Christian Moms - science and history questions

[IceFairy]

We are Christians and right now are using Christian Liberty Press and its working really well....but looking ahead to next year, I am very unsure about the science and history. I have a nagging feeling that my kids would be better off learning science and history in a secular manner. What are your thoughts on this? Is there a curriculum that meshes both lines of thinking?

[mumto2]

We have always used a wide variety of materials. We check out huge stacks of books from our library which generally are not Christian. A majority of what I purchase are Christian. My personal philosophy has always been along the lines of our home school and church will be where they learn the Christian point of view -- most other experiences will not be. I don't really worry that much of their education has been from the Christian perspective. I feel it will be a great basis for their future education.Use what works best for you and your children.

[Tracy]

I think this is a great question. The church I belong to does not believe in (macro) evolution but does not take a stand on the age of the earth. So I feel rather caught in the middle. I want my kids to understand both perspectives.

 

I see that your kids are little like mine. At this age, I have decided to focus on what they can actually see and observe. I love that the science we are using does not delve into evolution at this stage for this very reason. There is so much to science that is not evolution or the age of the earth that I do not feel that my kids are missing anything with this approach.

[Donna A.]

Several years ago I had become frustrated with not finding a Christian curriculum that supported (or at least didn't contradict) our specific denominational beliefs, but upon reading The Well Trained Mind, I couldn't buy into the argument that history is "neutral", either. (I could go into a lot of examples of the effects of a belief in "neutral" education, but I won't do that here.) EVERYONE has a bias of some sort... and that becomes evident depending on one theological views, which is where we ran into trouble with most Christian curriculums. I wanted a curriculum that would allow me to teach biblical history and science along with the secular without telling me as fact that (for example) Christopher Columbus was undoubtedly a Christian and he was seeking a new world to spread the Gospel, OR that completely left out any references to his religion as if God had nothing to do with him or his explorations or his place in history. I wanted access to resources that taught more than one view, but I didn't know where to find those resources on my own, so I wanted some guidance with that for me first, as the teacher when my children were young, and then they themselves as they got older. As I began my search, I came across My Father's World and found what I was looking for. http://www.mfwbooks.com/

 

While MFW can't be used secularly very well because it's so blatantly Christian, it CAN be used by many different Christian denominations. There is very little denominational or doctrinal slant in MFW, but you will learn biblical history and science alongside the secular. There's a greater Bible emphasis in the early years, but more and more secular resources, instruction to research and discuss with your parents or pastor as the child grows and matures. For example, compare the lesson samples and the books used in MFW 1st grade, the elementary Creation to the Greeks, and the high school Ancient History and Lit.

 

I will say that MFW is for folks who don't want to delve into the false gods and religions of the ancients with their children at a very young age. Those are introduced a little at a time over the years, but a biblical foundation is laid first. So if you're looking for Story of the World Volume 1 (or something similar) in 1st grade, you won't find it scheduled in the lesson plans. However, because of the Book Basket concept (explained below) and the flexibility of MFW and how it's laid out, a lot of moms choose to go ahead and add SOTW 1 anyway. That's your choice.

 

If you look through the different books in their packages, you'll see that they use a wide variety of publishers. This is intentional. They also include an extensive list of books and videos that you can either purchase or get from the library in the back of each TM. These are optional, and you can choose from the list as much or as little as desired, depending on time and interest level. But I would say that about 95% of these titles are secular. There are a *few* titles on the lists from a Christian publisher or producer (like the Nest videos, for example), but most are not. Likewise, some of the main resources scheduled (included in the package you purchase) are secular publishers, and some are Christian publishers but not all the same denominational POV. Using MFW for many years has helped teach our children that there are a wide variety of opinions out there on any given topic, and you must do the research to determine what you believe is the truth about them. Sometimes we can't know the truth about certain historical events unless we dig deeper and get as close to the original documents as possible. However, what *IS* absolute truth is the Word of God, which is an original source document (unless you can read Greek and have access to the original Greek text, of course), so that's our foundation. Not XYZ denomination or ABC doctrinal beliefs (that should come from the parents and your own church), and not this historian or that author. Man is fallible, but God is not.

 

Those are this Christian mom's beliefs about teaching history and science. :) And MFW is the curriculum we've chosen to (mostly) teach it from a non-denominational specific core with lots of flexibility.

[Ellie]

The problem with doing history with purely secular resources is that so much of it is revisionist/politically correct. And although I'm not so set on a literal six-day Creation the way I used to be, I can also not believe that all life forms evolved from the same slime on the rock, so I'd have to go with a Christian publisher/Christian resources for science, as well, and discuss with the dc that the six-day Creation account is just one possibility.

[hsmom2011]

n/m

[mom31257]

I am a Christian, but I want my kids to learn about other theories and viewpoints. That being said, I want them to learn later than earlier, though. I want to present opposing views as their reasoning develops into much higher thinking. I am using SOTW with ds, but I didn't start it until 3rd grade. I feel it is secular, but neutral. I have chosen a few things to skip that I felt were a little too much political correctness, but only a little. I used Real Science Odyssey's Life Science for grades 1-4 because it was purely neutral and good hands-on stuff. The recommendations included for other books and websites may not have been neutral, but I used my own supplements.

 

With the age your kids are, you could easily pick the same history and science to do together. If you want a textbook approach, I really like Bob Jones History. They are releasing a new first grade curriculum this Spring. First grade would be a different topic than your CLP had and would be in between the ages of your kids. I bet they will release a new one every year because they normally do so with new editions. I'm so excited about their revisions in the middle school, I'm reworking my plan so that I can use it then with ds. Their elementary books from 1st-5th will cover all of American history, geography, and social studies topics such as economics and government. You can always add historical fiction or unit studies such as Time Travelers CDs to go along with the time period you are studying, too.

 

Bob Jones Science is some of the best out there, too, when it comes to textbooks. I've also used R.E.A.L. Science 4 Kids Chemistry for 1st-4th, Real Science Odyssey Life (secular but neutral at the lower elementary level), and Christian Kids Explore Earth and Space (was too much for the age of my son at the time). RS4K was great but short. The book only had 10 lessons. Real Science Odyssey Life was great at the level of my ds (2nd grade). It was one lesson a week and one experiment a week, (all were really fun). That fit it nicely with everything else.

[Mrs Twain]

I am a Christian and have used a variety of Christian and non-Christian materials. For young kids, I often edited on the fly as I read if there was something very far from my viewpoint and worldview. I still do that with my older kids at times.

 

From early elementary, I start explaining the different sides of various arguments (evolution vs. creation, old earth vs. new earth). Eventually my kids will hear people talking from one or the other viewpoint, and I want my kids to recognize the argument and why the person is saying what they are saying. For example, if they are watching a show on Animal Planet and the narrator says that such and such animal evolved from xyz, then I want my kids to know that this show supports evolution and the theories behind it. Then they can put the information in proper reference. If they read a book that says 300 millions years ago such and such thing happened, then they will know the author is an old earth +/- evolution person and holds to those theories.

 

Of course, I also tell them which sides of the arguments I think have the best evidence and which sides have the least evidence or evidence contrary. Even young kids can have intelligent discussions about these kinds of subjects, at least at a basic level.

 

One of the best books I have found to discuss evolution and subsequently other issues that follow from that is Yellow and Pink by (William Steig). It is out of print but it is quite worth buying a used copy or looking for it at your library.

[Donna A.]

One of the best books I have found to discuss evolution and subsequently other issues that follow from that is Yellow and Pink by (William Steig). It is out of print but it is quite worth buying a used copy or looking for it at your library.

 

 

GREAT book! I agree, it's worth searching for. Very unique. :thumbup:

[boscopup]

I am YE, literal 6 day creation. I use a mixture of secular and Christian materials. I like to present mostly neutral or YE materials at a very young age, but as they are older and able to think more critically, I add in more secular materials. My oldest is 8, but he has a good grounding in our beliefs and is able to read the first 100 pages of the Usborne Encyclopedia of World History without believing what it says. We discuss evidences a lot. I have some purely YE science books here that get into the nitty gritty of the evidences. So he's able to read all sides.

 

My middle son hasn't been exposed to as much OE/macro-evolution stuff yet. He's still young and he still believes what anyone says. I think he would get confused. So I edit on the fly sometimes. I will talk a little bit about the fact that some people believe xyz and we don't, but I haven't gone very deep into it yet with him. He's only just turned 6, so understanding the Theory of Evolution or the Big Bang Theory really isn't important at this age, IMO.

 

By high school, I'll expect my kids to be using secular science texts for AP test purposes, while still reading YE books on the side. At that point, they can look at the evidences themselves and think critically about both sides.

 

As far as history goes... For ancient history, I like a Christian view, but once it gets beyond the crucifixion of Jesus, I prefer a secular history text. So many of the Christian texts are denominational or have providential ideas ("God used Columbus to discover America") that I don't necessarily agree with. We are non-denominational/non-institutional Christians, so the "church history" stuff we only learn in the context of how it affects world history, not how our church got to where it is today (because we try to model the first century church in how our church is organized and worships). We differ so much from many of the leading Christian publishers, that it is just easier for us to use secular texts for middle ages to present.

[CatholicMom]

Everyone knows that Apologia science is 6-day creationist and bashes evolution. But here's the thing. They also explain the "other point of view" and why it's wrong. For instance, they explain why the earth can't be very old. I actually *do* believe the earth is very old, but I also don't believe in macro-evolution. I was able to easily exchange a few sentences and turn it around since they went on to explain the "other guy's reasons." (And I'm not good at improv!) So Apologia *does* often present both sides and you could use this to teach both.

 

However, I don't advocate leaving your child confused. I think parents should teach their kids what they believe to be true, even if they tell them the counter-arguments as well. Just sayin.

 

As far as history, that gets so complicated, I would go with a Christian curriculum... whatever most closely matches your worldview because history is *always* viewed through a lens. If you don't agree with someone else's worldview, you will not appreciate your kids learning their views about history.

[Amy M]

 

One of the best books I have found to discuss evolution and subsequently other issues that follow from that is Yellow and Pink by (William Steig). It is out of print but it is quite worth buying a used copy or looking for it at your library.

 

 

I agree with Donna A that you can't divorce presuppositions of curriculum authors from their subject material, so I am trying to choose those curricula for content subjects that best line up with my philosophy of education and my Christian worldview. I don't think you will find one that can successfully "mesh" secular and Christian, though some may just avoid the subjects altogether (the only example I can think of off the top of my head is SOTW 1 where she doesn't start with the creation of Adam or reference an evolution of man). I have chosen MFW as well, so there's my bias for you. :)

 

If you're interested, I reviewed Yellow and Pink on my blog earlier this month. :)

[lorenajhernandez]

I don't like the idea of my kids growing up in a bubble. Plus, we are very committed Christians, but not politically conservative, so most of the "Christian" curriculum didn't fit us any more than the secular curriculum. We used a Christian curriculum for first grade (three years ago) and were very disappointed. I have mostly used an eclectic approach to history, but this year started using SotW and another called "See Time Fly" along with "living books" and other supplements and we are using RS4K for science, which I believe is done by a Christian, but stays neutral. In the past I actually used the K12.com online class for science and sometimes history because I could not find anything else I liked.

[maize]

I personally think that a careful evaluation of your own positions and beliefs, and a willingness to discuss these frequently, is more important than which specific curriculum you pick. We have used both Christian and secular materials, I will be using mostly secular at the upper levels. My approach is to discuss different types of knowledge and their limitations, as far as I understand those. Revealed knowledge includes both written scripture and our own personal witness received through the Holy Spirit. Revealed knowledge is how I know that God is real, that He created the world, and that Jesus Christ is my Savior. The limitations of revealed knowledge include limited scope (God has not revealed everything He knows to us) as well as limits of human understanding--God reveals truth, but our comprehension and interpretation of that truth is subject to our own imperfect reasoning and understanding. Secular knowledge, such as that gained through scientific investigation and observation, also has limitations. One limitation is our ability to observe only our immediate moment in time--we can see what a geologic stratum looks like now, but we can't actually see what it looked like 7000 or 7,000,000 year ago. We can read an account of the Battle of Hastings written shortly after the battle, or we can set up an archeology dig to examine the remnants of an ancient village--but we can't actually go back and observe the battle or experience life in the village. For me, finding what appears to be a discrepancy between revealed knowledge and secular knowledge simply means that we have an incomplete understanding of one or the other--which means I still have room to grow and learn. Honestly, I don't think a complete reconciliation of the two is possible in this life; the gaps in our knowledge and understanding are too large. I am content to learn what I can and continue in faith when my understanding fails, trusting that I have all the truth that is necessary to this life and that the entire grand vista of truth that encompasses all knowledge can wait for a future time. I currently lean towards an old-earth, guided evolution view; I see the days in creation in Genesis as descriptions of general phases in the creation of the earth. I may be entirely off-base in this belief--if so, I don't think it will affect my standing before God anymore than the incorrect supposition that the sun revolved around the earth determined the spiritual standing of the millions of people who held that belief in the past. I will continue to rely on spiritual knowledge and experience to guide my walk in life and seek to draw nearer to God, and I will continue to delight in the exploration and discovery of the world around us and the human experience that I find through scientific investigation and the study and analysis of human events and thought.