if you use IEW: how to incorporate WWS?

[serendipitous journey]

I notice that pretty much everybody agrees that WWS is about all the writing that should be demanded of a child during the year it is used -- esp. if it is in 5th grade and not later -- and am wondering how people who use IEW manage this? Do you drop IEW for that time? Interleave somehow?

 

thanks in advance!

[lewelma]

Have you read through both of these programs? WWS teaches the student how to take notes and how to footnote/reference material, both of which are covered in IEW in a slightly different format. But what WWS contains that IEW does not is *how* to write the different types of paragraphs and essay types. What are the questions you ask yourself? What are the parts you should include in each type? How does the approach differ depending on the subject matter -- history, science, literature. It also contains LOTS of examples for imitation that IEW does not contain. In addition, IEW does not contain as much *new* material as WWS as you move further into the program. It is more of a style of presenting material -- modelling, checklists, essay formats, vocab brainstorming etc.

 

If I were to integrate them, I would use the IEW approach with the WWS material. I would have a student read days 1 and 2 in WWS on Mondays, which on a typical week teach and demonstrate the new paragraph/essay type. Then I'd print out the WWS requirements that are in the teacher's manual and use them as a check list for the student to tick off. I would then have the student choose what subject to write about and provide your own source material on Tuesday. And write and edit the essay on Wednesday and Thursday. Then do the WWS copia work on Friday.

 

Ruth in NZ

[serendipitous journey]

Ruth, thank you so much. I do not have both -- just IEW, which I'm still going over -- and was commenting to DH last night that I ought to go ahead and purchase WWS so that I'm at least able to ask intelligent questions about it!

 

I appreciate your suggestion of how one could integrate the two; and I read your recent comments that WWS2 is easier to use with one's own source materials than WWS1. Since we'll be using IEW for the rest of 2nd and through 4th (that's the plan, along with WWW) does it seem advisable to you to integrate them? Would you do this with your own younger one?

[5LittleMonkeys]

Are you planning to use WWS1 in 5th grade? If that is your intention then I would simply have your student use the stylistic techniques (strong verbs, adverbial and adjectival clauses, sentence variation...) they learned in IEW, which by that time should be pretty automatic, when writing the assignments in WWS. Your student will be using a completely different method for taking and organizing notes in WWS ... there is no way to integrate the KWO into WWS, nor would you want to. KWO are like dog paddling when learning to swim; the note taking in WWS is the breast stroke.

 

To give you another analogy...because I'm just in that mood today...WWS is the recipe for the cake. IEW is the decorating kit. They work well together in my opinion.

[serendipitous journey]

thanks, Aime! This is very very helpful to hear. Are you planning on working with any of IEW's SWIs (or theme-based or advanced writing programs) after introducing WWS?

[5LittleMonkeys]

thanks, Aime! This is very very helpful to hear. Are you planning on working with any of IEW's SWIs (or theme-based or advanced writing programs) after introducing WWS?

 

I have used\am using : WWE 1-4, WWS1, IEW TWSS, IEW SWI A and B, IEW's Fables, Myths, and Fairytales. I will be using another themed program next year for dd10 (Medieval History), in addition to Elegant Essay (which I'm previewing now). I'm going to be getting, at some point, HighSchool Essay Intensive, Writing Research Papers, and Advanced Communication Series. The highschool programs may or may not get used depending on what I think of them after I've previewed them. Even if I do end up using them I will tweak them to suit my own style of teaching, which incorporates ideas from several different writing methods. I've never been able to find a writing program that has everything I want so I pick the things from different programs that I feel they present best and meld them.

 

I'm teaching writing classes at co-op for students in grades 2nd - 11th and my methods incorporate ideas from WWE, WWS, IEW, Killgallon and Classical Writing. It's a bit of work, but I think it's been effective.

[lewelma]

I appreciate your suggestion of how one could integrate the two; and I read your recent comments that WWS2 is easier to use with one's own source materials than WWS1. Since we'll be using IEW for the rest of 2nd and through 4th (that's the plan, along with WWW) does it seem advisable to you to integrate them? Would you do this with your own younger one?

 

 

For my younger, we will do IEW through 4th grade, and then if he seems ready we will start WWS1 in 5th. However, there is a general consensus that the program is tough to start in 5th and do level 2 in 6th. My older has done level 1 in 6th and level 2 in 7th, and even then it would have been really nice to do each over 1.5 years because he is learning so many new things and some weeks take more than the 1 week allowed (even SWB in the program suggests taking longer on some). But then there are 36 really good weeks of material, and sometimes we really only have 34 weeks to do writing a year. And I don't want to skip anything, and it would be impossible to collapse it unless your kid is in high school. That is a bit of a stream of consciousness, but the point is that if my younger starts level 1 in 5th, we will take 1.5 years for level 1 and level 2 and do level 3 in 8th. This will allow us to take 2 weeks for a 1 week assignment if needed, and will allow us to practice the new skills for an extra week every month. I am telling you, that there is a LOT of material to learn. If, however, he starts in 6th, then I will try to keep to 1 year per level, but will not be traumatized if we go over by a couple of months.

 

As for integrating IEW with WWS, personally I just won't try. My son has learned so much with IEW already and has lots of confidence, but WWS introduces NEW stuff, like lots of new stuff each WEEK! IEW seems to do more of the same year after year with slightly increasing difficulty, but mostly with a focus on structure and style (thus the name). WWS is about CONTENT. In classical terms, it is about invention. What are you going to say? Where do you find advanced content in your mind? What is actually interesting and useful to the reader rather than just nicely organized and decorated fluff? This is coming out loud and clear in level 2.

 

The other big thing SWB is working on is advanced note-taking from the point of view of avoiding plagiarism and keeping track of lots of material that you want to write about. As a pp said, the kwo is just baby stuff compared to WWS's notetaking.

 

It is not that I will be giving up on IEW. I just think that my son will have learned about 70% of what the program has to offer by the time he is about 10.5. Already, he can deal with multiple sources, he can summarize material, he has nice structure to his paragraphs, he has nice style that is starting to be more natural, he can write fiction and non-fiction, and he is comfortable with writing. All these things he will continue to use in WWS. For him, I think it will be time to go to the next level of writing, which is all about working on his thinking. Learning to write is about layering techniques. He will tack on WWS on top of IEW's skills. There is no need for me to officially integrate them. He will do it on his own just like my older has.

 

Well, that was a bit of a ramble, but I am happy to answer more questions.

 

Ruth in NZ

[TarynB]

Thank you for this thread and for sharing your thoughts on IEW and WWS. We used WWE and intended to go straight to WWS but I found a detour was necessary. So we jumped to IEW this year and it was exactly what DS needed, and I'm planning on WWS next year. It has been SO helpful to read the thoughts of those who have used both IEW and WWS successfully! I love these boards and those of you who so willingly and graciously share your advice! Thank you!

[serendipitous journey]

Ruth, thanks so much! Your plan for the younger child makes such good sense to me, and seems more natural than a formal integration. I can't tell you how good it feels -- such a sense of relief -- to have a plan in mind as our writing moves forward. <<happiness!>>

[5LittleMonkeys]

* he has nice style that is starting to be more natural,

 

* All these things he will continue to use in WWS.

 

* He will tack on WWS on top of IEW's skills. There is no need for me to officially integrate them. He will do it on his own just like my older has.

 

 

 

I just wanted to come back and expand on this a bit and to clarify. I know there are those out there that only use IEW and it works well (or maybe sometimes doesn't) for their dc. However, I believe, through my experience, that IEW is best used as an interim tool between getting thoughts on paper and learning what thoughts to put on paper. IEW's strength is to help a student build confidence in how their writing "sounds", and to create a tool box of techniques to add stylistic interest to their work. The mark of whether they have learned those skills is when they are able to take those tools and use them without even thinking about it...without a checklist. When those tools and techniques become part of their style and voice and they just naturally vary their sentence structure, use phrases and clauses for conciseness and emphasis, and think about word choice based on feeling, mood, and message, then it becomes easier for them to work on the skills brought forth in WWS.

 

I do not hand my student an IEW checklist when she is doing her WWS assignments. Those skills are part of how she writes now...not awkward add-ons that must be added to fulfill a rubric. She has learned when to use them effectively, and she's learned when it's more effective not to use them...she has graduated from IEW's school of stylistic techniques. :)

 

Anyway, I just wanted to confirm what Ruth was saying. I didn't want you to think I was suggesting integrating the methods in a structured checklist type of way.

[cdrumm4448]

We will finish this semester of Essentials, but I have stopped requiring the writing assignments. We have moved on to WWS1.

[Coffeemama]

 

 

For my younger, we will do IEW through 4th grade, and then if he seems ready we will start WWS1 in 5th. However, there is a general consensus that the program is tough to start in 5th and do level 2 in 6th. My older has done level 1 in 6th and level 2 in 7th, and even then it would have been really nice to do each over 1.5 years because he is learning so many new things and some weeks take more than the 1 week allowed (even SWB in the program suggests taking longer on some). But then there are 36 really good weeks of material, and sometimes we really only have 34 weeks to do writing a year. And I don't want to skip anything, and it would be impossible to collapse it unless your kid is in high school. That is a bit of a stream of consciousness, but the point is that if my younger starts level 1 in 5th, we will take 1.5 years for level 1 and level 2 and do level 3 in 8th. This will allow us to take 2 weeks for a 1 week assignment if needed, and will allow us to practice the new skills for an extra week every month. I am telling you, that there is a LOT of material to learn. If, however, he starts in 6th, then I will try to keep to 1 year per level, but will not be traumatized if we go over by a couple of months.

 

As for integrating IEW with WWS, personally I just won't try. My son has learned so much with IEW already and has lots of confidence, but WWS introduces NEW stuff, like lots of new stuff each WEEK! IEW seems to do more of the same year after year with slightly increasing difficulty, but mostly with a focus on structure and style (thus the name). WWS is about CONTENT. In classical terms, it is about invention. What are you going to say? Where do you find advanced content in your mind? What is actually interesting and useful to the reader rather than just nicely organized and decorated fluff? This is coming out loud and clear in level 2.

 

The other big thing SWB is working on is advanced note-taking from the point of view of avoiding plagiarism and keeping track of lots of material that you want to write about. As a pp said, the kwo is just baby stuff compared to WWS's notetaking.

 

It is not that I will be giving up on IEW. I just think that my son will have learned about 70% of what the program has to offer by the time he is about 10.5. Already, he can deal with multiple sources, he can summarize material, he has nice structure to his paragraphs, he has nice style that is starting to be more natural, he can write fiction and non-fiction, and he is comfortable with writing. All these things he will continue to use in WWS. For him, I think it will be time to go to the next level of writing, which is all about working on his thinking. Learning to write is about layering techniques. He will tack on WWS on top of IEW's skills. There is no need for me to officially integrate them. He will do it on his own just like my older has.

 

Well, that was a bit of a ramble, but I am happy to answer more questions.

 

Ruth in NZ

 

Thank you Ruth and OP! I am struggling with my oldest DD who is a strong writer. She does not like IEW and doesn''t want to stay with it even though i'm teaching it at co-op. Since she is a natural strong writer, she thinks it is too easy for her.

 

Now thAt i hearWWS is more challenging with new lessons every week, I think we'll go for it!

 

IEW is working wonderfully for my son, and I personally love the program. But it just isn't enough for my DD12.

 

ETA. Sorry for my terrible typos...im stuck on my ipad.

[shanvan]

Jumping in with a question for Ruth. Sorry if it is slightly off topic.

 

Ruth,

 

I know I've read comments you have made about Lost Tools of Writing. Are you using/do you plan to use LTOW in addition to what you've mentioned above? Where do you see it fitting in terms of what you have posted above? Ds (14) and I are using i now, and both think it's doing a wonderful job helping Ds to come up with his own ideas (invention, I guess) and organize them well in his essays.

 

As I'm reading about the above I see using WWS with Dd next year in 6th, which is something Ds did not have under his belt before starting LTOW. I'm wondering if you can give an idea of how WWS and LT might compliment one another? Or maybe you think LT would fit after WWS? Any thoughts?

[lewelma]

I know I've read comments you have made about Lost Tools of Writing. Are you using/do you plan to use LTOW in addition to what you've mentioned above? Where do you see it fitting in terms of what you have posted above? Ds (14) and I are using i now, and both think it's doing a wonderful job helping Ds to come up with his own ideas (invention, I guess) and organize them well in his essays.

 

As I'm reading about the above I see using WWS with Dd next year in 6th, which is something Ds did not have under his belt before starting LTOW. I'm wondering if you can give an idea of how WWS and LT might compliment one another? Or maybe you think LT would fit after WWS? Any thoughts?

 

Ah, yes, you and I have the same exact thoughts. When I wrote about LToW vs WWS last year, WWS2 was not out so it was impossible to see how SWB would cover the different parts of her ToC. And I will say that I am VERY pleasantly surprised with level 2 (I much prefer it to level 1). Level 1 focused on narratives and descriptions which is outside the scope of LToW, and now it looks to me like level 2 and 3 will be covering some of the topics of invention (I am not clear on how many). We have just finished "definition" (weeks 12-15) and it was absolutely beautifully explained and presented. So I am thinking to myself, how does this material compare to how LToW teaches Definition? How much overlap will there be between the programs? How will their approaches compare? So, this weekend I started rereading LToW (it is kind of fat and takes some wading to get through it). I have some initial impressions, but I want to hold off discussing my thoughts until I am better informed. I hope to finish this comparison in about 2 weeks and can post my thoughts then if you would like.

 

Ruth in NZ

[Jane Elliot]

Ah, yes, you and I have the same exact thoughts. When I wrote about LToW vs WWS last year, WWS2 was not out so it was impossible to see how SWB would cover the different parts of her ToC. And I will say that I am VERY pleasantly surprised with level 2 (I much prefer it to level 1). Level 1 focused on narratives and descriptions which is outside the scope of LToW, and now it looks to me like level 2 and 3 will be covering some of the topics of invention (I am not clear on how many). We have just finished "definition" (weeks 12-15) and it was absolutely beautifully explained and presented. So I am thinking to myself, how does this material compare to how LToW teaches Definition? How much overlap will there be between the programs? How will their approaches compare? So, this weekend I started rereading LToW (it is kind of fat and takes some wading to get through it). I have some initial impressions, but I want to hold off discussing my thoughts until I am better informed. I hope to finish this comparison in about 2 weeks and can post my thoughts then if you would like.

 

Ruth in NZ

 

I was so hoping someone would compare these two (LTOW and WWS2)! I can't wait to hear your thoughts.

[shanvan]

Ah, yes, you and I have the same exact thoughts. When I wrote about LToW vs WWS last year, WWS2 was not out so it was impossible to see how SWB would cover the different parts of her ToC. And I will say that I am VERY pleasantly surprised with level 2 (I much prefer it to level 1). Level 1 focused on narratives and descriptions which is outside the scope of LToW, and now it looks to me like level 2 and 3 will be covering some of the topics of invention (I am not clear on how many). We have just finished "definition" (weeks 12-15) and it was absolutely beautifully explained and presented. So I am thinking to myself, how does this material compare to how LToW teaches Definition? How much overlap will there be between the programs? How will their approaches compare? So, this weekend I started rereading LToW (it is kind of fat and takes some wading to get through it). I have some initial impressions, but I want to hold off discussing my thoughts until I am better informed. I hope to finish this comparison in about 2 weeks and can post my thoughts then if you would like.

 

Ruth in NZ

 

Yes, please! I forgot to respond when I read your post earlier. I wish I had WWS so I could offer my opinion, but I just can't buy another writing curriculum right now.

[MeganW]

So helpful in making long-term plans - thanks!

[mothergooseof4]

Ah, yes, you and I have the same exact thoughts. When I wrote about LToW vs WWS last year, WWS2 was not out so it was impossible to see how SWB would cover the different parts of her ToC. And I will say that I am VERY pleasantly surprised with level 2 (I much prefer it to level 1). Level 1 focused on narratives and descriptions which is outside the scope of LToW, and now it looks to me like level 2 and 3 will be covering some of the topics of invention (I am not clear on how many). We have just finished "definition" (weeks 12-15) and it was absolutely beautifully explained and presented. So I am thinking to myself, how does this material compare to how LToW teaches Definition? How much overlap will there be between the programs? How will their approaches compare? So, this weekend I started rereading LToW (it is kind of fat and takes some wading to get through it). I have some initial impressions, but I want to hold off discussing my thoughts until I am better informed. I hope to finish this comparison in about 2 weeks and can post my thoughts then if you would like.

 

Ruth in NZ

 

I, too, would love a comparison.

[lewelma]

I found it.....

 

x-post

 

As some of you might know, I have been reading lots of writing curricula and writing books as a way to prepare for teaching high school writing. And now I have somehow fallen into being an English tutor for a friend's boy who is in 11^th grade! Yes, I know this is nuts. But there it is. So, I have been busy reading and thinking and understanding how different methods lead to the same endpoint.

 

I would like to compare WWS and LToW because they are very different in their approaches, and I hope that my thoughts might give parents a framework to review all the other curriculum that are out there. WWS is not completely written yet, but my ds and I have worked through level 1 and are beta testing level 2; and with the scope and sequence, it is all becoming clear. I have not used LToW, but have read it twice. I'm sure that users can add to my comments from their personal experience.

 

THE BIG PICTURE

 

The end goal is to be able to write like Rachel Carson or MLK. Their work is showcased in Corbett's Classical Rhetoric for the Modern Student – the top book recommended by SWB in the WTM for advanced 12^th graders. I have read Corbett and Horner (Rhetoric in the Classical Tradition which was recommended by 8filltheheart). These essays are long, well researched, and well reasoned using a variety of arguments. The language is beautiful and carefully chosen, and the ideas are organized carefully for the greatest effect. This is our goal.

 

There seem to be 2 main ways of approaching this goal – whole-to-parts and parts-to-whole. LToW uses whole-to-parts and WWS uses parts-to-whole.

 

LToW teaches the student to write a persuasive essay on the first day – it starts with the whole. The first essay is simple in ideas, structure, and elocution – it is really boring to read as is clearly stated in the program. But it is still a full essay – a thesis with 3 arguments. The idea is to give the student the entire picture first and then over the period of years to improve upon it by teaching the student to 1) construct better arguments by thinking about the topic more clearly, 2) arrange ideas better by drawing the reader in with good introductions and conclusions, 3) write with more beauty both by avoiding vague words and by including advanced language constructions. This is an iterative process. The student always writes a full essay but then improve upon it over and over again.

 

WWS teaches the student to write one piece at a time, but to write that piece in an advanced manner. Each month SWB introduces the student to another piece of a good essay and has the student write that one piece in an outstanding way. There is never a boring, annoying, full essay written on purpose like in LToW, but then again the student only writes small pieces. Her goal is to have the student rock solid in writing descriptions, narratives, definitions, comparisons, and cause/effects, and then and only then to write a large persuasive essay using all these pieces. This essay will be saved for high school level writing (I am assuming this will be the focus of her Writing with Style high school program). SWB has stated numerous times that she regularly sees students who can write essays but have nothing to say; they have nothing to say because they have never been taught deep, meaningful thinking and how to translate it into good, solid, effective writing. This is what WWS teaches. Each piece is developed in minute detail – the questions to ask yourself, the examples to read, the subtle differences in thinking required for different topics. But the student using WWS only writes 1 or maybe 2 pieces at a time. The full essay is delayed until the student masters the pieces, which would require 3 or 4 years. These pieces are required for advanced essays like Rachel Carson/ MLK, but are rarely seen in High school because of the "5 paragraph essay," which is simple in invention and arrangement. SWB has a larger goal in mind -- university-level writing.

 

University-level writing has a thesis to prove, but you don't prove it with 3 points. You introduce the topic with a personal narrative, and then define the difficult words, which leads to comparisons and cause/effects. You describe an important sequence, and end with a powerful conclusion, with pointed questions. All the pieces come together to prove your thesis. This is the goal. Just look at a classic essay and this is what the author has done. The author does not have a formula of: tell them what you are going to tell them, tell them 3 points, and tell them what you told them. This formula does not lead to great writing. A student must advance beyond the formula in university. SWB's WWS avoids the formula and focuses on the pieces so that one day the student will be ready to put them together into a great and powerful persuasive essay (I assume this is the goal of WWSkill). LToW uses the formula as a temporary crutch and hopes that one day the student will move past it.

 

Obviously, which type of program is better for a student depends on the student.

 

THE DETAILS

 

There are some smaller things of note.

 

Writing Examples: LToW does not provide examples, but recommends that you find some to show your students. WWS has LOTS of very well chosen examples.

 

Learning style: LToW uses discussion to teach material. WWS is a self-taught program using a textbook.

 

Type of essay taught: LToW teaches persuasive writing; WWS teaches expository and literary analysis.

 

What students write about: LToW lets students pick what they want to write about. WWS gives topics and resources to the student (except for a few research papers).

 

Invention Topics covered: LToW teaches definition, similarities and differences, circumstance, cause and effect, authority witness/expert. WWS teaches descriptions, narratives, definitions, comparisons, and cause/effects. WWS1 mostly focuses on descriptions and narratives which are not really covered in LToW. WWS2&3 and LToW overlap on many invention topics.

 

Research Skills: LToW focuses on ideas that the student comes up with from their mind. WWS has a *strong*, purposeful focus on research, note-taking, documentation, footnotes, and plagiarism.

 

Thinking skills: LToW is excellent in getting kids to really think about a subject by teaching them to ask questions. WWS also uses questions and is equally excellent, but has even more questions, more detail, and more subtle differences. WWS is more advanced in thinking skills.

 

Arrangement: LToW has formulaic essays. WWS has clear guidelines but not formulas.

 

Elocution: LToW has an excellent (and I mean excellent!) elocution section for each essay. With a focus on vague writing and advanced techniques. WWS has a much more simple approach to elocution than LToW.

 

Well, that is about it. I am happy to answer questions if anyone has any. I have reviewed a bunch of curricula before on this thread, and a LOT of other people contributed. So it is worth your time to have a read if you have not already.

 

MY PERSONAL CHOICES (depending on when WWS3 comes out)

 

IMHO WWS2 is more difficult than LToW. So you could definitely do the sequence WWS1, LToW, WWS2, because WWS1 is mostly focused on descriptions and narratives which are not really included in LToW. But LToW introduces the different invention topics in a simpler manner than WWS2, so you could use it as a slower introduction. The main problem with this is that after doing the elocution in LToW, WWS2 will seem simple, and you will probably want to skip it. I do think that LToW will give you student the big picture, which can at times be lost in the details of WWS. My ds has good elocution skills, so he has found the WWS2 material too simple, and we have skipped most of it. I think he will love LToW elocution.

 

For me, since we will be done with WWS2 this year, we will switch to LToW next year and try to apply our research skills and more advanced questions learned in WWS2, but still use the LToW framework. I personally really dislike the LToW teacher's manual. I mean really, get to the point! But I am sure that I can teach it my way with a bit of effort. Here's to hoping the SWB works her little fanny off to get WWS3 out ASAP!

 

Ruth in NZ

[Mom0012]

I love Ruth's suggestions, but since my son takes an IEW class every year, we did a chunk of WWS last summer and then worked on it between IEW assignments. It would have been too much for him to do both in a day and his IEW assignments were pretty specific. We dropped WWS in February because we were just getting to that point in the year where I needed to lighten up. Next year will likely be the last year he takes the IEW class, and if that is the case, I plan to pick up again with WWS, review the sections we already did at double pace and then continue to move through the program.

 

I have to say the writing my son did with WWS was quite surprising at times. It brought out a poetic side of him that I didn't think was possible. This didn't happen with every assignment, but there were a few where he truly shocked me, even though what he wrote was only a few sentences. During the time we were using WWS, his IEW teacher commented on the improvement in his word choice. Since we've dropped WWS, I've seen him revert back to more simplistic sentences again.

 

Now that I'm writing his out, I am wishing I hadn't signed him up for IEW next year and just planned on WWS. WWS was getting very difficult for him, though, by the time we dropped it. (He has language-based lds.). So, for him, he will be much older than the recommended age when we pick it back up, but it will be interesting to see how he does with it. I'd start again over the summer, but he needs a break and so do I, so we're just going to practice summarizing, and outlining (WWS style).

[mothergooseof4]

Soooo, I have an eighth grader that has had little writing instruction. We have tried through the years, but nothing has stuck or we got bogged down and dropped it. He has done an essay in Essentials in Writing this year, but it was a mess, and he couldn't do it again without the workbook. I guess it didn't leave him with any skills to fall back on.

 

I have been watching IEW TWSS and love how you have a basic outline that seems like it would be easy to pull out of your memory if asked to create a report or essay. I also like most of the stylistic part of the program. It seems very streamlined which I sort of feel that he needs in order to instill a base to build on.

 

Then I flip through my copy of WWS1 and I really like it. I don't want him to miss out on the skills I see there, but I feel like he may not get a skill set that will stick since it seems like it might get lost in the details of the program. I have considered having him do both, but where would we ever find the time?

 

And, I have LToW here. I haven't gotten a chance to look through it, yet. I do know that I am okay with putting it off until ninth.

 

I also like what I see of Cover Story so far and can't wait for the details and samples of that program to be released. I think it may appeal to ds most, but since it isn't out yet, I can't know if it will prepare him for high school writing since he doesn't have much of a skill set in place.

 

It is so hard trying to decide!

 

What would you do to prepare an eighth grader that hasn't had much writing for high school? IEW? WWS? WWS with some IEW thrown in?

[butterfly113]

Bumping for mothergooseofthree in hopes that Ruth in NZ would chime in. :-)

 

[lewelma]

I would do IEW. If a student is not really comfortable with writing and has trouble remembering detailed instruction, I would definitely go with the more holistic approach of IEW. This does not mean that the skills in WWS are never learned, but may need to be learned later or in a more integrated manner.

 

For a student that keeps forgetting what has been learned over the year, I would suggest creating a summary sheet for the year.  There are 9 IEW units to be done in 9 months, and then there are the stylistic elements (dressups, sentence openers, decorations). At the beginning of the year take a large sheet of paper (a double letter size, whatever that is called in the US) and divide it into 12 squares.  When new material is learned, it is added to the summary sheet in the correct box, and then related to what has been previously learned -- meaning discuss how the new information is similar/different from previous skills learned, how it augments/replaces previous skills, etc. Throughout the year, the entire sheet is filled and reviewed.  In my experience, this all-in-a-glance approach helps to reinforce the global nature of the material learned.

 

I think it is really important to use something that you think will work this year, then evaluate what would be most appropriate next year -whether that is LToW or WWS.

 

Ruth in NZ

[mothergooseof4]

Bumping for mothergooseofthree in hopes that Ruth in NZ would chime in. :-)

 

 

I would do IEW. If a student is not really comfortable with writing and has trouble remembering detailed instruction, I would definitely go with the more holistic approach of IEW. This does not mean that the skills in WWS are never learned, but may need to be learned later or in a more integrated manner.

 

For a student that keeps forgetting what has been learned over the year, I would suggest creating a summary sheet for the year.  There are 9 IEW units to be done in 9 months, and then there are the stylistic elements (dressups, sentence openers, decorations). At the beginning of the year take a large sheet of paper (a double letter size, whatever that is called in the US) and divide it into 12 squares.  When new material is learned, it is added to the summary sheet in the correct box, and then related to what has been previously learned -- meaning discuss how the new information is similar/different from previous skills learned, how it augments/replaces previous skills, etc. Throughout the year, the entire sheet is filled and reviewed.  In my experience, this all-in-a-glance approach helps to reinforce the global nature of the material learned.

 

I think it is really important to use something that you think will work this year, then evaluate what would be most appropriate next year -whether that is LToW or WWS.

 

Ruth in NZ

 

Thanks ladies.  I did end up with IEW for all of the kids.  I watched the TWSS and went with themed books, ATFF with the 4th and 5th graders.  With my 8th grader, we have started with RRR, but we have not enjoyed the material itself.  I just exchanged it for the Starting Points themed book since we will be starting that program in a week or so.  I am prepared to adapt the lessons for him if needed since that book is listed as level C.  If it proves too much, we will do IEW writing on our own with material we select and just use Staring Points for reading and discussion.