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Found 15 results

  1. I have been immersing myself in all the posted topics regarding Language Arts for high school on the High School boards and have reviewed the WTM (not 4th edition because I don't own it) as well as my copy of Teaching the Trivium for guidelines about what to do as I plan my oldest DS's 4 yrs of high school. And yes, I've read Ruth's epic post . . . . My head is swimming. Please offer help if you can wade through my post! I'm most thankful for anyone to jump in here and give advice! I hate to be a "needy" mom on here, but I need some shoulders to lean on from those of you who have gone before me and have accumulated invaluable experience and perspective. Here's some background that might help you as you advise. As an elementary and middle school student, he has completed the following: IEW SWI-A plus some of the Theme-based books WWE1-4 WWS 1-2 Lively Art of Writing (LAW) IEW unit VIII of TWSS MCT: Island, Town, CE,1 ML1, WWW, 4practice, R&S Grade 8 Killgallon SCES & SCMS VCR A World of Poetry (CAP) Fallacy Detective Art of Argument Discovery of Deduction He is currently enrolled in a Humanities local tutorial class (going into his 3rd year) which teaches cohesively (as one would expect) wonderful literature, challenging presentations/ projects and writing assignments based on the Progym, and deep study of history. He is a strong student in this class and writes well, thinks well, and loves all of it. I just don't know that it is enough actual writing to call it an entire credit hour. Thus . . . my search for something to just fill out and ensure everything is in place. How to navigate the high school years' English/Lit/Speech credits without overloading him . . . . (we'll have 2 others after him . . . just fyi) On my bookshelf (and/or written in my accumulated notes) for the high school years are the following resources: Elements of Style On Writing Well On Speaking Well A Rulebook for Arguments + Wkbk Intermediate Logic (Nance) Hands on Essays New Oxford Guide to Writing The Elements of Rhetoric VCR level D & E Figures of Speech (Quinn) How to Read Lit Like a Prof They Say, I Say How to Read a Book Aristotle Rhetoric On my radar but I have no idea whether they are needed or just duplicates / redundancies of what I own are the following: LTOW (it seems he would be better suited to level 2 but you're supposed to start at level 1 :( ) IEW SICC C or Theme Based level C or SWI-C --> i get conflicting opinions about which would be best given our trail up to this point IEW WTTW MCT ML3 & WWW2 MP's CC <-- i think he could jump in at book 6 and continue through 8, even though I know you're supposed to go from ground up Rhetoric Alive 1 Writing Strands 7 plus Writing Exposition Write Foundation level 2 or 3 EIW level 10 What is my problem, then, you ask? Sequencing this and making it not too robust but just enough to fill out the need for High School level writing instruction/English credits in light of what he has done and what he will need to be able to do. We are just on the brink of 9th grade studies (we school on and off all year long). What order could I use for the books sitting on my self? WHat would be missing, or would I need nothing from the radar list? {Oh, and we really cannot do online classes because we're on satellite internet} I talked with the gal from LTOW (circe) and she recommended he go quickly through LTOW1 and then roll into LTOW2 but this seems so expensive. And I cannot tell really whether that is the right kind of writing instruction for him, or whether that is unnecessary. It seems that LTOW is a thinking program, not a writing skills program. I need something that is just bare bones practice in writing but can be flexible to fit in with the sometimes hefty loads of writing he does in his Humanities class. I need something that is nuts and bolts, ongoing, not overwhelming, exposes him to all the different types of essay writing he needs to be able to do. Also, in which order should I do the rhetoric books I currently own? Also, how do I assign credit hours for the Rhetoric studies. I am so confused because WTM talks about Rhetoric being the replacement for Logic . . . but the Rulebook for Arguments and the New Oxford Guide are more like nuts and bolts to writing out his arguments, whereas the Intermediate Logic curriculum is all about mastering the propositions. (Would I do Intermediate Logic prior to Rulebook for Arguments or concurrently?) Do I give an elective credit for Intermediate Logic? What do I call it? I know I call it "Speech" when we do a Rhetoric class for elective credit, right? I am drawn to the official-ness of the Progym model (as it is called out in LTOW, CC, CAP), but came to it late in my schooling with him, so he hasn't had official instruction in that. DD2 and DS3 are getting that with CAP's Wr&Rh. We have generally always been a mesh of WTM and Charlotte Mason . . . . I'm beginning to see the fruit of all of it in DS1. . . .but I want to finish strong during these last four years, bringing to completion what I began with such fervor at the beginning.
  2. Has anyone used Lost Tools of Writing 2? Is it worth the investment? We were very successful with LTW 1, but I don't know if I should invest in the 2nd level or just apply what we've learned across the curriculum.
  3. Hi all, I would appreciate it if you would share with me some of your experiences, both good and bad with the program - online or curriculum. We are considering the LToW during our High School years. I have heard that it's hard to teach from a number thread searches. However there are claims that the latest edition is easier. Can someone describe a bit more what a typical day looks like for you? How much work/prep time is required of you, the teacher? Can this be done somewhat independently? I'm just trying to gauge how difficult this would be for my wife while teaching our two younger dds who require more of her time. It's a real balancing act for her. That is why ease of use is important and student independence is also a consideration. As an alternative I've heard great things about the online courses. I'd enjoy hearing more about what a class is like such as Classical Rhetoric: Lost Tools of Writing, Level One. What is the interaction with the instructor and other classmates like, if any? What is the level of difficulty/challenge, including time demands? Which teachers have you had? Thanks,
  4. I've been searching the website for a loooong time and still can't find a TOC or recommended schedule. Does anybody know?
  5. I'm planning for logic stage which might as well start at 5th grade for us. We have 4 years to prepare well before I enroll DD in PS high school. This is most likely the plan for us unless I completely lose my fear of homeschooling high school or win the lottery and enroll her with Stanford Online. I wish we could take all the writing classes from WWS all the way to Rhetoric, but we only have 4 years. I don't know how well our local high school will prepare DD for college writing, so I'm hoping that we get in the necessary foundation during the logic years. I just preregistered for WWS1 even though we've done some parts of it already. I was planning to register for LToW but that seems insane. Or is it? Based on Ruth's 2013 thread here http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/455439-my-comparison-of-wws-to-ltow/, I could do this sequence: WWS1, LToW, WWS2. This was 2 years ago so WWS3 was not yet published. So I could do this: WWS1, LToW, WWS2, LToW2 Or this: WWS1, LToW, WWS2, WWS3 Or could I drop one of these later classes like LToW2 or WWS3 and add Rhetoric 1? Or is there any possiblity of combining two courses during one of these logic years? I could try to finish up WWS by August and change the sequence to WWS2, LToW, and then? But the student book is almost 500 pages and we're not even at the quarter mark, although after using CAP and TC, I could skip some topics. Any opinions would be great. I'm just thinking outloud and hoping to get some advice on some possible paths for DD.
  6. I didn't have any luck with this on the high school board, so maybe I'll have better luck on this board... I have a 9th grader who stared homeschooling this year. While in school, writing was not a priority, at all! Luckily, she's a decent writer and doesn't stress when I ask her to write something, however, she definetly needs instruction in writing. I have looked into LAoW and LToW and they both have gotten great reviews. I'm just wondering what exactly are the differences are in them? From what I'm understanding LToW is geared more towards persuasive essays, correct? What about LAoW, does it focus on a specific type?
  7. Would you advise teaching it yourself or taking an online class and WHY???? Thanks! :lurk5:
  8. Will you guys help me figure out whether to get LToW? Background: Ruth's post reviewing & comparing LToW here: http://forums.welltr...of-wws-to-ltow/ made me think that LTOW would be great for my dd. She will have completed 3/4 of WWS and 1/2 of Essay Voyage in 5th grade, and we would finish those two programs in the first half of 6th grade. So, we could either jump straight into WWS2, or we could do LTOW first (or do them somewhat concurrently) beginning halfway through 6th grade. Pros of LTOW: based on Ruth's review, I think it would really fit dd's learning style. She thrives on discussion-based teaching, and she really likes to see the big picture. Her arrangement skills are very strong, she could use some work on Invention (what she says is great, I would like her to start saying more about her topics) and Elocution (her writing is fine, but I'm ready to see her use more varied sentences, more "style"). She has done very well with WWS, although some of the reading selections have been kind of challenging, and some of the assigned topics haven't been all that engaging. I would like to do more writing across the curriculum using WWS skills, and will plan to do that more whichever route forward we take. Cons of LTOW: It's really expensive!! $160 for the whole package, compared to ~45 for WWS? Is it really this great? Also, from what I read, almost everyone finds the TM really hard to follow, and ends up rewriting/reteaching. So, it's very teacher intensive, which is ok, I don't mind that, it's just that for 160 bucks, I don't expect to have to rewrite the TM!! So help me out: what will I get from LToW that I wouldn't get from WWS that makes it worth the price? More on invention and elocution, more big picture, more discussion . . . . help me out here?
  9. My ds(10) is finishing MCT Paragraph Town and I am looking for the next thing. For those who have BTDT, would you recommend using Lost Tools of Writing first and then moving to Essay Voyage, or doing them in the reverse order? I have heard that they complement each other. Is this true? Thanks, Ruth in NZ
  10. ENTER IF YOU DARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am NOT responsible for any purchases that may be incurred upon reading this post. Here's a link for the Lost Tools of Writing 4th edition sample pages. This edition looks A LOT LOT LOT LOT more clear than the 3rd edition. My friend is upgrading to the 4th edition so I'll get to take a look at it in a few weeks once it starts shipping! http://www.losttoolsofwriting.com/pages/demo Capt Uhura
  11. I don't know how to write. I mean really write. I didn't learn HOW to do it in high school. I learned how to fill out index cards, arrange them and create a really uncomfortable, boring paper or facts and info. I don't know how to come up with an idea, gather the information around that idea and them put it all into an interesting, well-organized form. I love Lost Tools and think it's a great idea. However, since the day I opened the box from them I'm nearly completely lost and overwhelmed. The DVD's are the only thing in there that doesn't have my head spinning after 15 minutes trying to figure out what it all means. I love the steps of coming up with questions, turning them into issue, and ANI charts. I can even grasp the general idea of how to turn ANI charts into outlines. I don't see how to get past that. Not only that but when I pull out the student books and teacher book, I feel like I'm reading Greek. It has its own language and pattern that I just can not seem to grasp! I don't have to have something that I can pull out of the box and just read the prompts but I have got to see what it is they want me to do. I have these beautiful student books that have never been used. I guess what I'm saying is that due to the DVD's we've covered questions/issues and ANI charts to death. I haven't used the teacher book or student books to help with this. I WANT to use the curriculum but I can't seem to get past their special language of what things are. I don't understand the order of what to use when or even the time frames. I finally understood that the student book isn't used front to back a week ago. I've read the past threads on Lost Tools. They help a bit. I'm on the Lost Tools Yahoo Group but that hasn't helped at all. They all seem to know exactly what to do and what it all means. A wonderfully written message a couple weeks ago from the creator seemed to tell me (we look for what we expect to see, huh? :) ) that the books are meant to be confusing so that nobody uses the curriculum in a curriculum-in-a-box way. I know that isn't true but... I know they want teachers/parents to do it in the way that works for them but I'm just not getting it. I hate posting this because I just feel so dumb when I realize I can't seem to get comfortable with a simple writing curriculum that I really do love the theory of. I just feel like an idiot. Ugh! :) Would any successful user of the curriculum be willing to exchange some private messages with me to help? I'm actually at least a semi-intelligent person most of the time. I promise! Thank you for reading my plea for help. I feel like I'm drowning because we aren't covering writing at all and we are already behind. I DO believe this is the answer for us. I just have to figure out what I'm missing. Thank you!
  12. There was some discussion a ways back on how this potentially could be a good combo... I know at least one or two people have both programs in their hot little hands... has anyone had a chance to parse/review this? Please please please? I want to do what Sahamama suggested over in the Breadth/Depth thread and sit down with everything and some chamomile tea and figure out what to include and what to trim, but LToW is too expensive for me to buy and then find I don't really need! But then I've kept reading such wonderful things about it - does it overlap at all with MCT? Would it complement, be overkill/overwhelm?? And someone mentioned it having quite a lot of religious content - is it true, and of what kind? :bigear::bigear::bigear:
  13. For those of you who use/used Lost Tools of Writing have you taught it to only one student? Is it difficult to adapt since it appears to be written for teaching in the classroom or co-op setting? For example, in the Teacher's Guide on page 50 for the Introductory Lesson, it's suggested that you start the class with introductions where students name a favorite book, movie, etc., and one thing they dislike about writing. Now I know I can adapt this to my 7th grade son and only student by taking an even more active part in the conversation and obviously prompting him to come up with more than one problem in the process of writing. What I am concerned about is how much will he miss in benefits in being the solo student and as I work my way through the Teacher's Guide will I find that I need to do a considerable amount of adapting? Any tips you can offer in adapting LTW for the solitary student would be appreciated.
  14. I've been scouring the net for an online/video/scripted writing or rhetoric class, and wound up on the Lost Tools site - which has always been a huge mystery to me. I have never investigated further because I figured if I couldn't understand the site, how could I ever teach from their materials??? (And, why can't they have DVD's like IEW?) Today I was intrigued; just at the moment I was about to give up understanding the site once again, I read that LTOW is, in fact, a "rhetoric" course. I haven't run into any other program labelling themselves as such. So...these are the things I find mysterious. If you could shed some light, please do. Also feel free to share anything else you desire (tho' I got it - it teaches kids to think as well as to write, though I didn't really find *how* it does that ;)) First, I am concerned that Lost Tools is not "finished". I see they have just released Part II, but I am having a difficult time judging the content. In other words, I can't really tell what is actually covered. (I guess because the website spends so much time on the Invention, Arrangement and such - and I don't know how to translate that and compare it to what is covered in other programs.) Second, how long does it take to "complete" Lost Tools? It seems from their website that the first book can be pretty much covered in one year. But, is it a program like IEW, which can & should be re-done at a deeper level, or not? Is Lost Tools of Writing based on the Progymnasmata? If not, does it cover the same skills? Would a progym study be redundant to a Lost Tools student, or an enhancement? (Would you do the progym or Lost Tools first?) Thank you for your patience and your help!
  15. Has anyone used The Lost Tools of Writing program from the Circe Institute? I would be interested in hearing pros and cons about it. Thanks! Amanda
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