Changed Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Now that dd has started 9th grade we're trying to plan out her high school years. She's wanting to take 9 AP exams, but we don't mind dropping a couple if we need to later on. Since this is all new to me, would you mind looking over our plans? 9th Writing I Physiology and Health Psychology AP U.S. Government AP Human Geography Business Law Geometry Chemistry with lab 10th Writing II Algebra II AP U.S. History AP Environmental Science American Literature Bible 11th Pre-Calc British Literature Photography Spanish I AP Biology with Lab AP Economics 12th Spanish II AP Statistics AP World History In case you're wondering why 12th grade looks so light, it's because she's enrolled in American School as a "spine" and then we're adding our own AP courses. She'll be done with their program in three years or less (She's already finished Physiology and Health, and Psychology and Writing I will be done this week). Thanks, Vicki :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 With all the planned AP courses, I'm assuming that college is the goal after high school. I strongly encourage you (or your DD) to research the admission requirements at several colleges/universities that your DD is likely to apply to. You will want to be certain that you are meeting or exceeding all of their requirements. If they have "recommendations" and your DD is very interested in that school, be sure to meet those as well. Here's my thoughts: 1. You should have 4 full English credits. A full credit will include writing, literature, grammar/spelling. I'm seeing just writing freshman year, writing and literature sophomore year, literature only junior year, and nothing senior year. 2. Looks like you have 4 solid credits for math, 5 for social studies, 2 credits foreign language. All good. 3. Some other credits that some schools will want to see: 1 credit PE, 1 credit fine/performing arts, 1 credit computer. Also, if the student only has 3 credits senior year, I'd want to be able to clearly show what ELSE of significance she was doing that year. Colleges do not want to see a year of "coasting," especially senior year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Changed Posted April 28, 2013 Author Share Posted April 28, 2013 With all the planned AP courses, I'm assuming that college is the goal after high school. I strongly encourage you (or your DD) to research the admission requirements at several colleges/universities that your DD is likely to apply to. You will want to be certain that you are meeting or exceeding all of their requirements. If they have "recommendations" and your DD is very interested in that school, be sure to meet those as well. Here's my thoughts: 1. You should have 4 full English credits. A full credit will include writing, literature, grammar/spelling. I'm seeing just writing freshman year, writing and literature sophomore year, literature only junior year, and nothing senior year. 2. Looks like you have 4 solid credits for math, 5 for social studies, 2 credits foreign language. All good. 3. Some other credits that some schools will want to see: 1 credit PE, 1 credit fine/performing arts, 1 credit computer. Also, if the student only has 3 credits senior year, I'd want to be able to clearly show what ELSE of significance she was doing that year. Colleges do not want to see a year of "coasting," especially senior year. I listed the freshman year English credit as Writing because that's what AS calls it, but it is grammar and writing. I will work on adding in a literature component. For sophomore year's U.S. history course we will be using Notgrass' Exploring America as one of our texts. Along with the Writing II course (grammar) from AS, it will be another full credit of English. World history her senior year will be another English credit due to using Notgrass' world history course. Sorry I didn't make any of that clear before. :001_smile: I'm not sure what to add to AS's British Literature to make a full English credit. ?? I was thinking the photography class would count as a fine arts credit. :confused: If not, I have that Mona Lisa book that is recommended often (can't remember the name of it)...maybe I could piece together an art appreciation class. A computer credit and PE would probably be good. Thanks for that reminder! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Changed Posted April 28, 2013 Author Share Posted April 28, 2013 So, an updated plan-- 9th English Physiology and Health Psychology AP U.S. Government AP Human Geography Business Law Geometry Chemistry with lab 10th English (with Am. Lit. focus) Algebra II AP U.S. History AP Environmental Science Bible PE 11th Pre-Calc Photography Spanish I AP Biology with Lab AP Economics British Literature + ? 12th Spanish II AP Statistics AP World History English Bible computer class TBD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Looks good! As long as the student is also writing during the literature study, that's fine. It doesn't actually have to be a stand-alone writing program. Also, I missed seeing the photography course; that should work for the fine arts credit. I wish you the best of luck. We also sketched out all 4 years when DD was heading into 9th. We've changed the plan every year since so stay flexible! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Changed Posted April 29, 2013 Author Share Posted April 29, 2013 Looks good! As long as the student is also writing during the literature study, that's fine. It doesn't actually have to be a stand-alone writing program. Also, I missed seeing the photography course; that should work for the fine arts credit. I wish you the best of luck. We also sketched out all 4 years when DD was heading into 9th. We've changed the plan every year since so stay flexible! Thanks so much! I'm sure we'll be changing the plan several times a year! :tongue_smilie: DD goes from wanting to just be done with school so she can get a job, to wanting nine AP exams and to graduate from Harvard. :eek: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst Posted April 29, 2013 Share Posted April 29, 2013 Somewhere out there is a list of all the AP classes, grades of students who took the test and score distribution for that grade. That might be of interest to you as you plan. Also, be sure you check the college board website that you are not trying to do two tests in the same year that are given at the same time. AP dates are fixed. I hear that this issue has been know to trip up students in the past. Good luck! Sounds like an interesting four years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori D. Posted April 29, 2013 Share Posted April 29, 2013 re: course load in 9th grade Yikes! That freshman year is a *killer*! Are ALL of those 1 credit classes?!? If so, that's *8* credits (typically translates to 1 hour/day per credit, so 8 hours a day of school)! And HEAVY classes -- TWO AP classes, Chemistry, Psychology, and Business Law... Esp. to help a student transition into high school level work, and if you're planning TWO AP classes, JMO, but I would instead include something "lite" and of personal interest/fun for DD to balance out the heftier courses... For example, what if 4 of those (Health; Physiology; Psychology; Business Law) each became a 9-week unit that all together added up to 1.0 credit of elective work? You'd still have 6 credits (with 2 high level AP courses), but you'd be getting it down to a manageable workload. OR, if those are 1 credit courses, then bump the heavier 2 courses to future years, and move your PE into 9th grade to lighten the load a bit (see suggested schedule below)... re: PE What about spreading PE out as 0.25 credit each year? Makes it easier to accomplish, some of it can be done over the summer, and it can be helping to build a healthy lifestyle pattern of regularly getting out and being active (which helps throw off stress and helps our brains focus/function better) -- rather than clumping it into just one year and then forgetting about being active regularly... Similarly with Bible; what exactly is your goal for including this? It's not a requirement for high school graduation or college admission. Colleges often ignore this type of credit. Is it for personal knowledge? To develop personal regular lifestyle habit? Or is it because it's part of the Notgrass? (If so, you might want to look at some past threads on counting credits with Notgrass, and on how the Bible and Literature are handled.) re: science Also, wouldn't Environmental Science be a "lighter" science than Chemistry, even if it's AP? Might it make more sense to do the easier science in 9th grade when you have DD doing such a heavy load to help lighten it? Just a thought! Or does the AP only offer the Environmental Science when DD would be in 10th grade? re: AP You have EIGHT AP courses. Even top tier schools are probably not going to be looking for more than five. Are you looking for college credit to be awarded for these? If so, be aware that many colleges are moving away from awarding college credit for AP, and if you want/need that credit to lighten the college load, it may be a better option to look into CLEP tests for some of those social studies courses rather than AP -- or, do dual enrollment (i.e., the foreign language) so it will transfer and ALSO count as the foreign language requirement for DD's future degree program requirement. It would help to know what DD is shooting for. From this list, it sounds like she is heavily interested in a STEM field? (Lots of science and higher math here.) If so, then those would be the areas to make sure to get AP tests in, and maybe reduce some of the Social Studies ones, of which you list 5 (Gov't; Geography; US History; Economics; World History). A possible option: consider dropping the Gov't and Econ. APs and just go with standard 0.5 credit "get 'er done" courses, and save going for AP in the areas where DD might also have the possibility of college credit, or it boosting her into honors courses at college -- for example, the sciences, foreign language, or math. Sometimes reducing the AP level helps you do BETTER overall, and that looks much better in the end. Remember, it looks a LOT better to colleges to see three or four AP tests ALL with scores of 4s and 5s -- rather than eight or nine AP tests with scores of mostly 3s and a few 4s. re: getting into top tier schools Remember, they are NOT just looking for LOTS of APs. You need to stand out in some way, which usually comes through involvement in extracurriculars, a senior project, an internship, volunteering/community service, and possibly travel / living abroad / short term missions/ et.al. Instead of 9 APs, seriously consider only doing 4, maybe 5, in a wide variety of subject areas (math, science, social studies, foreign language) to show strong academics across the board, AND to leave time for involvement in the NON-academics that will make DD *shine* on college applications. :) Also, top tier schools do NOT award college credit for AP. They also do NOT accept transfer credits from any other school, nor do they accept CLEP tests for credit. So the value of AP in applying for these schools is to show high level of academics for admission consideration, and possibly being eligible for honors level freshman college classes. JMO, but below my suggested schedule. BEST of luck to your DD with her VERY full plate! Warmest regards, Lori D. 9th 1.00 credit = English 1.00 credit = Math: Geometry 1.00 credit = Science: Chemistry with lab 1.00 credit = Social Studies: AP U.S. Government 1.00 credit = Social Studies: AP Human Geography 0.50 credit = elective of choice (if she's really into Psych. or Bus. Law, then do half in 9th, half in 10th) 0.25 credit = PE 0.25 credit = Bible TOTAL = 6.0 credits, allowing for: transition into high school; exploring possible extracurriculars of interest; developing PE and Bible as regular healthy lifestyle choices; allowing for exploration with some elective time 10th 1.00 credit = English (with Am. Lit. focus) 1.00 credit = Math: Algebra II 1.00 credit = Social Studies: AP U.S. History 1.00 credit = Science: AP Environmental Science 1.00 credit = elective: Health & Physiology 0.50 credit = elective of choice (if she's really into Psych. or Bus. Law, then do half in 9th, half in 10th) 0.25 credit = PE 0.25 credit = Bible TOTAL = 6.0 credits, (same rationale as above) 11th 1.00 credit = English (with British Lit. focus) 1.00 credit = Math: Pre-Calc 1.00 credit = Science: AP Biology with Lab 1.00 credit = Social Studies: AP Economics 1.00 credit = Foreign Language: Spanish I 1.00 credit = Fine Arts: Photography 0.25 credit = PE 0.25 credit = Bible TOTAL = 6.5 credits 12th 1.00 credit = English (with World Lit. focus) 1.00 credit = Math: AP Statistics 1.00 credit = Social Studies: AP World History 1.00 credit = Foreign Language: Spanish II 1.00 credit = Computer class TBD 1.00 credit = elective: (if she's really into Psych. or Bus. Law, then do the other one here) 0.25 credit = PE 0.25 credit = Bible PS Oops, okay, just NOW, I see from your post that DD has already started 9th grade. Does that mean she started halfway through the 8th grade year (this year) and you are counting credits towards next year and planning on next year as a full 9th grade? OR... has DD been doing 9th grade all year and is almost done with 9th entirely? If the former (getting an early jump on 9th grade at the end of this year), then many of my comments may not apply, as some credits will be completed and then DD will be doing a reasonable load next year at the start of the full 9th grade year... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Changed Posted April 30, 2013 Author Share Posted April 30, 2013 Somewhere out there is a list of all the AP classes, grades of students who took the test and score distribution for that grade. That might be of interest to you as you plan. Also, be sure you check the college board website that you are not trying to do two tests in the same year that are given at the same time. AP dates are fixed. I hear that this issue has been know to trip up students in the past. Good luck! Sounds like an interesting four years. Thanks for this tip! I never dreamed the tests would be at the same time. I'll have to check into that. Lori D.-- Thanks so much for your thoughts! I've read many of your past posts and they are always helpful. First of all, yes, DD finished 8th grade super early and we started right into 9th grade in January. So she got a head start and has just finished psychology, physiology and health (one course), and writing. Now I'm trying to piece together her government and and human geography course so she can get started on those, as well as the business law (her interest). Once she gets started on those she'll start the science and math. She likes to stagger them rather than jump right in to all of them at once. I do like your idea to make PE and Bible spread out over all four years. You are correct in that I only had the two bible credits because we're using Notgrass. I went back and read past threads and see that it will be a little light, and rather than add to it maybe I just count the U.S. and World History courses as each .25 credits. DD is actually not interested (so she says) in a STEM field at all. She actually wants to go to law school. BUT she changes her mind every year and is very good in math (and loves science) so I'm trying to keep all her options open so when she graduates she'll be able to do whatever it is she's decided on. Does that make sense? She will be going to our local university for her first four years b/c that's all we'll be able to afford. Now way can I afford the top tier tutions and we both feel strongly about not acquiring too many student loans. The local U as of right now accepts all the AP courses and gives 3-6 credit hours for each. DD chose the ones she wanted to do, and she's doing them so that her college load will be lightened and so we won't have to pay for those classes in college. Is that a bad reason to take so many AP's?? I have read your response to her and have been trying to explain to her that these courses will be HARD and require lots of study, but she doesn't "get" that yet. Tests have always been easy for her, even without studying. The APs she picked were the ones she either thought would be easy or that she is interested in learning more on the subject. I'm thinking after we do these 9th grade courses/exams she might change her tune a bit after seeing how much work it is, and then we can drop some of the later APs. I was just thinking the other day about how she needs to do more extracurriculars (like in the community, internship, etc), but I honestly don't know how to offer her those things as a homeschooler. Any suggestions on how to go about doing those things? I think I addressed everything. I am so lost with all of this stuff!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian (a lady) Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 I agree with much of what Lori mentioned. One one side of planning you have the potential to make it look like a student is coasting. On the other end, it's possible to put so much on a transcript that it looks like each course had to have been watered down. On the APs, I would start calling local schools now and plan where she will take the AP exams, at least for next year. Not all schools offer all exams. Some will only offer exams in courses they are offering. The process for giving non-enrolled students (could be homeschooled, private schooled or even students from another public school or district) vary from area to area. In my district, you have to sign up and pay in February for exams scheduled in May. (Which means that you have to commit in Jan/Feb to taking the test or not.) Some people on the board have had a really hard time finding testing locations and have had to travel 1-2 hours to a school that would give them a slot. Best to start prepping that ground now. You can print out the free-response portion of old exams on the College Board website. That will give your dd an idea of the level of detail she's aiming for. There are practice books for many of the tests that will include sample multiple choice questions. Also, be aware that to label a course as AP on a transcript, you must have gone through the College Board course audit for the syllabus for that course. There are some on the board who have done this, so it is possible for homeschoolers to go through the process. But AP is a trademark of College Board and they restrict the right to label courses AP to only those with approval. What some people have done is labeled their course as Environmental Science with AP exam and then included the AP test score on the transcript. This lets them show the challenge level of the course without going through the course audit. One thing that does strike me about your plan is that there are only two years of foreign language. You might consider adding a third if possible. Some colleges are moving toward preferring three rather than two. Even if she's not aiming for a tip-top school, the competition for flagship state schools can be fierce. I don't think that you necessarily need to add anything to British Literature. Many high school English courses are primarily driven by literature or essay reading and composition (essay writing). They tend to move away from teaching mechanics after 9th grade (I wouldn't expect grammar, spelling or punctuation to be a large focus in most high school classes) with the presumption that these are mastered skills that are now being put into use (the question of if they really are mastered is a different topic altogether). If your dd has a bent toward law school, you might want to consider the AP English Language and Composition course, rather than AP Biology. The English course may be more in line with what her goals are and AP Biology may simply be a harder course to pull off. Before committing to AP World History, you might want to look through the course description and read through a recent test prep book. I was planning on doing this course content over a couple years and finally decided that the emphasis of the course was to different from what I wanted to dwell on with our limited high school time. It is also a very large corpus of information to cover in a year. You might want to compare AP American Government and AP Economics with how the course is presented by local schools (since they will be a significant source of competition for college admissions). American Government is often done as a one semester course (though I've also seen a school doing a very in depth one year course). If local students are doing American and Comparative in the same year, it might look light to only do American. YMMV. I live in the land of super-charged over-achievers who are counting coup on every course they can collect with a high body count of burned our students along the way. On one hand, it challenges me to do more. On the other hand, it makes me want to run the other direction. But it is worth keeping an eye on the competition pool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckymama Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 You might want to compare AP American Government and AP Economics with how the course is presented by local schools (since they will be a significant source of competition for college admissions). American Government is often done as a one semester course (though I've also seen a school doing a very in depth one year course). If local students are doing American and Comparative in the same year, it might look light to only do American. YMMV. I live in the land of super-charged over-achievers who are counting coup on every course they can collect with a high body count of burned our students along the way. On one hand, it challenges me to do more. On the other hand, it makes me want to run the other direction. But it is worth keeping an eye on the competition pool. The very strong high school students here take AP Government as a full-year course, full of primary source readings, papers, discussions and debates. Other students take US Government as a one-semester, half-credit course. There really is no comparison between the two courses. AP Economics is generally done as a full-year course covering Macro one semester and Micro the second. Not very many schools offer AP Economics here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Another thought on languages-take a look at your local U's language requirements. One of the schools on my dd's dream list has a language requirement for undergrads. That requirement is met if you have taken 4 years in high school. I'm not saying every freshman needs 4 years of language, just look at the U's gen ed requirements and see if you can meet any though your course selection such as the above mentioned language example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane in NC Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 To the OP: You have received some excellent advice in this thread. Several posts up, you wrote: First of all, yes, DD finished 8th grade super early and we started right into 9th grade in January. So she got a head start and has just finished psychology, physiology and health (one course), and writing. Now I'm trying to piece together her government and and human geography course so she can get started on those, as well as the business law (her interest). Once she gets started on those she'll start the science and math. She likes to stagger them rather than jump right in to all of them at once. AP Exams are offered in May, so I presume she will take the AP US Government and AP Human Geography exams in May of 2014. Are you also planning on having her take those 10th grade APs in 2014? The scheduling is confusing to me with an academic year that begins in January. None of the schools in my area offer AP Human Geography. While phoning high schools is necessary, you might want to start with the AP Audit ledger to see if any of the schools near you are offering it this year. I like Jumped's idea of more language. My niece who is an attorney was hired in a summer internship while a law school student in part because of her ability to speak Spanish. A number of undergrad programs are now requiring four semesters of college level foreign language which translates to four years of high school language. It might be worthwhile to look at a couple of colleges to investigate requirements both of applicants and for their degree programs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhschool Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 For extracurriculars, you could be a member of a Homeschool Honor Society. They mostly do service projects to help the community or tutor other students. Your child may want to help lead. That always looks good on a college application, plus it's a great opportunity to be with other kids who work hard (which is not always popular), and you get to do service, which helps the less fortunate--a worthwhile endeavor in any case. Another extracurricular you could do is a physical activity--dance, martial arts, etc. What about a club? There are many homeschool clubs--or you could start one. It could be academic, art-oriented, performance, foreign language--anything. Those can be a lot of fun! And...they also would look good on a college application I imagine. Sometimes I feel shallow always finishing everything with "and it looks good on a college application," but I am trying to realize that you should do things you really enjoy *and* remember to put it on the college application. I had lots of extracurriculars and interests and I didn't list anything for my college. I did get into a good college, but I should really have worked on my application more. Plus, I get the feeling things are a lot more competitive now. When I read the descriptions of the local public school top scholar seniors (they print them in the local newspaper), I am blown away by how accomplished they all are. Somehow they all are: -great at sports and captain or something extra good -great at music and are all in the top level orchestra -great at school and are in Honor Society with high GPA -part of a leadership/service type organization like Boy Scouts, Knights of Columbus, etc. and are president, vice president, or treasurer It's amazing to me, especially given all these kids go to school and spend the whole day there (when do they have time to study/do their music practice/go to meetings/do service?) Anyway, sorry to deviate--my original post was to suggest some extracurriculars. Yes, there are many clubs (and if you don't have any around they are easy to start). And there are many fun activities for homeschoolers to do, with or without others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian (a lady) Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 The very strong high school students here take AP Government as a full-year course, full of primary source readings, papers, discussions and debates. Other students take US Government as a one-semester, half-credit course. There really is no comparison between the two courses. AP Economics is generally done as a full-year course covering Macro one semester and Micro the second. Not very many schools offer AP Economics here. That's exactly the sort of local variation I'm thinking of. Here I have two high schools in close proximity. At one the AP Government students take American Government one semester (first generally) and Comparative Government the other; AP Economics is not offered. At the other students pick between AP American Government as a one year course and AP American and Comparative as paired one semester courses; either option earns one credit in state and US Government. This second school seems to offer both AP Economics courses as paired semester classes for one credit. And both of the schools there are also non-AP government and personal finance/economics courses offered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori D. Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 First of all, yes, DD finished 8th grade super early and we started right into 9th grade in January. So she got a head start and has just finished psychology, physiology and health (one course), and writing. Now I'm trying to piece together her government and and human geography course so she can get started on those, as well as the business law (her interest). Once she gets started on those she'll start the science and math. She likes to stagger them rather than jump right in to all of them at once. Whew! I was sweating for your student on the idea of *starting* high school with 8 heavy credits and 2 of them being APs! All I could picture was a massive melt-down and a total burn-out on school just part way through 9th grade... :D DD is actually not interested (so she says) in a STEM field at all. She actually wants to go to law school. BUT she changes her mind every year and is very good in math (and loves science) so I'm trying to keep all her options open so when she graduates she'll be able to do whatever it is she's decided on. Does that make sense? Gotcha. :) I would say then, that the key here is to remain flexible -- hold lightly to your 4-year plan and be ready to flex and change as your student changes over the next 4 years. Sounds like she's a powerhouse academically, so whatever she ends up wanting to do, she'll have a solid transcript. She will be going to our local university for her first four years b/c that's all we'll be able to afford. Now way can I afford the top tier tutions and we both feel strongly about not acquiring too many student loans. The local U as of right now accepts all the AP courses and gives 3-6 credit hours for each. Okay, here's another option to consider, but it does mean you would be committing to this plan early of attending the local university, as top tier schools do not accept transfer credits or CLEPS. Rather than DD doing SO many APs, what about doing some dual enrollment at the community college (CC), esp. for things like the foreign language? Why I suggest this is that if you have a good CC, the credits will likely transfer to a number of universities (not just your local one), CCs are usually cheaper than universities, and some states offer a FREE dual enrollment option for high school students. Some universities have transfer agreements with the CC so if the student takes certain credits at the CC, transfers, and only need to take 2 years at the university. And, some high school students take enough dual enrollment courses so that they graduate high school AND have a 2-year degree, or are very close to finishing one... This is a tough question to wrangle through -- which is better: AP or dual enrollment. Honestly, it probably depends on where your DD wants to go... Whatever you decide, you DO want DD doing at least 4 APs if you want to also keep the door open for the possibility of a top tier school. Many offer money to families making under $100,000, so don't assume Harvard is NOT a possibility! And state universities usually have the LEAST amount of money to give for scholarships, and when you compare financial aid packages, quite often the private colleges are comparable to the state universities. I know that's a scary can of worms to open for you right now, but it's worth reading a few past threads on these questions so you can best figure out how to keep your options as open as possible... I was just thinking the other day about how she needs to do more extracurriculars (like in the community, internship, etc), but I honestly don't know how to offer her those things as a homeschooler. Any suggestions on how to go about doing those things? I can't see what area you are in, so you'll have to do some google searching for your area, but: Since she's interested in Law, then definitely get her into a debate (forensics) team: - local high school club or team (homeschoolers are often able to join public/private high school after school extracurriculars) - National Forensic League (secular; all high school students) - National Christian Forensics and Communication Association (Christian; homeschoolers) - Stoa Speech and Debate (Christian; homeschoolers) - Christian Communicators of America (Christian; homeschoolers) I also highly recommend these nationally recognized extracurriculars that fit with her interests and look very good for applying to colleges and for scholarships: - Mock Trial (info on it; do a search for "(your state) Mock Trial" first, then try National High School Mock Trial) - YMCA's Youth and Government (info about it, and, find a delegation near you - Model United Nations (check with your local University first as your state will often have a Model UN held at the local university, but then: American Model United Nations, and, National High School Model United Nations - Junior State of America (weekend conferences where students get to discuss "hot" political topics) Other extracurricular activity ideas - participate on local high school varsity sports team (many high schools allow homeschoolers; if DD isn't doing a sport, try tennis or golf, as far fewer girls go out for those sports) - volunteer at a local political party office or a politician's office - volunteer at a local law office - write for a teen newspaper, or apply to be the teen columnist for local newspaper - after school robotics, electronics, computer, or science club - develop a personal interest through a club, or as an entrepreneurial job ( (music, sewing, jewelry-making, electronics, robotics) What personal interests does DD have? Join a club or start a group . What about other homeschoolers and homeschool groups in the area? Ours has a big group of middle/high schoolers so we had a student council which planned/executed the activities for the year, did community service, and then also organized other activities of interest such as getting together informally for ballroom dance or Ultimate Frisbee... Yikes, I'm sorry, I'm just overwhelming you here when all you asked was a simple question about your plan of credits for high school! ;) Really, you have time to research and plan. Truly wishing you the VERY best as you do so! Warmest regards, Lori D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Changed Posted May 1, 2013 Author Share Posted May 1, 2013 I agree with much of what Lori mentioned. One one side of planning you have the potential to make it look like a student is coasting. On the other end, it's possible to put so much on a transcript that it looks like each course had to have been watered down. On the APs, I would start calling local schools now and plan where she will take the AP exams, at least for next year. Not all schools offer all exams. Some will only offer exams in courses they are offering. The process for giving non-enrolled students (could be homeschooled, private schooled or even students from another public school or district) vary from area to area. In my district, you have to sign up and pay in February for exams scheduled in May. (Which means that you have to commit in Jan/Feb to taking the test or not.) Some people on the board have had a really hard time finding testing locations and have had to travel 1-2 hours to a school that would give them a slot. Best to start prepping that ground now. I called our local high school last week and the woman said as long as I call her in Jan and let her know which tests dd will be taking she can order any of them. She ran through the list and mentioned every one dd would possibly be taking. So it sounds like that is uncommon and very good news for us! You can print out the free-response portion of old exams on the College Board website. That will give your dd an idea of the level of detail she's aiming for. There are practice books for many of the tests that will include sample multiple choice questions. Also, be aware that to label a course as AP on a transcript, you must have gone through the College Board course audit for the syllabus for that course. There are some on the board who have done this, so it is possible for homeschoolers to go through the process. But AP is a trademark of College Board and they restrict the right to label courses AP to only those with approval. What some people have done is labeled their course as Environmental Science with AP exam and then included the AP test score on the transcript. This lets them show the challenge level of the course without going through the course audit. Thank you for this advice. I don't plan on getting our courses audited, so we will just right it as "course" with AP exam. One thing that does strike me about your plan is that there are only two years of foreign language. You might consider adding a third if possible. Some colleges are moving toward preferring three rather than two. Even if she's not aiming for a tip-top school, the competition for flagship state schools can be fierce. She really doesn't want to do a foreign language at all, and I really can't see the point when it doesn't seem like she'd be using it AT ALL. And I agree with dh that if you don't "use it, you lose it". I just can't see dd getting fluent in the language through studying at home, and she is completely against using an online "live" class. We could consider DE... I don't think that you necessarily need to add anything to British Literature. Many high school English courses are primarily driven by literature or essay reading and composition (essay writing). They tend to move away from teaching mechanics after 9th grade (I wouldn't expect grammar, spelling or punctuation to be a large focus in most high school classes) with the presumption that these are mastered skills that are now being put into use (the question of if they really are mastered is a different topic altogether). If your dd has a bent toward law school, you might want to consider the AP English Language and Composition course, rather than AP Biology. The English course may be more in line with what her goals are and AP Biology may simply be a harder course to pull off. I actually tried to convince her of this, and right now she is really "listening" to what I have to say (so surprising!), but the more I look at that exam the more I dont think she'd do well on it. English and writing really aren't her thing. :( Maybe that's my fault. Before committing to AP World History, you might want to look through the course description and read through a recent test prep book. I was planning on doing this course content over a couple years and finally decided that the emphasis of the course was to different from what I wanted to dwell on with our limited high school time. It is also a very large corpus of information to cover in a year. I was wondering about this. I think I've finally convinced her that she doesn't need so many APs and we will probably drop this one. You might want to compare AP American Government and AP Economics with how the course is presented by local schools (since they will be a significant source of competition for college admissions). American Government is often done as a one semester course (though I've also seen a school doing a very in depth one year course). If local students are doing American and Comparative in the same year, it might look light to only do American. YMMV. I live in the land of super-charged over-achievers who are counting coup on every course they can collect with a high body count of burned our students along the way. On one hand, it challenges me to do more. On the other hand, it makes me want to run the other direction. But it is worth keeping an eye on the competition pool. Another thought on languages-take a look at your local U's language requirements. One of the schools on my dd's dream list has a language requirement for undergrads. That requirement is met if you have taken 4 years in high school. I'm not saying every freshman needs 4 years of language, just look at the U's gen ed requirements and see if you can meet any though your course selection such as the above mentioned language example. I will definitely look into this. To the OP: You have received some excellent advice in this thread. Several posts up, you wrote: AP Exams are offered in May, so I presume she will take the AP US Government and AP Human Geography exams in May of 2014. Are you also planning on having her take those 10th grade APs in 2014? The scheduling is confusing to me with an academic year that begins in January. Her official 9th grade year starts in August 2013, so she will take govt and geog APs in May of 2014. Then 10th grade APs will be 2015. She just got a head start on her 9th grade work. None of the schools in my area offer AP Human Geography. While phoning high schools is necessary, you might want to start with the AP Audit ledger to see if any of the schools near you are offering it this year. The woman at our local high school states she can order all APs, so assuming she's correct then we are good to go. I like Jumped's idea of more language. My niece who is an attorney was hired in a summer internship while a law school student in part because of her ability to speak Spanish. A number of undergrad programs are now requiring four semesters of college level foreign language which translates to four years of high school language. It might be worthwhile to look at a couple of colleges to investigate requirements both of applicants and for their degree programs. I guess DE would be a good idea so she can knock out some of the college level requirements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Changed Posted May 1, 2013 Author Share Posted May 1, 2013 jhschool--thanks for all the ideas! The problem is she doesn't seem to be interested in anything. She started playing the clarinet in a homeschool band and was doing great, but wanted to quit. :confused1: Lori D.--Regarding DE...dd was very excited for awhile about the thought of taking enough DE classes to graduate high school with an Assoc degree. I'm not sure why she put that thought aside. I guess b/c she's a homebody and doesn't want to "go to" college classes when she could do the work here at home. I also need to look into it and see how much it costs. We're in the Louisville area if anyone has any idea?? I will run all the extracurricular ideas by dd. That's a huge list. Maybe something will spark her interest... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian (a lady) Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 Why do you think she wouldn't use the language? Especially something like Spanish. My experience has been the opposite. Opportunities presented themselves because I had some language skills. In fact I first met dh when we were both using our beginner Russian skills to translate between friend and Soviet sailors. If she is thinking about law I might present the English classes (any English class but AP English language and Composition in particular) as a way of honing skills of reading proficiently and presenting compelling arguments. The same level of detail used for arranging evidence in a case can be used to prove Jane Eyre's Mr Rochester was a no good creep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErinE Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 I don't have a high schooler right now, but I have a niece going through this process. Beyond the four year academic plan, what does your dd want to do? It's not a question she must answer now, but it would be good to have a general idea before deciding on a major, let alone attending college classes. She should consider reaching out to people in various professions. If English and writing aren't her "thing," she should reconsider law school. A lawyer's life is almost nothing like it's portrayed in the media. Most lawyers I've dealt with spend the overwhelming majority of their time reading, summarizing, and writing. Friends have graduated from law school and realized they hated the reality of law. It's an expensive lesson to learn. For my niece, I urged her to talk to people in different careers. She's interested in psychiatry. We've talked about what jobs are available, the minimum education requirements, potential costs of the full education, and job opportunities after graduation. After considering the education commitment, my niece is looking at other options, although she's not ruled out psychiatry completely. Since your dd has four years, she should start talking to adult friends and neighbors now. It's a good conversation starter; people love to talk about themselves! If she can, job shadowing or working in a field of interest can help narrow her choices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 DD is actually not interested (so she says) in a STEM field at all. She actually wants to go to law school. BUT she changes her mind every year and is very good in math (and loves science) so I'm trying to keep all her options open so when she graduates she'll be able to do whatever it is she's decided on. Does that make sense? English and writing really aren't her thing. :( Maybe that's my fault. I just wanted to comment re: her current goal of law school. I am a lawyer who hated English and writing in high school. My high school education in that area was not good (all of it, including my AP English class). To make a long story short, I learned writing on the job, thanks to a mentor. The job certainly is full of reading and writing. My advice would be to focus on extensive reading (for vocabulary and general facility with language), writing (organization especially), and rock-solid grammar. The goal would be absolute precision in communication. My (IMO, more important) advice would be to focus on logical thinking via a proof-heavy math course(s). That's where I'd put her strength in math to good use. Depending on what math program you are using for the rest of the sequence, please, please use a proof-heavy geometry!! This logical thinking is what underlied all of my writing as a lawyer. Eta, writing is so much easier when one has something specific to say! Regarding majors prior to law school, my advice is to choose something that might be a potential career angle regardless of the law. STEM fields are great. Just say no to English and Poli Sci unless they are true loves for your student. Eta, a major that may lead to a career on its own is not only useful in the event that the law doesn't work out, but may also lead to a niche within the law and the employment doors that may open accordingly. As for my own experience, I majored in economics, which would have been really useful if I had specialized in antitrust law (one of my regrets). I sort of wish I had majored in math... Ultimately, the aspect of the job that I loved the most was writing briefs, especially appellate briefs :001_tt1: :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori D. Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 Why do you think she wouldn't use the language? Especially something like Spanish. My experience has been the opposite. Opportunities presented themselves because I had some language skills. And adding to Sebastian's good point... Our younger DS has mild LDs esp. in spelling and writing; he struggled with his native English language in those areas -- no way I thought he was going to make it with the foreign language requirement. So, we went with ASL (American Sign Language) to avoid the writing, and reduce much of the spelling. He did 2 semesters as dual enrollment to count for his 2 years of high school foreign language. And along the way, he discovered a real interest and skill in ASL, and is now at the Community College working towards a degree as Interpreter for the Deaf! Ironic moral of the story: our DS discovered his career path by taking a foreign language (his weak area/non-interest area). You just never know! ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian (a lady) Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 And adding to Sebastian's good point... Our younger DS has mild LDs esp. in spelling and writing; he struggled with his native English language in those areas -- no way I thought he was going to make it with the foreign language requirement. So, we went with ASL (American Sign Language) to avoid the writing, and reduce much of the spelling. He did 2 semesters as dual enrollment to count for his 2 years of high school foreign language. And along the way, he discovered a real interest and skill in ASL, and is now at the Community College working towards a degree as Interpreter for the Deaf! Ironic moral of the story: our DS discovered his career path by taking a foreign language (his weak area/non-interest area). You just never know! ;) When I announced I was going to take German in high school my grandmother asked why I didn't take a more "useful" language. (This dispite being married to the son of two German immigrants?) I was a summer exchange student in Germany in high school. I took two language immersion trips to Germany in college. My dh credits his getting a job in Germany with my ability to speak German. Of course language ability comes and goes rapidly. I've lost much of the fluency I had when we lived in Germany. On the other hand, I was able to become proficient on a day to day level (shopping, small talk, border crossings, police reports for a stolen wallet :glare: ) after about a year of living there. I'm pretty confident that in an immersion situation I could regain what I had back then pretty quickly. With the Russian I took in college, I was able to play campus tour guide to a midshipman from a Soviet sail training ship and players from the Moscow Dynamo hockey team (in town to play the Capitals in exhibition). Plus I met dh when we were both attending a party for Sovet sailors from a couple visiting ships. Languages open doors that you didn't even know were there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori D. Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 Regarding DE...dd was very excited for awhile about the thought of taking enough DE classes to graduate high school with an Assoc degree. I'm not sure why she put that thought aside. I guess b/c she's a homebody and doesn't want to "go to" college classes when she could do the work here at home. I also need to look into it and see how much it costs. We're in the Louisville area if anyone has any idea?? You might pm Barbara H on these boards, who does a lot of homeschool high school advising, and is not too far out of your area (see her post #4 in this past thread). Here are two campuses that offer dual enrollment in Louisville that came up in a Google search (but I'm sure you have more institutions nearby, and you can read what the policies are for each by checking out their websites): University of Louisville Boyce College (a school of Souther Baptist Theological Seminary) Some things to keep in mind as you consider dual enrollment: - your young teen student will be taking classes with 20yo and older adults - some classes will likely have content you may not feel is appropriate for a young teen (usually the Humanities (topics of sexual preference, lifestyles, etc.) and some English/Writing classes (graphic literature; feminist and/or Freudian interpretations of literature; etc.)) - not all CCs have a good rep., so check carefully as to what - not all credits will transfer to all 4-year universities - many universities have a limit as to how many credits a student can take and still be considered a freshman (on average, it's about 23-24, but some are as low as 12 credits, while others are unlimited, which allows a high school student to take the 60-65 credits to earn an Associate's Degree, transfer the credits, and come in as a freshman and qualify for freshman scholarships, which are more numerous than transfer scholarships) Check out the various linked threads in the pinned thread at the top of the high school board to help you think through the various pros and cons of AP (most links in post #2), Dual Enrollment (most links in post #1), etc.: Outsourcing, Online Classes, Tutors, Dual Enrollment AP, SAT II tests, CLEP -- links to past threads here! I will run all the extracurricular ideas by dd. That's a huge list. Maybe something will spark her interest... And in case nothing on that list connects ;) ... General areas for extracurricular activity areas in this thread: What kinds of extracurricular activities for high schoolers? And loads more specific ideas for extracurriculars in this thread: What extracurricular activities for the high school years? Warmest regards, Lori D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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