Not sure whether OM is working

[Halcyon]

As some of you remember, I decided to give OM a try with my boys. I am not sure it's working. We r in our 5th (6th?) week. To be honest, it might be a little too loosey gooseyfor me. Now I am not one to like a very strict schedule, but I am just not sure this is a fit, particulalry for my 4th grader. I lie the OM 6 science, on the fence about history, grammar doesn't really exist (which is ok as he needed a break and has latin). Writing is good but I feel I could probably do something similar on my own...I HAVE learned things for my older: that I can do writing without a strict guide like WWS. That lots of history reading is a good thing for us, along with lots of discussion. That my son needs some daily,or nearly daily, spelling and vocab work. But I don't know if OM is the way to go.

 

For younger, the guide is so freeform in the 4th grade....I just don't know that I am the right person for it. . I end up skipping things i don't want to do because there is no box to check, no "thing" that needs to be produced persay. Am I making sense?

 

Should I give it a few more weeks, or should I take what I've learned and move on? I hate jumping around......Fwiw, we are doing vocab, spelling, math, latin and Spanish separate from OM for 6th. We would likely stick with OM 6 science. As for 4th? i just don't know. I like the journaling. I don't like the science. The grammar is below his level, but I don't mind the review.

 

Ideas appreciated. I know I said I would give it a try and post feedback, so here it is. ;)

[Halcyon]

Oh, and another thing I have learned: we don't have to do SO much. ThEy are still learning, and having more downtime is a very, very good thing for everyone in our family.

[thowell]

Just a side question...Is the science evolution heavy? It sounds like what you were looking for but maybe just hard to get used to.

[Halcyon]

Nope, it isn't, at least not as far as i've seen. We do a fair amount of science reading outside of OM(story of science, Dawkins) and other kids books on evolution, so we cover that separately.

[Halcyon]

Just a side question...Is the science evolution heavy? It sounds like what you were looking for but maybe just hard to get used to.

Definitely hard to get used to! Still mulling it over. To be honest, I miss Human Odyssey!

[Just Another Jen]

I have tried and ditched on twice in the elementary years. I am still using om English 9 for my daughter but have added so much it's almost unrecognizable. I want to like it. But, in the end it just feels too light for us.

[Halcyon]

Thanks rivendellmom. I like many aspects of it. But yes, basically we are doing such a hodge podge mix, I am not sure what we are doing can even be called OM. We r doing the writing, the history, and the science for 6th. And writing, social studies (sorta) and art for 4th. The questionis whether it is worth keeping or if I should see and make back some of my money.

[Halcyon]

I am just thinking aloud here, but I am thinking of keeping om6 science for older, doing living books, nature walks and young scientist kits for younger. for history, switching back to SOTW for younger and Human Odyssey for older.

 

I may or not hold onto the books for reference. I know we could recoup a lot of the money that we spent, which is an attractive thought.

[BatmansWife]

This kind of reminds me of when I tried Moving Beyond the Page one year.  There is a lot that I do like about it....but there was so much that I ended up tweaking or completely skipping.  Either I just didn't want to do what they said to do (I guess I'm a real rebel)...or I thought something was just busywork/stupid...or who knows what all else I thought.  But for the cost of the whole thing it was a shame to not use it as it was written.  I decided I am very much a person who prefers to piece everything together myself and not be caught inside a box.  This year I did get one MBtP item...one of their lit units.  To be honest, I was kinda surprised when you told us you were going with OM.  I understand why...you needed a change and maybe wanted to lighten up a bit (or at least that was my take on it)...but you seem like a pick-and-choose-what-you-want-and-put-it-together type of person too (or I could be wrong :lol:  ).  It's kinda funny to me how many people hear that we school at home and ask, "What do you use?"  And they mean...what boxed curriculum are you using....Abeka, Sonlight, Calvert, etc, etc?  When I say I put it together myself and pick and choose what I want, I sometimes get a look from them like....really?  Then I think that their reaction really means that they are surprised that I can do such a thing...that I actually can think outside the box.  At least that's what I'm telling myself they think...so that I don't feel bad.  :lol:

 

[Halcyon]

:D, yes Aprilmay, I agree. I needed to try it, and it did teach me some very important lessons, for which I am grateful. Recapturing the simple joy in learning, not pushing too hard for "production" of tangible work, making space for laughing, breathing, chatting, playing....rabbit trails, read alouds, projects...these are things I lost sight of last year, and OM has helped me refind them. THat's a good thing. A very good thing.

 

I am learning to breathe again. To not cram our day with too many expectations. To not think about where we "should" be, but where we are.

 

And that it is totally OKAY to ditch school and drive to DiseyWorld for the day. Which we did. Twice. :D

[mommymilkies]

There was just a thread where several of us were deciding whether or not to ditch OM 7. :lol:  I do kinda like the subjects covered and some projects for the OM 7 history, but it's too light, writing intensive, and the formatting is just awful for the huge amount I paid for this.

[8filltheheart]

I have tried and ditched on twice in the elementary years. I am still using om English 9 for my daughter but have added so much it's almost unrecognizable. I want to like it. But, in the end it just feels too light for us.

I used OM English with my sr when he was in 9th grade. I have 2 different courses on his transcript for 9th grade English. OM's I gave a 1/2credit for. Even with supplementing, he finished it in one semester and he is my slow reading dyslexic!!

 

But, it gave us the freedom for the 2nd semester and that is when we put together a study on Inception. It was fabulous, so I am glad it worked out the way it did.

[Hunter]

Some curriculum that does not include worksheets teaches fundamental teacher training in the earlier grades, that is expected to be continued in later grades. Could OM be like that? I wouldn't want to jump into Waldorf Essentials 4 without reading through K-3. AO 4 without doing AO 1-3 and reading about AO 0--no way. Is there a chance you are missing anything by jumping in at grades 4 and 6?

 

I didn't like Writer's Inc at ALL until I saw Writer's Express and Write 2000. Climbing to Good English--I needed the whole thing, as there is VERY little review of previous grades. Ray's Arithmetic--in this case, I needed to see the upper books to teach the lower books.

 

I am not able to teach well, unless I have the entire series/curriculum. I don't like curriculum that tries to crowd everything in one book, instead of only including what can be realistically taught in one year. But I need to be grounded in the big picture, so need the levels below and above, even if I am not using them.

 

I think it's hardest to jump in with gifted kids. I think even more so, they often need some bits from the lower levels.

[BatmansWife]

:D, yes Aprilmay, I agree. I needed to try it, and it did teach me some very important lessons, for which I am grateful. Recapturing the simple joy in learning, not pushing too hard for "production" of tangible work, making space for laughing, breathing, chatting, playing....rabbit trails, read alouds, projects...these are things I lost sight of last year, and OM has helped me refind them. THat's a good thing. A very good thing.

 

I am learning to breathe again. To not cram our day with too many expectations. To not think about where we "should" be, but where we are.

 

And that it is totally OKAY to ditch school and drive to DiseyWorld for the day. Which we did. Twice. :D

 

You have learned very valuable things in only 6 weeks.  :thumbup:

[neeko]

OM4 Science drove me crazy.  We skipped SO much of it.  There was a trimester, I think, where you're supposed to read old fashioned vet animal stories for science and I just. couldn't. do it.  I'm really liking OM5 Science, though (we inoculated petri dishes with bacteria samples this morning).  I find that I'm supplementing lots and lots of things in OM5, but I still really like having the framework (we add in LofE, IEW, math, and History of US, plus plenty of extra books).  I like the wacky project suggestions - ie build a wooden boat with hand tools when reading about Columbus.  My kids *love* the projects, and I wouldn't think to do many of them otherwise, I'm afraid.  I like the history questions and prompts, and the extra book suggestions.    I do go through at the beginning of the week and fill out my own checklist, because otherwise it is too easy to skip/overlook things.   I guess I view it as the History+ part of our curriculum, and that + makes it worth it to me.  

[Halcyon]

Thanks all! I pulled out SOTW 2 last night from my shelf and started reading it, and I thought "Oh my, my 4th grader just cannot NOT read this!" Older really loved SOTW and I think we nee to bring it back. I guess I am a history girl at heart, and social studies just doesn't cut it for us.

 

That said, I will hold onto the OM stuff for now and spend a bit more time reading through it before making a decision. And yes, neeko, om4 science is driving me a little nuts, too.

[jnaj]

We started with OM and drifted away because I thought it wasn't working. This is our first year of homeschooling, so still trying to find our "groove." ;) I tried to sell my OM5, but no takers, so I'm thinking I am going to try using it as more of a reference this year..I'm going to make it work, even though I have tweaked things so much it isn't really considered OM anymore. I'm really not sure if I should trust it more and go with it, or maybe with some tweaking it will be what we need this year? I think we should revisit this again in a couple months and see how it is going. Honestly, we only did a few weeks of it, but I think we will pick it back up and see how it goes with my adjustments. I paid enough for it that I would really like to get some use out of it. I think we can make it work, but for the price and all the adjustments, we will not be using it again next year (unless for some reason later in the year I change my mind because maybe we will find our groove with it and it will work wonders ;) )

 

 

[Nicholas_mom]

I am learning to breathe again. To not cram our day with too many expectations. To not think about where we "should" be, but where we are.

 

 

 

Halycon, I need this!  Could you box it this up and send it to me? :lol:

[ByGrace3]

I haven't participated in any of the OM threads, but I have read and watched with interest. I wondered back when the wave hit and everyone decided to jump in if we would have lots of these threads in the fall. No big deal, we all do it, but I think your posts are very telling, and extremely insightful. You were looking for joy in homeschooling. Relaxed, relationship focused, time to enjoy and get outside of your own weaknesses all the while meeting the needs of your kids. What an amazing attempt. You should be thrilled that you allowed yourself the journey and learned so much. Hugs!

 

I have been in the same boat. Really desiring relationship and joy. I think for some of us type A, perfectionist, all about rigor moms, a few years into homeschooling and we panic-- are we meeting our kids needs???

 

I think asking these questions and for you even trying OM shows that you are very in tune to your kids and families needs.

 

I have been so tempted by OM and such curricula but I know in the end it is too far from "me" for me to be comfortable with. However, I have taken such ideas like you and said, I can do this -- joy, relaxed atmosphere, some interest lead, projects, activities that engage our learners...

 

I think it is very healthy to pursue curricula and programs that play to our weaknesses. But that doesn't mean we abandon our strengths. We allow the OM type qualities you loved to balance you, not discount what you bring to the table.

 

I believe your homeschooling experience will be much richer for taking this journey.

 

I think what we are looking for is probably less about the "curriculum" Amd more about our attitude and how we treat the curriculum. So maybe go with your desires, and take a joy of learning approach to it.

 

I think these threads and moms like you are very inspiring for all of us. Thanks! :)

[Runningmom80]

Oh, I'm having inklings of what you are talking about! I feel like we are skimming and not getting "into" things, because well, I'm having a hard time figuring out how to do that. I like the stories we are reading, but I also dislike the science. My true feeling is that DS would do really well with unit studies, I just keep trying other things because that idea seems so daunting. Anyways, I promised myself I would try the first 12 weeks before jumping ship, so I have a couple of months to find my groove. I'm going to attempt to use the syllabus as a jumping off point for unit studies.

 

 

I think it's just too light by itself for a gifted kid. Yes there is a lot to build off of, but for someone like me who is not type A, the thought of doing the actual work that involves is daunting. I'm starting to really question my commitment to HS in general, but that's a post for another day. Lol

[Runningmom80]

Ok, just had to share this, I find it humorous. Influenced by this thread, I just asked ds how he likes school so far this year. (We are on week 4.) he said he kind of likes it. I asked him what he likes, and he said "pippi long stocking" we read it last week. I then asked what he didn't like and he said "the school stories we read, they are too long." (Boring?) then he says, "I miss science & geography." Geography, yeah I get that, but we DO science. Lol. I told him, "hey, we do science," and he responded, "not real science." Definitely stuff for me to ponder!

[Upward Journey]

Well this week is apparently going better than last week for us. We're in week 4.

 

I again gave my 8th grader the option of switching over to SL Core H, which I already own/used with older children. She declined. I "think" she's finally getting the hang of OM7. I did not need to make a separate schedule for her this week. She's happily done the writing activities and is engaged with the science. We still do extra stuff, R&S English (orally w/o the writing assignments), Wordly Wise, Daily Grams & she's reading a church history text. We're also using MBtP Earth Science, but spreading it out over the entire year.

 

My boys, OM 3 & OM 6, are both in Ancients right now. I brought a pile of books home from the library last night and they're in heaven right now going through them o_O This is a new experience here. Maybe because until this year we were reading so many each day? Idk. But at the end of last week I was seriously thinking about just using OM as a framework because it was feeling so light. However, if it has them digging and reading about the topics, on their own! Then I'm going to just keep plugging along. It seems that it may be accomplishing one of the goals that brought about our switch, which was to bring back the love for learning.

[Upward Journey]

Ok, just had to share this, I find it humorous. Influenced by this thread, I just asked ds how he likes school so far this year. (We are on week 4.) he said he kind of likes it. I asked him what he likes, and he said "pippi long stocking" we read it last week. I then asked what he didn't like and he said "the school stories we read, they are too long." (Boring?) then he says, "I miss science & geography." Geography, yeah I get that, but we DO science. Lol. I told him, "hey, we do science," and he responded, "not real science." Definitely stuff for me to ponder!

I agree with your son about the geography and science in OM3. As far as science goes, I've kind of used OM 6: Life Science as a jumping off point, since that's what older son is using. We're (younger son & I) reading books about different biomes and food webs right now. Today he's going to be drawing a food web into his main lesson book :)

[Runningmom80]

I agree with your son about the geography and science in OM3. As far as science goes, I've kind of used OM 6: Life Science a jumping off point, since that's what older son is using. We're (younger son & I) reading books about different biomes and food webs right now. Today he's going to be drawing a food web into his main lesson book :)

That sounds cool! See, I'm not good at adding on on my own. Well, let me be honest, I don't have the time, or desire to add on on my own. :) I was drawn to OM because I wanted more hand holding. I like the folk tails and social studies, which seems to be the bulk of the program so far, I just wasn't really interested I adding a bunch of stuff to it. I haven't read ahead much, I'm going to see if the science gets any better.

[Upward Journey]

That sounds cool! See, I'm not good at adding on on my own. Well, let me be honest, I don't have the time, or desire to add on on my own. :) I was drawn to OM because I wanted more hand holding. I like the folk tails and social studies, which seems to be the bulk of the program so far, I just wasn't really interested I adding a bunch of stuff to it. I haven't read ahead much, I'm going to see if the science gets any better.

I think OM3 is not very good with the hand holding. Everything is so spread out, over so many books, that it feels disjointed. I think I would need to teach this level for a couple of years to feel really comfortable with it. I think if I'd had the manuals in my hands for a year, instead on a couple months, I'd be doing a better job with it. I'm finding that it's easier to read supplemental books (gathered from my shelves and the library) than to actually follow the plans as written, since they're so foreign to me.

 

Here is a list of books that I bought or already owned, that I'm using to supplement history & geography (over the course of the year).

 

Ancient Israelites and their Neighbors ~ Broida

Ancient Egyptians and their Neighbors ~ Broida

Life in a Sioux Village ~ Isaacs

Life in a Hopi Village ~ Isaacs

Life on the Trail of Tears ~ Fischer

If You Lived with the Sioux Indians ~ McGovern

If You Lived with the Cherokee ~ Roop

If You Lived with the Hopi ~ Kamma

If You Traveled West in a Covered Wagon ~ Levine

and probably some Bobbie Kalman books.

 

I'd suggest supplementing science with the Let's-Read-and-Find-Out Series.

 

An excellent geography series is the Young Discoverers Series published by Kingfisher (I don't know if this is still in print, however).

[Hunter]

Even if you drop it right now, 10 years from now, I think you are going to be glad you tried it.

 

My mom once told me that I'd never regret anything I tried as much as I'd regret not having tried something. That was before I divorced my husband, and took off for the city, and began my adventures. :lol: I bet she'd like to take THAT advice back!

[neeko]

This is our second year homeschooling, and we have used OM from almost the beginning.  Given this thread, I am starting to wonder... what I'm missing, exactly.  For those who don't find OM enough, what more are you hoping for?  What is it lacking for you?

 

My issues with it so far mostly involve the lackluster science before grade 5, and the lack of scaffolding for writing for 4th and 5th, (well, and we ignore OM math completely) but these have all been pretty easy to fix/overlook for me.  

[Peaceful Isle]

:D, yes Aprilmay, I agree. I needed to try it, and it did teach me some very important lessons, for which I am grateful. Recapturing the simple joy in learning, not pushing too hard for "production" of tangible work, making space for laughing, breathing, chatting, playing....rabbit trails, read alouds, projects...these are things I lost sight of last year, and OM has helped me refind them. THat's a good thing. A very good thing.

 

I am learning to breathe again. To not cram our day with too many expectations. To not think about where we "should" be, but where we are.

 

And that it is totally OKAY to ditch school and drive to DiseyWorld for the day. Which we did. Twice. :D

We are ditching tomorrow for Lego land :-)

[Runningmom80]

Upward journey, thank you for that list! We are headed to the library today, I'm going to see of my twins will cooperate long enough for me to actually look for some of those. :)

[Halcyon]

How do your kids feel about OM? 

 

 

Meh, they don't feel strongly one way or the other, to be honest. They like the crafty stuff, so we'll be doing more of that. They think the grammar is silly. Older likes the science, younger doesn't like his. 

[Hunter]

I think most of us, who have jumped methods, will never be entirely happy with a box, especially when we jump in the middle. There ARE pluses to using a box, any box, that often outweigh any minuses.

 

Neeko, do you have any contact with other OMers or Waldorf homeschoolers online or in real life? Often people newly jumped into a program, or who have only skimmed samples, are unaware of the big picture, and are expecting too much out of a particular grade, because they don't see it as part of a WHOLE. A box is focused on the WHOLE, not individual subjects or grades.

 

Neeko, I have never seen OM, but I pulled my younger out of American School, even though it had been highly successful for his older brother and we all liked it, because people shamed me into believing my "gifted" child needed something befitting his gifts. And that as a "normal" person, I just couldn't trust myself to understand his unique needs like those other equally gifted people could.

 

Just because OM isn't a good fit for others who have not started with it from the beginning, and have gotten used to bits and pieces of other methods, doesn't mean OM is not a good fit for you and yours. Be very slow to jump ship from a box you have used from the beginning and is working!!!

 

I believe my single biggest homeschool mistake was to pull my son out of American School. It was the right program for us at that time. But I didn't trust myself, or the school. 

[umsami]

I'm doing OM4th with my eldest.  Honestly, I've been tweaking it a bit. (Granted I have an older edition.)  I am also using a bunch of the OM3 stories right now, because so far very little has appealed to me in OM4.  Just this week, it started to get more interested. (6th week, I think.)

 

DS cruises through the books...so we're kind of adding in lots on our own as well.

 

Not doing OM math, but using Math in Focus.

 

For English, Galore Park Jr.

 

I am not using a lot, but I bought it used...so I suppose it's not so bad.  Am hoping it grows on me.

 

 

This is my blog of what we've done so far if that helps.  http://waldorfmuslim.blogspot.com

[Runningmom80]

I think most of us, who have jumped methods, will never be entirely happy with a box, especially when we jump in the middle. There ARE pluses to using a box, any box, that often outweigh any minuses.

 

Neeko, do you have any contact with other OMers or Waldorf homeschoolers online or in real life? Often people newly jumped into a program, or who have only skimmed samples, are unaware of the big picture, and are expecting too much out of a particular grade, because they don't see it as part of a WHOLE. A box is focused on the WHOLE, not individual subjects or grades.

 

Neeko, I have never seen OM, but I pulled my younger out of American School, even though it had been highly successful for his older brother and we all liked it, because people shamed me into believing my "gifted" child needed something befitting his gifts. And that as a "normal" person, I just couldn't trust myself to understand his unique needs like those other equally gifted people could.

 

Just because OM isn't a good fit for others who have not started with it from the beginning, and have gotten used to bits and pieces of other methods, doesn't mean OM is not a good fit for you and yours. Be very slow to jump ship from a box you have used from the beginning and is working!!!

 

I believe my single biggest homeschool mistake was to pull my son out of American School. It was the right program for us at that time. But I didn't trust myself, or the school. 

 

After thinking more about this all, and reading ahead in the syllabus, I do think it can be enough, for the right kid, right parent/teacher.  The reason why it doesn't seem like "enough" to me at the moment is because it's very different than the classical model, and yes less rigorous.  (I don't think rigorous is not the end all be all, I was actually trying to get away from rigor when I picked it.) Also, my DS isn't one to just dive into topics on his own, and when I start forcing it, it's just not fun.  So that's what I mean when I say "enough."  I want the words on the page telling me what to do, telling him what to learn. ;)  And I'm only just realizing this after thinking about it last night.

 

The thing is, I do like it, I like how they approach history, and I can imagine where it will go in subsequent years.  I think it would work really well for my younger dd, I am planning on buying the K package next year when my twins are older.

 

For my older DS, who is borderline profoundly gifted, and just very literal and analytical, it's just not his "thing."  I'll admit, I bought it with the intention that I would help him "get out of his head" so to speak, use his imagination, STRETCH.  KWIM?  I love that it is gentle, that it uses stories, etc.  It's right up my alley.  I would have loved it as a child!  But, do you see what I'm doing there? ME, I, not him. This is something I've had to work on a lot with this boy, he is very different from me, and we learn differently.  I'm not sure that I'm honoring who he is with this curriculum, and as new agey and ridiculous as it sounds, that's really important to me.  He isn't in school because I didn't want to make him fit in the "box."  But what am I doing when I say "I want him to be more creative?"  (He is creative in his own way. Just not in the conventional way.  I'm learning, learning, learning.) 

 

In conclusion, I'm not ready to call it quits with this curriculum.  I like how it gives me the ideas of "fun" stuff to do, and a framework for the year.  That being said, I'm thinking long and hard about where we are going with OM, and if we will be on that path for the long haul.  From talking to him yesterday, it seems like probably not more than this year, but we'll see.  We are just finishing week 4, so I'd really like to give it a fair try before I make any final decisions.

 

Sorry for the long diatribe. :leaving:

[Hunter]

Runningmom80, what grade are you using? Like I asked Neeko, are you sure you are using everything the way it is supposed to be used, and do you have a good understanding of the whole curriculum? No matter what curriculum people are using, and I see it over and over that the people who are the most disappointed are the ones not using the materials as they were designed to be used, and have little understanding of the big picture. The happiest people are often those that are using multiple grades at the same time.

 

It can be hard to use a box with a highly/profoundly child, especially if you are trying to challenge them in every subject. We had the most pleasant days when we just let easy things be easy. We used American School when we were attending the Amish/Mennonite church, and my priorities were quite different then than the ones I stressed and cried over before and after. The funny thing is that the boys didn't learn less, while we were doing less and I focused more on character than the academics.

 

And it is okay to focus as much on you as him. The roles of teacher is not insignificant. You need a balance. Catering too much to the child doesn't work for a lot of families. And on the other hand, of course it's not okay to ignore their needs.

[Runningmom80]

Runningmom80, what grade are you using? Like I asked Neeko, are you sure you are using everything the way it is supposed to be used, and do you have a good understanding of the whole curriculum? No matter what curriculum people are using, and I see it over and over that the people who are the most disappointed are the ones not using the materials as they were designed to be used, and have little understanding of the big picture. The happiest people are often those that are using multiple grades at the same time.

 

It can be hard to use a box with a highly/profoundly child, especially if you are trying to challenge them in every subject. We had the most pleasant days when we just let easy things be easy. We used American School when we were attending the Amish/Mennonite church, and my priorities were quite different then than the ones I stressed and cried over before and after. The funny thing is that the boys didn't learn less, while we were doing less and I focused more on character than the academics.

 

And it is okay to focus as much on you as him. The roles of teacher is not insignificant. You need a balance. Catering too much to the child doesn't work for a lot of families. And on the other hand, of course it's not okay to ignore their needs.

 

We are using grade 3.  I downloaded the samples and it just felt better for him.  It still seems almost too easy, but I'm trying to be open minded about that part, he's not yet 7, so I'm not worried about  rigor as much as exposing him to different things. 

 

If I could do multiple grades at once, I'm sure I would be happier with it.  I'm just not about to shell out the money for 3 grades.  Too bad he wasn't born second. :lol:     

 

I definitely agree with you about focusing on character, taking it easy, etc.  It's a top priority with him.  His emotional well being is far more important than his academic achievements.  :iagree:   I don't want to over load him, or expect too much, etc.  And I know he's young enough that we don't have to be very rigorous right now.  I just don't know that he is getting anything out of it at thispoint, which kind of makes it a waste of time?  I don't know, I want to use it for at least another month.....

[jnaj]

I think that with this being our first year homeschooling, we have been trying to figure out what works and what doesn't. I decided to go ahead and bring OM5 back out and do it..today went surprisingly well. My 5th grader even went off on his own to do a report (written, oral, and he is working on a display to go with it..) This is BIG over here. He has always struggled in school, and I saw a spark in him today I haven't seen. He has been RETAINING more since we have started homeschooling, but now he is starting to actually pursue things on his own.. I do think OM is great for allowing that, and letting the child get creative. 

 

I don't think I gave OM a fair shot. Now, with my daughter, she will be MUCH better for a more classical approach. My son not so much. I think I have been mainly worried that he wouldn't be "getting enough" out of OM, but after pulling it back out and really deciding to give it a fair shot I think he will get a lot out of it. I think the problem was more with ME and not with OM.

[Runningmom80]

Oh, the problem is usually me! I'm pretty sure of that. :lol:

 

 

ETA: sorry for hijacking your thread, halcyon!

[jnaj]

Ha yes Halcyon! Sorry for the highjack ;) I can definitely see how OM works for some and doesn't for others though. I think if we had started out more rigorous and then switched to OM it would have definitely been a huge adjustment. 

[Hunter]

With a box, I don't worry about easy. I worry more about something getting skipped if I have skipped grades/lessons. Too often in a box, there is less review for students and for TEACHERS. When some lessons look lean, the TEACHER is sometimes supposed to know how and when to teach some ongoing things that are not pointed out in the lesson.

 

Waldorf is about mind, body and soul. It doesn't focus as much on the mind. So the body and soul activities/parts can look skippable, and the mind lessons/parts too short. Not so. The child is supposed to be spending the afternoon learning how to knit and spending time out of doors. These are considered critical for building a body and soul capable of handling a more rigorous education later on, because they are all connected. Children who run and knit build brain pathways and are calmer than sedentary children.

 

If you view Waldorf through classical glasses it will look inferior. You need to look at Waldorf curricula through Waldorf glasses to be able to evaluate it.

 

I own Waldorf Essentials not OM, but I cannot teach grades 4-6 without having studied EVERY WORD of grades K-3. Waldorf Essentials sells catch up books. I don't know if they would help someone catch up with OM. Waldorf Essentials grade levels often goes on sale for 50% off and the entire set of pdfs can be purchased affordably. I wonder if supplementing with the WE would help. I've always been curious about OM, but knew I couldn't afford the entire thing. I know I cannot teach OM correctly without having K-6 all at once to study.

 

I'd never use OM or any Waldorf grade 3 with a 6 year old, without having the lower level books. If I could only buy one grade I'd have DEFINATELY bought K or grade 1 for the body and soul work and for teacher training. And then piece mealed something on my own to challenge the child.

 

A gifted child being held back in a brick and mortar school where he is held hostage all day is not the same as a child at home working quickly through a grade and then doing something challenging. And no matter how gifted, I've yet to meet a 6 year old who can knit above age level, and very few ready for more advanced art.

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

We are using OM5 for my younger son it is working great for him right now. It leaves room for him to explore other interests along the way. We will be sticking with it.

[Runningmom80]

With a box, I don't worry about easy. I worry more about something getting skipped if I have skipped grades/lessons. Too often in a box, there is less review for students and for TEACHERS. When some lessons look lean, the TEACHER is sometimes supposed to know how and when to teach some ongoing things that are not pointed out in the lesson.

 

Waldorf is about mind, body and soul. It doesn't focus as much on the mind. So the body and soul activities/parts can look skippable, and the mind lessons/parts too short. Not so. The child is supposed to be spending the afternoon learning how to knit and spending time out of doors. These are considered critical for building a body and soul capable of handling a more rigorous education later on, because they are all connected. Children who run and knit build brain pathways and are calmer than sedentary children.

 

If you view Waldorf through classical glasses it will look inferior. You need to look at Waldorf curricula through Waldorf glasses to be able to evaluate it.

 

I own Waldorf Essentials not OM, but I cannot teach grades 4-6 without having studied EVERY WORD of grades K-3. Waldorf Essentials sells catch up books. I don't know if they would help someone catch up with OM. Waldorf Essentials grade levels often goes on sale for 50% off and the entire set of pdfs can be purchased affordably. I wonder if supplementing with the WE would help. I've always been curious about OM, but knew I couldn't afford the entire thing. I know I cannot teach OM correctly without having K-6 all at once to study.

 

I'd never use OM or any Waldorf grade 3 with a 6 year old, without having the lower level books. If I could only buy one grade I'd have DEFINATELY bought K or grade 1 for the body and soul work and for teacher training. And then piece mealed something on my own to challenge the child.

 

A gifted child being held back in a brick and mortar school where he is held hostage all day is not the same as a child at home working quickly through a grade and then doing something challenging. And no matter how gifted, I've yet to meet a 6 year old who can knit above age level, and very few ready for more advanced art.

 

 

This is much food or thought, thank you so much for your input!

 

It appears I'm doing it all wrong. :lol: . We do "school" in the morning, it only takes an hour, so most of his day is free. Hes not knitting though. ;)

 

I'm grateful for the weekend to meditate on all of this.

[umsami]

Just thought I'd add that Sunday is Michaelmas.  Big Deal in many Waldorf circles.  We're taking a "fun" day today to try and create dragon stuff.  Found this pattern/tutorial online which me and DS are going to attempt.  He wants to sew it all himself...so my philosophy.... go for it.  

 

DS1 is majorly into dragons...so he also spent a bunch of time on the American Museum of Natural History site reading about them.

 

We're also going to attempt dragon bread on Sunday.  I think we're actually going to make "dragon pretzels" using an Annie's kit I have...but we may actually go all-out and try bread.

 

We finished our "real" schooling in about an hour today.  Finished up chapter 4 in Math in Focus, did an English exercise in Glaore Park, talked about a book DS finished yesterday ("Sing Down the Moon").  We had done our OM3 and 4 stuff earlier this week.  We'll probably play recorders and maybe do some painting or coloring of dragons later today...depending on how our sewing project goes.

[jnaj]

Thanks for the detailed response Hunter. Lots to think about and so true. My son actually went to a Waldorf school for a few years, and what I liked about OM was that the 5th grade seemed Waldorfy but not *too* Waldorfy (is that even a word?)- there are aspects I love about it. It definitely fits my son's learning style much better than my daughter's.

[Runningmom80]

Thanks for the detailed response Hunter. Lots to think about and so true. My son actually went to a Waldorf school for a few years, and what I liked about OM was that the 5th grade seemed Waldorfy but not *too* Waldorfy (is that even a word?)- there are aspects I love about it. It definitely fits my son's learning style much better than my daughter's.

 

Interesting!  I looked at the new waldorf school opening up in our area for my twins and it just didn't feel right.  I love the progressive education models, but I think I lean more Montessori than Waldorf.

[jnaj]

Amber- yes, we learned a lot during our years in the Waldorf school. It wasn't completely for us..there are aspects I love, but also aspects I don't. It was definitely an experience! My daughter did enjoy going to preschool a couple mornings a week at the Waldorf school- her teachers were some of the most kind, caring people I have ever met. I cannot say the same for my son's experience though. 

[Hunter]

When using a curriculum that uses LITTLE bookwork, just using the bookwork is NOT doing the curriculum!

 

CM and Waldorf leave the afternoons free of bookwork, because there is so much else to DO. And those activities are believed to be CRUCIAL to preparing for FUTURE bookwork.

 

Ambleside Online is constantly stressing that their booklist is NOT the curriculum. Is there an OM or OM friendly Waldorf forum where people can learn to use OM correctly? OM bookwork cannot just be substituted for TWTM bookwork!

 

New to OM/ Waldorf students require serious remediation in knitting and the arts and rhythm. The remediation required of TWTM to OM/Waldorf is as serious as the remediation required from Waldorf to TWTM. If the transition from TWTM to OM is too easy, I suspect the parent is not doing something right.

 

But again, I have not seen OM, but have Waldorf Essentials. Grade 3, 4, 6 Waldorf Essentials would require SERIOUS remediation in form drawing, painting, drawing, knitting, building, festivals, recorder playing and more. It would NOT be easy! And it would require the K/1/2 curriculum or the catch up book.

[umsami]

When using a curriculum that uses LITTLE bookwork, just using the bookwork is NOT doing the curriculum!

 

CM and Waldorf leave the afternoons free of bookwork, because there is so much else to DO. And those activities are believed to be CRUCIAL to preparing for FUTURE bookwork.

 

Ambleside Online is constantly stressing that their booklist is NOT the curriculum. Is there an OM or OM friendly Waldorf forum where people can learn to use OM correctly? OM bookwork cannot just be substituted for TWTM bookwork!

 

New to OM/ Waldorf students require serious remediation in knitting and the arts and rhythm. The remediation required of TWTM to OM/Waldorf is as serious as the remediation required from Waldorf to TWTM. If the transition from TWTM to OM is too easy, I suspect the parent is not doing something right.

 

But again, I have not seen OM, but have Waldorf Essentials. Grade 3, 4, 6 Waldorf Essentials would require SERIOUS remediation in form drawing, painting, drawing, knitting, building, festivals, recorder playing and more. It would NOT be easy! And it would require the K/1/2 curriculum or the catch up book.

 

Just wanted to put in a definite recommendation for Melissa's "Coming to Waldorf Late" series.  It was a big big help for me.  I actually bought the "Coming to 3rd grade" late book last year.  There's so much there.  

 

We also do form drawing from earlier forms in our 4th Grade OM...even though it really isn't in the guide I have.  The 4th grade forms in Melissa's 4th grade are too difficult, so we've gone back to some earlier forms.  This is a great chart on her site.  http://waldorfessentials.com/blog/2013/08/coming-late-to-waldorf-from-the-archives/

 

I cannot knit, however...and have had no luck learning.  We do other handiwork.  DS loves using the knitting spools (I think some people call them French knitters) and weaving.   We're also doing remedial recorder using the 9-note method.  

[Runningmom80]

When using a curriculum that uses LITTLE bookwork, just using the bookwork is NOT doing the curriculum!

 

CM and Waldorf leave the afternoons free of bookwork, because there is so much else to DO. And those activities are believed to be CRUCIAL to preparing for FUTURE bookwork.

 

Ambleside Online is constantly stressing that their booklist is NOT the curriculum. Is there an OM or OM friendly Waldorf forum where people can learn to use OM correctly? OM bookwork cannot just be substituted for TWTM bookwork!

 

New to OM/ Waldorf students require serious remediation in knitting and the arts and rhythm. The remediation required of TWTM to OM/Waldorf is as serious as the remediation required from Waldorf to TWTM. If the transition from TWTM to OM is too easy, I suspect the parent is not doing something right.

 

But again, I have not seen OM, but have Waldorf Essentials. Grade 3, 4, 6 Waldorf Essentials would require SERIOUS remediation in form drawing, painting, drawing, knitting, building, festivals, recorder playing and more. It would NOT be easy! And it would require the K/1/2 curriculum or the catch up book.

 

This makes absolute sense.  Lots to think about.  Thank you for your help & participation in this thread!

[Hunter]

It's really good to hear that Waldorf Essential catch up books are an option for OM catch up.

 

Knitting is considered crucial to some curricula. It is believed that the rhythm of knitting heals brain damage and causes new brain pathways to form that are not created with other kinds of handwork. Walking and running are also supposed to help these pathways form. That is ONE of the reasons why afternoons outside are so important.

 

For adults, learning a straight knit stitch is not that hard. There are youtube videos. There are often people in the community that would be willing to teach you, for a trade of services. 

 

We all need to triage, and drop things that just are not falling into place. Don't drop knitting unless you have to. Just a straight knit stitch. No purling. No counting. No shaping. Just a straight stitch to make scarves and prayer shawls, which are just really big scarves.

 

You can make your own knitting needles by using a pencil sharpener on wooden dowels. Then sand them.

[roanna]

It's really good to hear that Waldorf Essential catch up books are an option for OM catch up.

 

Knitting is considered crucial to some curricula. It is believed that the rhythm of knitting heals brain damage and causes new brain pathways to form that are not created with other kinds of handwork. 

 

I just happened to be reading this thread when you mentioned this, I had to comment.  

My mom had major brain surgery 2 years ago and changed everything about her personality.  She barely talked for quite some time. She began to just sit in a knitting class with a friend..just listening to the ladies chat.  But then she began to actually learn to knit.  It's now nearly two years later and she finds a lot of comfort and fun in knitting and she is very close to what she used to be --minus a forehead plate!  

 

I keep reading Waldorf threads but scared to try it.  :)  I really want to use the math as a supplement for my visual learner but nearly every curriculum is sold as one for 2nd/3rd grade.  There are not good samples on the Waldorf Essentials website of it.