in comparison?) but impressions like those last a long time.

 

[MyThreeSons]

This poll backs up what I originally said: http://www.syracuse.com/superbowl/index.ssf/2015/01/super_bowl_2015_poll_new_england_patriots_hated_nfl_team_seahawks_cowboys.html

 

 

[FaithManor]

I can tell you that for my region of Michigan, the google poll is at least true. There really is widespread, vocal, anti-pat sentient out there in the general public and now, well, people are practically in a state of abject mourning over that Seahawk endzone 1/2 yard line pass. There is a heartsickness about it, and that says a lot because A. we only have the Detroit Lions which is a whole 'nother set of love/hate relationship right there so we are used to such incredibly atroicious plays and B. this region is NOT a fan of the Seahawks, period. That my entire community was vocally FOR the Seahawks in this matter says volumes about how they feel about the Pats.

 

Of course, this is the home of Wolverine/Spartan madness which means there is general insanity here when it comes to football. Possibly the opinions of the clinically out of their minds should not be taken seriously, LOL! (No joke. During the 2013 Rosebowl, there were U of MI supporters who rooted for Stanford over MSU just because it's MSU. Forget any loyalty to our fair state at all. I would expect the same from some Spartans were the situation reversed.) And the hate towards Ohio State has no bounds and to represent it as a number would require exponents of mind boggling proportion!