Why Ambleside over TOG and visa versa?

[littlebylittle]

Please tell me why I should begin TOG over Ambleside Online next year with my 1st grader and Kindergartener. OR please tell me why Ambleside Online is a better choice over TOG. Throw in Veritas Press History if you want. ;)

 

Please use reasons other than: Ambleside is free; yes, this is definitely a plus.

 

Thanks guys!

[boscopup]

Do you plan to use TOG through high school? If not, I'd probably wait. I was drooling over it the first year or two of homeschooling, but then realized that it wasn't going to be a good fit for us. I used SOTW in 1st and 2nd grade, and it was cheap, easy to use, and plenty of history. :) We read Bible alongside SOTW1 (but not coordinated) and made a LOT of connections.

 

I haven't used AO yet. I may use some of it next year for my then 1st grader, but I won't be using the history cycle. I'm not crazy about some of the history books used. This child will likely do SOTW 1 in 2nd grade when my oldest comes back around to ancients (5th grade).

 

I'm a big believer in keeping things simple in those younger years.

[littlebylittle]

I find myself in agreement with you, big time! I want to keep things simple and know others using SOTW and enjoying it. Does it have lots of activities {student activity book? coloring pages?}. My 1st grader {next fall} is majorly into hands on and projects and all that jazz while I am not so much. Blissfully he also LOVES being read to, and I love reading, so that is why I thought TOG would be a good combo; but no, I am not sure I am going to use TOG through high school. I just cannot look that far into the future and don't know if my kids will be doing public school or what for high school. So, that indecision may be why TOG isn't best for us.

 

My question about Ambleside is that there isn't much to "do" other than read. I LOOOOVE reading and my kids love it, but are there any groups that have suggestions on stuff other than reading to do with them... or is just reading the literature, history, etc going to be just fine for their age along with nature studies etc. Hmm... thinking out loud.

[Zoo Keeper]

This is just my two cents, but I think that unless you feel some glorious calling to TOG, I wouldn't be too worried about investing in it NOW. Examine it again a year or two from now and see if you still feel that drawn to it. Using TOG can be a bit to wrap your head around (for some), and keeping things simple will help things get done.

 

SOTW is a great option--yes, there is an activity guide for each book that has coloring sheets, discussion questions, additional reading lists, and crafts/projects to go with each chapter. You can choose which supplemental books/projects would work best for you and your ability, inclination or budget.

 

Ambleside has lots of nice lit on their lists--pick some that appeal to you, and add them in for some of that reading you love. Do it during whatever time works for you, so there is no pressure to get this or that done so you can do something else. Don't worry too much about making all your reading line up with your history, some books are just lovely to enjoy at any time.

 

AO does have a forum, and many Yahoo groups; maybe there would be more info there for "extra" to go with AO (not trying to shoo you away, just trying to point you in a direction that might have more answers.) :)

[boscopup]

SOTW can be done with as many or as few projects as you want. There are several projects listed for each chapter. There are also several books listed for each chapter, so you can see what your library has. My library usually had at least 2-3 books for each chapter, which was perfect.

[Susie in MS]

For me the TOG *fog* was unbearable. It suffocated me. And I won't say AO is free, but I will say that TOG is very expensive (I know that this is different for everyone).

 

AO is more than just a reading list (unless that is all you want from it). You can read up on the whole program at the AO site. The forum (which is quite helpful) is here. With AO I don't feel overwhelmed at this level, though I don't intend to continue with it through high school. I can often times do the AO lessons with dd and still have time for FIAR, our heart throb. When I get out Our Island Story, Burgess Bird Book (and BBB cards for color), Just So Stories, Paddle to the Sea, etc it is always the same with dd. She loves these books and it shows in her very dramatic reaction. She loves doing the copywork selections posted on the yahoo loop, which I printed up into a booklet, and then illustrating them. I think, too, one thing that is good for us is the way AO rotates the books. Although I like to read through a book all at once, we also like swapping these out. It keeps them fresh and exciting. The vocab in these books is wonderful. My 7 yo doesn't have any problem with understanding Parables From Nature, but she did when she was 6. So for us waiting to start Y1 in second grade was a key. But her vocab has been expanded by these great books. I love it when she starts using some line from poetry to express herself.

[Another Lynn]

I would think TOG and AO would have totally different feels to them. I've dabbled in both at different times - I've never done either one purely. I think TOG shines when it allows younger ones to tag along with what the older ones are studying. This doesn't mean it's not good in the early years, but that the priority is the older ones. The youngers are exposed to history topics lightly. There are plenty of hands on activities encouraged for that age. It also seems to me that there is a great emphasis on non-fiction books in TOG compared to AO. AO is designed to go slowly and deeply every year. There are more narrative works. Also, TOG is committed to using books that are in print while AO's first commitment is to use living books (and usually books that can be read online for free - so older works). If I sound biased, sorry - I do prefer AO. Nothing wrong with what TOG does - nothing wrong with sticking to in-print and mostly non-fiction books. I'm just trying to point out that the two programs will naturally feel very different and that is partly because of how they go about choosing their books.

 

There are other things to consider - TOG has a 4 year cycle that includes Creation while AO has a 6 year cycle that starts with the history of England, adds in classical retellings of ancient myths almost every year, but saves ancient Greece and Rome until Year 6. Also remember that TOG is unit study and AO is not. You will get art and music appreciation in AO but they will not necessarily correspond to the history you are reading, etc. Also, obviously, TOG is meant for combining any number of students. AO is not really geared for combining which can effect how you use it.

 

Lastly, as others have said, it's very easy to add SOTW to either one. If you used AO, you could easily add SOTW and use the activity guide to add in hands on activies. If you used TOG, you could add in SOTW to give your history readings a more narrative feel and you could use either TOG's activities or SOTW's activity guide for hands on stuff.

[Susie in MS]

Just a quick list of some of the extras at AO:

 

Copy work

Artist and art study

Composer study

Poetry

 

Memorization is suggested per CM

 

 

Some extras post in the files at the loop:

 

Kings and Queens cards to go with history

Paddle to the Sea activity guide

 

There are Pinterest sites linked in the forum.

 

I don't know if the Burgess Bird Book cards are posted at the loop or the forum but a quick google for Burgess Bird Book cards (also Burgess Animal Book cards linked on this WTM forum) will bring them up if you are interested.

 

I know I am forgetting somethings, but I have to head back to work. The forum and AO site will help you a lot if you are truly considering AO.

[littlebylittle]

You guys!!! This has been SO helpful to me. I've spent many hours reading, reading, reading the AO website. Love it. Love the CM approach and know that children will make connections between things and don't necessarily need a 'unit study' approach {though I like that too in one sense}. I know 'free' is not entirely right either :) but at least you're not buying an actual curriculum with AO. We were thinking of starting Y1 next year and doing it with both my K'er and 1st grader. We are already reading and/or have already read many of the Y2/Y3 books but dabbled mostly. Anyways, I need to look more at SOTW - I also heard Veritas Press was excellent and even though it's technically for 2nd graders, it works well for younger ones. Thanks again to all who responded!!

[Susie in MS]

know 'free' is not entirely right either :) but at least you're not buying an actual curriculum with AO.

Oh please let me apologize! I didn't mean to insinuate that you didn't know you have to buy any books and paper/toner, I-Pad, etc. I realize you were referring to the curriculum. I was making a poor and rushed attempt at humor by not saying what you asked not to be said. ;)

[Kfamily]

Hmmm, well...I'll probably sound biased too, but I'll try to give you another opinion. I agree with Another Lynn. She pointed out the major differences between the two.

 

I have one older unit of TOG because I too had long heard so many good things about it and needed to have a closer look at it. I agree with Lynn that much of what makes the difference for me is the booklist. While there are many choices, and for some this is positive, I found many of the books were either too dry or not rich enough in depth for our family. It is very difficult to find the best book which fits every topic in history, literature, geography and all of the other content subjects. I feel, imho, that often many curriculas try so hard to find a book to take a topic to a deeper level that they often cannot do so unless they use a book that fits the topic need but not necessarily the good book need. (I hope this makes sense.) Sorry, I'm getting off-track here. TOG has more teacher notes and helps than most curricula have. I think this is what really helps so many and is part of its draw. I think many users of TOG like that so much is already done for you. (And as one who is on the other side...doing all of the research myself...I can see the draw to it.) I do imagine that combining children is also made much easier with TOG. I personally was a little disappointed with the included printables which had been designed to go along with the curriculum. For example, the literature printables for the books for this unit were sparse and not of a quality that I couldn't have easily created myself. But, I did have the older edition, so perhaps they've improved this aspect.

 

Ambleside Online, which we used for many year, has a focus on books which builds reading levels in children, which builds character and values and which have been carefully chosen. The booklist per topic coverage is much less, but the idea is that the books have been chosen because they represent all of the better qualities in literature. Some of the works are dated and many here have decided to replace them because they have offensive ideas in them. Most importantly, AO is not just a booklist. It is not a booklist only. The best way to really understand how to use AO is to read CM's original works and find what aspects of her methods and ideas ring true for you. Finding a path for your family takes time and constant adjustment. Sorry, I'm getting off-track again. :)

 

I hope this helps a little.

[coffeegal]

I would think TOG and AO would have totally different feels to them. I've dabbled in both at different times - I've never done either one purely. I think TOG shines when it allows younger ones to tag along with what the older ones are studying. This doesn't mean it's not good in the early years, but that the priority is the older ones. The youngers are exposed to history topics lightly. There are plenty of hands on activities encouraged for that age. in AO but they will not necessarily correspond to the history you are reading, etc. Also, obviously, TOG is meant for combining any number of students. AO is not really geared for combining which can effect how you use it.

 

 

The teacher's notes, discussions, and ability to combine students was essential for me when I switched over to TOG. :001_smile:

[Heidi]

I did AO/charlotte mason only when my oldest were in those grades. It was a WONDERFUL year. You just can't beat the books listed in AO either. TOG was really written for highschool/middle school with the lower grades to tag along. In my opinion, it is a pretty expensive program for what you get in the lower grammar stage. But, I know there are those that would disagree.... It would be a great option in a few more years perhaps.

[MamaChristina]

Okay, here is a big reason to do AO, the history selections are SO much more engaging!!!!! At least they have been for my children. I have tried TOG, SOTW, Veritas Press, MFW, and HOD and for some reason my children just LOVE the AO books over everything else. They love Our Island Story, 50 Famous Stories Retold, the Synge books, etc. When we've tried other programs someone always says, "Mom, do you remember when we were reading (some favorite book from AO)? Can we please do that again? We always end up returning to AO. If you want to add in a hands on element it would be super easy to do by adding History Pockets or some Time Travelers from Homeschool in the Woods. Whatever you choose, just have fun reading to them. :drool:

[Amy M]

I agree with the consensus--if you're not committed to TOG for all your schooling, I don't think it's best for those ages. I'm doing SOTW with a young 1st grader right now, and it's just enough, and we can't even keep up with adding in much literature at all! We are loving it, though. So I would recommend SOTW with the activity guide, if you want to do the chronological history cycle. Then just look for the TOG lit selections at your library. :) AO sounds good too. I've read everything on their website. :p

[Tracy]

Well, I think as a general rule, it is unwise to invest in pricy curricula when your children are so young. That said, I started TOG when my oldest was only 5yo. I will tell you why it was a good choice for us and why it continues to work well for us.

 

First, I already had a year of homeschooling under my belt, so I had a general idea of what sorts of things work for us and what did not. You don't mention whether this is your first year or not. If it is, I would highly recommend waiting on such an investment until after you have a year behind you.

 

Second, my dd7 has loved history since she was only 3yo listening to Schoolhouse Rock. We read every single book in the reading lists, including the alternates if we can find them. When I find a book boring, I look over to her, and she is inevitably smiling. She also is very much a talker. Although the Socratic discussion format is not used in the lower levels, as I look ahead, I know that my dd7 will grow very comfortably into this teaching method.

 

My ds4 is not all like this. He likes math and is less impressed with social studies. If I were looking for something with him in mind, TOG would not be it. But since we have it, we will use it for him, too, although at a much smaller scale.

 

Lastly, I really do appreciate the opportunity to become accustomed to this very complex program while my kids don't need so much complexity. This is not a good reason by itself to use TOG, but it is a nice benefit. I think it would be hard to jump into it at the upper levels.

[ktgrok]

what about biblioplan?

[AngelBee]

Well, I think as a general rule, it is unwise to invest in pricy curricula when your children are so young. That said, I started TOG when my oldest was only 5yo. I will tell you why it was a good choice for us and why it continues to work well for us.

 

First, I already had a year of homeschooling under my belt, so I had a general idea of what sorts of things work for us and what did not. You don't mention whether this is your first year or not. If it is, I would highly recommend waiting on such an investment until after you have a year behind you.

 

Second, my dd7 has loved history since she was only 3yo listening to Schoolhouse Rock. We read every single book in the reading lists, including the alternates if we can find them. When I find a book boring, I look over to her, and she is inevitably smiling. She also is very much a talker. Although the Socratic discussion format is not used in the lower levels, as I look ahead, I know that my dd7 will grow very comfortably into this teaching method.

 

My ds4 is not all like this. He likes math and is less impressed with social studies. If I were looking for something with him in mind, TOG would not be it. But since we have it, we will use it for him, too, although at a much smaller scale.

 

Lastly, I really do appreciate the opportunity to become accustomed to this very complex program while my kids don't need so much complexity. This is not a good reason by itself to use TOG, but it is a nice benefit. I think it would be hard to jump into it at the upper levels.

 

[AngelBee]

I can't figure out how to quote from phone properly. I agree with the above. We have used AO in past and now have used TOG for two years. Many on the AO books are actually used in TOG. TOG however sometimes uses adapted versions in younger years or raises age they are used. I needed that in my family.

 

We also have used SOTW for going on four years and will continue to do so. We LOVE it!!! I also have and use the activity guides. :)

[Michelle My Bell]

Just a quick list of some of the extras at AO:

 

Copy work

Artist and art study

Composer study

Poetry

 

Memorization is suggested per CM

 

 

Some extras post in the files at the loop:

 

Kings and Queens cards to go with history

Paddle to the Sea activity guide

 

There are Pinterest sites linked in the forum.

 

I don't know if the Burgess Bird Book cards are posted at the loop or the forum but a quick google for Burgess Bird Book cards (also Burgess Animal Book cards linked on this WTM forum) will bring them up if you are interested.

 

I know I am forgetting somethings, but I have to head back to work. The forum and AO site will help you a lot if you are truly considering AO.

 

 

How do I get to this "loop" you speak of?