Advanced placement vs dual enrollment

[Teachin'Mine]

This article came out a couple of weeks ago, but I don't recall it being addressed here.  Just thought it might be helpful, as one person's take on the difference, for those looking at both and trying to decide what's best for their particular student.  I like that despite the drawbacks of AP, the author does acknowledge that AP is the best available for high school students learning in high schools, but encourages those who are able, to take advantage of actual college courses.   I know that with homeschooling we have even more options, but I am a strongly in favor of college courses while in high school for those students who are ready.

 

 

http://chronicle.com/blogs/onhiring/advanced-placement-vs-dual-enrollment/35943

[Muttichen]

It doesn't have to be one or the other,  We had our kids take DE classes and then take the AP exam so admissions officers could compare their knowledge of the subject to that of the top high school students.

[creekland]

Middle son did both AP and DE in different subjects.  No regrets at all in choosing to go that way.  AP worked out better for him in admissions/getting credits and DE worked out nicely with admission/getting nice LORs.

 

I probably should add that our experience was quite different than the authors in that the AP classes went more into depth (kiddo self studied them, so no busy work) and cost us significantly less than the DE classes.  With AP we paid for the test.  With DE we paid roughly $250 per credit hour (so $750 for a 3 hour course).  For both we bought books.  Then at middle son's college, AP is accepted for credit with a 4 or 5 on the test.  DE is not accepted - even with As.

 

We have no regrets with the DE classes we chose though.  Microbio and Public Speaking are tough to do at home.  ;)  English is not my forte, so having a prof with that was better IMO.  And those profs did provide nice LORs.  Then there's the classroom experience...

 

YMMV

[Gwen in VA]

My kids have taken many DE classes and many AP's.

 

1) If you are looking for credit, neither one is guaranteed. None of the colleges my kids have attended accepted any of the credits from our community college, though AP's were accepted at one. (Rumor has it that there are some colleges where the reverse is true!) Ds2's college accepts no transfer credits whatsoever, period. So if transfer credits are important, check with the colleges your kid is interested in.

 

2) At least at our CC (which is considered a "good" one for our state), the CC classes were lame. I had one kid take Calculus 1, College Composition 1, and Calc-based physics plus another class and he got straight A's while doing an hour or so of homework PER WEEK!!!!! Hello Houston, I think we have a problem!

 

3) In our experience, the AP classes were much more rigorous than the CC. (I know that depends on the CC.) For example, in APUSH, my dd read pages and pages of primary source documents each week and wrote a weekly essay. In U.S. History at the CC, my younger kids wrote one essay PER SEMESTER, they used the textbook that was the dumbed-down easy version of the one dd used in APUSH, and they read three primary source documents (about six pages total) per semester.

 

4) When possible, our kids did DE through a highly-ranked local college. That seemed to be the best option for us, though it is expensive enough that we can't do it for more than one or two classes per semester.

 

That said, the classroom experience gained by DE (even at the CC) is invaluable, so we did a combination of DE and AP.

[Jane in NC]

I am troubled how we, on a cultural level, paint the world into dichotomies.  Both AP and DE are options that are not uniformly advantageous or disadvantageous. 

 

In my rural world, Chemistry at the CC was a better option than any chemistry class at the local high school due to superior lab space and two high quality profs. Further AP Chem is not offered at any of the local high schools. 

 

Our local high schools are on the block system which makes DE a challenge.  I believe that the school system is responding to the low "pass rate" (scores below 3) on APs by offering Concurrent Enrollment in which a CC prof travels to the high school.  It will be interesting to learn if these courses are more independent like a college course with demanding reading assignments or more like high school with silly homework projects.

 

The author mentions the "easy" AP of Human Geography, the gateway drug course on the AP path. None of the schools offer it here and I don't know anyone who has taken it.  I am curious if anyone wants to discuss this course and whether the point is content or learning how AP works.

 

I do think that DE is an option that is beneficial to many students.  At the same time, our local CC with its open door policy does not offer the peers that one may find in a course at the university level.  In itself, this can be a learning experience.

[at the beach]

We use both. My daughter took AP US Gov't and Politics last year. This year, she is taking AP English Lit. She will do AP Latin in 12th and possibly more, depending. We also started dual enrollment this year. My daughter completed a science majors biology course last semester at our cc. She loved it. The teacher will be writing her a letter of recommendation, which we are thrilled about. We really wanted to have a teacher from a live class write a letter of recommendation. The grade distribution in my daughter's class was 2 A's out of 25 students. The class average was a C. So, no grade inflation apparently. In our local high school, I think there is a lot more grade inflation going on. The class was a lot of work, and my daughter learned so much. No way could she have gotten by with minimal studying. Our cc has some excellent profs. There are also some who get poor reviews, so be careful. We have discovered classes with good profs fill quickly, like within minutes of registration opening. It takes some doing to make sure you can get into a class you want, not one of the positives of dual enrollment.

[Nan in Mass]

We did community college classes.  We homeschooled in a very non-classroom-y way so we used cc classes to build a gentle ramp from homeschooling to full load of college classes.  We were grateful that the cc offered classes that were not writing-heavy, did not have a mile long reading list, and did not require excellent study skills to survive.  (I have one who is likely to misread things on tests, also, so the AP test would not have been a good choice for him.  He needs lots of non-test grades to survive a class.)  That said, I know that the academic experience my sons had is not the same as that of their cousins in their AP classes.  The cousins sit in class and do homework out of class with a group of intellectually-minded friends.  Their teachers know that they are teaching the top students in the school who are headed for top colleges and structure their classes accordingly.  For example, they offer very challenging calculus and physics problems, which the students solve in groups so they are able to see other possible approaches.  The goal is different.  The high school AP classes are trying to prepare their top students for top colleges and offer them a challenge.  The calculus and physics classes cover less material per semester and can cover the basics faster due to the students' abilities.  The community college is trying to prepare average students to transfer to the nearest state engineering school well-grounded with a good gpa.  Both are good goals but they lead to rather different classroom experiences.  My children have said they were grateful for the how-to-go-to-college part of their community college experience as well as the general how-to-learn-in-a-classroom experience.  (See Margaret's list.)  We assumed neither would transfer and were not worried about that.  If you want to shorten your university stay for financial purposes, then probably the safest route would be to take community college classes and then go to a college with a transfer agreement, checking carefully to make sure the cc classes DO prepare the students to continue to study whateveritis at the four-year college.  There are many stories about cc transfer students struggling when switching to 4-years.  If you are looking for classroom experience and can afford it, dual enrolling at a local university might be a good option, but I would not count on the classes transferring.  Even AP test scores of 5's may not transfer.  Which is best depends on your goals.

 

Nan

[8filltheheart]

My kids have taken many DE classes and many AP's.

 

1) If you are looking for credit, neither one is guaranteed. None of the colleges my kids have attended accepted any of the credits from our community college, though AP's were accepted at one. (Rumor has it that there are some colleges where the reverse is true!) Ds2's college accepts no transfer credits whatsoever, period. So if transfer credits are important, check with the colleges your kid is interested in.

 

2) At least at our CC (which is considered a "good" one for our state), the CC classes were lame. I had one kid take Calculus 1, College Composition 1, and Calc-based physics plus another class and he got straight A's while doing an hour or so of homework PER WEEK!!!!! Hello Houston, I think we have a problem!

 

3) In our experience, the AP classes were much more rigorous than the CC. (I know that depends on the CC.) For example, in APUSH, my dd read pages and pages of primary source documents each week and wrote a weekly essay. In U.S. History at the CC, my younger kids wrote one essay PER SEMESTER, they used the textbook that was the dumbed-down easy version of the one dd used in APUSH, and they read three primary source documents (about six pages total) per semester.

 

4) When possible, our kids did DE through a highly-ranked local college. That seemed to be the best option for us, though it is expensive enough that we can't do it for more than one or two classes per semester.

 

That said, the classroom experience gained by DE (even at the CC) is invaluable, so we did a combination of DE and AP.

I'll just quote Gwen bc my answer is the same. Even comparing apples to apples, AP chem to DEchem, AP chem was far superior or DE chem. Ds took AP and Dd DE in chem.

[Susie in CA]

I think it is really difficult to compare AP and DE. It is even difficult to compare DE between different college and even within one college. The same is true for AP. Not all highschool courses are the same; neither are the college courses. So yes, it comes down to your individual goal.

 

For us:

 

1. Dss can take classes at the CC which I am not able to teach (at least not well).

 

2. Money. Our CC is free as long as the kids are highschool students. This is huge for us. Also, what ds1 wants to study is available at a school he could transfer into. So we are focusing on taking appropriate courses. This may safe us a lot of money in the long run.

 

3. Choices. The sheer amount of different topics offered at the CC cannot be beat at any highschool in our area. To me that alone is worth DE.

 

4. Getting Credit for highschool as well as transfer into the school of choice is huge for a Science major. The amount of science classes on our list is insane. We may as well get a headstart.

 

These are my reasons for preferring DE over AP. There may be more, but I can't think of others right now.

 

[8filltheheart]

4. Getting Credit for highschool as well as transfer into the school of choice is huge for a Science major. The amount of science classes on our list is insane. We may as well get a headstart.

 

 

This isn't a universal truth.   While some schools don't allow any credit  for any outside classes, some do but not classes that are used to meet high school graduation requirements.   Others won't allow credit for in major.   Some only allow credit for only fully in person on a college campus classes.   Some only allow credit if the syllabus meets the approval of the dean of that dept, etc. 

 

APs and DE really require investigation on the part of the applicant.

[Teachin'Mine]

As Muttichen, Creekland, Gwen, and many others have pointed out, it doesn't have to be one or the other.  A mix of the two can be the best of both, and as I mentioned, as homeschoolers we have even more options.  

 

IMO even if a student were to opt for all AP classes, there's still so much to gain by taking even one dual enrollment course. 

 

Just wanted to add this article, of one person's experience, to the collection of articles, experiences, etc. of dual enrollment and AP options.

[Teachin'Mine]

This isn't a universal truth.   While some schools don't allow any credit  for any outside classes, some do but not classes that are used to meet high school graduation requirements.   Others won't allow credit for in major.   Some only allow credit for only fully in person on a college campus classes.   Some only allow credit if the syllabus meets the approval of the dean of that dept, etc. 

 

APs and DE really require investigation on the part of the applicant.

 

As Susie is in California, her post is accurate as I believe all California community college courses (of course with the exception of remedial ones) transfer to California state universities. 

 

Of course each of us should become informed before deciding.

[Teachin'Mine]

I'll just quote Gwen bc my answer is the same. Even comparing apples to apples, AP chem to DEchem, AP chem was far superior or DE chem. Ds took AP and Dd DE in chem.

 

Unfortunately some community colleges are not great.  Some are awesome.   Obviously this should be taken into consideration when making choices.  

 

When comparing it's also worth noting that there are usually different levels of science courses offered at community colleges.

[Susie in CA]

This isn't a universal truth.   While some schools don't allow any credit  for any outside classes, some do but not classes that are used to meet high school graduation requirements.   Others won't allow credit for in major.   Some only allow credit for only fully in person on a college campus classes.   Some only allow credit if the syllabus meets the approval of the dean of that dept, etc. 

 

APs and DE really require investigation on the part of the applicant.

 

Agreed! Which is why I was trying to say it is true for us for this son's choice of school. :-)

[8filltheheart]

As Susie is in California, her post is accurate as I believe all California community college courses (of course with the exception of remedial ones) transfer to California state universities.

 

Of course each of us should become informed before deciding.

Of course there are people from 49 other states reading the forum. ;) I believe CA unis all give credit for 3s on the AP exams and that is also far from a universal truth. A lot of schools are no longer giving credit for 3s and only use 3s for placement purposes.

 

I personally don't like AP courses but haven't been satisfied with CCs. So it is a mixed bag from my perspective. DE through the local university has been the best option for us.

 

Fwiw, here is an admission officer with an alternative perspective:

 

http://www.theadmissioncentre.com/should-i-take-ap-or-dual-enrollment-courses/

 

ETA: I only posted the link to show that this is simply a looped conversation bc there is no consensus.

[Teachin'Mine]

Of course there are people from 49 other states reading the forum. ;) I believe CA unis all give credit for 3s on the AP exams and that is also far from a universal truth. A lot of schools are no longer giving credit for 3s and only use 3s for placement purposes.

 

I personally don't like AP courses but haven't been satisfied with CCs. So it is a mixed bag from my perspective. DE through the local university has been the best option for us.

 

Fwiw, here is an admission officer with an alternative perspective:

 

http://www.theadmissioncentre.com/should-i-take-ap-or-dual-enrollment-courses/

 

AP courses are no different as far as getting credit as research is needed as far as different colleges requirements.

 

Just did a quick google and this is what's needed for UC Berkley engineering students.  A lot of the AP 3 will only count for general ed requirements.  Biology requires a 4 or 5 and Physics C - which is calculus based physics - requires a score of 5.  As far as I know, any physics courses below Physics C would be considered "remedial" for engineering students.

 

Here's the link:  http://coe.berkeley.edu/students/guide/exams-credit

 

 

[8filltheheart]

AP courses are no different as far as getting credit as research is needed as far as different colleges requirements.

 

Just did a quick google and this is what's needed for UC Berkley engineering students. A lot of the AP 3 will only count for general ed requirements. Biology requires a 4 or 5 and Physics C - which is calculus based physics - requires a score of 5. As far as I know, any physics courses below Physics C would be considered "remedial" for engineering students.

 

Here's the link: http://coe.berkeley.edu/students/guide/exams-credit

Since I have no real interest in CA schools, I based my understanding on http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/counselors/exam-credit/ap-credits/index.html which says at the top of the page

UC grants credit for all College Board Advanced Placement tests on which a student scores 3 or higher.

But, the pt still remains that there is no simple answer.

[Teachin'Mine]

I agree that there is no simple answer.

 

And the application of community college credits can vary at the UCs as well.

 

What confuses me though is that the second quote in your post #18 is yours. 

As is noted in my link, sometimes how much credit an AP score of 3 gets is "None".
 

[8filltheheart]

I agree that there is no simple answer.

 

And the application of community college credits can vary at the UCs as well.

 

What confuses me though is that the second quote in your post #18 is yours.

As is noted in my link, sometimes how much credit an AP score of 3 gets is "None".

 

That quote is from a main UC admissions.edu link.

[creekland]

Fwiw, here is an admission officer with an alternative perspective:

 

http://www.theadmissioncentre.com/should-i-take-ap-or-dual-enrollment-courses/

 

ETA: I only posted the link to show that this is simply a looped conversation bc there is no consensus.

 

Your "alternative perspective" link is the exact same thing we've heard from every admissions person at every private college, except that some of them will accept some DE credits and others will not.

 

Only state colleges have told us they treat DE and AP the same (for admissions "weight" purposes).  The others prefer AP - WITH test scores because the test scores level the comparison between students.  They get suspicious without them.  It's why we went out of our way to see that middle son (potentially wanting a more selective school at that point) had some AP test scores on his app.  My other two (not looking at highly selective schools) stuck with DE.

 

IMO, the direction one should aim ought to depend upon what level of school they are aiming for - but even then, there's no hard and fast rule.  We opted for a mix for middle son so he'd have his options open and hope to satisfy anyone reading his app.

 

[Jane in NC]

From the article 8 linked:

 

 

Right, well, as you know AP and dual enrollment courses are often a means to an end…that end being college credit. The policies employed to allocate course credit are as varied as the institutions they serve. Some schools, like Centre, will not accept dual enrollment credit for the reasons mentioned above. Regarding AP scores, many schools will accept any passing score on an AP exam (3-5), while some schools are more selective, accepting only scores of 4 and 5. Beyond that, you get into issues of which credits count toward electives and which count toward graduation requirements. And the list goes on…

Let's be honest:  many of us on this board use both AP or DE for the purpose of justifying Mommy grades or to provide something that we felt we could not do at home.  My son, who did both AP and DE, attends a college that does not give AP credit for "any passing score".  Many colleges do not give credit for DE unless there is an articulation agreement in place--which usually means that CC credit may be given at unis in the same state. 

 

Again, there are no cut and dry rules here. 

 

One of my son's friends comes from a family that did not have the financial resources to assist her with college.  DE (free at the time for her) allowed her to earn her first year college credits while in high school.  It was a good strategy for her but not one that will satisfy the needs of every student in every locale.

[creekland]

Let's be honest:  many of us on this board use both AP or DE for the purpose of justifying Mommy grades or to provide something that we felt we could not do at home. 

 

I agree.  Our reason was solely for admissions.  I didn't care whether any credits actually transferred from either or not.  I merely wanted the "level comparison" from the AP and the LORs from the DE... with courses selected based upon what he liked and needed for credits (high school credits), not anything else.

 

It took a lot of pressure off that way.

 

Any college credit was a bonus for us - it definitely did nothing to sway where mine chose to attend.

[Teachin'Mine]

We didn't begin DE for the purpose of transferring credits and it was never taken into consideration by my dd when she choose her courses.   Transfer students who have done well at the community college are not at all limited in their options, although most choose to remain in-state.

 

IMO the focus of the article was on the benefits of an actual college course, and all that is learned from that experience.   That isn't diminished whether one gets transfer credit or not.  

 

As far as meeting academic/intellectual peers, I would say that while some may attend community college because of it's 100% admissions policy, there are many who do so due to finances.  I think this is even more true now than in years past.   There are many opportunities (at ours anyway) to connect with other high achieving students, but the student has to make the effort to do so.

[creekland]

 

 

As far as meeting academic/intellectual peers, I would say that while some may attend community college because of it's 100% admissions policy, there are many who do so due to finances.  I think this is even more true now than in years past.   There are many opportunities (at ours anyway) to connect with other high achieving students, but the student has to make the effort to do so.

 

Of course this is another thing that will depend upon where one is located.  My high achiever felt alone at cc.  He had friends and it was nice leading study groups and tutoring peers, etc, but he did not feel he had intellectual peers.  This was when he was a junior in high school and the others were "traditional" cc students.  He still likes and gets together with his peers, so the "alone-ness" is NOT about friendship - just academics.

 

He felt right at home at his highly selective school.  It's one of the reasons he loves it there so much - another being all the opportunities he has that simply aren't at our cc (research, etc).

 

He's not alone.  I've heard the same thing from other high achievers at our local ps.  When they go to their 4 year school (if chosen appropriately for fit), they finally feel "at home" intellectually.  Most realize the difference with college visitations and sitting in on classes.

 

We're rural, so in an area (like CA or near big cities) where there are more high achievers who choose cc, this could change.  Here high achievers often have very nice offers for 4 year schools.  (Rural can be a hook.)  I don't know of any high achievers locally who start at a cc unless they are following a desired path that is also finished at cc (2 year degree or certificate).

 

Different areas are different. (Many of us have said that.)  Message boards are useful at seeing all the potential options out there, but we, as guidance counselors, need to do some actual digging to see what our local options are rather than assuming it's the same everywhere.  ;)

 

[suezoo]

This is a good discussion, one which I wish I had seen before my oldest son tried either.  I know each person's experience will be different so it takes a lot of wisdom to do what is the best thing for each child; but in our situation, because we lived overseas during the time my son was enrolled in DE, I feared that the online CC classes would not be as rigorous as the ones he had been taken with a high school online school.  I was absolutely right.  I was really disappointed that he had learned hardly anything.  In fact, in his English 101 class, he felt that he and another student, who was actually a non-native English speaker, were the best writers in that class.  A friend reminded me that often times (not always, I know) your student will be in classes with those who might not have gotten as competitive education as those in universities and private colleges.  

 

Another thing to think about.  For some students, the DE classes will look more impressive to some of the universities that are not as "friendly" to homeschoolers.  That is, they may require more of your home schooled students to apply than the public or private schooled students, such as requiring an AP or SAT subject test for courses such as language proficiency and science.  So this could be a positive for your student in that regard.  However, on the flip side, I've heard that students who have earned their AA or who have quite a lot of credits going into the university may have a harder time getting into freshmen or other exploratory classes.  If you're student doesn't know what he wants to study but has a lot of DE credits, this may be to his detriment.

 

I agree with those who have already said that it doesn't have to be one or the other.  At least now you are more informed in your decision-making.  :)

 

 

[Kareni]

This article came out a couple of weeks ago, but I don't recall it being addressed here.  ..

http://chronicle.com/blogs/onhiring/advanced-placement-vs-dual-enrollment/35943

 

Thanks for posting this link, Teachin'Mine.  I've enjoyed the conversation that resulted.

 

My daughter took Advanced Placement classes as well as a variety of community college classes.  All were beneficial to her in one way or another.

 

Regards,

Kareni

[Teachin'Mine]

That quote is from a main UC admissions.edu link.

 

Sorry, i missed that that was a quote from the link. 

[Teachin'Mine]

I wanted to add in something--our DE is from a 4 year university. As such, it tends to be transferred more than a CC. I forget sometimes that others are dealing with CCs.

 

We did run into something this year--dd was given credit for CIS 190, comp sci I. She went to the first day of II and had not a CLUE what was going on. She now has to retake I in order to take II, since the classes were not comparable. She'll not be getting credit for I at WYO, since she's already "had" the class. So, tranferring is not always smooth.

 

I think that computer science, especially for introductory courses, is one of the areas of study where course content can vary dramatically.  Some use Java, some use Python, some use ...   I think it's always a good idea to especially check the content covered when the course has a two course sequence.  Good reminder.

 

One of the things I found surprising in the UC Berkeley link is that while the community college course transfers are all "standardized", they have to individually evaluate any courses taken at a four year private or even at another state university.   I can see that this would be true for credits coming from a private college, but coming from another state university surprised me.

[Teachin'Mine]

Of course this is another thing that will depend upon where one is located.  My high achiever felt alone at cc.  He had friends and it was nice leading study groups and tutoring peers, etc, but he did not feel he had intellectual peers.  This was when he was a junior in high school and the others were "traditional" cc students.  He still likes and gets together with his peers, so the "alone-ness" is NOT about friendship - just academics.

 

He felt right at home at his highly selective school.  It's one of the reasons he loves it there so much - another being all the opportunities he has that simply aren't at our cc (research, etc).

 

He's not alone.  I've heard the same thing from other high achievers at our local ps.  When they go to their 4 year school (if chosen appropriately for fit), they finally feel "at home" intellectually.  Most realize the difference with college visitations and sitting in on classes.

 

We're rural, so in an area (like CA or near big cities) where there are more high achievers who choose cc, this could change.  Here high achievers often have very nice offers for 4 year schools.  (Rural can be a hook.)  I don't know of any high achievers locally who start at a cc unless they are following a desired path that is also finished at cc (2 year degree or certificate).

 

Different areas are different. (Many of us have said that.)  Message boards are useful at seeing all the potential options out there, but we, as guidance counselors, need to do some actual digging to see what our local options are rather than assuming it's the same everywhere.  ;)

 

 

Creekland, I know that the community colleges vary greatly.  That's why I included that I was referring to ours.  Yes, we all have to do our research and look for the best options for our individual students.

 

 

 

[Teachin'Mine]

Suezoo, our experience so far is that universities consider success in college classes as further proof that the student has had a good high school education and is capable of college level work.  I think that they also look at it as "proof" that the homeschooler has been properly "socialized".  lol  

 

My decision making is over as our high school is coming to an end.  I ran across this article while searching for other info and thought I'd pass it along as it might be helpful to someone who will be deciding in the future.

[8filltheheart]

One of the things I found surprising in the UC Berkeley link is that while the community college course transfers are all "standardized", they have to individually evaluate any courses taken at a four year private or even at another state university. I can see that this would be true for credits coming from a private college, but coming from another state university surprised me.

I'm not sure why that is surprising. States form articulation agreements between state CCs and the universities which means unis have no choice but to accept the credits......but some won't give in major credit for the classes. The agreements are based on the premise that the courses are supposed to cover the same content, but that does not guarantee they cover the content at the same depth regardless of agreements, hence are starting to not give the for major credits.

 

There are no agreements between states and every university we have spoken to has stated that transfer of credit will be dependent upon course review.

 

Fwiw, we have had deans tell us if the courses had been completed at a CC (out of state) they would not grant credit but only review the courses bc they were taken at 4 yr universities (this in regard to for major credit. I have no idea how other depts handle transfer credits)

[Teachin'Mine]

I'm not sure why that is surprising. States form articulation agreements between state CCs and the universities which means unis have no choice but to accept the credits......but some won't give in major credit for the classes. The agreements are based on the premise that the courses are supposed to cover the same content, but that does not guarantee they cover the content at the same depth regardless of agreements, hence are starting to not give the for major credits.

 

There are no agreements between states and every university we have spoken to has stated that transfer of credit will be dependent upon course review.

 

Fwiw, we have had deans tell us if the courses had been completed at a CC (out of state) they would not grant credit but only review the courses bc they were taken at 4 yr universities (this in regard to for major credit. I have no idea how other depts handle transfer credits)

 

It's surprising to me because we are talking about UC Berkeley's policy for transferring credits from UCLA and other California state universities.  I would think that if the in-state community college courses transfer, then the ones from in-state state universities would as well.   I'm also surprised considering  how over crowded the California state system is and how hard it is for students to fulfill their requirements within four years.  From what I've read, many are taking five since the courses required for graduation are hard to schedule due to state funding cutbacks.

[8filltheheart]

It's surprising to me because we are talking about UC Berkeley's policy for transferring credits from UCLA and other California state universities.  I would think that if the in-state community college courses transfer, then the ones from in-state state universities would as well.   I'm also surprised considering  how over crowded the California state system is and how hard it is for students to fulfill their requirements within four years.  From what I've read, many are taking five since the courses required for graduation are hard to schedule due to state funding cutbacks.

 

It really boils down to legal agreements.   Articulation agreements are basically legal partnerships.   Some states do have universities that have entered into system wide agreements, but those are definitely not as prevalent as CC articulation agreements.  

 

But, transferring from one institution to another is typically never a 1-to-1 experience and losing credits is far more the norm.

[Teachin'Mine]

It really boils down to legal agreements.   Articulation agreements are basically legal partnerships.   Some states do have universities that have entered into system wide agreements, but those are definitely not as prevalent as CC articulation agreements.  

 

But, transferring from one institution to another is typically never a 1-to-1 experience and losing credits is far more the norm.

 

Oh.  I just thought you were thinking I meant that they don't accept transfer credits from a different state's university which would be understandable.  

 

Yes, that's why it's an incredible perk when a state's universities accept their community colleges' credits.  Not all high school students take DE credits for this reason, but for those who want to transfer in-state and graduate in as short a time as possible, it's a great deal.