Chrysalis Academy Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 Will you guys help me figure out whether to get LToW? Background: Ruth's post reviewing & comparing LToW here: http://forums.welltr...of-wws-to-ltow/ made me think that LTOW would be great for my dd. She will have completed 3/4 of WWS and 1/2 of Essay Voyage in 5th grade, and we would finish those two programs in the first half of 6th grade. So, we could either jump straight into WWS2, or we could do LTOW first (or do them somewhat concurrently) beginning halfway through 6th grade. Pros of LTOW: based on Ruth's review, I think it would really fit dd's learning style. She thrives on discussion-based teaching, and she really likes to see the big picture. Her arrangement skills are very strong, she could use some work on Invention (what she says is great, I would like her to start saying more about her topics) and Elocution (her writing is fine, but I'm ready to see her use more varied sentences, more "style"). She has done very well with WWS, although some of the reading selections have been kind of challenging, and some of the assigned topics haven't been all that engaging. I would like to do more writing across the curriculum using WWS skills, and will plan to do that more whichever route forward we take. Cons of LTOW: It's really expensive!! $160 for the whole package, compared to ~45 for WWS? Is it really this great? Also, from what I read, almost everyone finds the TM really hard to follow, and ends up rewriting/reteaching. So, it's very teacher intensive, which is ok, I don't mind that, it's just that for 160 bucks, I don't expect to have to rewrite the TM!! So help me out: what will I get from LToW that I wouldn't get from WWS that makes it worth the price? More on invention and elocution, more big picture, more discussion . . . . help me out here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewelma Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 I hate the price! No, it is NOT 4x better than WWS. sigh. However, if you are pretty handy, you can buy just the student manual and then use the free resources on their site. There are quite a few instructions and examples for teachers. I considered doing this, and would have if I did not have the extra money laying about. Ruth in NZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Togo Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 We used LToW I in 7th grade, and it is one of my top five homeschool picks. I have the latest edition and don't see any need to rewrite the TM, and unlike Ruth, I believe the TM is necessary. I have an older edition of the curriculum, and it was confusing, but the new materials are very good. LToW I teaches many writing skills, but the value of the curriculum goes beyond the teaching of concrete skills. I encourage you to listen to Andrew Kern's free podcasts from Circe Institute and buy a few of his conference lectures. I have been listening to them for months, and they are giving me a better understanding of LToW even though the lectures are not all related to writing. Not to discount reviews, but honestly, if a curriculum appeals to you, the only way to see if it is a good fit is to use it. Fwiw, I have been on this board for several years, and I often read reviews about curriculum I have used and my takeaway is very different than the poster. In addition, I have used curriculum that doesn't work for other families, but it has been perfect for my children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Togo Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 Rose, I sent you a pm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quark Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 Rose, I sent you a pm. I've been lurking. Have been wondering about LToW too. Thanks for the OP, Rose! 1Togo, may I trouble you to ask about the PM? Any extra information would be very useful to me. We've just stepped into using IEW and although my kiddo likes Pudewa's bantering manner, I don't have a 100% sure-about-this-curriculum feeling about IEW. Would love to know if LToW could be a better fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishMum Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 :lurk5: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluffybunny Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 Andrew Kern's free podcasts Does he have any free podcasts specifically about LToW? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Togo Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 The gist of my pm was this: For years, I have searched for curriculum that teaches skills as well as intangibles that Andrew Kern calls truth and beauty. Ethics, virtue, etc. also. Most curriculum is skill focused. Nothing wrong with that since skills are important, but I was looking for something what would help our discussions about literature and other subjects to be meaningful and natural. I was never satisfied with my attempts to lead discussions because they felt artificial, especially if we used a prescribed set of questions. With LToW I, each essay is focused on one issue; i.e. should Gandalf have chosen Bilbo, should Anne forgive Gilbert, etc. Examining those issues using the invention tools taught in LToW took us deep into the characters, the meaning of words, and more. The year we used it was memorable. However, as I wrote in my first post, I believe the only way to see if a curriculum will work for my family is to try it. Reviews might help pique my interest or even dissuade me (rarely), but I've always needed to get my hands on curriculum and have at it to really understand whether it will be important to us or not. Finally, Circe offers regular webinars on various components of LToW, but you need the curriculum for those webinars. Andrew's other lectures and podcasts teach and demonstrate the philosophy underlying the concrete tools of LToW. They are my inspiration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quark Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 Thank you 1Togo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendall Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 Can you list some of the specific lectures/podcasts you found helpful? Here is one - I am part way through listening to his lecture: Teaching Literature Without Killing The Book Or Student available free here: http://www.societyforclassicallearning.org/index.php/resources-guest/media-guest I recognize LToW in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Togo Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 You are What You Behold: Nourishing the Child’s Soul on the Truth Five Paths to Great Writing Analytical Learning A Contemplation of Nature Mimetic Teaching and the Cultivation of Virtue The Long Haul: Using Morning Time to Educate for a Lifetime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendall Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 Thank you! I have a few of those in my files that I haven't listened to yet. You posted just in time for a solo road trip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abrightmom Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 You are What You Behold: Nourishing the Child’s Soul on the Truth Five Paths to Great Writing Analytical Learning A Contemplation of Nature Mimetic Teaching and the Cultivation of Virtue The Long Haul: Using Morning Time to Educate for a Lifetime Thank-you for sharing these. Would anyone be willing to tell me where to find these? Are they on Circe's website? :coolgleamA: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Togo Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 They are on the Circe website. Some are free; others are not. Just my opinion, but the Circe lectures are worth every penny. As I wrote previously, they are inspirational, but as I listen again and again, I able to pull the practical from them as well. The lectures have certainly helped me have a better understanding of LToW I and a different view of education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanvan Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 I agree that the TM is necessary. There are examples included in the TM that I often wish were in the student book. I do think the TM is not well organized. I also think your success w/ LT is going to depend on your ability to read through the materials and get the big picture and then use each lesson in your own way. It's not a curriculum that will have an answer key and you will need to be comfortable facilitating discussion and taking your time to delve deeply. It isn't for a person who wants to follow a curriculum without thinking and just 'do the next thing'. That approach won't work imho. It really is a simple approach, if you think the way LToW teaches. If not, then it may be a big struggle for you. As 1Togo has stated, there really is no way to know if it's a good fit unless you try it. I wouldn't buy it and necessarily expect to start teaching it the next day. Give yourself plenty of time to read the materials, read posts and files on the yahoo group, and ask questions. Otoh, you may be one of those people who picks it up and just gets it immediately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyP Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 re: the lectures I have two problems accessing these. I do not know how to get the free ones on my mp3 player. They aren't a download like those from other sites. Can I do something different to get them on my mp3? The Circe store page is unavailable. I have been trying for a month or so because I would love some new treadmill listening, but I can't access it. I suppose I should try emailing them. Is there another way to access them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanvan Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 Here is a link to their audio library. They have developed a new site. Maybe you were looking at their old website? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyP Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 Here is a link to their audio library. They have developed a new site. Maybe you were looking at their old website? That works for me, but I can only listen on their site. Is there a way to download these so I can listen to them offline? When I try to go to the store to buy other lectures, I end up at this page. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanvan Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 That works for me, but I can only listen on their site. Is there a way to download these so I can listen to them offline? When I try to go to the store to buy other lectures, I end up at thispage. Hmm..maybe they are still working on the site? If no one here knows the answer I would call them, they have been very helpful whenever I call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluffybunny Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 re: the lectures I have two problems accessing these. I do not know how to get the free ones on my mp3 player. They aren't a download like those from other sites. Can I do something different to get them on my mp3? The Circe store page is unavailable. I have been trying for a month or so because I would love some new treadmill listening, but I can't access it. I suppose I should try emailing them. Is there another way to access them? They used to have all of their audios available on MP3, and now they've changed it :sad: I used to download them to my ipod and listen as I went for a run or walk, or during long drives. Who has time to sit at a computer for even half an hour when you could use that half hour to do 2 things at once: exercise and be inspired? I have already emailed them twice, begging for the videos to become available on MP3. They replied saying that they have changed it to vimeo because they are unsure at the moment about what to do with copyright etc. <sigh> Quite frankly, I'm sure there are still ways of copying Vimeo videos to MP3; I just don't have the time to go looking for and fiddling around with converters etc. :bored: So, I suggest that more homeschoolers email Circe and express your needs; that homeschoolers need the MP3 versions as we just do NOT have time to sit for too long! We need to double up on things like exercise and listening!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyP Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 So, I suggest that more homeschoolers email Circe and express your needs; that homeschoolers need the MP3 versions as we just do NOT have time to sit for too long! We need to double up on things like exercise and listening!! I will. Once I have enough free time to actually sit and listen to a lecture, I will no longer have a need to listen to them. LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Togo Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 I have no idea how to do this, but dd's friend downloaded all the free lectures to my iphone and put them in a podcast folder. Dd downloaded lectures that I paid for to my iphone as well and put them in audio albums. Find a tech savvy teen. They know how to do it. I listen to the lectures as a I drive, walk, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendall Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 They are working on their site. I asked about it late last week. So the links to the downloads are being worked on and they hope to have them up this week sometime. The society for classical learning lecture that I mentioned can be downloaded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluffybunny Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 they hope to have them up this week sometime That's great news! I'm having withdrawls. If they were afraid of 'someone' not associated with homeschooling/education stealing their talks, for whatever reason I can't imagine, they could always create a subscription. Even then it wouldn't be necessary, because there are ways to download even the most 'undownloadable' videos/audios on the internet, for those who have the time .... which ironically aren't the educators. I did try to listen to them with my phone, but the sound quality was so bad I could barely understand a word, plus jogging with the new wider Nseries Nokia in my pocket isn't much fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abrightmom Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 They are on the Circe website. Some are free; others are not. Just my opinion, but the Circe lectures are worth every penny. As I wrote previously, they are inspirational, but as I listen again and again, I able to pull the practical from them as well. The lectures have certainly helped me have a better understanding of LToW I and a different view of education. Thank-you. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrysalis Academy Posted April 8, 2013 Author Share Posted April 8, 2013 Just thought I'd come back to complete the circle . . . Thanks for everyone's input on LToW. I think it would probably be a good fit for us. But I also think I need to stop obsessing about writing curricula and figure out how how I want to teach dd. I finally got The Writer's Jungle, and I have several of the hs/rhetoric level books often recommended here, and I'm going to spend the summer reading writing books and thinking. This will likely include getting LToW and adding it to my thinking mix. But between finishing WWS 1 and Essay Voyage, I've got plenty of material to take me through next December. So I'm just going to breathe for awhile, and figure out the big picture, instead of thinking that buying another curriculum will solve everything for me. Thanks to all who commented! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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