Math Mammoth- Not Enough Instruction?

[IHaveNoIdeawhatIAmDoing]

We've gone through 1A and I'm concerned about the lack of instruction. We had a couple of issues with the Place Values section and it left me wondering if I can teach it for the long haul or if I need something more scripted. I love everything else about MM though, it's a great program. Should we look for something else or does it get more descriptive?

 

 

[boscopup]

The first chapter of 1B teaches you to use an abacus (if she hasn't changed that since we used it 3 years ago). That may be helpful to you in the place value department.

[IHaveNoIdeawhatIAmDoing]

The first chapter of 1B teaches you to use an abacus (if she hasn't changed that since we used it 3 years ago). That may be helpful to you in the place value department.

 

I skimmed the first chapter of 1B, but I didn't see that. I may have to look closer.

 

My concern is more long term. I don't want to be curriculum-hopping, so I feel like now is the time to pick something that really works for us. I guess my question is, is that just how Math Mammoth is or is that how Grade 1 is, because there isn't a need for a lot of instruction?

[ErinE]

I skimmed the first chapter of 1B, but I didn't see that. I may have to look closer.

 

My concern is more long term. I don't want to be curriculum-hopping, so I feel like now is the time to pick something that really works for us. I guess my question is, is that just how Math Mammoth is or is that how Grade 1 is, because there isn't a need for a lot of instruction?

We've used MM through 5B. I found it had plenty of instruction, particularly on tricky concepts like fractions, ratios, and long division. I didn't see the need for much instruction in the first level, but much of our work was done with c-rods. Is the issue your child isn't understanding place value? There's games and websites in the front of each major section that you could explore.

[alisoncooks]

This was one of my problems with Math mammoth.  I tried it after Singapore and the comparison just wasn't favorable toward MM.  SM had hands-on, manipulatives-based teaching from the HIG, visual presentation via the textbook, and then workbook practice.  Jumping into MM, it felt like we were just doing workbook, that's it.  

[FairProspects]

This is actually one area where I think the revised version is worse than the original. The original 1A was often called boring because it hammered math facts home before moving into place value heavily in 1B, and while repetitive, IMO was a better progression for 1st grade. The revised version has moved some of the old 1B place value chapters into 1A to meet CC standards and I think it was a mistake. There is a lot more place value work than just that one chapter in 1B though, so I would keep going or get my hands on the old, unrevised version of 1B and I think you will have better success with the original scope and sequence.

[Chrysalis Academy]

There is definitely more teaching as the levels progress.  The "teaching boxes" at the beginning of the lessons that explain the concepts get more numerous and more detailed as you go on.  I'm using MM2 with my 2nd grader, and I notice that there is a lot less "teaching" in it than there was in MM4-6, which I used with my older dd.  So, I can't tell you whether there is enough teaching, but I can say that there is more of it as the concepts get more challenging in the later levels.  I've felt that there was enough so far, FWIW.

[boscopup]

Just looked at the CC version, and she has indeed removed the abacus section. Boo.

 

What sort of problems did you have with place value in 1A? Are you using manipulatives? A set of base-ten blocks used the same way as in the pictures on the page can be very helpful.

[Farrar]

We're on MM 4B here...  I haven't felt like it lacked instruction.  Sometimes I need to look ahead because I'm not sure where it's going what with all those intermediate steps.  But overall, it has been fine.

[ByGrace3]

Just looked at the CC version, and she has indeed removed the abacus section. Boo.

 

What sort of problems did you have with place value in 1A? Are you using manipulatives? A set of base-ten blocks used the same way as in the pictures on the page can be very helpful.

Hmmmm I need to go back and look. I did the first version with dd and the revised with ds. I thought place value was weak when I did it with my ds...I didn't realize it was changed. That's a bummer.

 

RSA did a great job for him so I wasn't concerned...but thinking ahead to little dd...I wonder if we should not do the revised one.

 

Also, my dd has not been using the revised but I was planning to do the revised 4th grade....maybe I shouldn't ...

 

Sorry, I meant to address the OP :)

We are finishing 3B and I have found it enough instruction. Though sometimes I have wondered and questioned it...it is so incremental that the little bit of instruction spread throughout has done the job well. My dd has an excellent grasp of concepts.

[boscopup]

Hmmmm I need to go back and look. I did the first version with dd and the revised with ds. I thought place value was weak when I did it with my ds...I didn't realize it was changed. That's a bummer.

 

I wouldn't have noticed weak place value, since DS1 had done Saxon K and 1 in school prior, and their morning meeting solidified place value. I used a similar technique with DS2 when he was in 4 - 100 chart, straws, coins... bundle the tens, exchange coins when able, emphasize place value (over and over, saying, "Twenty-three... 2 tens, 3 ones... twenty-three." :) By time we got somewhere in the mid-30s, DS2 fully understood, and he hasn't had an issue with place value since.

 

That reminds me... I should start that process with my current 4 year old, since he's cruising through Singapore EM K book B right now. :tongue_smilie:

 

[Eagle]

I find Singapore has much more instruction than MM if you follow the home educator's guide. I like MM, but I love Singapore. I have used both programs and I feel Singapore is more thorough (and more fun).

[clemota]

We finished up 1A recently - the new revised version.  She does talk about using an abacus in the intro to the third chapter.  Sections of the chapter itself where you use the abacus are marked with a mini-abacus on the right-hand side. 

We used the abacus for that section and keep it out for daily drills, and whatever other daily living math comes up.  DD thinks it's better than snap cubes or c-rods (heresy, I know!)

There may have been more in the unrevised version, but as I'm not familiar with it I can't compare.  I did find the instruction for this section to be more than enough for me and my dd, but then again, we regularly use a lot of hands-on manipulatives. 

[My3girls]

I have 2 in MM2 and one in MM6. They are doing fine with it. I like that they have to read it and look at the examples. If they need help, the first thing I have them do is read me the instructions, and 50% of the time or better the question goes away. The other 50% it's a quick 5-10 min talk, and the lightbulb goes on. I don't have a lot of time to teach an in depth math class so I love that this is primarily self- teaching, and it works.

 

Also, I have 2 that have created math journals and do math now for fun?! I now crazy, right? They definitely did not do that when they were in ps. Lol

[ErinE]

We used the abacus for that section and keep it out for daily drills, and whatever other daily living math comes up. DD thinks it's better than snap cubes or c-rods (heresy, I know!)

*whisper*

Just don't tell Bill.

[TheAutumnOak]

This is why I switched from MM to Rod and Staff. I wanted to just have something that would work from one year to the next. We're not dealing with any learning problems in math, so the need was to find somethin that worked exceptionally well for *me* as the teacher. MM was not it for me.

 

:iagree:  This...Exactly...

[Hunter]

AutumnOak, I love love love the new avatar!

[Jess4879]

We ran into this problem as well.  What worked, worked really, really well!  But if my kiddos didn't fully understand a topic, there was no help for me to teach it.  We ended up switching both kids to something else.  I can still see pulling out MM from time to time to show a different perspective, but we won't be doing it as a core.  I also found it way too workbooky, even with me adding in manipulatives, it just got boring. 

[IHaveNoIdeawhatIAmDoing]

Thanks for all of the input. After reading these responses and thinking it through, I think we'll be switching to either Rightstart or Singapore, at least for the early years.

[Walking-Iris]

We ran into this problem as well.  What worked, worked really, really well!  But if my kiddos didn't fully understand a topic, there was no help for me to teach it.  We ended up switching both kids to something else.  I can still see pulling out MM from time to time to show a different perspective, but we won't be doing it as a core.  I also found it way too workbooky, even with me adding in manipulatives, it just got boring. 

 

This is what we're running into as well. I'm still on the fence what to use with my ds for 2nd grade. He did SM Essentials and this year he's doing Miquon/MM1. Other than the Miquon, I can't really decide what math to go with through 3rd. Possibly MM since it has less parts to juggle. I could never wrap my mind around all the various SM parts and books and extra stuff. 

 

I will say this, MM is good practice after learning the math with a Miquon unit. That's all I really need, something that complements our Miquon lessons. 

 

I'll move into Saxon5/4 after that. 

[IHaveNoIdeawhatIAmDoing]

After thinking about it some more and looking into the price of Rightstart, I've decided to stick with Math Mammoth, adding in the Rightstart games. I'm sure people who love Rightstart feel that it's worth it, but if the lack of instruction is my only issue with MM, I'm going to make it work. 

 

(I know, I know. This thread was dead. It needed the proper closure though)

[kitten18]

After thinking about it some more and looking into the price of Rightstart, I've decided to stick with Math Mammoth, adding in the Rightstart games. I'm sure people who love Rightstart feel that it's worth it, but if the lack of instruction is my only issue with MM, I'm going to make it work.

 

(I know, I know. This thread was dead. It needed the proper closure though)

I have used MM and now we use SM. I also dabbled in RS (I have A&B). I wish I would have just bought the RS games and Activities for the AL Abacus (I did end up buying them) and not bought A&B.

 

Eta - I don't know how that sunglasses guy got there, it was supposed to be a B. On my phone.

[umsami]

We've done Right Start A&B, some Saxon, Math Mammoth, and Math in Focus.  Right now, we're finishing up MM 4A and MIF4A too.  Honestly, I think the level of instruction is perfectly fine for my 4th grader.  I don't wish for more.  In Math in Focus, while I think the do a good job explaining, because we didn't use their bar models before…it sometimes hurts us. I can't always figure out how they're thinking.  But with the MM stuff, she's very clear and I don't have trouble.

 

Place value is covered every single year (at least until fourth grade), in every single program I've used. If your DC doesn't get it this time…don't fret. It will be covered again….and again….and again. ;)

 

You can make your own cards to play "Go to the Dump" or "Corners" for first grade.  There are videos on youtube on how to play them.

 

Go to the Dump:  

 

Corners: