X-POST Help me with this counseling diagnosis please

[caitlinsmom]

*Posted on the general board. Someone mentioned I might get answers here. Thanks!*

 

My 10yo dd has always been a puzzle to raise. I don't really know how to describe her accurately. Over the years we have dealt with a handful of issues. In general she has out grown them. The last year or so we have seen a sharp decline in her ability to handle most situations and interactions with family. It has made our home life a very stressed place. Everything is met with a voice at top level, anger and tantrums. I wake up to her yelling at someone every single morning. Anyway after a particularly horrible meltdown last week I called a counselor. I wanted a 3rd party opinion. Bi-polar runs so strong in my family I have been terrified she may have it. Today was her assessment appointment.

 

The verdict?

 

She is intellectually in her mid teens while her coping skills, social skills, emotionally, etc are on target for a 10 year old. He said that absolutely nothing that we told him or she told him has him concerned about bi-polar (thank goodness! Although we will continue to watch as adolescence can mask bi-polar) and that the other issues we mentioned were stemming from not having enough perceived control. He said that most of the issues stem from poor impulse/anger control which were things that could be worked on very easily. He mentioned a bunch more but that is enough for a public forum ;) We will go back next week to discuss more.

 

So first off...

 

has anyone else had this kind of diagnosis?

What in the world do I do with a kid like this?

What does this really mean?

Do kids like this finally come into balance as they reach adult hood?

 

I guess I am feeling kind of confused (a common emotion when dealing with dd).

 

I have been at my wits end for months. I was prepared for something clinical that I could Google and write down a plan of attack. "hey you have teenager living in your 10yo body" really isn't going to bring much up on a search unless it's on National Inquirer site. :)

[Jean in Newcastle]

OK - I have a 15 year old and an 11 year old. Let me tell you, ten year olds have tantrums and can be very moody! Gifted kids can be intense at times too. Put the two together and it can be frustrating. It is tricky to provide enough challenge for the intellectually gifted side of the child, while still understanding but providing boundaries for the normally developing tween. It sounds like the counselor will help you with the emotional side of things.

[caitlinsmom]

OK - I have a 15 year old and an 11 year old. Let me tell you, ten year olds have tantrums and can be very moody! Gifted kids can be intense at times too. Put the two together and it can be frustrating. It is tricky to provide enough challenge for the intellectually gifted side of the child, while still understanding but providing boundaries for the normally developing tween. It sounds like the counselor will help you with the emotional side of things.

 

 

You know if you asked me 9 years ago if I thought my daughter was gifted I would have shouted an enthusiastic "Yes!". However, I don't think she is really. I almost didn't x-post this because I can't say she is really anything but average. She does just enough to get by at all times in all things. Sometimes I see this glimpse of her intelligence but it fades as quickly as it comes. I don't mean that in any harsh critical way just I don't see her being so out of balance. Now, saying that I have no idea what gifted even "looks" like so I could be just crazy lol.

 

I am concerned with the boundaries and the anger. I feel like this diagnosis is just another large question mark in our lives. I want a clear cut plan. I can deal with average because I take x,y,z to get where we are going. Does that make sense? I don't know that it does. How do we provide a home where she can grow into who she is meant to be while dealing with a split personality of sorts (bad analogy I know)?

 

I think I need to go to bed. :)

[songsparrow]

She is intellectually in her mid teens while her coping skills, social skills, emotionally, etc are on target for a 10 year old.

 

Such asynchronies are hallmarks of gifted kids. She will grow out of it, or more accurately learn to deal with it, to a certain extent as she matures and her coping skills grow. However, she may always be more emotionally intense and intuitive. I'd recommend you check out the SENG website (Supporting Emotional Needs of the Gifted) and specifically the book A Parent's Guide to Gifted Children. The book offers a ton of strategies and techniques you can try to help her - not all will work for your daughter, but I'm sure you will find some that will.

 

She does just enough to get by at all times in all things. Sometimes I see this glimpse of her intelligence but it fades as quickly as it comes.

 

It is not unusual for gifted kids to be underachievers (there's a whole chapter about it in the book I recommended above). If she hasn't been faced with material that both engages her and challenges her, if the material bores her, it's not at all unusual that she would do the minimum she has to do.

[wapiti]

Let me tell you, ten year olds have tantrums and can be very moody! Gifted kids can be intense at times too. Put the two together and it can be frustrating.

 

 

I hope and pray that this is right. I am turning into a pretzel trying to figure out what ds10's tantrums are about (literally a switch flips and he's two years old for long enough to drive me insane, and then switches back to his sweet self), and ultimately it might just be his age/hormones?!! I'm changing his diet anyway, LOL...

[wapiti]

.

[dbmamaz]

idk, my daughter has struggled for a decade now. bipolar runs in our family but the first 2 therapists were sure that wasnt it. One med doc thought it could be. she's tried therapy and tried meds and is really struggling. but i honestly am not impressed with that kind of evaluation without concrete recommendations. in fact, this was my biggest frustration after getting my son evaluated . . ok, yes, you've neatly cataloged all of his issues. now what am I supposed to DO?!

 

I think my daughter and i probably should have done some family counseling, idk. our relationship was badly damaged. She's at my moms now and still trying to get help. She became really difficult at 11. Hopefully for your daughter, its just a phase, but i think its a good idea to develop a relationship with a good family therapist who is familiar with bipolar, if you can find one.

[morgan]

My experience/diagnosis with my DD17 was different (but she was screened for bi-polar as several other mental issues) I can tell you that if counseling isn't working, or you don't like the counsel you are getting, I would move on quickly. It took us a good 9 months at a center that specializes in children and teens to get escalated to a psychiatrist and appropriate psychologist for meds/counseling; and we pretty much had to demand to see someone else. We didn't fell like the person we were seeing was really giving us helpful advice or treating the underlying problems. I feel like the team we have now is really giving her valuable advice (that doesn't conflict with our parenting). And she is able to listen to it better than she listens to my husband or myself.

 

I am not sure I believe kids just "outgrow" difficult behaviors because if they don't learn appropriate coping skills they will not be able to apply them as they age. And as they go through the teen years the problems/issues they face just become bigger and the consequences become more life altering. But I am not a mental health professional, just the parent of a teen with some out of control behavior :)

[dbmamaz]

i think there are some kids who go wacky during puberty and outgrow it . . .

[8filltheheart]

I hesitate to respond, but I do not believe it is normal 10 yr old behavior at all......gifted or otherwise. Moody is not the equivalent of lacking impulse control nor is it the inability to react w/o angry outbursts or cope with stress within normal boundaries. Those behaviors coming more extreme in early puberty are red flags to me. They sound like executive function deficits which may or may not be indicative of a larger underlying condition.

 

I don't want to alarm, but from our parenting experiences, I wish helping a child with lack of impulse control was a small issue which was easily translated into assisting the child controlling their impulses. Same with anger management. With our ds, even at 21 and yrs of therapy and meds, they are issues that still impact his life and our family.

 

FWIW, it took a lot of effort and time to get an accurate diagnosis. He was misdiagnosed multiple times (including bipolar which in his case was wrong.) When you state that yesterday was her assessment appt, how was she assessed? It seems unusual for an assessment and diagnosis to have occurred at a single appt (it is also unusual to be able to get in with a counselor in a wk!!) I would have expected an initial appt to have been a discussion about problems and deciding what testing should be done, followed by future appt(s) with several hrs of testing, followed by an appt to discuss what testing revealed.

 

If the diagnosis was based on parental surveys, I would find a new counselor immediately. Time is precious when it comes to behavioral interventions. You do not want to waste those precious months on inappriate treatments b/c some therapies are more effective the younger they are. You can't get the time back. And in the ineffective therapies/treatments will only leave your family and her more distressed. It is an incredibly difficult road when the therapies are wrong and behaviors continue to escalate and deteriorate.

[clemota]

I have a highly gifted, highly under-achieving 15 year old who was diagnosed with moderate to severe anxiety and depression when he was 12 years old. Moody as all get out. The IQ score surprised us because while he was a good student, he wasn't a great one - he had managed to "hide" it from his teachers and classmates. He also had other issues with executive functioning (due to asynchronous development), which compounded the anxiety, which worsened the depression, which caused further issues with his executive functioning, etc, etc.

 

We found a counselor who specialized in gifted children, took him out of school, and got him to "restart" his life. He's now attending a private high school because he didn't want to homeschool any more. His executive functioning skills are still in the dumps BUT he now works with a school counselor who "gets" kids like him, and is helping him learn how to work with what skills he has. His anxiety level is very low, and depression seems to teen-normal.

 

One of the things that both the gifted psychologist and the school counselor assured us was that, with time, these asynchronies will level out. He may always have issues with executive functioning (heaven knows that I do!), but they will not be quite so debilitating. So yes, hopefully, things will "even-out" for your child. And I second the recommendation for Parenting the Gifted Child. It was a life-saver for us.

 

On another thought, one of my DDs has sensory processing disorder, and while she outgrew many of her issues, she can still get VERY angry and tantrum-y if she has had a growth spurt (mental or physical), and I find I have to pull out the occupational therapy techniques to get her body (and therefore her mind and emotions) to calm down again. Is it possible that your DC has a hidden sensory issue? It may be worth getting an assessment just to eliminate that possibility, or get help if that is the basis for her outbursts. It made a huge difference in our family. For what it's worth, she is also 10, and I can tell when it's just pre-teen hormones, and when it comes from somewhere else at this point. The sensory anger is just non-stop, whereas the the hormones are more fluctuating.

 

{{hugs}} It's hard to have to see your child go through this. I hope you get it all resolved and work towards whatever healing she (and your family) needs.

 

-Gabrielle

[kiwik]

More information.

 

Did she have an IQ test? If so what was the score and profile?

 

What were the other issues you have had that you mentioned.

 

I was like that at about 13. It was like every bit of ** I had dealt with built up and caused me to explode - and get very depressed. I also thought going to high school (primary until 12 then high school) would mean I would finally get to learn - it was just as bad only bigger.

 

If she is gifted and has been trying to fit in she may just have had as much as she can cope with. Or there may be another issue.

 

 

[brendag]

I would have to agree with a PP. I would find it very...unethical...if any therapist gave any kind of diagnosis based on one visit (or even a few), especially with something as serious as bipolar. There are so many conditions that have overlap, especially since the psychological community are loosening their requirements for different diagnosis. Just look in the new DSM. It took over a year to finally diagnose my brother with his illness years ago, not that it should take that long, but I know I would want there to be a thorough evaluation done for sure.

 

I'll echo what others have said. If there is a chance that your dd is gifted, you might want to have her evaluated by a therapist that also specializes in gifted children/adults. Most therapists do not have any real experience with those issues and it can make the world of difference.

 

No matter what, I wish you and your daughter well.

[caitlinsmom]

I appreciate the responses. I will check out the book and website recommendations.

 

As I said in the original post, I was not forthcoming with all information as this is a public board. I am confident in the counselor we have chooses as it was a well researched decision and a great fit for dd. Bipolar has never been a worry with any of her practitioners. It has always been a worry of mine, though she rarely exhibits any of the symptoms (the few she does can easily be attributed to a host of other "issues"). I see now that I should not have included that information in either of my posts as it detracted from my questions and concerns.

 

I will rethink how to present this question and the issues in a manner than accurately portrays the situation while still maintaining her privacy as much as possible. :)