Is this normal 4yo behavior or are there issues that need to be dealt with?

[Country Girl]

I have really been conflicted about posting and asking about this. I hate to make an issue out of nothing and think this is probably just a stage that kids go through. However, I didn't deal with anything like this with my older ds and I have been known to ignore real problems before because I was afraid of making a big deal out of nothing. So.... I am here to ask for advice.

 

My 4.5 yo ds has a shoe and belt "issue". He never thinks his belt is tight enough even though it could be leaving marks on him. He used to have a real problem with his socks, he always felt they were falling down and would break down if he couldn't get them pulled up just right. We seemed to have fixed that by finally finding a brand/style that works for him. However, that was replaced by a shoe issue that is even more problematic. He used to have velcro shoes but he would try to tighten them so much that he would pull the straps past the point that the velcro could meet up and they wouldn't stay strapped at all. So I finallly bought him lace shoes. He can tie his own shoes but he can't tie them as tight as he would like. Therefore, he always asks me to tie them. He doesn't ask dh to tie them because he says "Dad doesn't tie them tight enough". The problem is that now he has started to say that even I don't tie them tight enough and he completely breaks down. He'll cry, yell, bang his fists on the floor, all in an attempt to try to get me to re-tie and re-tie until they are tight enough. Recently I have taken the stance that he needs to dress himself so he has to put his own belt on and off and he can make it as tight as he wants so long as he does it himself (he can't get it as tight as he used to try and make us so he isn't hurting himself). This seems to be working so far. So I decided to try something similar with the shoes. I said I would tie them once (and I stopped trying to tie them ultra-tight, I just tie as tight as I normally would tie my own) and if he didn't think it was good enough, he could re-tie them himself. This doesn't seem to be working very well.

 

The reason I even wonder if any of this is an issue is because the sock/shoe thing has been going on for the last 1.5 years and the belt issue for about 6 months. It also can cause him to have a complete meltdown and make him not want to go anywhere (even outside to play) because his shoes aren't tight enough.

 

So, is this normal? Is it a discipline issue that I need to make him obey or is there an issue that I need to be more sensitive about and work with him on? If so, how do we work with this to make it so it isn't an issue that interferes with life?

 

Thanks!

[abbeyej]

No, it doesn't sound like something you should ignore or try to "discipline" out of him to me. :( It sounds like either a sensory disorder or an anxiety disorder (like OCD) to me. Your pediatrician may or may not be helpful, but that's probably the reasonable place to start.

[dirty ethel rackham]

It sounds like a sensory processing issue to me. My son had "clothing issues" as well. A couple book recommendations: The Out of Sync Child and the Out of Sync Child has Fun. We also did some neurodevelopmental therapy through NACD. Now we have a happy, healthy, smiling 12 year old.

[Parrothead]

It sounds like my dd. I've never taken her to be diagnosed but I'm fairly certain she has one of the sensory disorders. The socks still have to be just right, tags have to be taken out of clothes.

 

It used to be worse, and seems to run in my family on my mother's side. It skipped me so it was a while before I could figure out what was wrong. By the time I did she was almost 6.

 

Her symptoms weren't anything that couldn't be worked with or around so it was no big deal for me. Some kids I've heard of have to go to occupational therapy.

 

Can your ds go beltless?

[Country Girl]

Thank you for the input. I'll look into sensory processing issues. I also appreciate the suggestions for resources of where to start looking.

 

Can your ds go beltless?

 

Yes, he can go beltless but only if he is wearing elastic band pants. So he is okay wearing his sport shorts without a belt but as soon as jeans are on, he needs that belt.

 

 

Thanks!

[JenParrish]

It sounds like a sensory processing issue to me. My son had "clothing issues" as well. A couple book recommendations: The Out of Sync Child and the Out of Sync Child has Fun. We also did some neurodevelopmental therapy through NACD.

 

I would also check with your pediatrician. They may be able to give you some advise and quick tips you can do to help immediately. -JEN P.

[Tracy in Ky]

It may be a sensory or OCD issue, but I have a quirky son too and I just go with it, kwim? I think most things like this are outgrown eventually, and usually these are small things to give into. Probably right now, if I were you, I would do what I can to help him be comfortable. I wouldn't make a big deal out of it. It will probably gradually disappear eventually. It may be replaced with other oddities, and you can deal with those when they come.

 

I have OCD and have since I was a very, very little girl. This may make me a little more relaxed in some areas with my own children's quirks--and both of them have little quirks :) My gentle suggestion right now is to relieve as much of his anxiety over these things as possible. Help him be comfortable, and please try to relax yourself. I know it is hard and takes a lot of energy on your part to deal with this. I really think he will be fine, and you will too.

 

Hugs,

Tracy

[Country Girl]

Tracy and Wendy,

 

Thanks for the reassurances that maybe I just need "to go with it". Like I said in my original post, I really don't want to be making a mountain out of a molehill but I also don't want to be ignoring an issue that needs to be dealt with. I'm going to try and take a look at some of the books that were suggested just to give me an idea of how *I* may be able to help him with this problem. But I think for now I'm going to operate on the premise that it is just a "quirk" that we need to work through and not turn it into a diagnosis that needs treatment.

 

Thanks for the advice everyone and I'm still open to thoughts and suggestions anyone may have for me.

[dirty ethel rackham]

I would also check with your pediatrician. They may be able to give you some advise and quick tips you can do to help immediately. -JEN P.

It depends on the pediatrician. Some are knowledgeable and helpful. Ours told me that I was babying him, holding him too much and giving in to tantrums. She said I just needed to ignore him and he would learn to stop. We changed to a family practice doc. But, many docs just aren't trained to pick this stuff up.

[Ottakee]

I agree with seeing the doctor and asking about OT for sensory issues. You might also want to ask the doctor to run a strep test (not the quick one) as PANDAS is a strep related OCD that occurs in kids exposed to strep (even with no sore throat/fever, etc). Once treated the OCD stuff goes away.

 

My nephew at 3 or 4 was TERRIBLE with his shirt never being tucked tight enough. My sister even tried a bigger onsie to see if that would work. We honestly were tucking in his shirt every minute or so. He got tested and treated for the strep and no more shirt issues.

[frogpond1]

and she probably stopped when she was about 10 and I explained foot binding in Ancient China and how devastating it was for girls. She seemed to understand and slowly we came out of it. She didn't do the belt thing, but shoes and socks had to be tourniquet level or she'd have a collapse. I bought her Gymboree socks, and shoes that would be tighter but couldn't be too tight. It was a terrible time and I just had to do the best thing just to survive. I had no idea she would be able to grow out of it.

[Alice]

Tracy and Wendy,

 

Thanks for the reassurances that maybe I just need "to go with it". Like I said in my original post, I really don't want to be making a mountain out of a molehill but I also don't want to be ignoring an issue that needs to be dealt with. I'm going to try and take a look at some of the books that were suggested just to give me an idea of how *I* may be able to help him with this problem. But I think for now I'm going to operate on the premise that it is just a "quirk" that we need to work through and not turn it into a diagnosis that needs treatment.

 

Thanks for the advice everyone and I'm still open to thoughts and suggestions anyone may have for me.

 

 

To me, one big difference between "quirky" and a "diagnosis" is how much the behavior is interfering with the child's life and with the family's life. If it's easy to just work around the behaviour and go about your day....it's a quirk. If it's a major issue that keeps him from enjoying his day to day activities and keeps the family on eggshells has a major impact on everyone...it's more than just a quirk.

 

I see a lot of kids with quirky behaviors or behaviors that I certainly think are consistent with various diagnoses (ADD, OCD, PDD, etc.), but whose families are not concerned and who are thriving.

 

I like to joke that everyone in medical school is OCD. I'm not trying to diminish the real problems someone with OCD can have and I hope I haven't offended anyone although I'm sure I have. :) But I do think you can have some of the same symptoms and learn how to work around them or with them. But if you have those symptoms to the point of it impacting your life negatively and the life of your family it's obviously now a problem.

 

Does that make sense?

[Tess in the Burbs]

he's 6.5 and we have sock, shoe and not tight enough pants issues too.

 

the sock and shoe thing I have learned to deal with. found socks he likes. and the shoe store people know when I come in with recently purchased shoes to let him try on shoes, then offer the ones we already bought and 99% of the time we leave with the ones he came in with ;)

 

pants are a daily issue. he wants them tighter than should be. I try to adjust the waist if it has the adjustable strap but sometimes don't but pretend I do, lol. I repeat myself daily that it's not supposed to leave marks on your belly. *sigh* it's hard sometimes.

 

it's a sensitivity issue and we just try to be patient. I have no intention to diagnose this. it's a quirk that we can deal with. it's irritating has heck some days. :tongue_smilie: but workable

[abbeyej]

To me, one big difference between "quirky" and a "diagnosis" is how much the behavior is interfering with the child's life and with the family's life.

... But I do think you can have some of the same symptoms and learn how to work around them or with them. But if you have those symptoms to the point of it impacting your life negatively and the life of your family it's obviously now a problem.

 

Does that make sense?

 

Yes, that certainly makes sense to me. When ds developed PANDAS, overnight he became this kid who couldn't function in the world. Couldn't read a paragraph without panicking that he had done something wrong, couldn't watch a movie, play with another child, get dressed, eat, *anything* without stopping to deal with the guilt and the worry and the panic that the sudden OCD brought on. He just couldn't live his life. *At* *all*.

 

That's pretty different than wanting all the cup handles to line up the same way, or only wearing pink socks on Tuesdays. ;)

 

It sounded to me like the OP's little boy was dealing with these behaviors to the point that it was indeed interfering with his life, his family's, and cause him to want to *hurt* himself in order to satisfy the compulsions... If that's not the case, then maybe it can be worked around. But if it is, it's worth trying to find ways to relieve him of that burden.

[Susan in TX]

No, it doesn't sound like something you should ignore or try to "discipline" out of him to me. :( It sounds like either a sensory disorder or an anxiety disorder (like OCD) to me. Your pediatrician may or may not be helpful, but that's probably the reasonable place to start.

 

:iagree:

 

Susan in TX

[Country Girl]

I agree with seeing the doctor and asking about OT for sensory issues. You might also want to ask the doctor to run a strep test (not the quick one) as PANDAS is a strep related OCD that occurs in kids exposed to strep (even with no sore throat/fever, etc). Once treated the OCD stuff goes away.

 

My nephew at 3 or 4 was TERRIBLE with his shirt never being tucked tight enough. My sister even tried a bigger onsie to see if that would work. We honestly were tucking in his shirt every minute or so. He got tested and treated for the strep and no more shirt issues.

 

 

I have never even heard of PANDAS but I looked it up. It seems like this is usually an issue when the symptoms have a sudden onset. I don't remember when this first started but it seems like it was more gradual so I don't think this is what we are dealing with. However, it is good to be aware in case this is something we need to rule out down the road.

 

Thanks for sharing.

[Country Girl]

I had no idea she would be able to grow out of it.

 

Thanks for offering hope. It is nice to hear from someone on the other side!

[Country Girl]

To me, one big difference between "quirky" and a "diagnosis" is how much the behavior is interfering with the child's life and with the family's life. If it's easy to just work around the behaviour and go about your day....it's a quirk. If it's a major issue that keeps him from enjoying his day to day activities and keeps the family on eggshells has a major impact on everyone...it's more than just a quirk.

 

I see a lot of kids with quirky behaviors or behaviors that I certainly think are consistent with various diagnoses (ADD, OCD, PDD, etc.), but whose families are not concerned and who are thriving.

 

I like to joke that everyone in medical school is OCD. I'm not trying to diminish the real problems someone with OCD can have and I hope I haven't offended anyone although I'm sure I have. :) But I do think you can have some of the same symptoms and learn how to work around them or with them. But if you have those symptoms to the point of it impacting your life negatively and the life of your family it's obviously now a problem.

 

Does that make sense?

 

Yes, this makes lots of sense. I guess that is why I'm kind of thinking that we should just try and work through it for now and skip the diagnosis. It does interfere a little but it is definitely something we can work with. I think I just need to go into it with the attitude that it is a quirk and not let it interfere or bother me so much and we'd probably all be happier :001_unsure:

 

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

[Country Girl]

he's 6.5 and we have sock, shoe and not tight enough pants issues too.

 

the sock and shoe thing I have learned to deal with. found socks he likes. and the shoe store people know when I come in with recently purchased shoes to let him try on shoes, then offer the ones we already bought and 99% of the time we leave with the ones he came in with ;)

 

pants are a daily issue. he wants them tighter than should be. I try to adjust the waist if it has the adjustable strap but sometimes don't but pretend I do, lol. I repeat myself daily that it's not supposed to leave marks on your belly. *sigh* it's hard sometimes.[/Quote]

Wow, our kiddos do sound like they are going through the same thing. It is nice to hear from someone else who is dealing with this and can understand what I'm talking about. Your comment about pretending to adjust the pants made me laugh since we do the same thing here!:lol:

it's a sensitivity issue and we just try to be patient. I have no intention to diagnose this. it's a quirk that we can deal with. it's irritating has heck some days. :tongue_smilie: but workable

 

I also know what you mean about how irritating it is. But I think I am finding peace with the same conclusion that you have come to.... that we won't diagnose this and we'll just deal with it. Thank you for sharing, you really helped me feel better about this.

[abbeyej]

I have never even heard of PANDAS but I looked it up. It seems like this is usually an issue when the symptoms have a sudden onset. ...

 

Yes, absolutely. Typical juvenile OCD comes on more slowly and waxes and wanes over time. PANDAS comes on very suddenly and severely.

[Cindyg]

Yes, he can go beltless but only if he is wearing elastic band pants.

 

If he's your oldest boy, you may not know that after about age six, it's impossible to find pants (aside from sportswear) with an elastic waist. And if he grows tall, it's impossible to find tight waisted pants that are long enough. (IOW, you have to buy pants that are too small to get the tight waist, and then they are ridiculously too short. If you buy pants that are long enough, they'll be too big in the waist.)

 

I suggest an evaluation with an occupational therapist.