Ann.without.an.e Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 I am really not sure where to start... dd (10th grade) is math strong. She began the Advanced Mathematics book this year and was determined to finish it in one year so that she could take AP Calc next year (11th grade). She was hopeful to get a great score on the AP exam, thinking that it would look great on her transcript. The reality....she is spending forever on math each day. She is leaning toward taking the recommended 3-4 semesters to complete this book and maybe even adding in AP Statistics next year, but that would leave her with AP Calc in 12th. She is really torn because she wants a strong transcript but she is actually reconsidering her past desire to be a math major. She loves art, literature, and writing and spends her spare time reading blogs and books about how to write effectively. Math, which was once the direction she leaned toward because it was practical, is now feeling "in the way" of what she actually adores. So does it really matter if she waits until 12th? She is a bit stressed about this decision :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiana Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 No! It will be fine. It will be much better to have AP calc in 12th grade with a 4 or 5 than AP calc in 11th with a 3 because she rushed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ann.without.an.e Posted November 7, 2014 Author Share Posted November 7, 2014 No! It will be fine. It will be much better to have AP calc in 12th grade with a 4 or 5 than AP calc in 11th with a 3 because she rushed. I pondered that too - her grade might be stronger if she waits. Also, she could add in AP Stats next year while she finishes up the text, which will give her two AP math credits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiana Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 If that works for her that sounds like a great idea. Statistics is very useful for majors in every area as it helps you detect when people are using numbers to lie to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian (a lady) Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 I am really not sure where to start... dd (10th grade) is math strong. She began the Advanced Mathematics book this year and was determined to finish it in one year so that she could take AP Calc next year (11th grade). She was hopeful to get a great score on the AP exam, thinking that it would look great on her transcript. The reality....she is spending forever on math each day. She is leaning toward taking the recommended 3-4 semesters to complete this book and maybe even adding in AP Statistics next year, but that would leave her with AP Calc in 12th. She is really torn because she wants a strong transcript but she is actually reconsidering her past desire to be a math major. She loves art, literature, and writing and spends her spare time reading blogs and books about how to write effectively. Math, which was once the direction she leaned toward because it was practical, is now feeling "in the way" of what she actually adores. So does it really matter if she waits until 12th? She is a bit stressed about this decision :/ I do alumni interviews for a college with 80% STEM majors. AP Calc in 12th grade is great. There are a few kids that might be beyond that, but far more who don't make it to calc at all. I would have no problem with a candidate who had already done AP Stats and is currently enrolled in AP Calc. My impression was that this is a student who is continuing on with challenging math, even though she'd already done AP Stats. Another thought is to look at cc offerings. She could take two semesters of precalculus then roll into calc at the cc. Obviously this would depend on scheduling and cc quality. I'm not sure I'd encourage someone to major in something that they didn't enjoy but felt was practical. That's not to say follow your heart and enthusiasms. Many enthusiasms are not worth paying college tuition prices to explore. [i have an English degree. I know far more people who have experience in other fields who are successful writers than people who earned writing or fine arts degrees who went on to become best selling authors.] On the other hand, I've seen with my own son that there was a renewed enthusiasm and confidence in math once I got him into a setting with a math prof and regular classroom sessions. Even though he does all of his homework online and is doing a lot of exploring to teach himself the material, there are still 3 times a week where he is getting a lecture, explanations, worked problems and questions answered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JanetC Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 She does need a "highlight item" in 11th grade for her transcript or college app -- something that shows a bit of passion or academic potential. Whether that's an AP math score, an AP in a different subject, a fabulous service project, winning a writing contest or music award, or something else... the point is that there are MANY MANY ways to have a strong application. Far more than I have listed. AP Calc is one of those choices. But, yes, those early application deadlines come in November of senior year, so your "highlight item" needs to be done junior year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 In my part of Michigan, it's the rare kid that makes it to calc. 85% of students do not even take pre-calc and end with algebra 2. Middle boy may make it to Calc 2, he stands a good chance, as does his younger brother, but that is rare and certainly not something that schools want to rush kids into by any stretch. My current senior's highlight item is winning the presentation competition at Team America Rocketry Challenge last May. I am so grateful for that because with his head injury in the accident this past July, we needed to drop his AP calc aspirations in favor of non AP stats and some pre-calc review. He'll get a semester of calc since he is doing better, but we'll be taking it very slowly...no rush to testing or credit. He is majoring in Creative Writing and Journalism, minoring in archaeology/anthropology so for him, this will not look be a ding. The greater picture in all of this is not college applications, though we all get caught up in that hectic, wicked game making it hard to keep perspective, but mastery of skills. I don't like to see kids rushed so hard through math in pursuit of competitive transcripts, that they are not confident mathematicians. Better to be a great algebraic and pre-calc students, than a flimsy calc student who got there by the skin of the teeth so to speak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 I agree with the others that AP Calc in 12th grade is just fine. Re. her major, something to consider--math is hard because you start so late. Arithmetic is all you have until algebra 1. So at the calc level she is still learning the first few serious math topics. Whereas, the analogy to arithmetic in literature is learning your letters, phonics, and fluency in reading. From there you take off into literary analysis and original work, fairly early. So she is at an age where inherently literature is at an easy, pleasurable level, but math is at a difficult one. It's not because she hates math, but rather because she hasn't gotten to the same point in it as she has in literature. I would encourage her to stick with it. We need more STEM peeps (like me!) who can also enjoy literature and think through ethics, etc. Also, in my case, I loved to read so much that I knew I would do it no matter what, but I wasn't going to learn STEM on my own, so I stayed with it partially to be well-rounded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orthodox6 Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 How on earth could that appear "weak"? Not many students take high school calculus in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G5052 Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 I don't see any problem with AP Calculus in 12th. As others have said, most don't make it that far. I'm a STEM professor, but both of my kids dislike math despite always having high 90th percentile test scores in standardized testing and pre-college testing. So I expect hard work and at least pre-calculus by graduation. I'd much rather have them really, really solid through pre-calculus than to rush to calculus. One of mine did Algebra I twice because I wasn't happy with the first time through, and I have no regrets about that. The second one is having some problems with Algebra II, so we're going a little slower. And that's fine too. I'm secretly hoping that college math will turn them around, but ultimately they are going to have to figure it out. It turned me around after having a no-good, nasty calculus teacher in high school who turned me off from math. I fell in love with math again when I took business statistics, and I ended up changing schools and majors. I love literature and history too, but I had to give that up when I transferred to a STEM college and had to pack my schedule with that in order to graduate in a reasonable amount of time before I ran out of $$$. My father went to Reed College and then did STEM graduate school. In retrospect, I wish that I had been able to do that, because that balance is more where my heart and work are now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 I am really not sure where to start... dd (10th grade) is math strong. She began the Advanced Mathematics book this year and was determined to finish it in one year so that she could take AP Calc next year (11th grade). She was hopeful to get a great score on the AP exam, thinking that it would look great on her transcript. The reality....she is spending forever on math each day. She is leaning toward taking the recommended 3-4 semesters to complete this book and maybe even adding in AP Statistics next year, but that would leave her with AP Calc in 12th. She is really torn because she wants a strong transcript but she is actually reconsidering her past desire to be a math major. She loves art, literature, and writing and spends her spare time reading blogs and books about how to write effectively. Math, which was once the direction she leaned toward because it was practical, is now feeling "in the way" of what she actually adores. So does it really matter if she waits until 12th? She is a bit stressed about this decision :/ Oh my! Mine did that in THIRD GRADE! Just teasing you! ;) It will be FINE, and impressive even. Lots of (humanities)kids never even get to Calculus! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ann.without.an.e Posted November 7, 2014 Author Share Posted November 7, 2014 How on earth could that appear "weak"? Not many students take high school calculus in the first place. I have always HS'ed and I have no idea what the norm is for PS. I know it is nothing like when I was in school and I am not that old. When I was in school students didn't take any AP classes until 12th and now they take them in 9th/10th. Granted, I think they have watered them down and no one actually intends to take the exams in May :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawthorne44 Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Isn't Discovery Mathematics impressive? She could put "Discovery Mathematics Chapters 1 - X" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle_NC Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Can you break the Advanced Math into two courses to recognize that it's a 4 semester course? Like maybe Advanced Math and Pre-Calculus? or Advanced Math I and II? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G5052 Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Can you break the Advanced Math into two courses to recognize that it's a 4 semester course? Like maybe Advanced Math and Pre-Calculus? or Advanced Math I and II? I don't always agree with Art Reed, but we use his course titles. Year 1 is called "Geometry with Advanced Algebra," and then year 2 is "Trigonometry with Pre-Calculus." I've considered dropping the "with Advanced Algebra" to be more conventional, but at this point it really doesn't matter. He recommends at least 1 1/2 years for Advanced Math, and 2 years for most students. Colleges are expecting Geometry, Trig, and Pre-Calculus. I wouldn't call them anything much different than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian (a lady) Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 I don't always agree with Art Reed, but we use his course titles. Year 1 is called "Geometry with Advanced Algebra," and then year 2 is "Trigonometry with Pre-Calculus." I've considered dropping the "with Advanced Algebra" to be more conventional, but at this point it really doesn't matter. He recommends at least 1 1/2 years for Advanced Math, and 2 years for most students. Colleges are expecting Geometry, Trig, and Pre-Calculus. I wouldn't call them anything much different than that. I love the idea of renaming the course(s) to something more typical. I don't think Advanced Mathematics has a standard meaning. You can search for the name of your local district and course catalog to see some sample course descriptions. On course having said that some of the local districts are moving to integrated math under Common Core and I no longer have a clue what course scope and sequence is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ann.without.an.e Posted November 8, 2014 Author Share Posted November 8, 2014 Can you break the Advanced Math into two courses to recognize that it's a 4 semester course? Like maybe Advanced Math and Pre-Calculus? or Advanced Math I and II? I don't always agree with Art Reed, but we use his course titles. Year 1 is called "Geometry with Advanced Algebra," and then year 2 is "Trigonometry with Pre-Calculus." I've considered dropping the "with Advanced Algebra" to be more conventional, but at this point it really doesn't matter. He recommends at least 1 1/2 years for Advanced Math, and 2 years for most students. Colleges are expecting Geometry, Trig, and Pre-Calculus. I wouldn't call them anything much different than that. I love the idea of renaming the course(s) to something more typical. I don't think Advanced Mathematics has a standard meaning. You can search for the name of your local district and course catalog to see some sample course descriptions. On course having said that some of the local districts are moving to integrated math under Common Core and I no longer have a clue what course scope and sequence is. I do not call it Advanced Mathematics on the transcript, no worries. I was going to split it into a half credit of Geometry (the other half was last year) and a whole credit of trig with pre-cal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 In a word--no. AP math courses in senior year are not weak. I've seen a few schools express a preference (a preference but not a requirement) for AP Calc over AP Stats but never one that would ding Stats as a junior and Calc as a senior. Perhaps if she wants the strength to show on a transcript for college applications this would be the time to make sure that she is either taking a recognized AP course from a provider that is approved by College Board or submit a syllabus yourself for approval so that you may list the course on her transcript as AP Calc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ann.without.an.e Posted November 8, 2014 Author Share Posted November 8, 2014 In a word--no. AP math courses in senior year are not weak. I've seen a few schools express a preference (a preference but not a requirement) for AP Calc over AP Stats but never one that would ding Stats as a junior and Calc as a senior. Perhaps if she wants the strength to show on a transcript for college applications this would be the time to make sure that she is either taking a recognized AP course from a provider that is approved by College Board or submit a syllabus yourself for approval so that you may list the course on her transcript as AP Calc. I plan to submit a syllabus for the course. She is taking two AP courses this year using an approved syllabus. She may test for English this year but not as an approved syllabus only because she threw it on me this week. We may need to list that one as Honors English with AP exam. She feels that with her reading level (almost perfect ACT score in reading) and the massive amount of extra curricular reading she does for English/writing she can probably use a prep book or two and whiz the AP Eng/Comp Exam. We'll see after she does a few sample tests? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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