My 7-yo dd is seriously ADHD

[EmilyGF]

OK, so I know I'm not supposed to diagnose this on my own, but here's what I see:

 

- she can't sit on her bottom (she can climb on the back of the chair or crouch, but not sit)

- at her birthday party today, she finished every art project waaaaay before anyone else and then spent the time crouching, jumping, and climbing,

- she loves reading, but never reads sitting down - often reads while balancing standing on the back of the couch

 

not sure if this is related but

- she cannot use silverware - it is a constant struggle to get her to not eat with her fingers. Her 5-yo sister has been using knife and for for over a year easily.

- she is totally tactile - she is the sort that strokes arms

- everything I say goes in one ear and out the other, but she will follow through if given a written list

 

She is really insightful into people's emotions (and good at manipulating people!) and she can hold a conversation with anyone - recent "awkward" moments for our other kids where she had no problem were at a homeless dinner where she joined a table and learned to play dominos, on the couch with four college students, and with a random family last night after a concert.

 

I do find it interesting that she crouches on chairs when she is required to sit for a long time; for instance, at a concert last night or in Sunday School. My 8-yo and 5-yo are completely different.

 

I do require her to sit for handwriting, but otherwise let her be in any position she wants. Not sure if this is the way to go, but  then again research seems to show that sitting for long periods is unhealthy.

 

Do you have a child like this? 

 

Emily

[kbutton]

It's entirely possible that she has sensory issues (arm rubbing, preferring unusual bodily orientations, being very tactile), that's she's gifted (read up on overexcitabilities and high need for stimulation), that she's a kinesthetic or visual spatial learner, or that she has auditory processing problems (verbal instructions aren't helpful). I hear no seriously negative repercussions to her perpetual motion except that it might be inconvenient (you could be framing this more positively than it really is). If she's doing all these things instead of what she's supposed to do, that's a very different thing.

 

Except for the volume of activity, the trouble with silverware, and being very tactile, you could be describing my son who has auditory issues, is likely gifted, likes to be active but is totally able to do what he needs to, and is extroverted but doesn't likely have ADHD. The issues with silverware, being tactile are issues that my other son with sensory issues has. Both of my boys squat or squatted regularly instead of sitting or standing. If she does have sensory issues, crouching on top of a chair can be a way of putting deep pressure on her legs and joints--deep pressure is soothing to some kids with sensory issues.

 

Just some other possibilities...could be ADHD also, but it's not my first guess. Also, ADHD is supposed to be a diagnosis of exclusion--you turn to it after exhausting the other possibilities. That doesn't often happen IRL, but it's supposed to be that way.

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

It's entirely possible that she has sensory issues (arm rubbing, preferring unusual bodily orientations, being very tactile), that's she's gifted (read up on overexcitabilities and high need for stimulation), that she's a kinesthetic or visual spatial learner, or that she has auditory processing problems (verbal instructions aren't helpful). I hear no seriously negative repercussions to her perpetual motion except that it might be inconvenient (you could be framing this more positively than it really is). If she's doing all these things instead of what she's supposed to do, that's a very different thing.

 

Except for the volume of activity, the trouble with silverware, and being very tactile, you could be describing my son who has auditory issues, is likely gifted, likes to be active but is totally able to do what he needs to, and is extroverted but doesn't likely have ADHD. The issues with silverware, being tactile are issues that my other son with sensory issues has. Both of my boys squat or squatted regularly instead of sitting or standing. If she does have sensory issues, crouching on top of a chair can be a way of putting deep pressure on her legs and joints--deep pressure is soothing to some kids with sensory issues.

 

Just some other possibilities...could be ADHD also, but it's not my first guess. Also, ADHD is supposed to be a diagnosis of exclusion--you turn to it after exhausting the other possibilities. That doesn't often happen IRL, but it's supposed to be that way.

 

Agreeing with the above, thankfully we found a specialist who diagnosed by excluding everything else first. Not saying that it can't be ADHD but there are many other possibilities.

[wapiti]

My initial thoughts were the same as kbutton's.  Feel free to ask on the Learning Challenges board.  What i see in your post are possible sensory (motor and other) concerns, but i don't see actual attention issues in what you wrote.  To learn more about adhd, you might start by googling the DSM criteria (i have no idea whether the criteria changed  with the new edition)

[waa510]

I'll agree that my first thought was sensory seeking. I agree with wapiti in googling the latest DSM criteria ( you're looking for #5).

[Mbelle]

hmmm...my son sounds like this.  He also has insomnia.  He CAN get his work done quickly if I set timers etc..  He's 11 and I still squats to eat, until reminded.  Also would prefer to eat with hands, but is realizing he's 11.  He's a real sweetheart though.

[chelsmm]

You just described my 6 year old son.  He is in OT for sensory issues, nothing diagnosed officially, but he is definitely sensory seeking.  I wouldn't call my son ADHD, I think it's more sensory with maybe some other stuff thrown in.  ;)

 

My son does have lower than normal tone, weak core, and hyperflexible joints too, so that explains some of his inability to sit still or sit upright.

 

Anwways, I agree with what the others wrote. 

[PeterPan]

Yeah, you need to start with some evals before you assume.  There are retained primitive reflexes that could cause the not sitting and sensory issues you're describing.  Those aren't symptoms we've ever had in our house.  In fact none of the symptoms you listed are.

 

You would get an OT eval to check for retained primitive reflexes and sensory stuff.

[EmilyGF]

I think what you've said about sensory issues makes sense - she also used to be picky about only wearing soft pants and is very sensitive to spicy foods. (Malava stop made her seriously throw up when we used it on day one for thumb sucking. We didn't need a day two.)

 

I don't know that I necessarily need/want to do anything about this. It doesn't seem to stop us from doing anything we want to do, it only seems problematic at a fancy dinner (say, Thanksgiving), and I noticed today at her birthday party how she was getting done on everything early.

 

I sort of wanted to get it off my chest since I usually just ignore it.

 

Emily

[Mommy_of_4]

Sounds like my son who has been diagnosed with sensory processing disorder.

[PeterPan]

I think what you've said about sensory issues makes sense - she also used to be picky about only wearing soft pants and is very sensitive to spicy foods. (Malava stop made her seriously throw up when we used it on day one for thumb sucking. We didn't need a day two.)

 

I don't know that I necessarily need/want to do anything about this. It doesn't seem to stop us from doing anything we want to do, it only seems problematic at a fancy dinner (say, Thanksgiving), and I noticed today at her birthday party how she was getting done on everything early.

 

I sort of wanted to get it off my chest since I usually just ignore it.

 

Emily

Well you could do like I did and wait till the kid is 12 and outgrowing all the OT equipment.  Or you could wait till they're 15 and they buck you and won't even go.

 

Seriously, just go.  If you've got sensory symptoms, GET THE EVALS.  OT was an AWESOME eval process for us.  You get somebody who is SIPT (sensory) certified, and for us she answered SO many questions and connected SO many dots.  I also don't think  you realize what's going.  See if she has retained primitive reflexes underlying why she won't sit, it's not merely a matter of personal preference and accommodation, though those things are awesome.  Proper integration of the primitive reflexes allows all the rest of the neurological system to develop.  When you glitch that up early on, you get a CASCADE.  So what you're dealing with NOW isn't the end of it.  It can get WORSE or you can have other things develop later that you don't realize are related.

 

She's young.  You can intervene now, catch it early, and prevent problems.  Like I said, I waited till my kid was 12 and it's really a THUNK why did no one make me do this earlier kind of thing.  OT for kids this age is FUN.  You'll get answers and it might actually make your lives better or prevent problems.

[Rosie_0801]

If you want to start with the retained primitive reflexes, there are a couple easy to begin with at home. 

If you can't tickle her palms with a paintbrush 40 times with no reaction more severe than "that's annoying," keep doing it several times a day until you consistently can. Same with the balls of her feet. Also try running your finger down the side of her spine. If she moves or shrugs, she's got a retained spinal galant.

[PeterPan]

She's only 7 yrs old. You are mom and know your kid but it really bothers me the way people throw around the diagnosis like ADHD or ADD without being a medical doctor. Believe it or not there are many other challenges, growth hurdles that kids go through without lumping it into the common diagnosis. Talk to your doctor.

Yeah and then the ped does an EF screening, listens to a few symptoms, and dispenses meds. You can get a wrong diagnosis that way too (which I'm assuming you already know).  She'll probably go through her ped to get a referral on the OT, so no matter what she's seeing her doc.  I just wouldn't take anything the ped says as the full story.  

[Rosie_0801]

 I just wouldn't take anything the ped says as the full story.  

 

Heck no. Ours diagnosed me as a bimbo in denial, can you believe? :svengo:

[TianXiaXueXiao]

Whether or not she has ADHD or sensory issues, she sounds like a really fun person to be around and she would fit in well with my two girls. I didn't read anything that you described as alarming or worrisome. She sounds like a character who marches to her own beat, but can assimilate to usual conventions when necessary. I am not ADHD and I'm 38 years old and still cannot handle chairs. I would squat at the dinner table (and do when I'm alone) if it was acceptable by society. I swear chairs are torture devices! 

 

[PeterPan]

Heck no. Ours diagnosed me as a bimbo in denial, can you believe? :svengo:

Oh my stinkin' lands.  Like you BROUGHT 'EM IN.  What more do they want?  Bow down and let the almighty doctors and gov't decide everything and raise them the whole way?  Oh yeah, that's what they do want.  And yes, the first SLP I visited gave me the worried mother routine.  She said they'd work on "communication" (not talking, communication, code for I can't really help your kid so I'll take your $100 an hour anyway) and just acted like I was jumping the gun.  I left and found somebody who actually knew apraxia who sat down with him and had him TALKING the first day.  Not communicating, talking.  

 

I think these people get degrees and develop a god-complex sometimes, seriously.  That's not nice to say, but wowsers.  And with as many practitioners as there are out there who will take your money and NOT actually get results because they DON'T actually know the right techniques (but will take your money anyway!!!) it's NO WONDER moms get skeptical or want to take their time.

[Guest thaivi]

She is an independent thinker with strong character.  My son was like that too but I put in lots of time thinking of ways to "suggest" ideas to him so that it makes sense and he felt better if he is in control.  Lots of time and energy but maturity will come.

[kbutton]

Oh my stinkin' lands.  Like you BROUGHT 'EM IN.  What more do they want?  Bow down and let the almighty doctors and gov't decide everything and raise them the whole way?  Oh yeah, that's what they do want.  And yes, the first SLP I visited gave me the worried mother routine.  She said they'd work on "communication" (not talking, communication, code for I can't really help your kid so I'll take your $100 an hour anyway) and just acted like I was jumping the gun.  I left and found somebody who actually knew apraxia who sat down with him and had him TALKING the first day.  Not communicating, talking.  

 

I think these people get degrees and develop a god-complex sometimes, seriously.  That's not nice to say, but wowsers.  And with as many practitioners as there are out there who will take your money and NOT actually get results because they DON'T actually know the right techniques (but will take your money anyway!!!) it's NO WONDER moms get skeptical or want to take their time.

 

Let us know what you really think, Elizabeth! :lol:Wink, wink. I have to say that with a family member in healthcare, hearing from both sides still reinforces to me that some really do have a god complex. Some also just don't know when to say "when" and pass you onto to someone else who knows what to do about your problem. Some pass the buck whenever possible (like a hot potato). It's a real mixed bag.

[Mbelle]

So, I mentioned this thread to DH last night.  We both had some sensory issues as kids..maybe adults.  DH said he thinks that's why he smoked.  He knew it was bad and didn't really like it.  I don't know..I was a kid in the 70's so there was no ADHD, but I was fidgety in the classroom and flipped and flopped and did backbends in my desk (the old fashioned kind where the chair is stuck to the desk part).  I also hated the tags in clothes and seam on socks..  He's very smart and he's also very kind and sensitive.  When he's busy building something (lego's) he's very still and it calms him down.  He gets so jazzed up around a group of people you would not believe it.  I give him pep talks about taking it donw a couple of notches before we go somewhere.  However, he presents himself exceptionally well if he has to speak in public.  I could not believe it the first time I saw it.  He is really good at speaking and presenting in a very clear and positive way. 

 

 

[EmilyGF]

Thanks everyone for weighing in. I think my dd had had a few hyper days, before I posted, leading up to her birthday party, because I've been watching her like a hawk since I posted this and realized that, while she sometimes acts as above, she does sit on her bottom when not excited (but of course not at Thanksgiving with 13 people here, when it was noticed). My neighbors pointed out that she'll sit and read to their children for thirty minutes while holding the baby (doesn't do that here, of course, but no little bittle baby to hold here, either). I think I've noticed her "off" behavior because it is odd, and then just don't bother noticing when it is normal. She is super sensitive to tastes - unless really hungry (ie no snacking) in which case she'll gobble up spicy things without any problem, so it does seem to be more of a preference.

 

Emily