How did AoPS prepare your students for the SAT and college

[raristy]

For those of you who used AoPS with your now graduated high school students, how did you think it prepared them for the SAT and for college? 

 

I'd love to hear your input on this.  Please let me know.

 

Thanks much,

 

Rosa

[regentrude]

My DD has received an excellent math preparation through AoPS. The curriculum teaches critical thinking to a degreee I have not seen with other programs and covers math more thoroughly and widely than traditional curricula. Many topics in the books are typically not covered until university math classes. AoPS gave DD a good preparation for excelling in calculus based physics at the university in 11th grade, and for doing well on the SAT and math SAT2 subject test.

 

Both DH and I teach physics at a university and know what kind of math preparation we would wish for our students. AoPS is a dream come true; it teaches math just the way we wish students would learn it.

 

This said: the fantastically thorough math preparation with AoPS does not eliminate the need for targeted test preparation with test prep books geared specifically towards the SAT and SAT2! It is not sufficient to know the math itself inside out; the student must also become familiar with the format and style of questioning and drill to do the problems quickly, know when to use a calculator for time advantage and when not, when to play off the multiple choice format to work backwards from the answers. Targeted test prep is a must.

[snowbeltmom]

For those of you who used AoPS with your now graduated high school students, how did you think it prepared them for the SAT and for college? 

 

I'd love to hear your input on this.  Please let me know.

 

Thanks much,

 

Rosa

My oldest has not graduated, but he has completed the AoPS books through pre-calc.  AoPS has prepared my son very well for the SAT and for college level science and math courses.

 

Thanks to AoPS, he never had to prep for the math section of the ACT, SAT or SAT II.  He received top scores on all three tests.

[8filltheheart]

Well, here is my opinion fwiw. I think gauging the worth of a math program on SAT scores is a false premise. Being able to solve a group of math problems in approx 60 secs per problem demonstrates the ability to solve a select group of limited types of problems. AoPS develops skills that far surpass any critical mathematical thinking found on theSAT.

 

As far as preparing for college, a student that has successfully completed AoPS will be extremely well-prepared for college and will be far ahead of their peers.

[dhudson]

Whew! We moved to AoPS a year ago and I have found that my ds is challenged in math for the first time.

[snowbeltmom]

AoPS develops skills that far surpass any critical mathematical thinking found on theSAT.

 

:iagree: 

AoPS goes into much greater depth than what is tested on the standardized tests. If your student is using AoPS, you may want to have him take the AMC's.  The critical mathematical thinking required to do well on the AMC's far surpasses the skills needed to get a top score on the SAT, ACT or SAT II and would be a better indicator of his mathematical ability.

[raristy]

Thanks so much for all the great feedback. I most appreciate it. Indeed, my highest priority is for my children to develop good critical thinking skills, love math, see how it is applicable to day-to-day life and have a solid math foundation for college. In light of the reality of having to take college entrance exams, I think it is wise to consider this aspect, not as an evaluation criteria as I agree they are not a good indicator of true/in-depth mathematical knowledge but to plan for any adjustments necessary for successful preparation. I like the idea of sprinkling AoPS with test prep material to familiarize the student with the type of questions.

 

Any other insights would be most appreciated. Thanks much!!!

[lewelma]

For my ds, AoPS has been an entrance into a world rarely seen by high school students -- that of the true mathematician.  The program has a large emphasis on proofs and not just in the traditional sense of geometry, but also algebra, number theory, and combinatorics.  For my son it has led him down a path to being a 'quant.'  He doesn't want to be a math teacher or a scientist, he wants to be a true mathematician.  The training that AoPS provides is an entire step above most other math programs because it focuses on true mathematical thinking rather than replication of methods that many other programs focus on.

 

Ruth in NZ 

[daijobu]

 

AoPS goes into much greater depth than what is tested on the standardized tests. If your student is using AoPS, you may want to have him take the AMC's.  The critical mathematical thinking required to do well on the AMC's far surpasses the skills needed to get a top score on the SAT, ACT or SAT II and would be a better indicator of his mathematical ability.

 

I agree.  I think many students waste their time trying to attain a top SAT score, when they are already achieving a very good score.  I think the difference between a 90th %ile score and a 98th %ile score is not worth the effort.  

 

But getting an oustanding AMC score is a real boost to your college application...not to mention really great preparation for college coursework.  

[regentrude]

  I think many students waste their time trying to attain a top SAT score, when they are already achieving a very good score.  I think the difference between a 90th %ile score and a 98th %ile score is not worth the effort.  

 

 

That depends entirely on what university the student is shooting for.

 

90th percentile scores are, in all three categories, below 700; 98th percentile scores are 750-770.

For the CR+M composite you are looking at 1300 for 90th vs mid 1400s for 98th.

This will make quite a difference if a student is interested in attending a selective school.

 

It can also make a significant difference in scholarship money, something that is relevant for most students who are not independently wealthy. The effort may well be worth thousands of dollars, which most families on these boards would hardly call "wasted time".

 

 

[Muttichen]

I can't imagine a student with an outstanding score on the AMC not acing the SAT.    

[Muttichen]

I can't imagine a student with an outstanding score on the AMC not acing the SAT.    

[Laura in CA]

I can't imagine a student with an outstanding score on the AMC not acing the SAT.

Oh, I can ... :)

I know at least 3, maybe 4 young men with high AMC, AIME, and even USAMO scores who never got 800 on the math part of the SAT. (They all did, of course, score 800 on the Math Level 2 SAT subject test.) To be sure, their scores were mid- to high 700s, but that perfect score (which is what I would consider "acing" the SAT) eluded them. I wouldn't go so far as to call it a "badge of honor" -- it was frustrating & surprising at first, but then rather amusing when each realized he wasn't the only one ...

[Muttichen]

The pp was talking about the difference between a score in the 90th percentile and a score in the 98th.  A score in the mid to high 700s would be 98th. That is definitely worth shooting for and it's something strong math kids are capable of.  I agree that an 800 can be elusive and isn't worth a lot of effort. Honestly, I don't think a 780 or 790 is much different in the eyes of an admissions officer.

 

My ds22 was a three-time USAMO qualifier and the last time he took the SAT, he only got 720 on the math (he had gotten 800s the other times),so I know that can happen.  :lol:  I was so shocked I ordered the question and answer service to see what happened.  He only missed three questions. The funny thing was that his friend, another USAMO qualifier who also had always gotten 800 also got 720 that day. They were sure there was a problem with the test!

[snowbeltmom]

 Honestly, I don't think a 780 or 790 is much different in the eyes of an admissions officer.

 

 

:iagree:  

The difference between a 780 and 800 is one careless mistake.  Imo, the SAT is unable to distinguish the top math students and that is why some colleges request AMC/AIME, etc. scores.

 

I read a thread years ago on another list that suggested that kids take the SAT as soon as they complete the math tested on the SAT, which for kids advancing to the AIME and beyond is usually in 9th grade at the latest.  Parents said that some of their kids' middle school SAT math scores were higher than when they took the SAT as a high school junior because by that point it had been so long since they had seen that type of math and they made careless mistakes.

 

My oldest will be taking the SAT again this fall in an attempt to raise the reading score.  I will be curious to see how he does on the math section since it has been a few years since he has done that type of math.