Read this if you were considering TESC...

[CourtneyBrooke]

It has come to our attention that TESC is revamping their degree requirements. This will apply to all who enroll after July 1, 2013.

 

Here is the article:

http://multimedia.te...13/feature.html

 

Here are some of the things that concern me:

-----------------

Global Environmental Change, War and American Society and Philosophy of Religion.

3.) Personal and social responsibility (9 credits)

 

Requirements encompass diversity, global literacy, responsible global leadership and lifelong learning course work. This category includes: Cultural Diversity, Elements of Intercultural Communication and Ethics and the Business Professional.

---------------

 

I'll readily admit I'm a conservative who is resisting these cultural diversity/ environmental/ etc changes. Part of the reason we were considering TESC for our daughter is to avoid the brainwashing from liberal professors at a young age (<18), and now it seems like that's what will be included since these are courses, not exams- it seems that none of these courses can be done by CBE (credit-by-exam).

 

It's still early; we'll have to see what they say. Lots of people aren't happy about this change. (BTW, my daughter will be learning about all of these things, just not through a liberal institution's POV.)

[Corraleno]

Your post is rather misleading. The catalog actually says:

 

Human cultures and the physical and natural world through study in areas including the sciences and mathematics, social sciences, humanities, history, languages and the arts (18 credits)

Requirements in this category will encompass courses in the sciences, social sciences and humanities including interdisciplinary courses such as Global Environmental Change (ENS-314), War and American Society (HIS-356) and Philosophy of Religion (PHI-370). Credit requirements are as follows:

3 credits in social sciences

3 credits in natural sciences

3 credits in humanities

9 credits in human cultures and the physical world electives

 

Those courses are listed as examples of courses that could be used to fulfill those requirements; it does not say that those specific courses must be used. In cases where specific courses are required, e.g. English Comp, that is spelled out explicitly in the catalog.

 

If you hope that your child will graduate from college without ever being exposed to views that do not strictly conform to a conservative Christian worldview, then perhaps you should find a conservative Christian college, rather than complaining that a state university is offering courses with a "liberal" worldview. And, frankly, if your student is so cognitively vulnerable that a few courses taught from other points of view would "brainwash" her, then perhaps you need to beef up the logic and critical thinking components of her curriculum.

 

ETA: Are you making these plans for your 11 year old?

 

Jackie

[delaney]

Your post is rather misleading. The catalog actually says:

 

 

 

Those courses are listed as examples of courses that could be used to fulfill those requirements; it does not say that those specific courses must be used. In cases where specific courses are required, e.g. English Comp, that is spelled out explicitly in the catalog.

 

If you hope that your child will graduate from college without ever being exposed to views that do not strictly conform to a conservative Christian worldview, then perhaps you should find a conservative Christian college, rather than complaining that a state university is offering courses with a "liberal" worldview. And, frankly, if your student is so cognitively vulnerable that a few courses taught from other points of view would "brainwash" her, then perhaps you need to beef up the logic and critical thinking components of her curriculum.

 

ETA: Are you making these plans for your 11 year old?

 

Jackie

I have to agree. Seems a bit overboard. I would be more concerned about the paranoia associated with the term brainwashing. She will be living out in the real world, right? If you don't want mainstream fork over the money for private.

[Guest inoubliable]

Really?

 

http://zapatopi.net/afdb

That should help. Practice making these now and by the time your DD11 is old/young enough to be subjected to diversity and culture, she should be a pro at whipping one of these up and staying pure. Good luck!

[Belacqua]

I'm such a thicko I thought we were talking about The Evergreen State College and couldn't help wondering why a conservative family would be considering that school in the first place.

 

As I'm told the kids say, Derp.

[Corraleno]

I'm such a thicko I thought we were talking about The Evergreen State College and couldn't help wondering why a conservative family would be considering that school in the first place.

 

As I'm told the kids say, Derp.

 

Thomas Edison State College offers a path to a college degree through CLEP, DANTES, and other credit-by-exam methods, as well as online courses. They also accept transfer credits from pretty much anywhere. It was originally aimed at older/working/nontraditional students, but there's an organization called College Plus that is now marketing TESC as a way for students to essentially "homeschool college." It's really just about getting that piece of paper as quickly and cheaply as possible.

 

There are people on the Instacert website, for example, who've passed CLEPS like Psychology & Sociology with nothing but a week of memorizing the REA prep book. Not really equivalent to taking a class with a real professor and a room full of students to discuss things with, but then that's not what they're looking for.

 

OTOH, some people want more out of the college experience than sitting at the kitchen table with a stack of prep books. Amazingly, some people actually value exposure to diverse ideas and worldviews.

 

Jackie

[Wheres Toto]

Thomas Edison State College is a state university in a pretty liberal state designed for adults who have a certain amount of experience or some schooling who are attempting to complete a degree. You have to be 21 years old to attend unless it's through a special program (http://www.tesc.edu/...-admissions.cfm), so besides not sounding like it's the kind of environment you would want for your child, she won't be eligible to attend for 10 years.

 

Edited because I just saw Corraleno's post: Is that the "special college program" they are talking about in the admission requirements? When I attended TESC, it was a pretty rigorous program and would have been very hard to complete a degree solely through testing. It's a shame if they've loosened up the requirements since that could only hurt their reputation.

[Corraleno]

Yep, I guess this is for the 11 year old:

 

6th grade is not too young to start planning. My daughter is 11 and will be taking her first two CLEPs at the end of the school year- Astronomy and Analyzing Literature- two courses we are taking this school year through BJU and Stobaugh, and using the CLEP to validate our learning. Next year we'll do Environment, History, more Lit, etc.

 

:huh:

 

Jackie

[Corraleno]

Edited because I just saw Corraleno's post: Is that the "special college program" they are talking about in the admission requirements? When I attended TESC, it was a pretty rigorous program and would have been very hard to complete a degree solely through testing. It's a shame if they've loosened up the requirements since that could only hurt their reputation.

 

The age limit doesn't apply if you've graduated HS, so a homeschool parent just needs to issue a diploma when they want the kid to start transferring credits. And the student can start accumulating the credits whenever they want. E.g., the OP's daughter is allegedly taking CLEPs as an 11 year old. :rolleyes:

 

TESC will take all CLEP and DSST credits, as well as some other CBE things that most colleges won't, and they also have their own CBE program. I know that many folks on the Instacert website were using ALEKS for math, and were able to get multiple math credits in a very short time. A lot of people there also used Clovis CC in NM for transfer credits, because Clovis has a lot of online courses, tuition is super cheap (~ $120 or so for 3 credits last time I checked) and they don't charge out of state tuition. Basically, students who use College Plus or Instacert try to pull together the required credits as quickly and cheaply as possible from many different sources, and then dump them all into TESC for a degree.

 

My SIL got a degree from TESC, but she was a working adult with 2 special needs kids (as well as a NJ resident), so it made sense for her. (And she actually took the online classes at TESC, wrote papers, etc., versus just CLEPing out of everything.)

 

Jackie

[Barbara H]

I've wondered for some time if Thomas Edison was going to get into trouble with their accrediting agency. The program they have right now is very atypical for a regionally accredited university, particularly a public one. To give such a huge portion of a degree based on CLEP and other credit by examination is unusual for a reason. To have such very light majors (based primarily on very introductory courses) is again unusual for a reason. Families who are upset about this change may want to consider that it may be a positive step if they beef up the requirements for the degree a bit because it may improve the odds that TESC will remain regionally accredited. If parents are primarily concerned that their kids get a degree and don't care about accreditation, there are other CBE Christian degree options.

 

Also, of course,all of our kids need to be prepared for the reality that we live in a global world. It is impossible to understand fundamental aspects of our world such as economics and environment without being able to think from a global perspective.

[Mergath]

Why on God's green earth would you want to "resist" cultural diversity? Are cultures other than white-protestant the borg? Are you worried your daughter is somehow going to be assimilated if you don't resist?

 

Also, brainwashing isn't going to a real college and learning about the world. Brainwashing is what happens when you keep your kid in such a tiny bubble shielded from all reality that you think you know what college they're going to before they've even hit puberty.

[Guest inoubliable]

Borg reference?

:001_wub:

[Corraleno]

I've wondered for some time if Thomas Edison was going to get into trouble with their accrediting agency. The program they have right now is very atypical for a regionally accredited university, particularly a public one. To give such a huge portion of a degree based on CLEP and other credit by examination is unusual for a reason. To have such very light majors (based primarily on very introductory courses) is again unusual for a reason.

 

:iagree:

 

TESC gives credit for the lowest minimum passing score and they accept all CLEPs, as well as DANTES (which none of our state uni's will accept) — e.g. TESC grants college credit for DANTES in Personal Finance, Fundamentals of College Algebra, and Principles of Physical Science. And they only require 18 credits (6 courses) above the 200 level for a Bachelor's degree.

 

Jackie

[Corraleno]

... you think you know what college they're going to before they've even hit puberty.

 

Well, apparently the OP and her husband do know what their daughter is doing for college, because they've already decided for her:

 

We are planning on our daughter (at least; we'll worry about the others later) to stay at home for college. The "college experience" that so many refer to usually includes drinking, sex, and partying ...

 

Jackie

[Nan in Mass]

Well, apparently the OP and her husband do know what their daughter is doing for college, because they've already decided for her:

 

 

 

Jackie

 

Is she going to be one of those very young college students? If so, I can see why they might want her at home, and why they might be more worried about point of view than usual. I think if that is what they are looking for educationally, then they need to look at a Christian college. Or wait until she is older. My youngest probably could have passed the community college placement tests at 13 or 14 but I didn't want to send him until he was older. (Global outlook and pro-environment were NOT the problem in our case. LOL I had more in mind the young woman in my older one's speech class who chose Which Type of Birth Control I Use as her topic. Not something I thought my 13yo would be comfortable listening to, even though the information wasn't new to him.)

 

Nan

[Corraleno]

Is she going to be one of those very young college students? If so, I can see why they might want her at home, and why they might be more worried about point of view than usual. I think if that is what they are looking for educationally, then they need to look at a Christian college. Or wait until she is older.

 

No, this isn't a case of a student doing calculus in 8th grade who needs to move on to college. Her DD is doing Algebra I, SOTW history, and BJU middle school science. She's said that they decided to keep their daughter home for college, so she is having the DD accumulate CLEP/DANTES credits in middle school. E.g.:

 

My daughter is using BJU's 8th grade Earth Science Online Distance Learning. She doesn't read much of the textbook, but between the videos and tests she is learning a TON, and loving it. ... After the first half (Astronomy) is done, she'll be taking the Astronomy CLEP. After the second half is done this fall (Env. Science) she'll be taking the corresponding CLEP for that as well.

 

So, she's hoping her daughter will get 6 college science credits for watching middle school videos from BJU. This is pretty much the opposite of accelerated kids whose parents are sending them to college early because they need more challenge.

 

The OP is getting her own college degree the same way:

Definitely take some CLEPs. Last week I spent three hours reviewing a recent course (hadn't studied since I dropped out of college 15 years ago), walked in the college and walked out an hour later with 6 credits in Literature.

I am finishing my degree and was avoiding the math courses or CLEPs until I found ALEKS. It was so helpful to me! I took two advanced Math courses with it during the free two-month trial, and earned 6 credits through ACE

 

Jackie

[Luckymama]

Oh my.

[Nan in Mass]

Well, to each their own, I guess. Sometimes I feel very rich. And very lucky.

 

Nan

[Wheres Toto]

Oh wow. All my CLEPs only worked for freshman level classes (and they weren't hard at all). Evidently things have changed.

 

I want my kids to go to college to learn things at a higher level, not just so they can say they have a degree.

[Barbara H]

While I'm wary of degrees for young people based almost exclusively on CLEP credits, I see a need for alternatives to the tradition full time four year experience for adult learners who are trying to continue family and work responsibilities. With only about 60% of students who start a college degree having finished six years later, we have a lot of adults out there who are sitting on piles of credits without a degree to show for it. As more and more a college degree is a requirement even for a lot of entry level jobs that's a real problem.

 

I really applaud anyone who is going back to school and finding ways to try to earn a degree while homeschooling. I have seen friends do this and it is not easy. I would love to see more flexibile options that allow for the needs of diverse adult learners, I just think we need to be mindful of upholding academic standards while we do that.

[Wheres Toto]

Barbara - that was my situation when I attended TESC. I had credits from 3 semesters at a small private college, another 3 semesters at a large state university, a few credits (paid for by an employer) at a community college, then a couple more semesters at a state university. I was in my 30's, working full time, and a mom. Since I already had enough credits to be considered a second semester junior, I was way past CLEP tests and did most of my credits through the on-line courses. At that time, they were not any easier than a lot of the classes I took through the various other schools I attended.

[Corraleno]

Barbara - that was my situation when I attended TESC. I had credits from 3 semesters at a small private college, another 3 semesters at a large state university, a few credits (paid for by an employer) at a community college, then a couple more semesters at a state university. I was in my 30's, working full time, and a mom. Since I already had enough credits to be considered a second semester junior, I was way past CLEP tests and did most of my credits through the on-line courses. At that time, they were not any easier than a lot of the classes I took through the various other schools I attended.

 

 

:iagree:

That was basically my SIL's situation, too. That's exactly what TESC was designed for (the average age of TESC students is 35). In fact, that's what CLEP tests were designed for, too — adults going back to college, not HS students.

 

I think this recent development, where organizations like CollegePlus are basically exploiting the system to sell the idea of CLEP + TESC to homeschoolers as "homeschooling college" (which they will help you accomplish for a couple thousand dollars in consulting fees) is really unfortunate.

 

And it's really the students who are getting cheated, IMHO. CLEP tests are 120 MC questions, and you only need to get ~50 correct to "pass." So you can take a test in American History, get 70 out of 120 questions wrong, and still get 3 college credits for American History. CLEPs were desiged to help adults get credit for past study so they wouldn't have to repeat basic courses — they were not meant to be a degree in themselves.

 

What's a "college degree" really worth if it's "earned" via tests (some of which are barely above middle school level) with scores that would get you an F in an actual class? :confused1:

 

Jackie

[Izzy]

It sounds like the only brainwashing your daughter is experiencing is coming from you. I am so sad for these children that are going to graduate homeschool and essentially know nothing about functioning in the world. It seems some homeschoolers walk a fine line between homeschooling and child abuse. :(

 

It has come to our attention that TESC is revamping their degree requirements. This will apply to all who enroll after July 1, 2013.

 

Here is the article:

http://multimedia.te...13/feature.html

 

Here are some of the things that concern me:

-----------------

Global Environmental Change, War and American Society and Philosophy of Religion.

3.) Personal and social responsibility (9 credits)

 

Requirements encompass diversity, global literacy, responsible global leadership and lifelong learning course work. This category includes: Cultural Diversity, Elements of Intercultural Communication and Ethics and the Business Professional.

---------------

 

I'll readily admit I'm a conservative who is resisting these cultural diversity/ environmental/ etc changes. Part of the reason we were considering TESC for our daughter is to avoid the brainwashing from liberal professors at a young age (<18), and now it seems like that's what will be included since these are courses, not exams- it seems that none of these courses can be done by CBE (credit-by-exam).

 

It's still early; we'll have to see what they say. Lots of people aren't happy about this change. (BTW, my daughter will be learning about all of these things, just not through a liberal institution's POV.)

 

[CourtneyBrooke]

Wow. It's really quite creepy how you have dug up everything I've said about the topic and quoted it so you can judge me. Criticize the system or the college all you want, but I'm not sure why you feel the need to criticize me.

 

There are many, many inaccuracies in what you've posted but I don't need to defend myself or my daughter to you. I'm done with this post.

[Corraleno]

Wow. It's really quite creepy how you have dug up everything I've said about the topic and quoted it so you can judge me. Criticize the system or the college all you want, but I'm not sure why you feel the need to criticize me.

 

There are many, many inaccuracies in what you've posted but I don't need to defend myself or my daughter to you. I'm done with this post.

 

 

You realize that there's a "content" button under everyone's name that lets you instantly see all their posts, right? No creepy detective work necessary. When I noticed in your signature that your daughter was only 11, I realized that you were the same person who posted last week about doing multiple CLEP tests in middle school. I remembered the post, because I responded that there are no CLEP tests for Astronomy or Environmental Science, and suggested that maybe you were thinking of DANTES.

 

You are free to judge college courses as liberal brainwashing based on nothing more than the course titles, but no one may criticize the educational plans you have explicitly posted about? I'm sorry, but I think you do your daughter a great disservice by deciding, at the age of 11, that she will not be attending college, and that all of her courses must be filtered through your own worldview. To me, that is the very antithesis of a "classical education."

 

Jackie

[cathmom]

Actually, this OP reminds of the recent post about "Beware Common Core" and then it was all about nothing. Why even post this post? Warning people that their child might have to take a class in college that might present a different world view? I thought that was practically a given! I had to take a class in college called Intellectual History: Class, Race, and Gender which I privately called "Indoctrination to Political Correctness" and I entertained myself by pointing out logical gaps to my instructors and still got an A.