What to do.....Math Mammoth 6

[TracyP]

We will finish MM 5 in the next 2-3 months, and I'm not sure what to do next. I really want to use MM 7 when it comes out, but I'm afraid it will not be ready in time for us. She plans to have it available for fall of 2014... So what are others doing? I'm thinking we could:

 

1) use parts of MM 6, maybe supplementing with some LOF or Zaccaro to stretch it out, then use MM 7 when it comes out. Does anybody know what to skip if I go this route?

 

2) use MM 6 as is, crossing the MM 7 bridge when we get there.

 

3) go a completely different direction and move into pre-A. It seems like a lot of families have chosen this route, but I'm not sure why. Could anyone explain the benefits of going into pre-A right now?

[Chrysalis Academy]

Right now, my plan is a heavily-supplemented MM6 as PreAlgebra, and then Jacobs Algebra, and then perhaps a second go-round of Algebra with AoPS. Basically, that gives us 3 years to cover PreA/Algebra thoroughly (finished with Algebra 1 by end of 8th grade).

 

I've (tenatively) chosen this route for a few reasons. First, MM is working for us. It's serviceable, thorough, has all the steps of practice if you need them - but is easy to accelerate through if you don't need all the practice. Second, as much as I thought I wanted to use AoPS for PreA, now that I have the book, I think it would not be a great fit for dd at this point. Jacobs, on the other hand, is billed as a good math for youngsters, with a fair amount of PreA review in the early chapters. I have this book, too, and I think it would be a much better fit. I know I could do MM6 and then AoPS PreA and then Algebra, but I decided that if I'm going to do something twice, I want it to be Algebra, not PreAlgebra.

 

I like the way MM does ratios, but not geometry. I really like AoPS's Geometry chapters. So I will probably use them instead of MM. And we'll definitely dip into the AoPS book and Alcumus during the year, and I may be surprised, and we may use it more. But, I'm not attached to it - it will be a tool we will use if it fits dd, and not if it doesn't.

 

DD also loves LOF, so will be working through the two PreA books.

 

And of course, there are a bunch of other things I like, too! So I'll be pulling from them as appropriate.

 

What I've started doing for Math this year, and anticipate doing for MM6 as well, is planning out what we'll do, for each chapter right before we start it (because things are changing so fast - she's moving a lot faster through it than she used to) I use MM as a spine, then add in the other resources that I want to use that are related to that chapter. So I'm pretty much planning out our day-by-day activities, for that one chapter/topic. Shorter topics might take two weeks to cover, longer topics might take 4 or 5. (Doing LOF & Khan Academy once a week offers a nice spiral review, while we're focusing on a main topic).

 

 

So the resources I think we'll use next year for prealgebra are the following:

 

MM6 - spine

LOF PreAlgebra 1 w/ Biology & PreAlgebra 2 w/ Economics

AoPS PreA Ch. 10-12 for geometry (instead of MM chapter)

(Other AoPS/Alcumus sections/chapters may be done as appropriate)

Khan Academy - finish the arithmetic & PreAlgebra playlist (that may happen this summer)

Kiss My Math - for a fun & accessible big picture explanation of the topic

Zaccaro's Challenge Math - word problems

Hands-On Equations, Verbal problem book - Level 2 word problems

Math for Real Kids - word problems

 

It looks like a lot, but we aren't using all that stuff all the time - again, I go through chapter by chapter and choose the supplemental resources that deepen and expand the material in the chapter.

 

I don't know if this is the right/best approach, but it seems to be working well for us now. It has the virtue of adding a lot of depth, and a lot of variety, and a lot of review w/o boredom, and it approaches each concept from a bunch of different angles. It also ensures that she's really understanding the material, not just figuring out how to work one particular curriculum.

 

Anyway, there it is! MM6 for PreAlgebra spine, then 2 years of Algebra. Of course, MM7 may come out and screw up all my plans, but for now, I'm pretty happy with this plan! I think we're too far ahead of MM right now to be able to rely on that for PreA.

[MamaSprout]

I think a lot of families go straight into Pre-A because MM6 contains quite a bit of Pre-A right now (MM 7 will contain some current MM6 topics). I'm not sure if there is a list on the boards somewhere about what topics are missing from MM6 that would be in a true Pre-A course, but I think some families use a bridge like Key to Algebra topic workbooks or Hands-on Equations and head into regular Algebra. Others go into Pre-A after the current MM 5B. Just depends on the student, I think.

 

We are a little behind you, but we are also going to hit the MM/ BA gap and have to decide how to manage it.

 

Bean

[5Wizards]

My DD is doing MM6 currently. She is good at math, but she doesn't think so (because it's the one thing that she actually has to put effort into). Next year she will be doing Pre-algebra (Derek Owens) to solidify everything/build her confidence before moving forward into Algebra. This still keeps her on the course towards Calculus in high school, which is my goal for her. I think that some students could probably jump straight to Algebra from MM 6, but it's not the best course for my particular student.

[TracyP]

Rose, thank you for the detailed post! That is very helpful.

 

She is good at math, but she doesn't think so (because it's the one thing that she actually has to put effort into).

Haha! Yep, that is my dd too.

[claluck]

We are doing something similar. I think I have finally decided to do MM6 with Fred pre-algebra. My guy is the same as the PPs, good at math but doesn't think so because he has to work at it. My plan is to skip a few chapters I was looking at it the other day. I am not sure exactly how because I do not own the pre-algebra books yet, however I am hoping to skip or at least fast track through some of the more "review" chapters. I might see what I think after he has finished the fractions and decimals and percents fred books. Maybe between them and MM5 he will have a good enough understanding to take the end of chapter tests in those units and skip them. At any rate my hope is to really have him through pre algebra in 6th grade and start algebra in 7th grade. If we have to go slow with algebra at that point I am like the PP and would rather do 2 years algebra than 2 years Pre-A.

I am basing some of this on my own experience, I took Algebra 1 in 8th grade and algebra 2 in 9th grade, obviously that was a long time ago and I feel like our kids are much better prepared for alegbra in general than I ever was. I got A's in school in those subjects but I see my kids learning algebra concepts now that I never learned until I actually took algebra. I think programs like MM and Singapore math really set them up with a more algebraic thought mode towards math. Not to mention we have been running through all the Fred books and it really does teach alot of algebra early on.

At any rate that is my plan. I never even heard that MM was coming out with a 7... is it supposed to be more of a pre-algebra unit?

[Chrysalis Academy]

Yes, MM7 will explicitly be PreAlgebra. What is happening is that in aligning MM to the common core, she is moving two topics from MM5 to MM6, and then some topics from MM6 (that were actually preAlgebra) into MM7, which will be PreAlgebra.

 

But for those of us ahead of that curve, and/or happy with the pre-CC version, we're getting a big chunk of PreA in MM6, though not everything you'd want if you con't supplement it at all. On another recent thread, Wapiti suggested what she thought you would want to add to MM6 to turn it into a full PreA, let's see if I can find the thread . . .

 

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/457395-who-started-algebra-1-after-mm6/ Post #2.

[TracyP]

But for those of us ahead of that curve, and/or happy with the pre-CC version, we're getting a big chunk of PreA in MM6, though not everything you'd want if you con't supplement it at all.

 

YES! This is exactly where I am stuck right now. It also makes me really see the need for a MM 7, so this line is a bit clearer. (Jackie, if you're reading this I don't need an "I told you so") :D

 

It seems I either need to heavily supplement so this can be a pre-A year or stretch it out and hit pre-A the following year. The more I think about this, I think that stretching it out is the way to go for my dd. She is young and doesn't love math, so I'm in no hurry.

 

Thanks all!

[claluck]

So this makes it sound like if we are using the pre CC adjustments it would be rather overkill to do MM7, alot of review with other concepts thrown in. Since my 4th and 5th graders have done the non-CC they would be all sorts of messed up with that sequence (though it would work well for my kindergardeners who could do the new CC version)I really thought looking at the common core revisions she was doing it was more about mixing things into different grade levels rather than adding things in. At any rate I was happy with MM before the changes, but having a pre-alg program would be a perk.

 

I think given we are this far in the game and too much on the edge of the changes with my older 2 that I will just try out my fred pre-algebra theory and go for it. I might do something different with their younger siblings but for now we will just hope it's not a total bomb. I would think fred would cover the gaps mentioned by wapiti in the other thread. I will check it out though and be sure. Its good to see.

 

Christina

[SunnyDays]

Now you all know why I pretty much just follow Rose around, and just copy her plans! :D

[IrishMum]

One of my boys went straight to LOF pre-algebra from MM5. He had no problem with the math in LOF but found the Biology/Economic difficult. He also did Hands on Equations at the same time. He is now 11, grade 6 and starting AOPS pre-Algebra, as review. He is not ready for Algebra.

[Chrysalis Academy]

Now you all know why I pretty much just follow Rose around, and just copy her plans! :D

 

 

Well, we're quite a train then, because there are a couple of people here I am following around, too! ;)

[wapiti]

For those of you who won't have MM7 in time, a very straightforward prealgebra is Dolicani (I prefer the 1985/1988 editions; I haven't seen the '92). That is what I'd use if we weren't doing aops.

 

So this makes it sound like if we are using the pre CC adjustments it would be rather overkill to do MM7, alot of review with other concepts thrown in.

 

 

I would not quite say that MM7 would be "review" following pre-CC MM6. My understanding is that MM7 will contain *entire chunks* that are currently in MM6. Essentially, your student would already have done the *exact pages* in those chunks, and would simply skip those chunks in MM7.

[Haiku]

Can someone post a link to information about MM7?

 

Tara

[wapiti]

Tara, try Rose's post here and check out the links it contains for the draft scope and sequence of 6 and 7. Aside from the completely new topics in 7, it looks like 7 might start with some of the lessons from 6 on a topic and then take the topic deeper, as one might expect with a prealgebra. It's hard to tell how many lessons will be taken directly from 6 (possibly with revisions or improvements?) though it might be useful to compare the TOCs side by side, which I have not done.

[Haiku]

Thanks!

 

Tara

[claluck]

Well looking at the year 7 scope it looks like it will be a decent pre-algebra good to know for upcoming kiddos. I think looking at what other people posted it still appears that doing MM6 with LOF pre-algebra... and maybe pick up the dolciani book as a good gap filler will be what we will do with my oldest.

[bcnlvr]

We are finishing up MM6 this year (we also do some of the 7th/gold worksheets). After agonizing over a long list of math programs to get us to Foerster from MM6, we are going to do MUS Alg/Patty Paper Geo next year.

 

(I looked at either doing a rigorous prealg like tabletclass or alg-lite like MUS. DS11's arithmetic is solid, and he seems to grasp algebraic concepts easily. He has a couple of algebra games that he has already beaten. I thought about AOPS for prealg, but going MM6-aops-foerster seems a little disjointed in approach to me.) I digress......

[claluck]

We are finishing up MM6 this year (we also do some of the 7th/gold worksheets). After agonizing over a long list of math programs to get us to Foerster from MM6, we are going to do MUS Alg/Patty Paper Geo next year.

 

(I looked at either doing a rigorous prealg like tabletclass or alg-lite like MUS. DS11's arithmetic is solid, and he seems to grasp algebraic concepts easily. He has a couple of algebra games that he has already beaten. I thought about AOPS for prealg, but going MM6-aops-foerster seems a little disjointed in approach to me.) I digress......

 

 

I love MM but this is where I can see that having a math program that runs the course all the way through would be nice.

 

Christina

[bcnlvr]

We are finishing up MM6 this year (we also do some of the 7th/gold worksheets). After agonizing over a long list of math programs to get us to Foerster from MM6, we are going to do MUS Alg/Patty Paper Geo next year.

 

(I looked at either doing a rigorous prealg like tabletclass or alg-lite like MUS. DS11's arithmetic is solid, and he seems to grasp algebraic concepts easily. He has a couple of algebra games that he has already beaten. I thought about AOPS for prealg, but going MM6-aops-foerster seems a little disjointed in approach to me.) I digress......

 

 

But I just spent the last hour REALLY going through the samples on Aops prealgebra and I might be in love. Maybe I'm just too sold on doing Foerster and that's why I won't give Aops a chance. They are just so different. I think trying Aops will allow me to see DS's true colors.

 

(yes, I quoted myself....I can do that, right? lol)

[IrishMum]

There was no chance of MM 7 when we started using MM 4 years ago. We loved MM, but had to find something else for pre-algebra. There are so many wonderful curriculum that it's hard for me to stick to just a few, my poor boys;)

I have written a review of Life of Fred, on my blog, for anyone who is considering using it. It really is wonderful, and could fill the gap for you.

[trudence1]

 

But I just spent the last hour REALLY going through the samples on Aops prealgebra and I might be in love.

 

Where did you find the samples? For some reason I am having a hard time finding samples of their curric. I am also sleep deprived today, so that might be there true problem.

[wapiti]

Where did you find the samples? For some reason I am having a hard time finding samples of their curric. I am also sleep deprived today, so that might be there true problem.

 

 

On this page, click the "Excerpts" tab. Or, click below:

 

Click to view an excerpt:

 

» Table of Contents

» Excerpt 1

» Excerpt 2

» Excerpt 3

» Index

 

 

[SunnyDays]

I had DS go through the first sample for AoPS PA yesterday. He ate. It. Up. :)

 

So, I ordered it. Then I asked DS if he was willing to do math a couple days a week through the summer to get to PA sooner. He thought that was a good idea. This is *serious* stuff, friends.... ;)

 

So we're going through Mm6 at an accelerated pace, then diving into AoPS.

[boscopup]

It seems I either need to heavily supplement so this can be a pre-A year or stretch it out and hit pre-A the following year. The more I think about this, I think that stretching it out is the way to go for my dd. She is young and doesn't love math, so I'm in no hurry.

 

 

Given this info, I'd probably do MM6 as it is, then if MM7 isn't ready when you're ready for prealgebra, just pick a prealgebra course that will work for you. Maria Miller has a good list on her website with comments about each one:

 

http://www.mathmammo.../prealgebra.php

 

And if MM7 *is* ready, just skip the chunks that you already did in MM6. I imagine Maria might be willing to make up a plan for people doing old MM6 with new MM7, so they would know what to skip?

 

Prior to the CCS alignment stuff, the traditional route was to do MM6 followed by prealgebra. Yes, some of us here are skipping grade 6 math and going from 5 to prealgebra, but those are usually with accelerated kids who love math and don't need a lot of repetition and would be bored doing "prealgebra" topics for 3 years (grades 5-7). That's a specific set of students, not your typical students.

[TracyP]

Tara, try Rose's post here and check out the links it contains for the draft scope and sequence of 6 and 7. Aside from the completely new topics in 7, it looks like 7 might start with some of the lessons from 6 on a topic and then take the topic deeper, as one might expect with a prealgebra. It's hard to tell how many lessons will be taken directly from 6 (possibly with revisions or improvements?) though it might be useful to compare the TOCs side by side, which I have not done.

 

 

When I started this thread, I emailed Maria Miller to get her thoughts. She sent me the draft linked in the quoted post above, so I decided to go ahead and compare side by side. Here is my rough estimate of how the new MM will line up to the old:

 

 

New Chapter corresponds to:

Ch. 1 Review Ch. 1 (as is)

Ch. 2 Expressions and Equations Ch. 2 p. 35-56 (covers some of new Ch. 4)

Ch. 3 Decimals Ch. 3 (as is)

Ch. 4 Ratios and Percent Ch. 6 p. 9-26 (ratios covered in Ch. 2)

Ch. 5 Number Theory Ch. 4 (as is)

Ch. 6 Fractions Ch. 5 (as is)

Ch. 7 Integers Ch. 8 p. 122-137 *prefer as is – will do all*

Ch. 8 Geometry Ch. 7 (as is)

Ch. 9 Statistics Ch. 9 p. 182-191

 

(ETA: sorry for the sloppy formatting, it looks perfect until I post)

 

I am *planning* to follow this schedule with MM and supplement with a few other TBD things. Hopefully MM 7 will be out by fall of 2014 as planned, and we will be able to use it before moving on to something else for Algebra.

 

One more question for the LOF users. Would it be worthwhile to go through Fractions and D&P after completing MM 5?

[Chrysalis Academy]

One more question for the LOF users. Would it be worthwhile to go through Fractions and D&P after completing MM 5?

 

I think so. Fractions is the big focus of MM5, and Decimals are covered pretty extensively too. (Percents is one of the topics that will move from MM5 to MM6 in the new version, if I remember correctly. We're doing it in MM5.) Doing the LOF books gives a nice (spiral) review of the concepts learned in MM5, and the whole real-world application thing that LOF does so well. It's been a nice reinforcement for dd. If I were doing it over again, I might wait to start LOF Fractions until you are starting the MM Fractions chapter, and do them concurrently, or just wait till you are done with the MM chapter. We did LOF Fractions ch. 1-29 before getting to the MM fractions chapter, and it got overwhelming there at the end, so we just shelved it till we had gone through MM Fractions, then finished it easily. Though LOF wasn't enough to learn fractions on its own, she clearly got a lot out of it - we were able to go really quickly through the MM chapters. So they were actually quite complementary. She's finishing up LOF Decimals alongside the last two chapters of MM5 now.

 

ETA: so yes, it is worth it to do it after MM5 for review/practice/reinforcement, or you can do them concurrently, depending on how you organize your math time. I think a "LOF summer" after MM5 would be great! But then, I'm a geek.

[TracyP]

Perfect! Thanks, Rose.

 

We are just starting the second fractions chapter, so I think I will order LOF for summer math. It sounds like it will make a good review, and if she likes it we'll continue on in the series.

 

FWIW, you are right about the percents chapter moving to MM 6 (and the integer chapter) but we're going to go ahead and do them since we will be following the old 6 for the most part.

[claluck]

We are doing the LOF fractions and decimals and percents this summer. We are exactly where you are Tracey P. We have one more week in the first fraction chapter. I am not sure if at the pace we are going we will finish by the end of the school year. But some chapters seem like they will go quickly (integers???). LOF fractions and decimals and percents seems perfect for the summer. Just enough math to keep them on track through the summer without feeling like too much. Plus my guy loves fred so seems like it will work. Then we are doing MM6 (old one) next year in combo with LOF pre-algebra units. I will officially see where we are then I am hoping to have him ready for algebra but I wont push him if he isnt ready.

 

Christina

[bcnlvr]

I use these boards A LOT to search for information about different math progressions. To that end, for other searchers, I want to post what we have finally decided to do.

 

DS11 just took the DOMA Algebra Readiness Exam (bought from HSBC) and scored "mastery" in all areas. This is after MM6. I am not going to take another year of PreAlg because 1, he doesn't want to, and 2, he is ready and excited for algebra. I figure I can take my time doing it. We have decided to do Foerster Alg I and Patty Paper Geometry for Fall 2013.

 

HTH anyone stuck in that "what do I do" agony zone after MM6.

 

bcn

[TarynB]

I use these boards A LOT to search for information about different math progressions. To that end, for other searchers, I want to post what we have finally decided to do.

 

DS11 just took the DOMA Algebra Readiness Exam (bought from HSBC) and scored "mastery" in all areas. This is after MM6. I am not going to take another year of PreAlg because 1, he doesn't want to, and 2, he is ready and excited for algebra. I figure I can take my time doing it. We have decided to do Foerster Alg I and Patty Paper Geometry for Fall 2013.

 

HTH anyone stuck in that "what do I do" agony zone after MM6.

 

bcn

 

 

That's awesome! Glad to hear this great news! We're MM users as well, so this is very encouraging to me. Thank you for sharing!

[crazyforlatin]

I use these boards A LOT to search for information about different math progressions. To that end, for other searchers, I want to post what we have finally decided to do.

 

DS11 just took the DOMA Algebra Readiness Exam (bought from HSBC) and scored "mastery" in all areas. This is after MM6. I am not going to take another year of PreAlg because 1, he doesn't want to, and 2, he is ready and excited for algebra. I figure I can take my time doing it. We have decided to do Foerster Alg I and Patty Paper Geometry for Fall 2013.

 

HTH anyone stuck in that "what do I do" agony zone after MM6.

 

bcn

 

 

MM (and to a certain extent SM) has been our math foundation from which we can safely venture out to explore subtopics in a more challenging way. Since I don't need to do any formal testing, it's always good to get feedback from others about the long-term results of using MM. I know how great MM is but that's just from observing one kid informally.

 

For a kid that loves geometry but has a mama that is worried about handing over a compass to a girl that runs around the house, Patty Paper has been exactly what I need to teach it in a discovery way.

[Mom-ninja.]

We're starting MM6 next month. I don't know if we will do MM7 (I think it would be out sometimes in 2014, right?)

 

It took a lot longer to get through MM5 than I expected. So I don't know how long it will take to do MM6. He is going to do RS G along with MM6. I wonder if Patty Paper would be worthwhile to do after that.

 

At this point I'm planning on Tabletclass for PreA......if he does PreA. Ds is starting 7th grade this fall and doing MM6. So, we'll see. I'll give him a placement test after MM6 to decide if he should do PreA or Algebra in 8th.

 

Oh, and LOF was a bust. Ds really likes it but it wasn't doing anything to reinforce his math. I'm not sure why. So we stopped LOF and he's doing Zaccaro Challenge Math instead. I like it much better.

[TracyP]

I use these boards A LOT to search for information about different math progressions. To that end, for other searchers, I want to post what we have finally decided to do.

 

DS11 just took the DOMA Algebra Readiness Exam (bought from HSBC) and scored "mastery" in all areas. This is after MM6. I am not going to take another year of PreAlg because 1, he doesn't want to, and 2, he is ready and excited for algebra. I figure I can take my time doing it. We have decided to do Foerster Alg I and Patty Paper Geometry for Fall 2013.

 

HTH anyone stuck in that "what do I do" agony zone after MM6.

 

bcn

Thanks. That is a great idea to use DOMA after MM 6 to get a feel for if someone is ready for Algebra.

 

Kleine Hexe, I posted upthread that I was going to get LOF but changed my mind since I already have other resources (including Challenge Math). This affirms me decision to use what I have, for now.

 

Signed,

TracyP who doesn't know why this thread is not showing up in 'My Content' so will post again with hopes that now it will. ;)