mommymilkies Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 I understand what you are saying - and I agree with you to a point. I've watched my sister up close for too many years. it's the "I want you to give me what I want so I'm going to threaten to kill myself". she deliberately chose that to provoke a strong reaction. - remember, my father committed suicide, and had made previous unsuccessful attempts that she was aware of. (as you say, the extreme version of "I'm depressed because they cancelled my favorite show." or one girl that really irked me with "I'm an abused child because my parents said "no" to me." um, no. ) and sister, when actually held accountable for the expressions and faced getting immediate mental health help, does major backtracking because it *wasn't* serious. eyeroll. I've also had a friend who would make 'joking comments' about slitting her wrists, though she wasn't actually suicidal. she was VERY VERY stressed and feeling very overwhelmed and frustrated. I understand that too - because I've also been there. I didn't want to die, I wanted to inflict enough physical pain to deaden all the mental anguish I was struggling with. what I have since learned is mental/emotional stress - has the same effect upon the brain as depression. because I wasn't depressed, I didn't seek help (I was "just stressed") - and didn't even mention things to dh (who was also very, very stressed by outside circumstances.). It didn't help my dr. treated me like a hypochondriac. (I have friend's who also saw him at one time, and due to their own dissatisfaction with him they switched doc's too.) my bishop eventually sent me to his dr (as soon as he found out what was going on. he got me in that day.) when I was put on appropriate rx to stabilize the messed up chemistry, and that was when things immediately started getting better. :grouphug: You said what I meant much better than I could. I really wish mental illnesses (and I hate that term, btw, IDK why) were taken more seriously. The doctors who cry hypochondria...grrrrr they are part of the problem! I am so glad that you were able to find a better doctor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 :grouphug: You said what I meant much better than I could. I really wish mental illnesses (and I hate that term, btw, IDK why) were taken more seriously. The doctors who cry hypochondria...grrrrr they are part of the problem! I am so glad that you were able to find a better doctor. the brain is sooooo complex, and very poorly understood. sometimes it's structural, sometimes chemical, etc. mental illness doesn't encompass the whole range of possibilities, but I can't think of a better term. My friend's dd had a massive tumor that made her suicidal. her own dr mocked her when she mentioned severe headaches and it almost went undiagnosed. fortunately, another dr. examined her (after her last suicide attempt) and she failed her preliminary neurological exam so he ordered more tests. the consensus was without surgery to remove it - she would have been dead from the tumor itself within three months. She was immediately herself again after it was removed. my dd's bff is majoring in clinical psych - specializing in traumatic brain injuries. it's amazing how one small portion of the brain not working correctly can throw the whole thing off. based upon behaviors, they can actually determine which part of the brain is not working correctly. my brother took over my mother's care after he moved her up by him. since he doesn't believe in mental illness, she didn't see a psychiatrist while she was with him; despite being diagnosed schizophrenic and on medication for years. it was months before I figured that out. her condition had deteriorated, but at least she did respond to getting back on meds. at least in my doc's case (thank goodness he's retired) - I honestly think he was very poorly qualified, and anything he didn't understand (or could have a concrete test result for) he labeled as in the patient's head. I've one friend whose dd has a fairly serious chronic condition - he wouldn't even refer her to someone else. at least she's doing very well now. there's a reason medicine is called an "art". it's more than science. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybee Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 ETA: A part of me knows that I shouldn't even wade into these threads, that I need to do a better job of protecting myself from the hurt. But, the other part of me hopes that engagement will contribute to understanding. Putting a real face and a real story to something that another person has never experienced -- I mean, that has to help, right? It is helping. I am listening and learning. Thank you for taking the risk. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausmumof3 Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 I'm not trying to cause trouble here this is something I keep wondering about. Ok, so given that severe depression is an illness. If it is ok to end your life voluntarily to escape ongoing severe physical pain, why isn't it ok to do the same when people experience severe ongoing untreatable mental and emotional pain? Also, suicide seems to be viewed differently in Japanese culture where it is an honourable way out of disgrace. I am thinking Samurais etc. There are also records of people in various military situations that have committed suicide to avoid torture that could compromise their mission. I am wondering how that fits into the picture. Obviously mental illness is the most common cause now, but is it always the cause? I really don't want to minimise the suffering of those dealing with mental illness by asking these questions. I understand how real it is, and feel for those of you who experience it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 If it is ok to end your life voluntarily to escape ongoing severe physical pain, why isn't it ok to do the same when people experience severe ongoing untreatable mental and emotional pain? I don't think anybody is saying that it is "ok" for people to end their lives due to depression. What people are saying is that suicidal thoughts are a symptom of depression and we need to treat this symptom in a non-judgmental manner as one would any other symptom of a disease. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 :grouphug: You said what I meant much better than I could. I really wish mental illnesses (and I hate that term, btw, IDK why) were taken more seriously. The doctors who cry hypochondria...grrrrr they are part of the problem! I am so glad that you were able to find a better doctor. I wonder if "neurological illness" would be a better term. There are a variety of stigmas and negative associations attached to the term "mental illness". Think about how people use phrases like "going mental". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 I'm not trying to cause trouble here this is something I keep wondering about. Ok, so given that severe depression is an illness. If it is ok to end your life voluntarily to escape ongoing severe physical pain, why isn't it ok to do the same when people experience severe ongoing untreatable mental and emotional pain? Also, suicide seems to be viewed differently in Japanese culture where it is an honourable way out of disgrace. I am thinking Samurais etc. There are also records of people in various military situations that have committed suicide to avoid torture that could compromise their mission. I am wondering how that fits into the picture. Obviously mental illness is the most common cause now, but is it always the cause? I really don't want to minimise the suffering of those dealing with mental illness by asking these questions. I understand how real it is, and feel for those of you who experience it. Suicide in general is not viewed positively in Japan. In many cases, a person who commits suicide may not even have their ashes placed in the family crypt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBugs Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 So many of the terms that we use to describe these things--can we say brain illnesses?-- have a negative connotation. I guess that doesn't help. ... I was also thinking about the term manipulation, which also has a very negative connotation. No one wants to be thought of as a manipulator. In the case of someone who is suffering from borderline personality disorder (which I think is also a bad name for whatever this condition really is and very stigmatizing) they can "act out" for nurturance. What they really want is love. We may feel manipulated by this acting out because we are trying so hard and just at a loss, what more can we do? But the person suffering from this is really very, very hurt inside and probably only hurts more to be thought of as a manipulator. It doesn't help to ignore it and say it's just manipulation. It's a very desperate attempt to get something they need, even if they don't know what it is they need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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