If you switiched from MUS to a different math program, will you PLEASE help me out?

[ProudGrandma]

I have 3 kids. dd12, ds11 and ds8. dd12 has been using MUS since Beta, ds11 since Alpha and ds8 since Primer.

 

When my 2 older children got to Epsilon (this past year) they both couldn't understand how the fractions were being taught (and honestly, I didn't either...too confusing for all of us). So, because they both learn a little bit differently and because they are highly competitive I put them in 2 different programs to learn fractions. DD is using Key to Fractions and DS is using MM. They are both doing really pretty well with it.

 

So, now I am tyirng to decide what to do next year.

 

I am nervous about trying MUS again at the next level...so I looked at MM. I looked at the placement test for grade 6 (for dd)...and over half of the questions she wouldn't get...MUS never covered that information.

 

So, what do I do? I knew that MUS taught differently than other programs, and it didn't bother me because I intended to use it to the end....but now I am really questioning what I have done here...and what should I do with my little guy? Should I keep going with MUS until fractions? SHould I pull all 3 kids from MUS and start with something else?

 

If I do pull them out, what is the best place to go? Spiral math is NOT a good match for my kids...they need LOADS of practice with a concept before moving on (that is why MUS was such a nice fit and Saxon failed miserably here).

 

Please, if you stopped MUS mid way, how did you transition and what program did you move to?

 

thanks so much.

[Spillman6]

All ears.

[mom2bee]

Math Mammoth has a topical curriculum also, and they are fantastically priced. Why don't you begin now adding in any topical subjects that your kids need, keep it up through the summer and see how it goes?

[cbollin]

my story? used MUS with my oldest (currently 11th grade) from her Kindy year until middle of her 5th grade year. She did the "classic" program until the greek letters were released. switched over at epsilon. we plugged and chugged through Zeta. finishied it. it was middle of 5th grade.. We never felt MUS was complete without other topics, so I made sure to get those using informal methods with things like Cyber Chase, games, etc. I was fascinated at the time with Singapore math. So, she took placement test and placed in to Singapore 4B after Zeta. we used Singapore 4B-6B. then, in 7th grade started with Saxon 87 with prealgb. She placed higher into Saxon after Singapore, but I had a check in my system that she didn't need to do Algebra I in 7th grade. Glad I listened to myself. so, 87 it was. that gave her time to adjust to "real test" and learn from book and all of that. She did Alg I in 8th, Geometry with Jacobs in 9th. (we wanted a full year proof based thing and several of our real life friends suggested it). Saxon II in 10th, passed CLEP college alg. and is now doing Saxon Advanced this year. Plans to do a full college trig text next year as pre calc to fill gaps and be more prepared for college calculus second semester.

 

I was fine that after MUS Zeta that we placed into Singapore 4B. We still got through it. Some people think Singapore doesn't have enough math review. We taught concretely with Singapore. It covered stuff in a very different way from MUS. one example was that when it came to word problems, in singapore we worked more on parts to whole, and thinking about the process, but in Zeta we were trying to learn vocab of equations and how to manipulate those. The word problems in Singapore with "bar diagrams" could then allow for more complex problems because we weren't dealing equations and all of that. so, I think that helped us a lot over the years.

 

I saw every page as opportunity for review.

 

mileage will vary. but that's my story.

[kiana]

For your dd who's already using key to fractions and doing well, why not do key to decimals and percents and then follow up with a pre-algebra course? She should have everything covered by then.

[ProudGrandma]

but she doesn't....I mean...I was looking at the MM placement tests for 5th and 6th grade...and over half of the concepts she would fail at...it wasn't until I looked at 4th grade that I felt both of my older kids could pass a placement test. THe concepts that they don't have include intergers, lots of geo concepts, mean, median and mode, exponets, histogram and stem-and-leaf plot, angles, ratios, proportions, decimals, percents, simple and complex probibility, order of operations...

 

they would be so lost!! and so frustrated. But I hate to take a 7th grader back to 5th grade math. That will do NOTHING for her confidence level.

 

UGH....i fear I really screwed up here..and my kids are going to suffer for it.

[boscopup]

they would be so lost!! and so frustrated. But I hate to take a 7th grader back to 5th grade math. That will do NOTHING for her confidence level.

 

 

I haven't used MUS, but I have used Math Mammoth. Two things:

 

1) Math Mammoth doesn't have grade labels on the worksheets, so just give your children the right level WITHOUT the cover sheet. ;) Or use the blue topic books (no grade levels at all!) to catch up on needed topics before doing prealgebra.

 

2) Even if you used the light blue grade level MM workbooks, you wouldn't need to do everything. Skip over what the kids already know well, and just hit the parts they don't know. MM is very easy to accelerate. When my oldest was using MM, I gave chapter tests if I thought he knew the material. If he aced the chapter test, I knew it was safe to move on and skip that chapter. It would still be reviewed via cumulative reviews and the word problems within other chapters.

[Pen]

My ds moved from MUS delta to MM5 (because MM4 was mostly division which he had done in delta). When things seemed missing in his knowledge we supplemented and when he already had had something we skipped it (like the multiplication and division review parts). It was fine. Ds had had some of the missing parts though because they are covered by our state's testing, so I had worked with him on graphing, probability, and so on already even though MUS did not have that. But it was not hard, at least for him, to get. What he learned with MUS is really solid, so I do not regret that. And on the contrary, work he did with keys to fractions had no retention, so I do regret that.

[prairiewindmomma]

We added in singapore math in addition to MUS with my oldest many years ago....we use singapore to introduce/teach a topic and math-u-see as problems to work on to master that concept with an easy answer key.

 

We are ditching SM after ds finishes epsilon in a week or two. I looked at zeta pretty thoroughly, and most of those concepts have already been introduced by singapore math. Really, Zeta is decimals, percents, order of operations, negative numbers and the metric system.

 

Aufmann's pre-algebra (generic chalk dust) covers decimals, percents, order of operations, fractions, and negative numbers in the first four chapters, fwiw, if you're comfortable teaching the material or using the dvds. They are cheap to pick up on amazon used.

 

Ds actually did ok on the pre-test for AoPS pre-algebra....I think he did well based on his singapore exposure. We're planning to move on to AoPS pre-algebra and if we need to pause, to use the Aufmann pre-algebra. I ordered AoPS last night....so I need the books to get here to be sure. In the meantime, I printed off some worksheets off the MUS worksheet generator for Zeta to review, and he's got some Singapore math to finish up.

[Lori D.]

One thought: Epsilon is the one level that seems to really be a "hit" or a "miss" for students. Since it is all about fractions and it is a "miss" with your students, no harm in switching away to what does work for fractions. And if you have liked MUS up until Epsilon -- and it has connected well with your students -- then you could go back to MUS after Epsilon.

 

MUS was the program that *finally* connected for our math struggler when we found it in 5th grade. But for BOTH our DSs (and older DS was very math-minded and could use any math program), I always used supplements along with the "spine" math, because I believe ALL students grasp math better by seeing it from more than one perspective. For younger math-struggler DS who used MUS as his spine, we also used Singapore 4A/B, 5A/B and 6A/B along the years we did Epsilon, Zeta and Pre-Algebra. We also used some of the Keys To... books to cement decimals and percents.

 

Not trying to sway you BACK to MUS -- just suggesting that the Epsilon level may be the only troublesome level for you. :)

 

While not as completely mastery-based as MUS, these math programs cover a topic in a large "chunk" or unit which is mastery-based within the unit:

- Teaching Textbooks (table of contents to Grade 5 and Grade 6 -- which are the grades that cover fractions most heavily)

- Christian Light Education (CLE) Math (see scope and sequence -- you have to scroll down, math is about halfway)

- Singapore (see scope and sequence)

 

But yes, ANY program you switch to will have a different scope and sequence, so your student will have been exposed to some topics from MUS -- but will have "gaps" in other areas. One suggestion is to just go ahead with Math Mammoth, or whatever other program that is working, and then use specific supplements to teach and fill in specific gaps as they pop up. The Keys To ... series is great for that. There are also loads of websites with teaching info, worksheets, online games, and other resources for helping with specific math topics -- for example trying "fractions help" as a search pulled up:

 

Free Math Help (tutorials, worksheets...)

Math is Fun (explanations, visual illustrations...)

Math.com (worksheet practice)

Cook Math 4 Kids (games, practice)

 

You might also look at the Cyberchase episodes available on YouTube --

is one that focuses on fractions.

 

BEST of luck, whatever you decide! Warmest regards, Lori D.

[dereksurfs]

We started all the dc in MUS from the very beginning with Primer and have now effectively switched all out.

 

ds11 went the furthest with it through Zeta and the first part of Pre-A (to cover S&S gaps). Then we promptly switched him over to TabletClass Pre-a which has been both more challenging and better prep for Algebra 1 - a win/win for us and great decision.

 

For dds we moved them to CLE which is spiral, but nothing like Saxon. I wouldn't dismiss all spiral based on a poor Saxon experience. Their transition took more work in back peddling first before getting back to grade level. But now they are on target and thriving in CLE.

 

In your situation I would not recommend putting the older dc 'back' in MUS. Get elementary completed with MM, KeysTo or something else. Then move into Pre-A with another program.

 

For the younger I would demo a few programs with him like MM, R&S, CLE, SM, etc... then let him participate in the selection process. Our dds did this and liked CLE best which helped with the tranisition.

[Joyful_Journey]

We actually did the reverse (transitioned from MM into MUS), but I thought I would chime in anyway since we've had a foot in each program. I think you would be fine with just going forward with MM6 and filling in any gaps with either Key to books or previous individual lessons from MM5. If you tend to prefer mastery but would rather not go back to MUS, then I think MM is a great solution. I wouldn't panic about the lack of knowledge of some of the MM6 topics. I prefer the way MUS teaches the concepts, but I do appreciate the rigor and coverage of some things in MM. Since I rarely use any curriculum by itself, I'm pulling from both of them. My ds10 is about to begin Zeta. When he is finished Zeta next year, I plan to have him work through certain sections of MM6 before beginning pre-algebra. Someone on the board once mentioned that MM6 has quite a bit of pre-algebra already in it, and I have to agree since my oldest dd worked through it last year. In the end, I think you just need to find a program (or a blend of programs in my case) you and dc like and keep going with it. When we skip around math programs (I am guilty of this as well), we do need to go in and address any gaps since all of the programs have a different scope and sequence. When I moved my daughter from RS to MM years ago, I feared that RS had left her deficient since she was hitting things in MM that she was not taught in RS. It is possible that RS would have hit those topics eventually, but just later than when MM introduced them. It didn't mean that RS isn't a good program (actually, I think it is fantastic, but it was becoming too teacher intensive for me as more kids came along) - it just had a different S&S. MUS has actually just released some changes to their program in the form of additional student enhancement pages that will tackle some of the things other math programs cover at that age. The teaching of the concept will be directly on the student page (so there is no change to the DVDs) which may help to alleviate some concerns about the difference in the coverage of topics without changing the heart of their program which is mastery of a concept before moving on. I'm looking forward to seeing the changes (it may mean less supplementation with MM for my dc).

 

Derek had a great suggestion in having your kids test drive a couple of programs and see what appeals to them. I did that with my dc, and MUS really worked for them and they've enjoyed it more than MM. Does that mean MUS is best for everyone? No, each child is going to gravitate toward an approach and level of rigor that appeals to them. What is most important in the end is finding something that helps them understand math (dare I say even enjoy it?) within the context of their own learning style. Good luck in your search!

[ElizabethB]

I switched from MUS to Singapore. I backed up but it is easy to skip whole chapters and get caught up. It took about 6 to 9 months to get caught up. Singapore Standards is mastery but has some review, about the perfect mix for us. The mastery layout made it easy to figure out which chapters to skip.

[ProudGrandma]

Math has been a BIG issue for us since the beginning....we tried Singapore, we tried Saxon, we tried Math on the Level...and we tried MUS. Up until this point MUS was the ONLY one that worked for us. MM is working for my one son with fractions....key to fractions is working with my daughter...MUS is still working (mostly) for my other son...but we had to stop and work on Multiplication facts...so I am not really sure if MM would be a better fit for him too...I just don't know. Math is so important and I am so worried that my kids won't have a good, solid foundation before hitting the higher levels.

 

thanks for all of your thoughts and opinions. They always mean so much to me and give me something to think about.