Math advice? Abeka 5 to... AoPS Prealgebra too much

[twoplustrips]

I need some advice.  My daughter is very bright, but she does not enjoy math as much as language arts.  She gets it.  But she makes many careless errors.

 

We've done Abeka from 1st grade (when she was Kindergarten age) to 5th grade last year (she was 4th grade age).  This year, she begged me to not do Abeka again - because the worksheets are very long - 2 sides with lots of review each day.  Last year, 5th grade Abeka, there were very few new topics, and she seemed bored, too.  This summer, she has been finishing Life of Fred Decimals and Percents (she did Fractions with 4th grade Abeka, Decimals and Percents with 5th grade Abeka).  After Decimals and Percents, LoF moves to Pre-Algebra.  And since she didn't struggle at all with math concepts last year in Abeka, I thought maybe we could jump up to a pre-algebra program this year...

 

So, I bought Art of Problem Solving Pre-algebra.  I LOVE IT!  But, I am more math oriented than she is.  She was excited at the thought of having few problems to do each day...  BUT, we are 3 days in to the book, and she is really struggling.  I had to explain concepts to her multiple times, and I still don't know that she understands it.  They are teaching the "whys" of addition...but all the letters - a, b, c... - confuse my daughter.  I worked through AoPS this summer, so I know it doesn't get easier.  As much as I love the program, I am thinking that it just won't work for DD.

 

So, any advice?  I am also intrigued by Elementary Algebra by Jacobs...but now I worry about spending $$$ on another math program that may be too advanced...  I hate to go back to Abeka...but I know Abeka, and I know she can handle it...  Hive - please help!!!

 

Kathy

[Matryoshka]

AoPS Prealgebra is a very Algebra-y Prealgebra. I haven't ever used Abeka, but a typical math sequence after 5th grade is 6th grade math then Prealgebra, and most Prealgeba programs are much more gentle and nowhere near as intense as AoPS.  Jumping right into Jacobs Algebra from 5th grade math, even though Jacobs is said to be a more "gentle" Algebra program, still seems like a big leap, especially if she's not a math-oriented kid.  It's still Algebra.   Maybe a more "standard" Prealgebra program that has a more gradual approach to things like variables, negative numbers, and exponents, and then you could even give the AoPS another go, or try Jacobs then?

[boscopup]

I think I'd go look at either a 6th grade program that includes some prealgebra (like Math Mammoth might be a good choice) or an easier prealgebra first (MUS maybe?). It sounds like A Beka 5 to AoPS Prealgebra is probably a leap. I would not recommend Jacobs Algebra yet. It is a true Algebra.

 

I'm using AoPS Prealgebra after Singapore 5 (with CWP5), but I don't know how Singapore and A Beka compare. I have Dolciani Prealgebra here for any topics we need to spend a little more time in. So far, we've only done one chapter of AoPS through the Review section. We'll do the Challenge section next week. I added a couple sections of Dolciani for specific topics that I felt like he needed more practice in.

 

Keep in mind that Prealgebra usually comes after 6th grade math. The reason why some people use it after Singapore 5 is because Singapore 6 repeats a lot of Singapore 5. I would not suggest going to AoPS Prealgebra after just any 5th grade math program. Singapore tends to be advanced. When my son completed Singapore 5, he would have placed into Saxon Algebra 1/2, for example, not 7/6 (he would have placed into 7/6 after finishing Singapore 4A and part of 4B). I know A Beka is advanced in the early grades, but I've heard it majorly slows down around grades 4-6 or maybe 5-6. I can't remember. So you may still need 6th grade math. Plus if she doesn't like math, she may not be an AoPS candidate period.

[twoplustrips]

I have Saxon 7/6 here, and it looks like all review of what she has done.  Maybe the last 10 lessons would be new material.

 

That's the issues I was having with Abeka.  The first semester is all review.  We spend half the year waiting to learn something new.  And even then, it didn't seem like there was much new in Abeka 5 second semester...

 

Maybe I should look at Singapore 6 or 5?  Or go with Life of Fred Pre-algebra only?  Or would Saxon 8/7 be good?  Or I even have Lial's Basic College Mathematics?  Any other thoughts?

[jennynd]

Maybe try placement test for SM and see where she should be?

http://www.singaporemath.com/Placement_Test_s/86.htm

 

Many kids here who use AOPS did SM. I think even AOPS folks suggested using SM prior to AOPS. So I will give SM a try. It can move very fast if a student is capable. You do want to use at least one of the SM IP or CWP if not both if you plan to go AOPS.

[Arcadia]

I need some advice.  My daughter is very bright, but she does not enjoy math as much as language arts.  She gets it.  But she makes many careless errors.

....

So, I bought Art of Problem Solving Pre-algebra.  I LOVE IT!  But, I am more math oriented than she is.  She was excited at the thought of having few problems to do each day...  BUT, we are 3 days in to the book, and she is really struggling.  I had to explain concepts to her multiple times, and I still don't know that she understands it.  They are teaching the "whys" of addition...but all the letters - a, b, c... - confuse my daughter. 

My older was in public school for K & 1st and they use triangles and squares to represent unknowns. That makes it easier to understand that instead of triangles, it is now x,y,z,a,b,c.  My younger completed Dragonbox2 on the iPad before he started AoPS pre-algebra.  He had no problem transitioning from SM5 to the prealgebra book. He did Chapter 10 to 15 first than went back to Chapter 1.  He is now at chapter 5 review.

My kids enjoyed the AoPS videos and there  is no harm in watching before doing the book even though everyone has different opinion about that. http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/Videos/index.php?type=prealgebra

 

That's the issues I was having with Abeka.  The first semester is all review.  We spend half the year waiting to learn something new.  And even then, it didn't seem like there was much new in Abeka 5 second semester...

 

Maybe I should look at Singapore 6 or 5?  Or go with Life of Fred Pre-algebra only?  Or would Saxon 8/7 be good?  Or I even have Lial's Basic College Mathematics?  Any other thoughts?

Review is good to consolidate and work on careless mistakes. If you get Singapore Primary Math, I'll go for SM5 as SM6 is mainly review.

[Tanikit]

The jump to letters does often confuse kids - just change every letter to something she likes 3a + 2a = ? become 3(chocolates) + 2(chocolates) = and they automatically know the answer simply because they can see it and it is no longer abstract - you just have to remind them that the answer is not just 5 it is 5 chocolates - (or 5a.) Once they get over having letters there and can see them as "something" algebra itself becomes easy.

[kiwik]

No personal experience but I have read in several threads that AOPS pre-algebra is somehow more difficult to work with than the algebra. Maybe do a search I think the thread was within the last three months.

[twoplustrips]

Thanks for the advice!!!  I forgot about the videos.  I think I will give them a try at the beginning of the week, then if she still feels overwhelmed, I'll probably try SM5.  Thanks again!

[kiana]

Yeah, I think that jumping from regular 5th grade to majorly difficult pre-algebra may be too tough.

 

Since she did well with LOF, how about doing LOF pre-algebra, and then giving AOPS another try (since you own it) -- if she's still not ready, re-evaluate there?

[RootAnn]

We use Abeka & I've seen 1-6, skipped 7, & went to directly into their pre-algebra. (IMO, Abeka's Pre-Algebra is more like Lial's BCM in that it spends a lot of the time reviewing the previous math concepts before jumping into algebra-type concepts. If you compare the scope & sequence to AOPS or some of the other texts recommended on this board, you would see what I mean. Abeka's - note how few 'algebra' topics are listed in pre-algebra. MUS - list of lesson topics. AOPS list of topics by section) As others have said, you need a bridge between Abeka 5 & AOPS Pre-Algebra. There are probably other (more gentle) pre-algebra programs that you could go straight into from 5. MUS, perhaps? Saxon 8/7, maybe. Or something like Key to Algebra. 

 

Hands On Equations (or better yet - the Dragonbox apps) would help her with the "letter" issue, IMO.

[daijobu]

 

So, I bought Art of Problem Solving Pre-algebra.  I LOVE IT!  But, I am more math oriented than she is.  She was excited at the thought of having few problems to do each day...  BUT, we are 3 days in to the book, and she is really struggling.  I had to explain concepts to her multiple times, and I still don't know that she understands it.  They are teaching the "whys" of addition...but all the letters - a, b, c... - confuse my daughter.  I worked through AoPS this summer, so I know it doesn't get easier.  As much as I love the program, I am thinking that it just won't work for DD.

 

So, any advice? 

 

This sounds familiar.  I can't tell you how many times I had to tell dd that a^m = a*a*a*a... (m times).  over and over again.  

 

We didn't use Abeka, but I would argue that AOPS Pre Algebra does get easier in the second half.  I think it's a matter of getting the hang of doing the problem sets without memorizing too much.  If you love AOPS, I would stick with it and see if it doesn't get better.  Go slow now, and then pick up speed later.