Logic of English users - a couple questions for you

[SewingMom2many]

If you are using Logic of English, what are your curriculum plans after your child(ren) finish? I have one nearing the end Essentials and I plan to go through it a second time with the advanced list but I'm not sure what to do after that. I also have kids in Foundations A and C, and I'm wondering for them as well although I think she plans to continue on with Foundations into E and F maybe?  I know she has a program listed on her website as a suggestion of what to use after Essentials, but if I remember correctly the reviews for that were pretty mixed.

 

I'm also wondering if you use additional programs for Language Arts if your child is in Essentials. Do you feel like it's enough writing?  Do you add WWE or Brave writer or something else?  How about grammar? Do you stick with what's in Essentials or do you add something like Essentials in Writing or do you skip the grammar in Essentials and use something else entirely? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TKDmom]

I just started LoE Essentials. I'm curious what others say.

 

FWIW, I'm planning to have DS work through CAP's Writing and Rhetoric:Fable alongside LOE. Hopefully it won't be too much.

 

And he'll continue with Practice island for grammar practice. And maybe we'll read Sentence Island for fun.... Obviously I have way too many LA programs lying around shouting at me to use them. ;)

[lorisuewho]

I did LOE Essentials with my boys. When I began the program I thought I might go through a second time and cover the grammar and do the advanced lists. I think that plan would have been a good one.

 

What I wound up doing was moving them to a dictation spelling program. We study the dictation sentence, mark any difficult words in an LOE way for study purposes, they copy the sentence, and then later I dictate it to them. This has been a nice transition for us. What I didn't know when I started teaching Essentials is that it would teach ME how to teach spelling, so I feel confident teaching spelling without a manual now.

 

We have always done WWE at the same time. I mainly used Essentials to teach spelling and not for its other wonderful elements.

[atozmom]

We only do the spelling portion of Essentials. Last year we used it along with Winston Grammar and IEW SWI-A. This year we plan to go back through it with the advanced list. We will still be using IEW for writing and are going to give Fix-It grammar a try too.

[atozmom]

What I wound up doing was moving them to a dictation spelling program. We study the dictation sentence, mark any difficult words in an LOE way for study purposes, they copy the sentence, and then later I dictate it to them. This has been a nice transition for us. What I didn't know when I started teaching Essentials is that it would teach ME how to teach spelling, so I feel confident teaching spelling without a manual now.

 

 

This sounds very intriguing. If I may ask, what program are you using?

[kirstenhill]

With DD10, We went through Essentials twice (once with the regular lists, once with the advanced lists).  One drawback I found of the advanced lists is that she was analyzing/learning some relatively uncommon words (at least, uncommon for a 9 or 10 year old).  Her retention is dramatically improving as she gets older, and some of the more basic/common words we covered at the beginning of LoE (when she was toward the end of 2nd grade) were not retained.  I've decided to go through the lists in Spelling Plus/Dictation Resource Book with her for 5th, to make sure she is closer to having mastery of the most commonly used words.  We'll analyze them in LoE style.  We also did not do a lot of sentence dictation with LoE, so I want to do more of that this year.

 

We did the grammar in maybe the first 15 lessons or so of Essentials, but then it got to be too much for her at the time (keep in mind she was late 2nd/early 3rd grade).  We did Sentence Family and Grammar land in 3rd grade instead.  Then last year I thought i might do the LoE grammar, but just didn't feel the love for it. We did Grammar Island/Sentence Island instead. 

 

We did very, very few of the writing exercises in Essentials.  DD focused almost entirely on Spelling in 3rd (we did a few writing projects from Write On!).   Then last year we did the first two books of CAP's Writing and Rhetoric.  We are going to do a more intense grammar year this year with Hake/Saxon for grammar, and we are going to do Killagon Paragraphs for Elementary and at least one, if not 2 more books of W&R. 

 

DS7 is taking a bit more of a meandering path.  The LoE production schedule inhibited what might have been ideal path for him.  We started the LoE beta test of Foundations when DS7 was half way through K (after spending the fall doing phonics pathways and just learning some phonograms LoE-style that fall).  We went through nearly all of the Beta test lessons as written before he started 1st grade last fall.  This would have been through nearly all of what was covered in C, plus a tiny bit of what became D.   It was a real disappointment when the production of D was delayed, as it would have been perfect for him last year.  Instead, we started going through Essentials at about 1 lesson or so per week just doing the spelling (I think we made it through 26 lessons -- though we took a break before the end of the year), and then just doing reading practice with an assortment of books of his choice.  It was okay, but he wasn't retaining as much as I had hoped.  It was just not enough review and practice.  A more Foundations-like experience would have been much better.

 

I am still waffling about what to do next year for him.  He is definitely beyond the level of Foundations D in terms of reading, but  I have a feeling the spelling would still be about right.  But that is a more expensive option (though I suppose I would use it again later with the younger boys). We could start Essentials again at the beginning, but when I casually mentioned that idea, he balked at it (I think it made him feel like a failure to have to "start over" on the same thing).  I'm also considering Reading Lessons through Literature (but using it as a spelling program) or using the WRTR or SWR lists in the LoE style (even though it would cover similar material to LoE, it at least wouldn't be "starting over" in his mind). 

 

DS5 has mostly mastered the material in Foundations A except the handwriting.  So I am hoping to start his K year with some lowercase handwriting review, then move into Foundations B.  I am really hoping his progression through the LoE material works out more smoothly.  :-)

 

 

 

 

[lorisuewho]

This sounds very intriguing. If I may ask, what program are you using?

I looked at many dictation programs and my favorite by far has been a vintage text called The Modern Speller: Dictation Day by Day. We used it all last school year and we plan to use it again this school year. I like that it has graded levels. I like how it spirals words, and the passage lengths seem appropriate. It has been a good fit for us.

[atozmom]

I looked at many dictation programs and my favorite by far has been a vintage text called The Modern Speller: Dictation Day by Day. We used it all last school year and we plan to use it again this school year. I like that it has graded levels. I like how it spirals words, and the passage lengths seem appropriate. It has been a good fit for us.

 

This does look very intriguing! Thank you. What level did you start with. Off to see if our library has this.

[boscopup]

My 5th grader is doing Essentials basic list quickly, then we'll go back and hit the advanced list. After that, if he still needs spelling practice, I'll have him use R&S Spelling. I am sort of using the grammar with him, but I'm using other grammar and writing programs also (W&R, EIW, and sometimes Hake Grammar). I mainly use the grammar prions that help with spelling (like practicing making plural words). He does the composition exercises, but again, I consider that part of spelling.

 

My K'er and 2nd grader are also using Essentials. They simply aren't ready for much of the grammar. We've done the nouns/adjectives so they can make phrases in the composition section, but I tell them which words are nouns and adjectives. I don't expect them to figure it out on their own at this point. And when we get to things like direct objects, I won't bother with the grammar. Again, I'm using the program for spelling. These two children currently do not use a separate grammar or writing program. I don't think that's necessary for K, and my 2nd grader needs to get more confidence in reading and spelling first. I may do EIW1 with them second semester this year. We'll see. Again, just waiting for more spelling for the 2nd grader (the K'er could probably do it now - he's more of a natural speller). After Essentials with these two, I plan to go through it again with the advanced lists, then do R&S Spelling if they still need spelling. Essentials will likely take longer than a school year the first time. We've been averaging a lesson per week with these two, and I know we will probably need to slow down as we get further into it.

 

I didn't use Foundations, so I can't answer questions about that. I thought Foundations would be too easy for my K'er (advanced reader, very confident). Plus without the higher levels, I felt like Essentials would be more worth our time. I decided to save money and get one program that all 3 kids could use. It has gone well so far. We'll see how it goes long term for my 2nd grader. Going back to R&S Phonics and Reading is always an option for him.

[lorisuewho]

This does look very intriguing! Thank you. What level did you start with. Off to see if our library has this.

You can download it for free off of google books. It starts at the second grade level, and that is where I started my younger son last year. Since it is free, there is no commitment on where to start. Just look through it and start where it looks like it is a good match for your child.

 

I can't get the link feature to work to give a nice short link, but here is the long drawn out one:

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=-vIAAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=dictation+day+by+day+modern+speller+wagenen&hl=en&sa=X&ei=21bWU-SIBouryASykoCQBA&ved=0CDkQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=dictation%20day%20by%20day%20modern%20speller%20wagenen&f=false

[MamaSprout]

We went through the whole book last year- grammar and everything. We also did Lively Latin 1 at the same time. The two complimented each other well.

 

Next year we are doing all of Lively Latin 2- without the history- in place of grammar and vocab, and the Spellwell books for 5th grade (d and dd, I think).

 

The year after, we might do some intensive diagramming, and possibly the LoE higher level list and continue with Latin (probably Latin Via Ovid, unless BBLL3 is available). Dd learns as much language arts from Latin as she does any English program.

 

I really like LoE Essentials, but I know I paid $75, and I think it's more than that now. It's not worth $100, as good as it is.

[Coco_Clark]

I'm a bit in the same boat, except with Foundations.  Right now we are partway through C with my oldest.  We will finish D by the end of the year and I don't know where we will go from there.  The website USED to list E and F but hasn't for a few months now so I'm not even sure those book are in the works anymore.  Did you go from Foundations to Essentials?  I've never seen Essentials so I'm not sure if that would be "starting over" or its its meant to be picked up from a post Foundations D ability level.

 

We use Foundations along with with LLTL, and plan to continue to use that for copywork, dictation, narration for the foreseeable future.  I don't use the writing sections of LOE, its a phonics and spelling program for us.

 

 

[atozmom]

You can download it for free off of google books. It starts at the second grade level, and that is where I started my younger son last year. Since it is free, there is no commitment on where to start. Just look through it and start where it looks like it is a good match for your child.

 

I can't get the link feature to work to give a nice short link, but here is the long drawn out one:

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=-vIAAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=dictation+day+by+day+modern+speller+wagenen&hl=en&sa=X&ei=21bWU-SIBouryASykoCQBA&ved=0CDkQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=dictation%20day%20by%20day%20modern%20speller%20wagenen&f=false

 

Thank you!

 

[Roadrunner]

I didn't read everybody's responses, but here is our experience. We did Essentials last year with both my boys. We found spelling list too easy, but some words on advanced list a bit too much at times. I would have liked a "middle" lists, if one existed. I liked the rule based lessons, especially since coming out of PS, my kids didn't learn spelling that way. I didn't like grammar or writing instruction in the program. My older boy did just the spelling section and my younger DS did the most grammar exercises. DS1 used CAP and MCT writing, while DS2 used WWE and did written work from K12 lit. 

After much thinking, we decided to try Megawords. The plan is to go through all eight books and be done with spelling for good. 

[SkateLeft]

My older ds went through LOE in 6th grade. He was a good reader, but couldn't spell and that was really hampering his ability to progress with writing. So my priorities that year were to improve his spelling and get him writing. He didn't use a separate grammar program, but he did use Essentials in Writing. LOE was worth it's weight in gold for us! It was exactly what he needed. We did literature separately, since there is no lit component to LOE.

 

After LOE, I intended to roll him in to the LOE advanced lists, but we ended up giving Phonetic Zoo a try. That was too easy so after a few months, I put him into Apples and Pears Spelling. That's been fantastic.It's quick, easy, and his spelling has made huge strides. I don't worry about spelling as much anymore.

 

So he went from LOE + Essentials in Writing in 6th grade to Apples and Pears + IEW Student Writing Intensive B in 7th. When he finished IEW, I put him into Writing with Skill 1.

 

His 8th grade plan looks like this: Apples and Pears (until finished), WWS 1 (finish, then WW2), Analytical Grammar. Lit will continue to be separate.

[nansk]

 I know she has a program listed on her website as a suggestion of what to use after Essentials, but if I remember correctly the reviews for that were pretty mixed.

I see that she has recommended Dynamic Literacy on her blog. What were the negative reviews you read about that? I'm curious.

 

[dauphin]

That's Word Build, I think. I'd be curious too. I like the idea in theory!