planner Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 DD's teacher started complaining about her not paying attention in class. I called a meeting and the teacher said he saw no problem and that she was like any other 4th grader in regards to paying attention. That totally confused me because he was sending me emails complaining about her. The school said she was fine and would do no testing. Because she takes forever to do her work and was having problems with multiplication facts, I decided to have her do psychoeducational testing with a local educational psychologist. The psychologist contacted me with some preliminary results. It turns out that she scores in the superior range in math reasoning and math calculation. She also scored in the 97th percentile in math on state testing last year. This is leaving me befuddled because she got a C in math on her latest report card and seems to get around 67% on most every math test. I'm trying to figure out how she could score so well on the testing and do so poorly in class. She denies having test anxiety and does well on history and science tests. She does Singapore math which has a good number of story problems. I'm not sure if there is a comprehension issue although the psychologist did say there is no indicator of learning problems. I don't think the material bores her. The concepts are all new to her. The psychologist thinks it would be helpful to observe her in math class. I tend to agree but dh doesn't think it's necessary. He thinks that since she scored superior there is no issue. I think that since she scored superior and doesn't perform superiorly in class, there is an issue. Would you pursue this further and do you have any insight as to what the disconnect may be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catz Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 I am a math major that got high grades through high school and college math, but got mediocre grades in grade school math. The reason was that the grade school curriculum my school used was very process oriented and rote (vs. being more conceptual). I do think learning your facts, etc is important and gaining some speed. But I do think many schools turn some very mathy kids off of math by making it more about how fast you can crank out a page of multiplication vs. how well you can think and set up a complex problem. Anyway - I would suspect the curriculum used at the school is just not oriented to her learning style. Both my kids are strong conceptual math students but a little slow and sloppy at the computational stuff. I'm not sure it would be interesting or not to observe her actually IN class? Maybe her eyes glaze over and she's thinking of 10,000 other things because that's pretty much how my elementary years went and definitely played into our decision to homeschool. Especially if she's being disruptive to some degree. Good chance she's not engaged in the classroom Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amy in NH Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 I'd call it an issue when the achievement doesn't line up with the ability. I'd guess she's bored and has stopped paying attention (like the teacher says). It is puzzling that he sees it as enough of a problem to email you about it more than once but not enough of a problem to warrant investigation when pushed during a team meeting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 A lot of parents are seeing this with the roll-out of common core. The kids are not understanding what they are being asked to do, regardless of whether they are good at the underlying subject matter. Do you know how the other kids in the class are doing on those specific tests? Did you ask specifically why you are getting these notes if there is no problem? That would bug me too. Sometimes I feel like the teacher has to say something negative no matter what. (My kid used to struggle, but now she's doing fine on classwork, so the teacher has to complain about how long she takes to get dressed for recess.) Or maybe the teacher just wants you to back him up on the guidance he's giving your daughter in school. So I would ask, what kind of help does he want from you when he sends you these notes? Does he want you to do xyz or something else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Library Momma Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 I don't think you can correlate state tests with what individual schools teach. My children go to a school where 95% of the students exceed state goals for the state standardized tests for both math and reading. There are plenty of schools in the state with similar numbers. That being said, in my son's 3rd grade class last last year the kids "on grade level" were the lowest reading group. Your school could just be ahead of the curve. They may be far ahead of the basic state standards, and the level of challenge in the classroom is more intense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 I don't think you can correlate state tests with what individual schools teach. My children go to a school where 95% of the students exceed state goals for the state standardized tests for both math and reading. There are plenty of schools in the state with similar numbers. That being said, in my son's 3rd grade class last last year the kids "on grade level" were the lowest reading group. Your school could just be ahead of the curve. They may be far ahead of the basic state standards, and the level of challenge in the classroom is more intense. True. My eldest is in 2nd grade, and her reading level is early 3rd grade. She is in Title I tutoring. Apparently most of her classmates are well ahead of the curve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erin Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 She also scored in the 97th percentile in math on state testing last year. This is leaving me befuddled because she got a C in math on her latest report card and seems to get around 67% on most every math test. Intelligence has nothing whatsoever to do with grades. Grades are a measure of diligence and hard work. There are a myriad of reasons why a kid won't be diligent about classwork and studying, but that's why the disconnect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planner Posted January 24, 2014 Author Share Posted January 24, 2014 A lot of parents are seeing this with the roll-out of common core. The kids are not understanding what they are being asked to do, regardless of whether they are good at the underlying subject matter. Do you know how the other kids in the class are doing on those specific tests? Did you ask specifically why you are getting these notes if there is no problem? That would bug me too. Sometimes I feel like the teacher has to say something negative no matter what. (My kid used to struggle, but now she's doing fine on classwork, so the teacher has to complain about how long she takes to get dressed for recess.) Or maybe the teacher just wants you to back him up on the guidance he's giving your daughter in school. So I would ask, what kind of help does he want from you when he sends you these notes? Does he want you to do xyz or something else? She's at a charter which as far as I know has not modified anything for the common core. When I talk to other parents, they all indicate that their child is doing well on the tests. I think the teacher is one to complain. He likes to send out group emails that basically state, "Your children suck because…." I was just getting my own personal emails about why my child sucks. When I called him on it in a group meeting, he certainly backed down but it doesn't explain why he took the time to email me in the first place. I don't think you can correlate state tests with what individual schools teach. My children go to a school where 95% of the students exceed state goals for the state standardized tests for both math and reading. There are plenty of schools in the state with similar numbers. That being said, in my son's 3rd grade class last last year the kids "on grade level" were the lowest reading group. Your school could just be ahead of the curve. They may be far ahead of the basic state standards, and the level of challenge in the classroom is more intense. The school is definitely accelerated. The challenge is intense. She rises to the occasion for everything but math. Intelligence has nothing whatsoever to do with grades. Grades are a measure of diligence and hard work. There are a myriad of reasons why a kid won't be diligent about classwork and studying, but that's why the disconnect. That's just it. She is diligent in her school work except perhaps while at school??? I do extra practice with her. I can send her to school ready for a test and she will still get her average 67% even though she could do a practice test with me and get all the problems correct the previous night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 She is diligent in her school work except perhaps while at school??? I do extra practice with her. I can send her to school ready for a test and she will still get her average 67% even though she could do a practice test with me and get all the problems correct the previous night. I have observed this in my daughter as well. I really do not know why. I wish the teacher could observe how well she works with me (and with her aunt too) at home. She would have a whole different impression. Recently my kid did great on a pretest, but then she bombed the almost identical "actual" test days later, despite lots more practice. Test anxiety? A noise in the room? A different amount of sugar or sleep or an itch somewhere? Who knows.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomatHWTK Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Processing speed and/or ADHD could be causes, but it would take more testing and deeper evaluations to figure out and it could be something far simpler like test anxiety or environmental factors. No easy answers. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 DD's teacher started complaining about her not paying attention in class. I called a meeting and the teacher said he saw no problem and that she was like any other 4th grader in regards to paying attention. That totally confused me because he was sending me emails complaining about her. The school said she was fine and would do no testing. .... The psychologist contacted me with some preliminary results. It turns out that she scores in the superior range in math reasoning and math calculation. She also scored in the 97th percentile in math on state testing last year. This is leaving me befuddled because she got a C in math on her latest report card and seems to get around 67% on most every math test. .... The psychologist thinks it would be helpful to observe her in math class. I tend to agree but dh doesn't think it's necessary. How I see it is that the teacher is "annoyed" enough to complain about it to you about the attention issues. But the attention issues are not serious enough in the school's point of view to warrant a ADHD evaluation. Did you get to see her math tests? It really depends on what pulls the marks down, careless mistakes which can be due to question being too easy or concept mistakes. My kid with obvious sensory issues performs the best under state testing conditions when the examination room is totally silent and he can proceed as fast as he like. I agree that having the psychologist observe her in class would help. Did the psychologist have any observation time on top of running the tests? It would be good for the psychologist to observe her in different environments. I have the reverse problem, my kids put their best effort on outside tests but don't do so well for me. Even if the math concepts are new, it can still be boring. For example if a child catch on to the concept within the first few minutes of class, the rest of the time the child might be daydreaming or looking around bored. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planner Posted January 24, 2014 Author Share Posted January 24, 2014 Processing speed and/or ADHD could be causes, but it would take more testing and deeper evaluations to figure out and it could be something far simpler like test anxiety or environmental factors. No easy answers. :( She did 5 hours of testing. Psychologist is saying there is no indication of ADHD or any other learning problems. I thought maybe there was an auditory processing issue which is why I had her do the evaluation. She denies test anxiety and since she regularly scores well on vocabulary and science tests, I think she's right. Environmental factors could be an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planner Posted January 24, 2014 Author Share Posted January 24, 2014 How I see it is that the teacher is "annoyed" enough to complain about it to you about the attention issues. But the attention issues are not serious enough in the school's point of view to warrant a ADHD evaluation. Did you get to see her math tests? It really depends on what pulls the marks down, careless mistakes which can be due to question being too easy or concept mistakes. My kid with obvious sensory issues performs the best under state testing conditions when the examination room is totally silent and he can proceed as fast as he like. I agree that having the psychologist observe her in class would help. Did the psychologist have any observation time on top of running the tests? It would be good for the psychologist to observe her in different environments. I have the reverse problem, my kids put their best effort on outside tests but don't do so well for me. Even if the math concepts are new, it can still be boring. For example if a child catch on to the concept within the first few minutes of class, the rest of the time the child might be daydreaming or looking around bored. I do see the math tests. Many of the mistakes are computational errors. Math facts are an issue with her, imo. Other times, the mistakes involve not answering the right question. She's either not reading the question close enough or she's misunderstanding the question. Not sure which one though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 . She denies test anxiety and since she regularly scores well on vocabulary and science tests, I think she's right. Environmental factors could be an issue. Test anxiety can be "teacher induced" or subject induced. So a child can score low for a teacher that somehow "upset" the child. I had a 5th grade teacher I didn't like once because she was condescending, I had Cs that year for her subject just because I wasn't interested in doing well for her class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Another thought - the teacher might be defensive because such a smart kid is not getting good scores in his class. So he's deflecting potential blame "you are not teaching the material" by saying "she isn't listening to what I'm teaching." That could explain why he's complaining even though her behavior is not outside a reasonable range for 4th grade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomatHWTK Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 I used to get bad grades sometimes in basic math because I reversed numbers or misread them. I learned to go back and rework every problem during a test to make sure I hadn't worked it using the wrong numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planner Posted January 25, 2014 Author Share Posted January 25, 2014 Are they using MIF? (I have a possible theory if that is the case...) Not sure what MIF is. They use Singapore Math. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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