Talk to me about Spielvogel (please :o)

[Camy-7 boybarians 1 lady]

Is this one of those "absolute must-haves" for high school history study?

 

I need to know before I fork out the cash for it.

 

I've been quite happy and content w/ our Kingfisher history reference book (survey style).

 

What additional information does Spielvogel's Western Civ. provide (in a nutshell) that is not attainable from other resources.

 

Your experiences and input would be greatly appreciated.

 

Blessings,

 

Camy

[Jane in NC]

Camy -

 

I am not sure if anything is a "must have" in this world, but Spielvogel's Western Civ is a nice, complete, and well respected volume that you can pick up on the cheap. An older edition may suit your purposes. There is no charge to access most of the accompanying online activities which may simplify your life if you would like to have some sample essay questions, vocabulary, etc. for the chapters.

 

Note: Western Civ is not a world history. If you are purchasing one book only, you may want an alternative title. But I found that Western Civ dovetailed nicely with the WTM list.

 

Jane

[Nan in Mass]

When he reached high school, he began reading Spielvogel (just reading and the occasional essay). He likes it. He says some history books that he's looked at just repeat what he's already learned from Kingfisher, but that Spielvogel is actually teaching him something new. He likes all the illustrations and the bits of primary sources. I wouldn't say it was necessary, but if you want something that picks up where Kingfisher leaves off, you might like this. We got a used version cheaply online.

-Nan

[Lori D.]

We got a 1999 version of Spielvogel's Human Odyssey (which is the high school text) last year for about $12 (including shipping) from Amazon's used book listings.

 

- More in depth than the Kingfisher which was great for gr. 5-8, maybe 9th, but still leaves us time for other books/resources.

- Not too big a jump up as Spielvogel's Western Civ. (a college level text).

- A lot of interesting excerpts from source documents or writers of the time.

- A reasonable amount of illustrations, photos and sidebars to keep it interesting.

- Human Odyssey is "more global" that Spielvogel's Western Civ. -- it includes more on India, China, and other non-western areas of the world.

- Has 4-6 question review after every 4-8 pages, plus a lengthy review and discussion question section at the end of each chapter -- you could easily use selected questions from those as quizzes/tests, or writing assignment ideas.

- Covers ancients through modern times, so we can use it over 4 years:

1. 190 pages for 1 unit (6 chapters), ancient world history

2. 214 pages for 1 unit (7 chapters),medieval world history

3. 380 pages for 2 units (11 chapters), 1400-1914 world history

4. 325 pages for 2 units (10 chapters) on modern world history

 

 

Here is a link to Human Odyssey on Amazon; the used ones are availabled for as little as $3+shipping! http://www.amazon.com/World-History-Jackson-J-Spielvogel/dp/0538423293/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1218840022&sr=8-1

 

BEST of luck, whatever you go with. Warm regards, Lori D.

[Jill- OK]

Is this one of those "absolute must-haves" for high school history study?

 

 

...but I absolutely love Spielvogel's World History: A Human Odyssey.

 

Great resource, and it has a wider scope (IMO) than the Western Civ. book. (We're doing Great Books, a la WTM, so I still feel that we're getting somewhat of a Western Civ. focus).

 

It's also more accessible (again, my opinion). Not that encouraging the use of difficult texts isn't good, but since we're doing some heavy reading/discussing/writing, in our world literature that's going along with this, I wanted the history to be somewhat easy...and even enjoyable.

 

This just fits the bill for us.

[Jenny in Atl]

We are using his HO this year in place of SOTW for SL 7. So far we really like it. I got it dirt cheap of Amazon along with the TE.

[Laurie in CA]

:iagree:

Human Odyssey is a great resource and interesting to read. I using it to supplement my Tapestry of Grace curriculum.

[Kelli in TN]

My copy of Western Civ was about eight bucks and came with notes in the margins at no extra charge.

 

We have really liked it. We use it alongside A Short History of Western Civ (the recommendation from the first edition of WTM) and Notgrass (for easy readability)

[Camy-7 boybarians 1 lady]

That Spielvogel offers a beneficial resource/supplement to high school history studies, and is a bit more detailed than Kingfisher. I assumed this was true, but had to hear from the experts.

 

Some of you posted links to reasonably priced options, as opposed to the new, expensive copies. Thanks! I'm in the process of filling my Amazon cart w/ goodies.

 

The older my kids get (uh...and "me", too) makes me realize how much I appreciate you guys even more. Can't I just take you all out for coffee and we can chat more about Spielvogel (why do I always want to put the "e" before the "i" when I type that? LOL) along w/ WTM history?

 

Thanks a bunch!

 

Blessings,

Camy

[Beth in SW WA]

and is a bit more detailed than Kingfisher.

 

Tons more detailed than KF, especially Western Civ. Its meaty. I'm loving it.

[anissarobert]

I recently purchased CWB's new Ancient History book, so I was going to skip buying Spielvogel for my 9th grader, but you all convinced me too. I bought Western Civ. this morning at a curriculum sale, for $15. I love a good deal.:)

[Jill- OK]

:iagree:

Human Odyssey is a great resource and interesting to read. I using it to supplement my Tapestry of Grace curriculum.

 

I'm sort of supplementing HO with TOG. :-) (I know, most folks use it as their main source, but I'm focusing primarily on SOTW for Littles, and HO for Bigs, and kind of using TOG as my teacher's notes, and to fill in the blanks with writing, discussion, etc.)

 

It was a bit of juggling...but they work together pretty nicely!

[hswarden]

I got one for 87 cents on amazon, but it was only through 1600. Still.

[Colleen]

There seems to be a split here among those who prefer the Human Odyssey text and those who opt for World Civ. I would like to get one or the other but I'm somewhat confused. HO is one book, right? And, some think, it's more manageable for high schoolers and has a wider scope. World Civ as recommended in the revised edition of TWTM consists of two textbooks. But from the comments here, it sounds like one book. And then, what about different editions of these books. Does that matter? When I went to Amazon and typed in Spielvogel's name, I got an array of listings so I could use some clarification. Thanks!:)

[Colleen]

We are using his HO this year in place of SOTW for SL 7. So far we really like it. I got it dirt cheap of Amazon along with the TE.

 

I'd be interested in this, but as I said in my post below, I'm sorta confused as to the different Spielvogel books. I also feel like a loser knowing you've added this to Core 7 while I'm settling for having my son use the Core as-is.:o Ack.

[Jill- OK]

World Civ as recommended in the revised edition of TWTM consists of two textbooks. But from the comments here, it sounds like one book.

 

...a comprehensive (one volume) edition of Western Civ. I believe, and then a split version, with two volumes. (Someone please jump in and correct me if I'm wrong, here).

 

The book I owned (and sold) was one volume. I don't know if there are significant differences between the two-volume and one-volume editions.

[Colleen]

One volume would satisfy me, and I'm thinking it should be HO. My problem is that I have this aversion to buying used books online. I worry they'll be smelly and icky.:tongue_smilie: I bought this used art book off Amazon last year that Peela recommended ~ and am so glad I did ~ and it too me forever to choose a used copy based on the minimal descriptions. Silly, I know, but there ya go.

[Beth in SW WA]

There seems to be a split here among those who prefer the Human Odyssey text and those who opt for World Civ. COLOR]

 

Western Civ is excellent. I plan to buy HO as soon as I find it for a good price (hint, hint) :)

 

Spielvogel has a great writing style. I look forward to reading HO w/ my kiddos. Dc will read snippits of Western Civ, but will read HO cover-to-cover.

 

Having both volumes will be an excellent addition to our homeschool library. I still reference my college history textbooks. Never too many...

[Camy-7 boybarians 1 lady]

I just got Human Odyssey in the mail today (used from Amazon marketplace), and it is in fine shape. A huge, hardcovered textbook, reminiscent of a high school history book, which in actuality, it is. However, it looks quite interesting. I paid under $10 for it (ppd.)

 

Blessings,

Camy

[MommyThrice]

I have the Western Civ text that I bought for only $1 (plus shipping) from Abe books. It has lots of great source documents in the body of the text that other spines don't have. However, it doesn't hold back on some of the more perverted thoughts throughout history, sometimes even poking fun at Christian morals and standards.

 

It is a good resource, but I wouldn't just turn my child loose with it.

[Colleen]

I just got Human Odyssey in the mail today (used from Amazon marketplace), and it is in fine shape. A huge, hardcovered textbook, reminiscent of a high school history book, which in actuality, it is. However, it looks quite interesting. I paid under $10 for it (ppd.)

 

Is HO going to be the spine for the twins' history studies? Would you mind telling me the ISBN on your copy? (Hehehe...like you're going to answer, "Yes, I mind." LOL)

[Colleen]

Spielvogel has a great writing style. I look forward to reading HO w/ my kiddos. Dc will read snippits of Western Civ, but will read HO cover-to-cover.

 

Sounds good!

 

Having both volumes will be an excellent addition to our homeschool library. I still reference my college history textbooks.

 

That's interesting. I minored in history, but my courses didn't involve this kind of reading. I guess because of that, I tend to think of textbooks as used more for high school, while in college you move on to other resources. Although it makes sense that one would have a comprehensive text for an introductory level class.

[Christine]

Western Civ is excellent. I plan to buy HO as soon as I find it for a good price (hint, hint) :)

 

Spielvogel has a great writing style. I look forward to reading HO w/ my kiddos. Dc will read snippits of Western Civ, but will read HO cover-to-cover.

 

Having both volumes will be an excellent addition to our homeschool library. I still reference my college history textbooks. Never too many...

 

Okay, I know Nah-ssing!

 

However, I read a review on Amazon, and the reviewer seems to have read both the Western Civilization (the single combined volume) and History Odyssey. According to this review, everything that is in HO is also in Western Civilization, but in more depth.

 

I had originally decided with HO, but after reading that, am now going with Western Civilization. I did go over the table of contents for both, and they do seem to cover the same stuff, but I don't know to what extent. . .

 

So, I'm just relating what I've read. As I said, I'm not speaking from 1st hand knowledge.

[Camy-7 boybarians 1 lady]

World History: The Human Odyssey by Jackson J. Spielvogel

Copyright 1999 West Publishing Company

ISBN 0-538-42329-3

 

Yep, we are using this book as our spine for history (M&N). I think my 11 yo bright guy will like it, too. I am also using SWB's freshman year reading list from TWTM (12 selections).

 

What is really cool is that I already had most of those recommended ancient literature resources on my shelf. I knew my college years studying art history and the humanities (and lack of a bachelor's degree..LOL) would not go to waste (grin).

 

BTW, Jean in Wisconsin has a scheduled guide to using The Human Odyssey. You could go to her blog "Shades of White" or I could email my downloaded version to you. Just drop me an email if you'd like it sent.

[Julie in CA]

I bought used copies of both HO and Western Civ.

Although I would be hard-pressed to tell you why, I preferred the Western Civ. and re-sold the HO. I like the online study options for Western Civ. too, and my 9th grader will be doing the first volume along with the online content this year.

[Jenny in Atl]

 

I'd be interested in this, but as I said in my post below, I'm sorta confused as to the different Spielvogel books. I also feel like a loser knowing you've added this to Core 7 while I'm settling for having my son use the Core as-is.:o Ack.

 

 

We tried to use SOTW again, but Mac has read it and listen to it so many times that she was bored. She loves history and really wanted more of a challenge. We had used History Odyssey last year and she was not a fan of Story of Mankind. She did like Gombrich's A Little History of the World, but again it was not meaty enough, and she read ahead and finished it.

 

So, I had alread purchased Spielvogel's HO for High School (0-538-42329-3 student ed & 0-538-42330-7 TE). They were just sitting there and I let her read a section on the time period we had started. She loved it! The sections are interesting, have depth and the questions are challenging. She really likes it, so we have not looked back. That said, I am having her read SOTW to Fi, as I am using it along with SL 3 for her. :D

[TheLisa]

Spielvogel's Western Civ for MIDDLE/HIGH SCHOOL? ROTFL!

 

Our community college uses that text. We always hear commentary on the state of public ed vs homeschooling, but this is the first time I've seen the actual textbooks used at such different levels.

 

I hear that it is a good basic text. Someone (I forgot where) actually said that every homeschooling PARENT should read it before teaching history.

[Camy-7 boybarians 1 lady]

This was my understanding as well. That Western Civ. was more of a college text, and that The Human Odyssey may be more appropriate for high school level.

 

Blessings,

 

Camy

[Heather in Savannah]

My dd used this text last year, and will again this year (I have her using a Christian text and HO, and have split everything into 2 - Ancients to Middle Ages, and then Renaissance/Reformation to Modern and spread it out over 2 years). I find that some of the questions asked in the student text reviews at the end of each chapter, ask very leading questions which presupposes a particular perspective. Rather than asking the student if they think an event was ethically right/wrong and to justify their answer, things are phrased in such a way as to lead the student to assume that the action was wrong and asks them to state why. Anyways, that's my concern, but I will counteract this by helping her to see the assumptions.

[Beth in SW WA]

I have the Western Civ text that I bought for only $1 (plus shipping) from Abe books. It has lots of great source documents in the body of the text that other spines don't have. However, it doesn't hold back on some of the more perverted thoughts throughout history, sometimes even poking fun at Christian morals and standards.

 

It is a good resource, but I wouldn't just turn my child loose with it.

 

MommyThrice,

Do you have some specifics? I'm rusty on history and probably wouldn't catch Spielvogel poking fun. I actually assumed he was religious, in some way, because he seemed so fair regarding the Church.

 

I found this old article about him. He's handsome!

 

http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive/1999/04/04-22-99tdc/04-22-99dnews-8.asp

[Beth in SW WA]

Spielvogel's Western Civ for MIDDLE/HIGH SCHOOL? ROTFL!

 

Someone (I forgot where) actually said that every homeschooling PARENT should read it before teaching history.

 

Oh good, I'm actually doing something right! :)

[ChrisN in NY]

My dd used this text last year, and will again this year (I have her using a Christian text and HO, and have split everything into 2 - Ancients to Middle Ages, and then Renaissance/Reformation to Modern and spread it out over 2 years). I find that some of the questions asked in the student text reviews at the end of each chapter, ask very leading questions which presupposes a particular perspective. Rather than asking the student if they think an event was ethically right/wrong and to justify their answer, things are phrased in such a way as to lead the student to assume that the action was wrong and asks them to state why. Anyways, that's my concern, but I will counteract this by helping her to see the assumptions.

 

Heather,

 

Would you mind sharing what Christian text you're using?

 

Thanks!

[Heather in Savannah]

Chris,

The Christian text my dd is using is Notgrass World History, which is a 2 book text. I find that Notgrass does not ask enough Critical Thinking type of questions. It asks a lot of leading questions as well, but from a totally opposite perspective....just can't make me happy! LOL! Anyways, I figure that if she reads the same material from two different perspectives, that her ability to think critically will increase.

[MommyThrice]

When I opened this book for the first time, here's what I found. A large, 3/4 page excerpt from "Diderot Questions Christian Sexual Standards." If you're not familiar with it (I wasn't) Diderot, an enlightenment philosopher, created a dialogue between a Tahitian, Orou, and a chaplain concerning sexual standards. Orou remarks to the chaplain that he (the chaplain) needs a woman to sleep with and offers his younger girl, who has not yet had any children. The chaplain refuses. Orou explains that the Christian religion forbids partaking of an innocent pleasure of Nature. "It seems to prevent you from bringing one of your fellow creatures into the world, from doing a favor asked of by a father... Look at the distress you have caused to appear on the faces of these four women - they are afraid you have noticed some defect in them that arouses your distaste..." The chaplain tries to explain that sex is reserved for marriage but, of course, he just ends up sounding foolish. Orou concludes, "I don't know what your great workman (God) is, but I am very happy that he never spoke to our fore-fathers, and I hope that ne never speaks to our children, for if he does, he may tell them the same foolishness, and they may be foolish enough to believe it..."

 

That is the end of the excerpt.

 

I realize that in this instance, it is Diderot, not Spielvogel, that is poking fun at Christianity. However, that is where the article ends. There is no rebuttal from a Christian point-of-view. In fact, in the text on Diderot, this writing isn't even mentioned. It talks about his most famous works, but this is just stuck there with no commentary whatsoever.

 

HTH

[Beth in SW WA]

Thanks MommyThrice,

I'll keep my eyes peeled as I'm reading Western Civ. I'm half-way through the book and re-reading the section on the High Middle Ages (I love how he refers to it that way). He seems so fair. I'll be looking for any bias, now that you've mentioned it.