Are AP classes worth it if you can't take the test?

[Mom22ns]

I'm reading the thread about the online AP English classes and drooling. I'm wondering if I should enroll my future English major ds next year. But there is a catch. We can NOT find a school district that will allow us to take AP exams. I have talked to so many I've lost count and been told no by all of them. 

 

So which would be better...

 

I was planning on have him take Comp 1 and Intro to Lit at the local CC next year. 

 

or 

 

AP English in one of these wonderful online classes being raved about.

 

The CC would be cheaper, although it is not free here. It would also gain college credit where the AP class would not. However, I can not guarantee he would have a wonderful teacher, get great feedback, and or learn tons and love the CC classes.

 

Thoughts?

 

ETA: While I appreciate everyone wanting to help us take AP exams, I have already fought and lost that battle. I am just looking for discussion about APs without exams and if they are better than CC classes where there would be a validated grade and college credit awarded.

[Muttichen]

This is for your current eleventh grader?  Then definitely yes.  We haven't had our kids take any AP exams in 12th because by that point, so far at least, they've all been admitted to schools that don't give credit anyway.

[Mom22ns]

Yes, it would be my current 11th grader. We're doing a few CLEPs for credit since we can't do APs. 

 

I'm just wondering if the wonderful courses are worth it just because they are wonderful or are we better off to go with CC classes that may or may not be wonderful, but will give credit and an outside grade verification.

[swimmermom3]

In previous threads, we've often talked about the fact that college credits and the ability to place in a higher class may not be the only reason for taking an AP course. My older kids took AP European History with no intent to test simply because they liked the subject and thought the teacher was excellent. However, that class was at the public high school and was free. There was no risk involved.

 

My perspective on the AP English  Language class we are taking from PAHS, is that yes, it would still be worth the money even if ds were to not to receive any credit for taking it. The writing he is doing now will serve him well in being ready to competently tackle writing in various classes in college and it should help to prepare him for other academic essays whether on AP exams, the SAT, or college admissions essays.

 

For us there is another bonus; my ds has viewed a high school education as something fairly easy to come by and that most kids don't put forth a lot of effort to acquire one.  Between the sailors on his high school sailing team and his classmates at PAHS, he has been exposed to a whole new level of academic challenge that he is not exposed to regularly at the public high school. These young people push him to grow.

 

Teachers that "rock," I mean really "rock," can make a tremendous difference in a young person's life and academic outlook. Classes that help students build really strong academic foundations or that inspire a passion that may lead into a new and fulfilling direction are worth participating in, whether or not one receives credit.

 

This is not to say the PAHS is the only way to get a great teaching experience. I would have happily turned my youngest  over to the AP Euro teacher at the ps, because he too, is really good at his job, but the school wouldn't have ds because he's a sophomore.Ask around and remember, while one class may really float my boat, it may not float yours. I tend to look for suggestions from people who have similar teaching styles, or children, or expectations.

 

Good luck and I hope you have a great experience.

 

 

[Wildcat]

I would say "yes".

 

Ds took AP English Lang his senior year because it was the next logical step. English isn't his "thing" and he knew going into it that he wasn't going to sit for the test, as he would have needed a '5' to get credit for both English classes at his college. His ACT score already allowed him to skip the first English class at his college, so skipping the test was a 'no-brainer' for him.

 

Fast forward..... he said his AP class (we used Blue Tent Online) prepared him for his English class quite well. The things he learned in her class were things his professor stressed in class. While he didn't find the class 'easy' (remember, he isn't an English sort of kid), he knew what to do and how to do it. Many of his fellow classmates struggled, including the one who went to a college prep school. Ds' only struggle was just to get the assignments done, as he would rather work on his non-English classes. :lol:

 

So, all that to say.... the 'test' is but one facet of the class. The class (a good one, as in Blue Tent or the other providers named in the other thread) will prepare the student quite well for success in his or her college English classes.

 

About not finding a testing location..... have you tried contacting any homeschool groups? I also can't find a school nearby, but there is a homeschool group two hours away from me that is on good terms with a private school, so we will travel there for my dd's exam.

 

I would try contacting groups elsewhere in your state (or outside your state if you are near the border) and see if any one knows where you can test. 

 

 

[Kareni]

I'm just wondering if the wonderful courses are worth it just because they are wonderful or are we better off to go with CC classes that may or may not be wonderful, but will give credit and an outside grade verification.

 

By 'credit,' do you mean credit at the college your child will attend after community college?  If so, bear in mind that not all colleges will accept community college credits.  Many do, others do not. 

 

But, yes, taking a community college class will certainly provide a grade that ought not be questioned.

 

Regards,

Kareni

[Mom22ns]

By 'credit,' do you mean credit at the college your child will attend after community college?  If so, bear in mind that not all colleges will accept community college credits.  Many do, others do not. 

 

Ds has his college choices narrowed to two. Both are local and both accept most classes from the CC system and have detailed listings of how they transfer, so we are certain how the CC credit will apply. That and the experience in a college setting were the reasons I had planned to have him take the classes.

 

The wonderful experiences out there that come so highly recommended were not really on my radar. That is the problem with these boards… there is always something new to consider. I'm just trying to figure out which is best. Ds and I talked about it last night. He likes the looks of both options. He likes the idea of having the credits and taking the CC classes. I let him read the PAHS AP English description and he liked that too.

[Kareni]

Ds has his college choices narrowed to two. Both are local and both accept most classes from the CC system and have detailed listings of how they transfer, so we are certain how the CC credit will apply. That and the experience in a college setting were the reasons I had planned to have him take the classes.

 

That does sound good then.  (It's certainly helpful when you already know your child's college choices prior to spring of senior year!)

 

We had initially intended that my daughter take an AP English class her junior year; however, the class offering fell through.  She ended up taking three composition and three literature classes at the local community college during 11th and 12th grades.  (Our community college is on a quarter rather than semester system.)  Those classes ended up being very beneficial to her and prepared her well for writing at the college level.

 

It sounds as though both of your son's options have value.

 

Regards,

Kareni

[Mom2boys]

Since your son is planning on majoring in English, I would recommend the AP course. I think it would better prepare him for the type of writing that will be expected of him in college. 

[creekland]

Is there any way you can find out of the Intro to Lit prof is worthy of the class?  If so, I'd head that way in your situation.  If not, I'd probably go AP for the education.  In either case, he ought to be able to do the computer class at the cc.

[Mom22ns]

Is there any way you can find out of the Intro to Lit prof is worthy of the class?  If so, I'd head that way in your situation.  If not, I'd probably go AP for the education.  In either case, he ought to be able to do the computer class at the cc.

 

Comp 1 is Composition, not Computers… sorry for the confusion.

 

There are MANY teachers for both classes at the CC. I've looked through their reviews on Rate My Professor and there are clearly some to avoid and some that are popular and some that get mixed reviews. 

 

Maybe the thing to do is have hime take the AP English class, and some non-English classes at the CC. That would give him the very high quality opportunity for English and still give him some more classroom experience and a few more transfer credits.

[creekland]

 

Maybe the thing to do is have hime take the AP English class, and some non-English classes at the CC. That would give him the very high quality opportunity for English and still give him some more classroom experience and a few more transfer credits.

 

That sounds like an ideal plan to me.  Sorry about the confusion with computers.  Comp is the way our school shortens computer classes.  ;)  All English classes start with ENG.

 

[Mom22ns]

That sounds like an ideal plan to me.  Sorry about the confusion with computers.  Comp is the way our school shortens computer classes.  ;)  All English classes start with ENG.

 

 

I'm really liking that idea too. The more I think about it, I think it would be a good idea for him to NOT have any English credits before he gets to the college of his choice. He really wants to go to a small, moderately competitive LAC that he chose because of the wonderful English department. I don't want him to miss out on any of the English classes there. Because he is 2e, we are trying to make sure he goes into college with some credits to keep him from having to carry any heavy class loads once he gets there.

 

You know it is funny. Dd is a science person, and I have told her she can take advanced sciences, but she'll want to start with majors intro classes when she gets to the college of her choice. We are avoiding CC science and letting her take CC English classes. I don't know why I wasn't giving the same respect to the English department for ds.

[Teachin'Mine]

If he wants to take the AP test, you may want to ask local private schools if they'll allow him to take it there.  But if he's not looking for credit, then there may be no benefit to doing that.  I do remember Creekland mentioning that a special biology class would be available to her son if he had taken, and scored well, on the AP bio, but she should have the details. You may want to check with your son's college to see if there's any reason to take, or not take, the AP test.

[Mom22ns]

I have tried every private school within 50 miles. :(

[Teachin'Mine]

I have tried every private school within 50 miles. :(

 

It doesn't sound like the test would benefit him anyway, but I do wish that it was easier for us homeschoolers for all of these testing situations.  

[Mom22ns]

It doesn't sound like the test would benefit him anyway, but I do wish that it was easier for us homeschoolers for all of these testing situations.  

 

I want to like this about 10 times. My kids would really like to be able to take AP tests so they could get college credit for the work they are doing. We check carefully at each college they are considering and do some of the CLEP tests that have a decent chance of ending up getting credit, but it is frustrating. Colleges accept a lot more APs than CLEPs and the only difference for us would be a little more test specific prep at the end of a course.

 

I had seen so many people doing APs on this board, I never dreamed we wouldn't be able to make that happen. I started at my local ps district. They have been so homeschool friendly for everything else, but said no APs. I tried the districts on each side of me, the largest district in the area, a few small districts that offer at least one AP and every private school that offers APs. I was shocked that I couldn't find a place for my kids to test. I even called a private Thomas Jefferson school an hour away that offers almost every AP exam for their kids, but there policy is no unenrolled student on campus ever, including testing.  :svengo:

 

I have thought about going farther away and making an overnight trip out of APs, but so far I haven't decided it is worth it.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

The lack of AP access is a major issue for me. In my mind it flies in the face of the equity issues that College Board claims to believe in. If the only place that a student can test is in a school and the schools in the area limit their ap classes or won't test non enrolled students it is going to have a disparate impact. Well financed districts that are already offering challenging work will offer ap courses and tests. Financially troubled districts may not. The talented and hard working students in chaotic schools, the rural school with small enrollment, the homeschooler and the independent student are all penalized.

 

Dh went to a great college prep private school. But AP wasn't such a big deal then. He took three AP tests even though he'd only ened in one course. Passed all three and used some of that credit to get a double major.

 

My entire district (3 high schools) only offered one AP at one school. Students had to commute by private car daily to take the course if they weren't at the host school. I was able to test based on the honors course at my school and still scored well enough to validate the course.

 

If the local schools in my area had a blanket no outside testers policy I would be rather loud in my objections. I can understand prohibitions on sports participation. But excluding testing opportunities is IMO both biased and unfair. Especially when most homeschoolers are willing to pay for exam and proctoring fees.

 

Have you tried the local school board? Or the office to which you file any homeschool paperwork?

[Elisabet1]

It depends on the AP class and why people are drooling. Do the kids just pass AP tests? Or is there good quality education?

 

I do not think a CC class would be better than an AP class. But, the problem with AP classes can be that it turns in to a big test prep class more than educational.

[creekland]

If he wants to take the AP test, you may want to ask local private schools if they'll allow him to take it there.  But if he's not looking for credit, then there may be no benefit to doing that.  I do remember Creekland mentioning that a special biology class would be available to her son if he had taken, and scored well, on the AP bio, but she should have the details. You may want to check with your son's college to see if there's any reason to take, or not take, the AP test.

 

This is true.  My guy studied at the AP level for Bio and likely would have done superbly on the test, but we opted to save money and skip the test since we knew he didn't want to accept credit for the course due to going pre-med.  His college (see sig) had an Honors Bio class that you could only sign up for if you had a documented 5 on the test - no exceptions.  It was disappointing for a little bit, but he did just fine in the regular class and med schools won't care which one he took - only that he did well in it.  In hindsight, I'd have paid the $$ for the test so he could have taken the class he preferred, but I had NOT seen that issue come up before.  I'm relaying the experience here just in case anyone else wants to consider it.

 

I have tried every private school within 50 miles. :(

 

Have you called collegeboard and talked with them?  Public schools around here were not open to my guy taking the test there - not even the one I worked at as they don't offer AP even for their own students, so wouldn't order tests for mine.  The local Catholic school was superb - even ordering a test for my son and proctoring it even when NONE of their students were taking that particular test.  They only charged me for the test cost.

 

NOW (not when I needed it), my public school has had a change of heart and starting last year, they did offer APs to homeschoolers for just the test cost.  The homeschoolers have to reside in our district though (taxpayers).  I think they just maybe felt a little bit of shame when I related how awesome the Catholic school was for us.  None of this may apply in your situation, but I'm curious to know what collegeboard would say if you're totally closed out.

[katilac]

I can't find the original thread - can anyone link to it, or tell what PAHS is? thanks. 

 

[Teachin'Mine]

Pennsylvania Homeschoolers?

[Mom22ns]

I can't find the original thread - can anyone link to it, or tell what PAHS is? thanks. 

 

Yes, Pennsylvania Homeschoolers. This was the thread that I referred to. 

[katilac]

thanks! 

[MtnTeaching]

My perspective on the AP English  Language class we are taking from PAHS, is that yes, it would still be worth the money even if ds were to not to receive any credit for taking it. The writing he is doing now will serve him well in being ready to competently tackle writing in various classes in college and it should help to prepare him for other academic essays whether on AP exams, the SAT, or college admissions essays.

 

YES!!!!!

 

Teachers that "rock," I mean really "rock," can make a tremendous difference in a young person's life and academic outlook. Classes that help students build really strong academic foundations or that inspire a passion that may lead into a new and fulfilling direction are worth participating in, whether or not one receives credit.

 

YES!!!!

 

My Ds is in the same AP English Language class as simmermom3's Ds.  I agree with her... "it would still be worth the money even if my ds did not receive credit for it".  The experience he is gaining in the class and the teacher... my goodness, she is wonderful.  She inspires a depth of character along with her academic instruction.  In my opinion, this course is worth every penny (and every drip of sweat from my ds's brow  :D) even if there were no such thing as an AP test.  He is learning to engage with his work and with others in his class.  He is gaining the fortitude to struggle with something that is hard and to reap the benefits from it in accomplishing things he never thought he could.

 

Regarding the test, so far, we have been welcomed in our area to take AP, PSAT, and ACT tests with no problem.  Ds took the AP Human Geography test at a charter school and they could not have been nicer.  Unfortunately this year, he also needs to take the AP Comparative Government test and I am having a terrible time finding someone who is giving it.  I called the College Board and they have a list of the schools in the area that are giving that test.  I have a meeting next week with the AP Coordinator of the school closest to us.  Below is the info from the Homeschooling page on the College Board site.  I would definitely get in touch with them and see what they can do to help you.  I would not accept the discrimination against homeschoolers in this instance without being a bit of a squeeky wheel.

 

How homeschooled students can arrange for testing

Students can arrange to test at participating schools by following the steps below (students in mainland China should contact international@collegeboard.org):

• Contact AP Services no later than March 1 to get the names and telephone numbers of local AP Coordinators. Students should prepare a list of the exams they plan to take prior to calling so that the appropriate Coordinators can be identified.
• Contact the Coordinators identified by AP Services no later than March 15.

Students should inform each Coordinator they contact that:

• They are trying to locate a school willing to administer AP Exams to outside students. Students should note the exams they plan to take.
• They will use the state homeschool code provided by the Coordinator on the day of the exam, ensuring their exam score(s) will be reported separately from the school at which they test.

• AP Services
• P.O. Box 6671
• Princeton, New Jersey 08541-6671
• Phone: 877-274-6474 (toll-free in the United States and Canada) or 212-632-1781
• Email: apexams@info.collegeboard.org

[ocelotmom]

There's something on the collegeboard website about contacting them to arrange testing where in-school testing isn't available. I would do that.

 

If it's truly impossible, I think a truly good class would be preferable over college credit.

[katilac]

There's something on the collegeboard website about contacting them to arrange testing where in-school testing isn't available. I would do that.

 

If it's truly impossible, I think a truly good class would be preferable over college credit.

 

All collegeboard does is give you a list of schools who are offering AP tests. They do not help you set it up in any way, so you are at the mercy of local schools. 

[MtnTeaching]

All collegeboard does is give you a list of schools who are offering AP tests. They do not help you set it up in any way, so you are at the mercy of local schools. 

 

 

I was hoping that they may be able to give her some other testing sites she may have overlooked.

 

It just dumbfounds me that schools would be reluctant (or nasty) about letting a child attend their testing if they are already giving the test.  If speaking with the local Principals did not work, I would be contacting the Superintendent's office of the school district.  Not in a belligerent or demanding way, but in a "Please help me to understand the policy of not allowing a child to pay for the AP test and just sitting in an empty desk" kind of way.  

 

Maybe asking if an additional stipend as payment for the "proctoring" of the test would help to offset any additional burden the school and staff would entail by allowing the student to attend the testing session.  I know that schools in my area have the ability to request additional money to offset testing costs and/or sports costs.

 

These are supposed to be educators, not dictators of a child's future.

[Mom22ns]

We don't normally have any contact with the schools here, but I am actually meeting with someone Friday on an unrelated topic. She would not have the authority to change the policy, but she might have influence with the person who does. I'll bring it up :). I'm not willing to go to superintendents or complain about lack of access to the college board. For me, just having to contact all those districts to be told no has been more than enough.  :svengo:

 

I asked on the local homeschool listserv (about 1000 members) and the unanimous response was "take CLEPs instead". Most homeschoolers here homeschool for religious, not academic reasons. I don't know how many have tried to take APs, but none have found a test site. If we decide we really need it, I will look farther away.

 

[MtnTeaching]

We don't normally have any contact with the schools here, but I am actually meeting with someone Friday on an unrelated topic. She would not have the authority to change the policy, but she might have influence with the person who does. I'll bring it up :). I'm not willing to go to superintendents or complain about lack of access to the college board. For me, just having to contact all those districts to be told no has been more than enough.  :svengo:

 

I asked on the local homeschool listserv (about 1000 members) and the unanimous response was "take CLEPs instead". Most homeschoolers here homeschool for religious, not academic reasons. I don't know how many have tried to take APs, but none have found a test site. If we decide we really need it, I will look farther away.

 

FWIW, in my district here, it is up to the individual schools to decide whether they allow outside students to test.  Did you by chance contact the "AP Coordinators" at the individual schools?  or just call the District Main numbers?   Just wondering.

 

I called the schools directly and asked for the AP Coordinator when I was trying to find the test I needed.  Here, they are the ones who pretty much make the decisions.  If your area has blanket policy, though, that is a bummer.

 

Good luck with this!!!  Big smiles and lots of sugar can sway flies to see things your way (as my Grandmother would have said  :001_smile: )

[Mom22ns]

I called the schools directly and asked for the AP Coordinator when I was trying to find the test I needed.  Here, they are the ones who pretty much make the decisions.  If your area has blanket policy, though, that is a bummer.

 

 

This is what I did too. I actually had good results emailing to find out who the AP Coordinator was first then knowing who to contact.

[Muttichen]

FWIW, in my district here, it is up to the individual schools to decide whether they allow outside students to test.  Did you by chance contact the "AP Coordinators" at the individual schools?  or just call the District Main numbers?   Just wondering.

 

 

This is what I was thinking too.  If I called my district, I'd probably get some secretary or administrator who would just say no because in most cases homeschoolers can't participate in any activities.  If I call the individual school and talk to the AP coordinator, it's a completely different story.  They are welcoming and used to homeschoolers taking the tests.

 

Do you know homeschoolers in your area who have older kids and may have experience with this?  Is there an oversight person you deal with who could tell you if there are homeschoolers around who have taken APs?  

 

You could also try contacting the Richmans at PAH.  They may have had students in your area.  

 

Don't give  up!

[Mom22ns]

While there is one large school district (not mine) nearby, all the other districts in this area only have ONE high school. That is the only place to call. The idea of calling the superintendents office… lets just say no. I haven't done it and I don't plan on it. 

 

Sometimes I forget how different our fairly rural life is :).

 

I really am not looking for help finding a place to test, although I appreciate everyone wanting to fix the problem. I really just want to get opinions on how beneficial AP classes are without testing.

[MtnTeaching]

 

I really am not looking for help finding a place to test, although I appreciate everyone wanting to fix the problem. I really just want to get opinions on how beneficial AP classes are without testing.

 

In my book, if you have a good teacher and materials (and enough money in the case of the online ones  :svengo:), it is 100% beneficial.  My ds has learned so much in his AP classes.  After all, isn't that the main goal of school - to learn?  :D

[Mom22ns]

In my book, if you have a good teacher and materials (and enough money in the case of the online ones  :svengo:), it is 100% beneficial.  My ds has learned so much in his AP classes.  After all, isn't that the main goal of school - to learn?  :D

 

Between you and Swimmermom, I'm sold :). Ds and I looked at course descriptions, reviews, and the sample week online and he really wants to take the class. 

 

Can anyone tell me how fast we have to sign up? I saw registration opens the end of February and I know the class does fill. How fast do we need to get an application in?

[MtnTeaching]

Between you and Swimmermom, I'm sold :). Ds and I looked at course descriptions, reviews, and the sample week online and he really wants to take the class. 

 

Can anyone tell me how fast we have to sign up? I saw registration opens the end of February and I know the class does fill. How fast do we need to get an application in?

 

I would say - pretty quick.  The whole "Last Week of February" thing on the website makes me a bit nervous.  I would like to know the exact date and time  :001_smile: .  I am going to be there with my fingers glued to the keyboard when it opens up!

[swimmermom3]

I would say - pretty quick.  The whole "Last Week of February" thing on the website makes me a bit nervous.  I would like to know the exact date and time  :001_smile: .  I am going to be there with my fingers glued to the keyboard when it opens up!

 

Hey Leslie, what are you planning on for next year? Please tell your son that mine appreciates the feedback on the Comparative Government class.

 

Or pm me. :D

[MtnTeaching]

Hey Leslie, what are you planning on for next year? Please tell your son that mine appreciates the feedback on the Comparative Government class.

 

Or pm me. :D

 

He really wants to take the AP English Literature class.  He has enjoyed the English Language one so much!

 

I'll let him know your ds said that.  :001_smile: