Is HS Physics moving from Calculus based to Algebra based?

[AppleGreen]

A friend and I were discussing science for next year, and she said she was told there was a movement to replace Calculus based Physics with Algebra based Physics. I had not heard this and was curious about the accuracy. FWIW, my child will only be in 9th grade next year, so I am not planning on having him take Physics. She is considering it for her child, although her child will not begin Algebra until next year and is not (at this time) interested in a STEM field, so she isn't sure her child will get much out of the class.

 

Thanks for satisfying my curiosity.  :001_smile:

 

edited for word choice

[kiana]

Most HS physics classes haven't been calc-based anyway. 

 

There might be a move in some areas to teach ap physics B instead of ap physics C, but not a global one that I've heard of.

[Pegs]

Physics in Australian highschools is algebra based. Calculus isn't taught until years 11 and 12, and not everyone takes the mathematics subjects which would cover it anyway. From memory, the only mathematics required for yr 11 and 12 physics would be solving simple linear equations; Pythagoras and some basic trig, for calculating vectors; and I guess just being confident with arithmetic - working with fractions, scientific notation, etc.

 

It's a great course for accelerated, younger students who'd like something more than Conceptual Physics. We actually used the textbook as a supplement for our algebra based coursework when I took the classes. :)

[EmilyGF]

Are you referring to the physics first movement (which doesn't seem to be gaining much traction)?

 

The idea, I think, is to introduce physics as the basis for chemistry, then chemistry as the foundation for biology, and then to do biology, when it can be understood as a science and not just a bunch of random facts. 

 

(Not super familiar with the movement... just my very basic understanding.)

[regentrude]

Most highschool physics classes are algebra based. Very few students complete calculus in 11th grade and thus are able to take a calculus based physics course in 12th grade.

Calculus itself is not even offered in all high schools.

 

Now what she may be referring to is offering an algebra based physics course as the first high school science. That makes a lot of sense, because physics is the most basic of sciences and all systems must obey the laws of physics. Chemistry is an application of physics, and modern biology requires a lot of chemistrty, so phsyics-chemistry-biology makes more sense as a sequence.

The only reason schools traditionally begin with biology is the delayed math education in this country that has students not take algebra until 9th grade.

[EKS]

I think your friend is probably talking about the trend to do conceptual physics in 9th grade, but that is going from Algebra II/trig based to Algebra I based rather than from calculus based to algebra based.

[Riverland]

In public schools around here, kids take biology in 9th grade.  10th and 11th are chemistry and physics, in no particular order.  Most kids in 10th and 11th grade have not already had calculus in order to take calc based physics.  Most kids never take calculus, for that matter.

 

 

I don't think high school calc based physics has ever been standard.

[MarkT]

very few high schools offer Calc based Physics - usually as the AP C class

[bettyandbob]

Agreeing with the others. I haven't seen a high school physics class that was calc based. My dd will take a second year of adv physics next year. I suspect that will be calc based but I haven't checked. Dd is already taking calc so it won't be a concern that she has prerequisites.

 

The average high schooler doesn't get beyond precalculus so I'm not sure you could make high school physics calculus based.

[AppleGreen]

Excellent. Thank you all for clarifying. 

[MBM]

High schools that offer AP Physics C will typically offer algebra-based physics freshman year, chemistry sophomore year, biology junior year and then calculus-based physics senior year. At my son's high school a student may take calc-based physics while also taking calculus. Some kids do that, but they tend to struggle in certain areas of the physics class because they haven't learned the calculus yet.

[mjbucks1]

I am wondering if she is referring to the fact that the AP Physics tests have been changed.  Kids used to be able to take AP Physics B (algebra based) in one year.  Now the test is broken up into AP Physics 1 and 2. I am assuming most schools will take two years to teach algebra based AP Physics.  If algebra based physics was a prerequisite, this would preclude many kids from taking AP Physics C, even if their high school offered it.  Just a thought.

[In The Great White North]

 

 

I think your friend is probably talking about the trend to do conceptual physics in 9th grade, but that is going from Algebra II/trig based to Algebra I based rather than from calculus based to algebra based.

 

A new twist on this, is that some colleges are questioning whether the conceptual physics in 9th grade will "count" as high school physics.  I have heard of at least one case (from a public school) where it was rejected.

 

Obviously, this only matters to colleges that actually require physics in the first place, which isn't many.

[G5052]

My high school had both.  A fair number of students took calculus in 11th grade, so there was demand for every level.

 

My oldest is doing algebra-based physics in 12th with Hewitt's college-level book, and we're really enjoying it.  I chose that because we're doing our level best to finish trig and pre-calculus before graduation, and to me that is primary!