Sdel Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 *begin vent* It is not appropriate to discipline a 19 month old for age appropriate 'autonomy' behavior. Pushing you away, saying 'no', refusing to follow commands IS appropriate behavior. No, I won't discipline a 19 month old for this type of behavior because you don't understand age appropriate behavior. And I don't care if you get bent out of shape over it because, "your the parents." And you were very rude to engage in your grousing in my home within my earshot, but its okay, because I know you don't really want to be parents, you just want to be victims. *end vent* Sorry, very frustrating visitation tonight.... Stefanie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 I totally agree, but I suppose not everyone thinks of this. We were at my godchild's house and he, being three and having missed nap time, was rather rambunctious. I think his mom wanted me to scoop him up and hug him into snuggling to sleep, but I asked him for a hug and he said no. I told her I didn't want to teach him he didn't have the right to say no to touches and she gave me this totally wide eyed look like she never thought of that before and replied, "I guess you're right. That's a good point." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wendyroo Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 *begin vent* It is not appropriate to discipline a 19 month old for age appropriate 'autonomy' behavior. Pushing you away, saying 'no', refusing to follow commands IS appropriate behavior. No, I won't discipline a 19 month old for this type of behavior because you don't understand age appropriate behavior. And I don't care if you get bent out of shape over it because, "your the parents." And you were very rude to engage in your grousing in my home within my earshot, but its okay, because I know you don't really want to be parents, you just want to be victims. *end vent* Sorry, very frustrating visitation tonight.... Stefanie I'm sorry you had a frustrating visit. :grouphug: Pushing people is never acceptable in my home regardless of the age of the perpetrator. Do I expect a toddler to push people sometimes? Of course, but I discipline (teach/guide) for pushing each and every time to help them learn and grow. I certainly think some discipline methods are inappropriate (or simply ineffectual) for a 19 month old, but I think a complete lack of discipline simply because a behavior is "age-appropriate" can also cause problems. I also discipline for toddlers refusing to follow my instructions. If I tell them to stay seated in the bath tub, and they stand up repeatedly, then bath time is over, even if that makes them upset. Through gentle, consistent discipline they will start to understand cause and effect and the vitally important truth that they cannot always get their way. Wendy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sdel Posted November 23, 2014 Author Share Posted November 23, 2014 I wish that was all it was here.....but they have such a global unrealistic expectation of age appropriate behavior and his ability to understand across the board. Several times during their visit I heard them "discipline" for hitting. All I know is, the child doesn't hit, so I can only assume they were interpreting him pushing them away as "hitting". He doesn't bite. He's actually very well behaved in that way for a 19 month old and redirects very easily, but when he is upset, he *really* doesn't want you to touch him. But there is a reason why we are his guardians...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sdel Posted November 23, 2014 Author Share Posted November 23, 2014 I'm sorry you had a frustrating visit. :grouphug: Pushing people is never acceptable in my home regardless of the age of the perpetrator. Do I expect a toddler to push people sometimes? Of course, but I discipline (teach/guide) for pushing each and every time to help them learn and grow. I certainly think some discipline methods are inappropriate (or simply ineffectual) for a 19 month old, but I think a complete lack of discipline simply because a behavior is "age-appropriate" can also cause problems. I also discipline for toddlers refusing to follow my instructions. If I tell them to stay seated in the bath tub, and they stand up repeatedly, then bath time is over, even if that makes them upset. Through gentle, consistent discipline they will start to understand cause and effect and the vitally important truth that they cannot always get their way. Wendy I don't consider those things discipline....those are guidance/redirection/removal in order to teach self control and proper behavior. Safety related commands are always enforced immediately and at this age I don't wait to see if he'll comply on his own, I do it for him. Discipline is time out/spanking/other consequence such as additional chores, all of which I consider inappropriate at this time. His parents don't. They want us to spank for him pulling away or grabbing things or expressing his autonomy and desires for personal space. They were spanking (hand and diaper though not hard) him for grabbing when he was 6 months without doing any set up in order for him to be successful at *not* grabbing. They want us to discipline him for saying 'no' or turning away from hugs/kisses/tickles or invites to play. Honestly, the kid is pretty freaking well behaved for 19 months and follows commands well, even if sometimes it takes a little cajoling. He isn't the toddler that goes around hitting, biting, and pushing the other kids over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Sounds like a complicated situation. I do believe a 19mo in a stable family situation can be appropriately disciplined for such behavior (depending on the child's personality and intelligence). I wouldn't make a blanket statement the child's behavior is appropriate at that age. But from what you've said above, it sounds like you're in a better position to judge that than the parents. Sad and yucky situation. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 But to clarify, my definition of "discipline" seems to be different from theirs .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 We had a situation last week where my friend and her toddler were essentially kicked out of a cave tour because the toddler might misbehave later. Luckily they got to see the first chamber and got a refund, but if tots aren't welcome, say so on your website so we all know before we drive all the way out to see. :mad: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davysmom Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 I don't consider those things discipline....those are guidance/redirection/removal in order to teach self control and proper behavior. Safety related commands are always enforced immediately and at this age I don't wait to see if he'll comply on his own, I do it for him. Discipline is time out/spanking/other consequence such as additional chores, all of which I consider inappropriate at this time. His parents don't. They want us to spank for him pulling away or grabbing things or expressing his autonomy and desires for personal space. They were spanking (hand and diaper though not hard) him for grabbing when he was 6 months without doing any set up in order for him to be successful at *not* grabbing. They want us to discipline him for saying 'no' or turning away from hugs/kisses/tickles or invites to play. Honestly, the kid is pretty freaking well behaved for 19 months and follows commands well, even if sometimes it takes a little cajoling. He isn't the toddler that goes around hitting, biting, and pushing the other kids over. You have to define terms. I most certainly"discipline" for those behaviors. Discipline is systematic ongoing training. I would most certainly discipline unwanted behavior no matter the age. What you are talking about is what I call punishment. Discipline in our house is training, redirecting, etc. Punishment is the consequences that follow discipline as needed when appropriate. And yes lots of people don't understand how kids develop, and they put unrealistic expectations on them. Or sometimes the opposite in underestimating them. It is frustrating.It is hard to watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davysmom Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Dictionary.com defines discipline as training to act in accordance with rules.Activity that...develops a skill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldberry Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Agree with the others...sounds like what you are doing I would call discipline (which I don't consider negative, but training.) and what parents are asking for I would call punishment, which I agree isn't appropriate for what you are describing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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