Science for a 2E 10 y.o. dyslexic/dysgraphic - Ruth & others please help

[FairProspects]

I'm starting to think about science for next year and maybe for the rest of this year and I'm hitting a wall. Ds is transitioning to logic stage but has some considerations due to his dyslexia/dysgraphia.

 

By WTM rotation, we should be on physics next year. I can't find a middle school/logic stage physics that includes concepts or builds ds hasn't already done. He loves physics and reads and builds tons in his spare time. We have liked Ellen McHenry materials, but I don't see any physics units. What else could I do with him for physics?

 

Considerations:

 

1. Ds loves math. He is asking that any science incorporate a considerable amount of math. This is a something we have run into all along because when we learn about volcanoes, for example, he immediately wants to calculate how fast magma outflow is in a given explosion (even though he doesn't always have the formulas or skills to do so). He loved the chemical calculations in The Elements and is asking for more math to be included in any more chemistry we do this year. He would prefer they be intertwined subjects.

 

2. He learns best hands-on or visually/spatially. He sees math/science in 3D and wants to learn from images and experience whenever possible. This is one of the cons I see in The Elements so far; I need to add more actual lab chemistry for him.

 

3. He is young and acts young. He doesn't read high school level texts for fun or anything. He is serious, but loves his whimsy, math jokes, and silliness.  A straight high school physics text is too much for him even if the concepts are not. This consideration is the hardest for me to describe. Ellen McHenry and MCT have been the best fits for him as far as this is concerned.

 

4. His dyslexia/dysgraphia is significant. We have supports and he can read along with textbooks with audio, but other than visual dictionaries cannot read huge textbooks or chapter books on his own. He also has major issues with word retrieval and writing. Outlining by hand is out of the question because of actual fine motor delays and it would take him a long time on the computer. Some of these issues are expected to resolve after adolescence but present a barrier currently. His is a very slow-blooming profile according to the neuropsychologist. Traditional reading a textbook and writing a report are not the best approaches for him yet. I would like to guide him towards more difficult science reading this next year (with supports). He is more motivated to write if it is about science and he will get to lab reports, but from what I understand this disparity pf thinking & writing/reading will be the biggest during the middle years.

 

What can I do with ds that will keeping him moving forward conceptually and loving science, without focusing too much on his difficulties with writing and (less of an issue with supports) reading?

[Julie of KY]

My 12 yo is really enjoying Exploration Educations Physical Science - it's physics projects, in the advanced version, the math is algebra based, but is pretty easy. Lots of hands on projects. Not too much reading - it is computer based, so if he has to be read to, it might be hard.

 

(My severely dyslexic/dyagraphic kid would not have liked this program since is has fill in the blanks and expects you to do the workbook associated with the program. He sees no point in putting pen to paper if he knows the answer without writing.)

[8filltheheart]

Have you looked into Plato at all? They are mostly audio/visual. My ds liked to supplement with them, especially on days when he had reading fatigue. Homeschool buyers coop normally has them cheap and there are samples you can view.

[lewelma]

I am so impressed that you are trying so hard to find something that will actually work! 

 

I have a few questions for you:

 

1) For input, are you focusing on aural and visual?  Or do you want to work on reading within the context of science?

 

2) For output, do you want to have him do any writing or are you focused on oral (discussion, presentations, etc)?

 

3) You have mentioned chemistry and physics.  Are you considering both, or just physics for next year?

 

4) You say he is very hands-on, does he like to follow directions from a kit or is he motivated to answer his own questions? Or even a bit of both?

 

5) What do you mean by 'guide him towards more difficult texts with support'?

 

6) Have you looked at Life of Fred physics for the mathematical but yet whimsical approach?

 

7) How much time do you have to work with him?  How independent is he? Is he willing to have you help or read to him?

 

8) Does he like to (can he) research topics in physics on the internet?  Like nuclear power or CERN etc?

 

9) Does he have good computer skills in research, making presentations, creating video, etc? Do you want him to develop this through science?

 

10) What level is he currently at? What books has he worked through?

 

11) What are you most worried about?  How old is he?  Is he sensitive to his 2E?

 

12) You say you want to work up to textbooks?  What can he read now?  Can he read biographies?  Can he read a single spread on 1 topic?  What exactly is difficult?  (Having been in this boat myself, what was difficult to me was bitsy busy pages, and now blinking internet sites -- drive me nuts!)

 

Oh, goodness, I'm up to 12.  Tough cases are really fascinating and difficult to plan for.....

 

Ruth in NZ

[Soror]

I'm listening along here......

[Emerald Stoker]

A couple of ideas--not sure they'll work, but maybe worth a look?--

 

-Bite-Size Physics; I haven't used it, though the samples look a little light on the math for him, I think, but definitely has that gifted 10 year-old boy vibe, lots of experiments, lots of videos, online classes available. http://www.bitesizephysics.com/index.html

-some of the TOPS modules, maybe? We've used a few of these, and the amount of reading and writing is fairly limited. There's a good amount of math in the physics-related ones; there are cute little cartoon guys wandering around every page, and the science is well done.... http://topscience.org/

-NASA has "space math" lessons available online (I think it was from Arcadia I first learned of these). http://spacemath.gsfc.nasa.gov/books.html and http://spacemath.gsfc.nasa.gov/media.html

-maybe some trade books?  Here are a couple from my bookmarks, but I haven't seen them for real: http://www.amazon.com/dp/0471569615/ref=rdr_ext_sb_ti_sims_1#_ (Mad About Physics: Braintwisters, Paradoxes, and Curiosities, Jargodzki & Potter)

http://www.amazon.com/Thinking-Physics-Understandable-Practical-Reality/dp/0935218084/ref=pd_sim_b_2 (Lewis Carroll Epstein--love the name!, Thinking Physics: Understanding Practical Reality)

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0471762733/ref=rdr_ext_sb_ti_hist_3#_ (Jearl Walker, The Flying Circus of Physics)

 

Hope something there will work...

 

ETA a couple more ideas:  Laura Corin used Teaching Physics with Toys, I think; it might be worth asking her more about that one--it sounded interesting.

I enjoyed James Kakalios's Physics of Superheroes http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=kakalios%20physics ; it's text-heavy, but maybe a good read-aloud?

The NSTA recommends various resources in several formats; this list might be worth a look? http://www.nsta.org/recommends/SearchResults.aspx?title=physics&author=&grade=(5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12)&format=&review=&sciencetrade=no&recentreview=no

Some of the Zome kits are oriented toward chemistry or physics: http://zometool.com/products/categories/section/project-kits

 

ETA again because I am Queen of the Afterthought: how about some of the GEMS guides?  http://lhsgems.org/gemsguidestopic.html#Physics

 

Horrible Science? http://www.horrible-science.co.uk/

[Emerald Stoker]

I'm sorry, I hope I'm not being annoying...but this site occurred to me, too: http://www.physicscentral.org/ There's a bonanza of great things there--physics comic books, tons of experiments, pictures, podcasts, neat stuff.

[FairProspects]

I am so impressed that you are trying so hard to find something that will actually work! 

 

I have a few questions for you:

 

1) For input, are you focusing on aural and visual?  Or do you want to work on reading within the context of science?

 

I think it would work best if there was a significant amount of aural and visual content. I do want to work on reading in the context of science but with supports - he has access to websites with digital text and audio linked where the digital text is highlighted as the audio speaks. He read with these for textbooks but it is a slow process and I don't want to overwhelm or discourage him as his reading continues to improve.

 

2) For output, do you want to have him do any writing or are you focused on oral (discussion, presentations, etc)?

 

He did a Science Fair project last year and did a huge amount of writing for that and I wouldn't be opposed to him completing another one next year. Other than science fair, he could maybe write a paragraph summary here and there, but we will mostly be doing presentations & discussion. He is a whiz at computers and programming so he could do digital presentations.

 

3) You have mentioned chemistry and physics.  Are you considering both, or just physics for next year?

 

Just physics unless they can be integrated somehow. He really enjoys chemistry but my musings on chemistry were mostly for the rest of this year.

 

4) You say he is very hands-on, does he like to follow directions from a kit or is he motivated to answer his own questions? Or even a bit of both?

 

Both but he prefers his own questions and projects. His weekend project was building the interior structure of the Sears Tower complete with a working elevator shaft and construction crane. He usually comes up with his own projects inspired by something he reads or sees and frequently builds and finishes off incomplete blueprints or drawings in books.

 

5) What do you mean by 'guide him towards more difficult texts with support'?

 

I just mean using audio linked to highlighted digital text.

 

6) Have you looked at Life of Fred physics for the mathematical but yet whimsical approach?

 

I have, but we just haven't gotten into it much yet. Maybe I should prioritize this more for him. I do own LOF Physics.

 

7) How much time do you have to work with him?  How independent is he? Is he willing to have you help or read to him?

 

He does reading on his own and some math, but he is not  at all independent. I have plenty of time to help and he doesn't mind at all if I read to him. A lot of his input occurs this way. I only have 2 kids so I have enough time to work with them each independently. We do science 3 times a week, taking 1 day off for piano lessons/math circles and 1 day off for co-op classes (although he takes math, science, & chess at co-op, but there isn't time to do our own science these days).

 

8) Does he like to (can he) research topics in physics on the internet?  Like nuclear power or CERN etc?

 

Yes, he is very good at internet research and motivated to do so. He likes to research his own questions but usually runs into math or vocabulary that he doesn't understand. He was trying to research the chemical composition and classification of stars the other day and we had this problem.

 

9) Does he have good computer skills in research, making presentations, creating video, etc? Do you want him to develop this through science?

 

Yes, all of the above. He has an iPod, has been to 2 years of computer classes. and is fabulous at iMovie, Scratch, etc. I might have to teach him Powerpoint, but I think presentations would be a good form of output for him.

 

10) What level is he currently at? What books has he worked through?

 

We have done a lot of the GEMS unit guides (astronomy & geology for grades 6-8), we did a year of Supercharged Science (Units 1-5), and this year Ellen McHenry. He won second place last year at the regional science fair for his project on hydroelectricity. It is hard for me to answer this because often I end up dropping our science books because he has already intuited all the concepts or read about them. I don't know how he does it, but he already understands a portion of astrophysics and much of chemistry. When we went to engineering day at the local university he was holding conversations with the students in the nuclear fusion labs and explaining how the aerodynamics water test worked. He has built models of the Mars Rover, knows why it does what it does, and he knows more about planets, alignments, forces, etc. than I do. I'd say other than biology, he probably knows the info contained in most middle school science programs possibly more but without the math experience.

 

11) What are you most worried about?  How old is he?  Is he sensitive to his 2E?

 

I'm most worried about finding concepts that he doesn't know or that interest him to learn in a format he or I can access. He has a serious input/output issue because of the 2E. He loves talking to scientists and documentaries, but reading textbooks is much harder for him. He is 9 now, will be 10 before next school year. He is sensitive to the 2E but I think because it was caught so young he is also a lot more accepting of it as the way his brain works.

 

12) You say you want to work up to textbooks?  What can he read now?  Can he read biographies?  Can he read a single spread on 1 topic?  What exactly is difficult?  (Having been in this boat myself, what was difficult to me was bitsy busy pages, and now blinking internet sites -- drive me nuts!)

 

Yes, the visual crowding is a big issue for him. This is lessened somewhat by his Kindle where he can expand the text, but reading is just slow for him and takes forever. He could read biographies with audio support but again slowly. His favorite reading right now is visual dictionaries of science and atlases because of the diagrams and pictures. Chapter books overwhelm him with text but he often picks up various dictionaries and DK books. He loves listening to fiction but doesn't read a lot of it for fun.

 

Oh, goodness, I'm up to 12.  Tough cases are really fascinating and difficult to plan for.....

 

Ruth in NZ

 

Thanks for your thoughts. :)

[FairProspects]

Have you looked into Plato at all? They are mostly audio/visual. My ds liked to supplement with them, especially on days when he had reading fatigue. Homeschool buyers coop normally has them cheap and there are samples you can view.

 

I've thought about Plato too, but I wasn't sure it would be enough. Can I ask what books your ds was reading along with Plato?

[8filltheheart]

My ds was older than your ds and completed all 3 levels in a single yr.(he did these in 7th grade) He also read all of Bortz's books (which we own, so I remember those) plus The Cartoon Guide to Physics(which we also own) plus library books. Looking through them now, Bortz's books are definitely accessible to a younger dyslexic. ((Eta thinking about it, I think he read these when he was younger?? Now I am not sure I am remembering correctly what he did when. I'll try to remember to ask him)http://www.fredbortz.com/Subatomic.htm

The Cartoon Guide.....I'm not so sure. My ds had already completed both MUS and Foerster's alg 1 as well as Chalkdust Geo by this pt, so he understood all the math. I'm not sure it would be a good idea for someone studying fractions.

 

Ds didn't read them ,but my younger kids all love the Scientist in the Field books. There some on space that might appeal.

http://www.amazon.com/Mysterious-Universe-Supernovae-Energy-Scientists/dp/0547519923/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1384794275&sr=1-3&keywords=Scientist+in+the+field+universe

There is also one on the Mars Rover and another on life in the universe, etc.

 

What level would you say he is functioning on? Reading level and math level?

[FairProspects]

My ds was older than your ds and completed all 3 levels in a single yr.(he did these in 7th grade) He also read all of Bortz's books (which we own, so I remember those) plus The Cartoon Guide to Physics(which we also own) plus library books. Looking through them now, Bortz's books are definitely accessible to a younger dyslexic. http://www.fredbortz.com/Subatomic.htm

The Cartoon Guide.....I'm not so sure. My ds had already completed both MUS and Foerster's alg 1 as well as Chalkdust Geo by this pt, so he understood all the math. I'm not sure it would be a good idea for someone studying fractions.

 

Ds didn't read them ,but my younger kids all love the Scientist in the Field books. There some on space that might appeal.

http://www.amazon.com/Mysterious-Universe-Supernovae-Energy-Scientists/dp/0547519923/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1384794275&sr=1-3&keywords=Scientist+in+the+field+universe

There is also one on the Mars Rover and another on life in the universe, etc.

 

What level would you say he is functioning on? Reading level and math level?

 

His level is all over the place. He can read The Economist (12th grade level) when motivated to read about North Korea. Fluency-wise and more regularly probably a 4th-6th grade reading level. Same with math - it varies based on the topic. He has completed HOE and is working through Zacarro Challenge Math with dh, and he can do most beginning algebra, but he struggles procedurally with long division and fractions (not concepts but in remembering steps and conversion calculations - he ends up deriving from concepts each time). He has intuited decimals based on place value. I'd say solid 5th grade level math overall, higher in some areas, and with incredible problem solving skills and persistence that allow him to do much harder problems when motivated or if the math is integrated with science. He excels at geometry and is way above 5th grade level there. He is so much like some of the other kids I've seen on the Special Needs board that are working in 5 different math levels at the same time. It is a crazy puzzle and I'm always juggling math adjustments. I may have him placed artificially low in math because he doesn't know terminology and doesn't have fluency with  procedures. At 7, the neuropsychs couldn't find concepts he didn't understand but the dyslexia math fact/recall/procedural glitch causes some issues here too.

 

[8filltheheart]

His level is all over the place. He can read The Economist (12th grade level) when motivated to read about North Korea. Fluency-wise and more regularly probably a 4th-6th grade reading level. Same with math - it varies based on the topic. He has completed HOE and is working through Zacarro Challenge Math with dh, and he can do most beginning algebra, but he struggles procedurally with long division and fractions (not concepts but in remembering steps and conversion calculations - he ends up deriving from concepts each time). He has intuited decimals based on place value. I'd say solid 5th grade level math overall, higher in some areas, and with incredible problem solving skills and persistence that allow him to do much harder problems when motivated or if the math is integrated with science. He excels at geometry and is way above 5th grade level there. He is so much like some of the other kids I've seen on the Special Needs board that are working in 5 different math levels at the same time. It is a crazy puzzle and I'm always juggling math adjustments. I may have him placed artificially low in math because he doesn't know terminology and doesn't have fluency with procedures. At 7, the neuropsychs couldn't find concepts he didn't understand but the dyslexia math fact/recall/procedural glitch causes some issues here too.

 

Wow, his reading level,is high for a 9yo dyslexic. Ds, at 9, was really struggling with reading.....no way he could have read anything on a 12th grade level (3rd grade level was hard). I'll have to think about resources moe, but I am getting ready to leave for a college visit, so I might forget. Remind me if I do. (Btw, I edited my earlier post while you were posting, so I don't know if you saw it. )

[FairProspects]

The Bortz books definitely look good. We checked out Cartoon Guide to Physics last year and it was too much, but maybe next year with a couple of years of maturity and study in between it might work. Thanks for the suggestions!

[lewelma]

Does he want to learn physics systematically? or does he like to just follow his interests? 

 

Do you want a spine to use as a jumping off point for researching his passions? or are you happy to just let him meander? Do you need to use a science curriculum (for your own sanity, for direction, for motivation, etc)? Or can you just count hours worked on topic?

 

Does he like to study the complex stuff and then fill in the simpler details? or does he prefer to build up from simple to complex?

 

When is he willing to work hard at his reading?  If he can read the economist because he is interested, he has quite a bit of skill.  When does he really use it?  How long can he do it for?  What motivates him to read the tough  material?

 

Can he graph?  Do you think he could graph concepts he learns about in physics?

 

What kind of programming can he do?  Do you think he could simulate some concepts in physics?

 

When he does internet research on his own ideas and runs into high level, complex material, can you read/interpret it for him?  Or are we talking really high level?

 

How long would he be interested in a single topic like the architecture of the Sear's tower?  a day, a week, a month?

 

How did he learn about the Mars Rover and the other topics he talked to the physics students about?

 

Do you know any scientists?  physicists?  anyone interested in teaching him some of the math behind his interests?

 

How much math do you know?  Could you use a physics textbook to look up the math that is applicable to his current interest and teach it to him?

 

 

 

 

Boy, I could ask questions all day.  Why don't you just hop a plane and meet me here.  I have a very comfy sofa-bed and plenty of free time for science!

 

[Pen]

I tried to have ds follow WTM science rotation at first, but found that it did not work for us to do that, and instead I let science be a student interest initiated area, even if that makes it wander all over the place.  It fits ds to do that, and I think he is learning more doing it that way than if I decided what should be done when.  Your ds sounds like he might be that way too.

 

Last year ds wanted everything (pretty much) to be kits.   He did some with Thames and Kosmos (right name?) esp. physics set which I felt more safe to let him loose with and not fearful of explosions (cf. chemistry kits that is).  Some of the components were not as sturdy as one would like, and some of the instructions were goofy.  But it seemed basically workable.

 

We had one TOPS, but the writing on page saying what to do was very cramped and busy which is a problem, so we did not get any more of those.  Maybe they are not always that way.  Or maybe cramped and busy is not the sort of thing that causes your ds trouble, while for my ds the page layout and busy-ness is far more of a problem than other aspects of written material.  

 

He built some models of ancient projectile weaponry (ballista ?) which demonstrated various ideas of physics, and a model cam shaft and a few other things along those lines from plans online or in a book.

 

 He sometimes likes Discover magazine, and got especially interested in cloaking (visual, auditory, earthquake etc.), based on a short article in a Discover awhile back.

 

This year he roams the library and picks out whatever interests him, and follows that until it does not anymore. Currently his interests are more in the area of life science, Oceanography, DNA and so on.   But this year he can read adult books--or at least appears to be doing that-- and so finally his reading ability and interests are more in line. Books written to interest non expert adults in various areas of science though seem to be more helpful right now than either kids books or textbooks.  For him where the page lay out is more an issue than number of words they still seem to be more accessible than things like Larry Gonick cartoon science books.  Also he prefers to have "real" illustrations, so, for example, got out a library book on DNA by James Watson--personally I have qualms about Watson, but ds also already saw the film DNA: Secret of Photo 51, and thus a bit about the various "teams" trying to get credit--which has excellent pictures on almost every page it seems, but reads as a book, not as a kid's encyclopedia.

 

Although we are not following WTM rotation, the science does sometimes get integrated with what is happening in other areas, for example, the interest in ancient weapons flowed in part from the Percy Jackson books and in part from history.   Lately there was an interest in understanding typhus based on learning about Holocaust issues/Anne Frank, so he spent one science session learning about typhus.  Or things in life lead to learning such as our dog having worms or finding a fox in the back yard.

 

Do you have Learning Ally?   That has helped some too.

[FairProspects]

Does he want to learn physics systematically? or does he like to just follow his interests? 

 

I asked him and he said he would like to study physics systemically, especially the history of various physicists and their discoveries. He wants to know more about Einstein and his theories and he mentioned some other physicists too.

 

Do you want a spine to use as a jumping off point for researching his passions? or are you happy to just let him meander? Do you need to use a science curriculum (for your own sanity, for direction, for motivation, etc)? Or can you just count hours worked on topic?

 

I like using curriculum, but I don't mind designing my own from books & experiments too. I can be flexible and count hours worked on a topic. That might actually fit us better at this point.

 

Does he like to study the complex stuff and then fill in the simpler details? or does he prefer to build up from simple to complex?

 

He LOVES the complex stuff. Definitely a top down thinker and fabulous at teaching himself the math or details he needs.

 

When is he willing to work hard at his reading?  If he can read the economist because he is interested, he has quite a bit of skill.  When does he really use it?  How long can he do it for?  What motivates him to read the tough  material?

 

He can read at a high level but finds it hard to sustain for more than a few pages at a time. His dyslexia presents itself now in terms of that lack of stamina and fluency at the higher level reading. Geo-political conflicts motivate him to read at that level, as does some history, such as military history, and non-fiction like science dictionaries or atlases. He could maybe do a chapter a day at a really tough level, he could definitely do it with audio support from some of the dyslexic support websites like Learning Ally.

 

Can he graph?  Do you think he could graph concepts he learns about in physics?

 

Yes, he can graph, even in 3D. I think he could definitely graph physics concepts.

 

What kind of programming can he do?  Do you think he could simulate some concepts in physics?

 

Right now he only does NXT and Scratch so I don't really know. He is good at Scratch but I don't know if that is powerful enough to demonstrate physics concepts. He says he would be interested in learning real computer languages (but I definitely don't know how to teach that!).

 

When he does internet research on his own ideas and runs into high level, complex material, can you read/interpret it for him?  Or are we talking really high level?

 

We are talking really high level. Many times I can read/interpret it for him but sometimes it is way over my head.

 

How long would he be interested in a single topic like the architecture of the Sear's tower?  a day, a week, a month?

 

Probably about a month. He tends to go on binges where he learns everything he can about a certain topic and when he feels he has learned everything he desires to know, he moves onto a new interest.

 

How did he learn about the Mars Rover and the other topics he talked to the physics students about?

 

We visit flight museums and planetariums often and he spends time talking with the docents, pilots, and professors. He watched every video snippet and documentary he could find about the Mars Rover and I helped him research models and books so he could learn more. At one point he met a kid on a message board for children whose dad worked on the Curiosity and they all corresponded for awhile.

 

Do you know any scientists?  physicists?  anyone interested in teaching him some of the math behind his interests?

 

My dad is a Metallurgist/Chemical Engineer for a major corporation and I frequently call him with questions but he is more on the chemistry side and doesn't remember as much of physics. I have a good friend from high school who is an amazing physicist but he lives 2 states away. He did mentor ds's science fair project last year and is happy to help but our conversations are mostly by email or text. I wish I knew someone closer but we aren't exactly close to major research universities right now either.

 

How much math do you know?  Could you use a physics textbook to look up the math that is applicable to his current interest and teach it to him?

 

I took Calculus for non-math/science majors in college but that was a long time ago. It would be hard for me to do much math above basic algebra/geometry without some major refresher work. I have an MA in Ed, but my certification is in English/History. I've learned and re-learned so much math and science already (more than I think I learned in high school chemistry) but ds is very quickly outpacing me.

 

 

Boy, I could ask questions all day.  Why don't you just hop a plane and meet me here.  I have a very comfy sofa-bed and plenty of free time for science!

 

I wish I could just come there and talk science! We are actually saving to try and set up a home swap for a month or two on that side of the world in a year or so. :) Thanks for your help!

 

[lewelma]

Sorry it has taken me so long to respond.  My younger's b-day party is tomorrow so I have been busy!

Does he want to learn physics systematically? or does he like to just follow his interests? 

 

I asked him and he said he would like to study physics systemically, especially the history of various physicists and their discoveries. He wants to know more about Einstein and his theories and he mentioned some other physicists too.

Wow! what a great way to organize his studies. I never would have though of this approach! Now, you have the big picture. He needs to go through this page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physicist and pick 2 people per month, so 18 people or whatever. I'm guessing that he will spend between 1 and 4 weeks on each person, so this is just an approximation. But once he has chosen who he wants to study we need to find some books. I am guessing that he is looking a wikipedia pages that are often summaries written at a very high level, and he needs to step it down a notch (or two).

 

I like using curriculum, but I don't mind designing my own from books & experiments too. I can be flexible and count hours worked on a topic. That might actually fit us better at this point.

How much experimentation does he like to do? As in the ratio of reading to experimentation? Would he be interested in a longer term project (as in 6-10 weeks) on a single topic. My 10 year old did a 8 week long project on the physics of flight. He made his own kite and then studied its flight depending on how he adjusted the variables (angle of ascent, etc). Very very cool!

 

Does he like to study the complex stuff and then fill in the simpler details? or does he prefer to build up from simple to complex?

 

He LOVES the complex stuff. Definitely a top down thinker and fabulous at teaching himself the math or details he needs.

What support does he need to teach himself the math? just appropriate-level resources? or a reader? or someone to just bounce ideas off of? What can he handle and what can he not handle?

 

When is he willing to work hard at his reading?  If he can read the economist because he is interested, he has quite a bit of skill.  When does he really use it?  How long can he do it for?  What motivates him to read the tough  material?

 

He can read at a high level but finds it hard to sustain for more than a few pages at a time. His dyslexia presents itself now in terms of that lack of stamina and fluency at the higher level reading.

Well I will have to say that as far as I am concerned he has overcome his dyslexia or at least made it a reasonably minor impediment to his learning. I can't read more than a few pages at a time. Can he just spend 20 minutes 3 times per day? Is there any reason he needs to sit with a book for an hour?

 

Do you want/need output?

 

Does he like advanced lectures? Can he handle coursera classes? Have you seen TTC's Physics in everyday life?

[Alte Veste Academy]

Have you looked at Hakim's Story of Science series? My DS10 has loved it, and it has spurred many bunny trails.

[quark]

I was going to suggest some of the resources Emerald Stoker suggested along side Teaching Company lectures. Impossible: Physics Beyond the Edge and Particle Physics for Non Physicists might be right up his alley. I haven't seen the one Ruth mentioned yet although I know someone IRL who has liked it.

 

Reading through the whole thread, I also wonder if you've given a thought to either Physics or Physical Science from Derek Owens. If your DS has not started algebra, you could look through some of the Physical Science lectures on Derek's Lucid Education site. My DS started Physics when he was 9+ and is taking 2 years to finish it. You could similarly spread out the cost as a 2-year budget. The platform is quite ideal for younger kids not ready for textbooks yet imho. You watch video lectures with Derek's voice over and a blackboard (like Khan Academy) but Derek is funnier and does a lot of drawing and sketching when he speaks. There's a workbook type notebook to take notes with. There's text to read along in the notebook as well and spaces after every few lines to jot down notes. There are practice worksheet pages but perhaps your DS could do those orally or on a whiteboard? I suggest talking to Derek if you decide to go this route. He is very flexible and might be able to suggest something I am not able to think of.

 

More info on physical science from DO: http://www.derekowens.com/course_info_physical_science.php

 

Although I seem to be suggesting Physical Science, it actually sounds to me that your DS might be very ready for DO's Physics with the exception that he might not yet have algebra. Even if his conceptual ability is higher, he will need that math at some point and the detail work itself to give him the tools to go further in physics.

 

Perhaps you could think about starting algebra next year too. He could do it side by side with Physics?

 

I was also going to suggest Physics Fun and Beyond because it strikes me as a good resource for a vsl learner.

 

ETA: he might be beyond this but thought I should mention it anyway!

https://www.udacity.com/course/ph100

 

ETA2: OK, I re-read some posts and see that he is doing beginning algebra but struggles with certain procedures. I also see that he can teach himself concepts when necessary right? That part about how he just teaches himself things...that sounds very familiar and that's what convinced me that we should begin algebra-based physics.

[Terabith]

I'm guessing he is way beyond this, but have you looked at the Thames and Kosmos Classic Science Milestones?

[FairProspects]

Sorry it has taken me so long to respond.  My younger's b-day party is tomorrow so I have been busy!

 

Wow! what a great way to organize his studies. I never would have though of this approach! Now, you have the big picture. He needs to go through this page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physicist and pick 2 people per month, so 18 people or whatever. I'm guessing that he will spend between 1 and 4 weeks on each person, so this is just an approximation. But once he has chosen who he wants to study we need to find some books. I am guessing that he is looking a wikipedia pages that are often summaries written at a very high level, and he needs to step it down a notch (or two).

 

That is a great idea! I think he would love studying physics this way. Now I just need to line up some books and experiments that go along with each physicist and their theories.

 

How much experimentation does he like to do? As in the ratio of reading to experimentation? Would he be interested in a longer term project (as in 6-10 weeks) on a single topic. My 10 year old did a 8 week long project on the physics of flight. He made his own kite and then studied its flight depending on how he adjusted the variables (angle of ascent, etc). Very very cool!

 

He would love a project like this. In fact, his science fair project idea for this year is similar. He wants to test the aerodynamics of different models of historical aircraft and different types of wings. He is going to want to do experiments at least once a week.

What support does he need to teach himself the math? just appropriate-level resources? or a reader? or someone to just bounce ideas off of? What can he handle and what can he not handle?

 

Pretty much someone to bounce ideas off of and appropriate level resources. He likes to think through problems on his own for long periods of time too.

 

Well I will have to say that as far as I am concerned he has overcome his dyslexia or at least made it a reasonably minor impediment to his learning. I can't read more than a few pages at a time. Can he just spend 20 minutes 3 times per day? Is there any reason he needs to sit with a book for an hour?

 

I guess not. I hadn't thought about it that way! Yes, he could definitely spend 20 minutes, 3 times a day spread out.

 

Do you want/need output?

 

I would like the output of at least one project/science fair/lab report, notebook or something but I don't need output for every experiment or reading.

Does he like advanced lectures? Can he handle coursera classes? Have you seen TTC's Physics in everyday life?

 

I haven't looked into anything like this for him yet, but thinking about it, he might like them. He likes watching Andrew Pudewa lecture and as long as the lectures are 45 min or shorter I think he would track well with a lecture.

 

Thank you so much to all of you! You have given me a lot to think about. :)

 

[FairProspects]

I was going to suggest some of the resources Emerald Stoker suggested along side Teaching Company lectures. Impossible: Physics Beyond the Edge and Particle Physics for Non Physicists might be right up his alley. I haven't seen the one Ruth mentioned yet although I know someone IRL who has liked it.

 

Reading through the whole thread, I also wonder if you've given a thought to either Physics or Physical Science from Derek Owens. If your DS has not started algebra, you could look through some of the Physical Science lectures on Derek's Lucid Education site. My DS started Physics when he was 9+ and is taking 2 years to finish it. You could similarly spread out the cost as a 2-year budget. The platform is quite ideal for younger kids not ready for textbooks yet imho. You watch video lectures with Derek's voice over and a blackboard (like Khan Academy) but Derek is funnier and does a lot of drawing and sketching when he speaks. There's a workbook type notebook to take notes with. There's text to read along in the notebook as well and spaces after every few lines to jot down notes. There are practice worksheet pages but perhaps your DS could do those orally or on a whiteboard? I suggest talking to Derek if you decide to go this route. He is very flexible and might be able to suggest something I am not able to think of.

 

More info on physical science from DO: http://www.derekowens.com/course_info_physical_science.php

 

Although I seem to be suggesting Physical Science, it actually sounds to me that your DS might be very ready for DO's Physics with the exception that he might not yet have algebra. Even if his conceptual ability is higher, he will need that math at some point and the detail work itself to give him the tools to go further in physics.

 

Perhaps you could think about starting algebra next year too. He could do it side by side with Physics?

 

I was also going to suggest Physics Fun and Beyond because it strikes me as a good resource for a vsl learner.

 

ETA: he might be beyond this but thought I should mention it anyway!

https://www.udacity.com/course/ph100

 

ETA2: OK, I re-read some posts and see that he is doing beginning algebra but struggles with certain procedures. I also see that he can teach himself concepts when necessary right? That part about how he just teaches himself things...that sounds very familiar and that's what convinced me that we should begin algebra-based physics.

 

I've thought about Derek Owens, but I think I might like to see how he would do with a lecture series first to make sure he has enough maturity to handle it. Sometimes he exceeds my expectations and sometimes he is a complete goof and struggles to pay attention. I do think he will at least be at pre-algebra by next year, if not algebra, but he might be ready to do it alongside physics. Thank you for the suggestions - they have given me lots of ideas to consider!