Many Seniors Accepted To First-Choice Colleges Go Elsewhere

[Sunshine State Sue]

 

Many Seniors Accepted To First-Choice Colleges Go Elsewhere

 

[plansrme]

My daughter is a sophomore, but she is in a class otherwise comprised entirely of high school seniors in a STEM magnet.  She has classmates who have been accepted to Harvard, Yale, Stanford and CalTech, among others.  They are attending, respectively, U.Ga, Ga Tech, Ga Tech and Ga Tech.  Georgia's HOPE scholarship is just too irresistible, especially if you are an engineer.  I actually think high schoolers' making the decision to take costs into account is good news overall.  It reminds me of a conversation I had with a tile guy once when I was desperately trying to find a tile that had been discontinued.  He asked, "Can't you learn to love something else?"  As far as she can tell, each of these students is thrilled with his or her decision and is looking forward to college (even without the wise counsel of my tile guy).

 

 

[G5052]

Yes, I'm hearing the same locally.  The "dream" schools are becoming "reality" schools.  I think it is good that there's been so much press about the huge debts that some have piled up.  I realize that it is unavoidable in some cases, but why do that when there are good choices for less?

 

[Little Women]

It's the $$$, as another post has said.

 

[8filltheheart]

That has always been the reality for my kids. I am actually more surprised by the fact that for so many it hasn't been.

[creekland]

If you click on the actual report (linked in the article) there is a ton of info that is interesting to look through.  The actual stats start appearing on pg 24 of the report with an interesting to read summary coming before.

 

Some things I noted from the stats:

 

0.6 % of first year college students were homeschooled for high school.

 

29.5% of students went 100 - 500 miles from home.

16.9% went farther than 500 miles.

 

76.9% lived in college residence halls.

 

10.9% applied to only one college.

5.9% applied to 12 or more.

 

75.6% were accepted to their first choice school.

 

56.9% are attending their first choice school.

27.1% are attending their second choice school.

 

69.3% have both parents still alive and living together.

 

27.6% had no AP classes (6.5% because they weren't offered).

22.1% had 5-9 AP classes.

 

36.6% had Calculus of some sort (35.9%, so most of them, were AP)

 

22.3% consider themselves pre-med.

11.2% are some sort of engineering major.

7.6% are Bio majors

10.2% are undecided

 

22.2% expect no family contribution to costs.

11.0% expect less than $1000.

33.1% expect more than $10,000.

 

37.7% are contributing nothing themselves (from their own work, work study, savings, or other income).

26.4% are contributing less than $1000.

2.9% are contributing $10,000 or more.

 

27.1% have no grants/scholarships or other "no need to repay" aid.

31.5% have $10,000 or more.

 

49.2% have no loans of any sort.

12.8% have $10,000 or more.  (This is for freshman year only.)

 

72.7% frequently or occasionally attended a religious service.

38.3% were bored in a class.

23.5% demonstrated for a cause.

17.9% were a guest in a teacher's house.

2.2% smoked (would love it if this were an accurate stat, but I have my doubts).

35% drank beer (ditto)

40.6% drank wine or liquor.

33.1% felt overwhelmed by all they had to do.

8.9% felt depressed.

88.5% performed volunteer work.

30.9% asked a teacher for advice after class.

45.1% fell asleep in a class.

52.4% failed to complete a homework assignment on time.

80.5% consider themselves tolerant of others with different beliefs.

 

28.7% have a father with a college degree.

23.6% have a father with a graduate degree.

 

35% have a mother with a college degree.

20.3% have a mother with a graduate degree.

 

76.2% have a mother who is employed.

87.6% have a father who is employed.

 

52% believe affirmative action in college admissions should be abolished.

61.3% want a national health care plan.

72% believe the chief benefit of a college education is increased earning power.

 

46.3% consider themselves middle of the road politically.

27.7% consider themselves liberal.

21.2% consider themselves conservative.

2.8% consider themselves far left.

1.9% consider themselves far right.

 

86.3% are going to college to get a better job.

 

Ok, there's tons more - well worth clicking on and looking through for anyone interested, but I'm getting a little tired of typing!

 

There's far more than the article implies!

 

[8filltheheart]

Of all the stats you listed, I find this one the most interesting (and honestly, almost unbelievable.) 49.2% have no loans of any sort

 

If that stat is accurate, it means that the "avg student debt of $26-27000 at graduation" stat is very heavily skewed beyond the simple pt that it doesn't count parent loans. It really means that only 50% of college students are bearing ALL of massive student loan debt that we read about. Yikes!

[creekland]

Of all the stats you listed, I find this one the most interesting (and honestly, almost unbelievable.) 49.2% have no loans of any sort

 

If that stat is accurate, it means that the "avg student debt of $26-27000 at graduation" stat is very heavily skewed beyond the simple pt that it doesn't count parent loans. It really means that only 50% of college students are bearing ALL of massive student loan debt that we read about. Yikes!

 

Not really.  Every time I've seen that stat (the $26,000 avg debt) it only takes into account those who have debt.  It does not average in those without debt.  Those articles often have similar stats about the numbers without any debt.

 

It all matches.

 

And yes, this data doesn't include parents taking out loans.  That would just come in with the family contributions and how the family gets those $$ (savings, HE, or whatever).  For us, so far, our family contributions have come from our income.  I hope to be able to keep it that way.

 

[creekland]

Having a little time this morning, I just googled...

 

http://projectonstudentdebt.org/

 

Here's a study showing, of 2012 grads, 71% had some sort of debt and the average per borrower (only those with debt) is now $29,400.

 

To me, this still matches freshmen data with 49% not having debt at that point.  Some lose their merit aid.  Some have enough in savings to pay the first year or two, but not all.  Some schools give more aid to freshmen than to later years.

 

Note too, that the first report is of 4 year schools.  The student debt includes 2 year and for-profit tech deals too.  Those latter are responsible for many defaults.

 

I still think it fits.

[8filltheheart]

I didn't pay enough attention to the article to realize all the stats you posted pertained only to freshman. I also didn't realize that the debt data was only factored across students with debt. That so much debt falls on so few.....sobering.

[Dmmetler]

Another possibility is that their first choice when they applied changed once they got farther into the college visit process. I know for me my dreams of big universities in big cities changed once I got closer to actually leaving home.

 

 

[Sunshine State Sue]

Thanks for typing that out, creekland.  Very interesting.

[creekland]

Another possibility is that their first choice when they applied changed once they got farther into the college visit process. I know for me my dreams of big universities in big cities changed once I got closer to actually leaving home.

 

They are interviewing freshmen at or near the end of their freshman year, so I assume they are talking about "first choice" once they have all the data involved and are making their decision - not a "first choice" as they were at the application stage.

 

It's not surprising at all to me to see $$ being the biggest influence.  It was back when I attended my second choice school too.

 

[FaithManor]

$$$ for me. My first choice, Oberlin, was just not as generous as my second and third choice and I came from a family that didn't have two pennies to rub together so college pennies were not happening. Dad surprised me when he dropped me at school and bought my first semester books. $250.00 which also included some music that my piano prof wanted me to get. I had money in my pocket that I had saved from paid accompanying gigs and planned to pay for them. He insisted. I found out later that mom had been skimming off the grocery budget to put that money away for me. I never asked them for another dime and whenever they asked, no matter what my situation, the answer was "I'm doing fine financially mom! Thanks for asking." I usually was though because I had paid accompanying jobs and music students every year.

 

I did just fine at my second choice. However, some days I still think about Oberlin...it wa s a perfect fit for me, my dream music department back in the day. Oh well, it all worked out for the best.

 

Dd landed at her second choice and though she was upset at the time, it worked out great in the end.

[angela in ohio]

We always told dd she needed to get into a competitive enough college that they would meet full financial need. And sure enough, the competitive, expensive school out of state ended up being cheaper than the state school.

 

We are laughing at what a statistical oddity she is: homeschooled, non-working mother, going more than 500 miles, working to pay for some of her schooling, etc. :D

[StephanieZ]

I totally believe it. A friend's son turned down Stanford last year for $$ issues. It was his first choice, but he is now happy and thriving in the second choice school.

 

Other friends have kids heading off to Ivies this fall, but, in both cases, they can afford them due to a combination of good financial (need based) aid as well as substantial financial resources. 

 

Our kids can't go to any school that doesn't offer merit aid. DD17 will be a National Merit Scholar and is a highly qualified applicant . . . We aren't encouraging her to even apply to the Ivies since we know we won't be eligible for sufficient need based aid and they don't offer merit aid. So, it's "second tier" schools only, since the top tier don't offer merit aid . . . and, I am sorry, but 70k/yr is NOT affordable for us, no matter what the calculators say. 

 

I sincerely believe that the elite colleges will have to start using some of their endowments to bring down costs for everyone . . . or else they will become schools for only the VERY rich and the relatively poor. "Upper middle" income families will continue to flee the 60-70k/yr schools for more modestly priced schools. 

 

I am just thankful dd tests well and so will have choices of schools that won't bankrupt us or mortgage her future.

[Teachin'Mine]

As Creekland pointed out, very interesting stats in the article.   Like Angela's daughter, dd is also in the small minority for most categories.

 

8 Fill, I think that the percent for those having no loans is so high because it's generally for those whose families can afford to pay in full, or for those who receive great merit scholarships or financial aid with no loans.   For the second group, the number of colleges which offer full support without loans is very limited.  It still irks me that so many colleges claim to meet 100% need and not only include the basic Stafford loans, but ones above and beyond for which neither the students nor parents would likely qualify.   Dd could have written fewer essays and we could have saved CSS and test score costs in hindsight. 

 

Regarding not attending first choice, it surprises me that about 75% are accepted to attend their first choice college.  I'm guessing that the majority are attending in state publics.  But I'm sure that if you look at those pursuing the most selective colleges, it's probably a very small percentage (maybe less than 10% based on admission rates?) who are accepted into their first choice college.   Dd had one we thought might be a first choice, but there was nothing set in her mind at all as she didn't think she'd be accepted and didn't visit.   Even for those who are admitted into their first choice, I can easily see them attending elsewhere, not only for financial reasons, but after visiting.  Not all students visit all their choices before applying and overnight visits can be enlightening.   Sometimes the not-my-first-choice ones can become clear winners after financial info and visits and research are done.   There's also more time after the December/January rush to get in applications and scholarships for students to research and learn more about what each college has to offer.

[Nan in Mass]

Before the crash, at least one of the ivies was talking about free tuition because of their investments having done well enough.  The crash came before they could put that plan into action.

 

Nan

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I actually find the low percentage of homeschoolers good to keep in mind. It reminds me to show a lot more grace when I am talking to confused admissions staff who are asking for things that don't exist or don't apply to many homeschoolers. 

 

It also give me some hope that homeschooling will actually help my kids to stand out a bit, rather than just making them sound odd and inadequate.

 

 

The other couple items that struck me: the high percentage with both parents alive and married. I thought the percentage of kids with married parents was far lower. It may be that those students are (much) less likely to go to college. Or it may be that the cohort with a higher rate of divorce hasn't worked its way through high school yet.

 

The percentage who were not contributing anything to college costs struck me as high. Could reflect any number of things from great scholarships, to parents paying all, to having no individual savings. But it still struck me. I remember being very particular about attending every session of every class when I did my masters degree. Partly it was because I had to walk to the bursar's office each semester and write a check from my own account.