Using Multiple Math Programs

[MASHomeschooler]

I'm reading through current and old threads here in all my spare time and finding it so helpful! I've noticed many people mention using multiple math programs, up to 5!, and am wondering how this works. We started hs'ing in October. Dd7 is doing Mammoth Math (2 subject books from level 5 based on the final test, then planning to continue with complete level 6 atm - thanks to someone here suggesting MM when I realized I had mis-placed her in RS E) and ds5 is doing Right Start C. Also still doing occassional RS games with dd at her request. I also just got LoF for them (introduced today) and they love it so far - starting dd at Fractions and ds at Apples, planning to do that once a week.

 

I keep reading about other things, and thinking about wanting to add depth/challenge/fun/etc rather than just speeding through the standard classes because they can. I've read this suggestion a number of times here and I agree with the idea of it. However, how does that really look? I assume you'd keep one as the main, and relegate the rest to supplementary? But with 4 supplements, how much are they really getting from any one? Or how much does it impact the main one? And does it make math seem less coherent? Or maybe more, as they see the same concepts from different angles?! But back to my main question - if you use 3-5 math programs concurrently, how does it work? How many hours per week do you spend on each program, and how well is that working for your dc? Thanks!

[MASHomeschooler]

Sorry; I forgot add - in what proportion do you use standard vs deep/offshoot curricula? I mostly feel like the main one should be standard, but then of course they'd still be going through the sequence quite quickly - possibly completing Calculus by 9th. Of course, I can argue myself in circles about whether that's desirable for kids who can and want to do so.

[Bang!Zoom!]

Mas, if you talk a bit about how you have your time slots running for math instruction, that might help some folks out there when they hop in to give advice. Some of the things might be how many minutes per day/week or some vision of how many times in a week you focus on it, or if you have a final yearly goal...just something to outline it a bit.

 

I only formally sit with math one day a week, and use multiple approaches/spines and such all through that day, so that's how I handle it here.

 

It seems to me that math though is one of those things that just can pop up again and again through all other subjects, and that is what fortunately/unfortunately pulls us deeper. It's just built into everything else there is if that makes sense.

 

It shows up in art, in history, in science..yadda yadda = and that's where we pick up the "next skills to focus on" and not necessarily something printed in a spiraling "this years math" spine layout.

[serendipitous journey]

RE how you use multiple programs well, I agree with one*mom that you end up pulling according to interest/need as you see it arise. Also a great deal depends on the parent, and on the child.

 

Right now I am using AoPS Prealgebra 3 days/week; MUS Algebra 3 days/week; Singapore 5A mental math daily; math Wrap-ups daily; and will probably add Singapore's MathSprints daily in Jan. (we're taking a break this month) Button has an intense personality and a gift for math that makes it hard to keep things going well around here; we can't be as laid back and fun-math as I'd like. Other children have other options; and other mothers I am sure have other skills to bring to bear!

 

Are you wanting to slow the child's forward progress? If so, to what end? it helps to understand these things. If you want greater understanding, that is one thing. If the child lacks the mechanical or other skills to move so quickly (we encounter this with Button's writing and his visual processing) that is another...

[MASHomeschooler]

Interesting; thanks. So on your one day, it sounds like you are basically on one topic, with you pulling different approaches and applications from your various sources? That does seem more coherent than I was imagining - and also like more work for you. :)

 

We are currently doing about 45 minutes a day each dedicated math most weekdays (scheduled for 5, but usually ends up being 4). My main initial goal was just to keep them from being bored, as that was one of the main reasons we left their old school. Now, having found that, my goals are expanding - real, mind-stretching challenge (in appropriate doses), deeper understanding of math concepts (including the when/where/why/how they're used), and a fluffier goal of appreciation/enjoyment/excitement about math. They have some of this last goal, although my ds has notably less after one quarter in ps, but I feel like with the right exposure they would both have much more.

 

I have noticed math cropping up everywhere, and sometimes they have too, but haven't considered taking that beyond the moment. Great idea. Thanks!

[MASHomeschooler]

Sorry; I'm not sure how to quote or edit. My previous comment replied to one mom, this one is to serendipitous.

 

I'm honestly not sure whether I want to slow them down, as in push the date for completing Calculus, for example, back from where it will be on their current paths. This is what I mentioned arguing myself in circles about. But whether that happens or not, I do want to take advantage of their abilities and mid-high interest to give them more depth and appreciation, explore offshoots and specific interests. I just have no idea how to do that. And, as a former math geek who is getting excited looking at all the supplements I see mentioned, I am having trouble figuring out which to bring in and how to use the combination of them. I hope that makes sense.

 

So, for your ds, about how much time do spend on each of the curricula you mentioned? And how is it going? Thanks!

[Reya]

We are doing Mammoth Math + RightStart with my little one.

 

With my older, we did RightStart + Singapore.

 

It took my son through the fall of 2nd grade to finish RSA-G and Singapore 1-6. So that was 2.5 years. We slowed down mainly so his math facts would become super-automatic.

 

My daughter looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooves worksheets. I don't think she's actually related to me, because my huge excitement about homeschooling was that my kids would NEVER have to do a worksheet. Both mine made me look dumb with that! :) So MM works better for a worksheet-focused girl. She's doing the MM1 Kinder review right now never having been "taught" kinder math and is doing great except with the names of some of the numbers above 10, and that's fine because by the time she DOES anything with the numbers, she'll have gotten that through RA.

[boscopup]

I've done multiple programs in the past. The last several weeks, we've just used Singapore only, having one regular math session and one CWP session. His actual seatwork is probably 20 minutes or less (Singapore lessons are often easy for him, even though some of the material is new). We work together on CWP at the white board, and that's his favorite time of day right now!

 

When we used Math Mammoth, I threw in some Singapore IP and CWP to break things up a bit and provide a different presentation. That worked pretty well. Again, we usually had the regular lesson, then later we'd have a session where we would do IP or CWP (just one).

 

I did a short time alternating Singapore and Beast Academy, but I finally dropped BA because the level really just wasn't a good fit for my son. He loves the guide books though, and he has free access to them. ;)

 

We also sometimes throw in Life of Fred, though we paused for a while to do the CWP.

 

I could not handle doing 3-5 math programs at one time. It would be too much math for me and my son. We like math, but we only have so much time, and I like to have a consistent "spine" program that we do daily. Anything else that gets added in for fun needs to be coming at it from a different angle or in some way enhancing our studies. My son doesn't really need much review (the review built into Singapore is plenty for him), so I also have to watch that I'm not just adding busywork with another program. So I like to find one main program that fits us well, and then add in other things for fun from time to time, just to give us something different. I can't swap around on a daily basis though, as it makes me a bit crazy. It works for some parents/kids though!

 

I may alternate two programs when we do prealgebra next year, but we'll see. I cannot predict how my son will do with the materials I've chosen, so we'll just see how it goes. If he likes AoPS Prealgebra but can't handle the hard thinking on a daily basis, we might alternate it with something a little easier to understand. Or I might switch to one program that I know he'll do well with and then try AoPS when he's older. I do prefer to stick to one text for the year if possible.

[Dmmetler]

We work in parallel-about 15-20 minutes each on 3-4 resources a day (plus whatever DD does for fun later) The resources have varied through the years, but that seems to work pretty well. Anything less than an hour, and DD seems to feel that "We didn't do ANY math". I don't worry about aligning what she's doing-if it turns out that she sees something in a "supplement" before she sees it in a core, well, that just means the core lesson turns into a review.

 

I keep expecting that we'll get to the point that one resource will take more time, but so far, that 15-20 minutes has been pretty standard-it takes her about that long to do 1-2 Fred lessons, or a handful of Key to Algebra pages, or a couple of Gold Bars on Mathletics, or a section in SM CWP, or a math contest problem, and so on. It really seems like that's about the time her brain is ready to focus on one specific kind of math, and that she'll simply do however much of it fits in that time before she's satisfied, whether it's one problem or half a textbook.

[Mélie]

This is our first year, so we've had to try some different things to see what works, but right now using several different programs works really well for my older son. I've basically just bought what I've read about on the forum, and somehow my son has enjoyed all of them. We're using Math Mammoth, Beast Academy, CWP, Primary Grade Challenge Math and LOF. We also have Teaching Textbooks and some math games that he uses during his computer time (30 minutes per day).

 

Every school day, we spend 20 or 30 minutes on one of his main programs - either BA or MM. For a while, we were just using BA for this, but I want to stretch 3C out until we get 3D, and we'll be moving to MM after that anyway. He picks which one he wants to do, and I don't try to line anything up. If we get to something that we've already covered well, we just skip to the word problems.

 

In the afternoon, if he wants to, we pick up either CWP or PGCM for 20 minutes or so. I've tried some math games, but he really just prefers to do lots of word problems, so we're going with that for now. He does LOF with his dad while they're waiting for dinner.

 

It looks like a lot to write out five math programs, but it doesn't feel like a lot when we're doing it.

[songsparrow]

The way I handle it is this: I teach math four days a week (our fifth day is reserved for outings). On three of those days, we work through our spine (Singapore Math). On the fourth day, we do extension activities. On this day, we focus on interesting subjects that won't necessarily be covered in the regular curriculum. I use books like Jacobs' Mathematics: A Human Endeavor, Penrose the Mathematical Cat, or we might do fun logic games or puzzles, or tesselations (the 3D tesselations book was interesting) - anything different and fun that will expand or deepen their knowledge in new ways.

 

Last year, we also used the Life of Fred books as a review - for the period of time it took her to work through each book, it replaced our SM lessons.

[Ritsumei]

We use 2, Math Expressions (a spiral program), and Miquan (not spiral). ME is what we started with, do it was our maIn, but Miquan is such a great fit for Hero that it's taken over. Miquan allows me to accommodate his intense interests, and also to switch to another topic when an interest has run its course & he needs something else for a while. ME is a bit more incremental, and by using the unit tests as pretests I can check to make sure we aren't leaving any glaring holes. I tend to do them alternately. We'll work in one of a bit, then the other. In my b

[Ritsumei]

Oops... Bumped the wrong button on my phone & posted early. Sorry!

 

In my planning book, I write down that we're going to do each program for a week, and then switch. In real life it doesn't turn out that tidy.

 

We also have great math stuff happen in other subjects as well. I bogged one in history recently that happened when he was on a fractions kick:

http://ritsumeithoughts.blogspot.com/2012/08/alex-geat-and-fractions.html

 

It's not formalized at all, but we do fun math topics periodically as well. We played around with Sierpinsky Triangles and learned a bit about fractals after he caught me reading an article that had a picture of a fractal and had to know what it was. We spent some time fooling with hexaflexagons, and had a good time with that (even though I still can't make them flex). I have my eye on a book about origami in K-8 math. These topics tend to grab our attention and shove regular math aside for a few days, and then we pick up where we left off.

 

[Bang!Zoom!]

Following up on Ritsumei's post above on spiral math vs. non spiral math - I just wanted to throw in this link to a fairly decent production and filming of Salman Khan. It's here:

 

He does pause to talk several times in here about what happens when kids are exploring math independently though the Khan Academy web. I'm just going to leave the link and dash.

 

We are both students of Khan here, she at her pace, and me at my own.

[MASHomeschooler]

I love this board! I can relate to so many things in the replies. And doing more programs while accelerating the main one seems much more doable now. Thanks, everyone!

 

Reya, I was also surprised to realize my daughter likes and son loves worksheets. Who would have thought? :( I think I'll add some MM for my son.

 

Boscopup, mine also don't need much review so that was also a concern of mine. I think doing fewer problems in the standard format and adding Challenge Math and LoF will help achieve the balance of adding depth and not being repetitious.

 

Dmmetler, mine also love math, especially my son. I initially scheduled 30 minutes, knowing they'd still be keeping an accelerated pace, but recently increased based on their desire. My son in particular could do math all day but this 45 seems good for now. Maybe we'll bump it to an hour as we add more.

 

Melie, songsparrow, and ritsumei, thanks, that gives me the pictures I was looking for and some ideas for how it might look for us.

 

One mom, thanks for the link. I'll watch it this weekend when I have more time. Khan is another thing I keep thinking about adding in; so many great possibilities!

 

I realized that, while I have found where they are learning new things, they learn it so easily they're still not being challenged. So that was what got me thinking about adding on. So thank you all for giving me some ideas on how to do that.

[MASHomeschooler]

That was supposed to be a smiley, not a frown. :)

[OSUBuckeye]

One*mom, I just spent an hour watching that video. I already loved the innovations Khan is bringing to replace the traditional educational model, and that video was so exciting (and hilarious!) The funding for Khan Academy is only two years old, and yet it has already started doing the things that classroom teachers have wanted for a while - sending a free tutor into the child's home, allowing self-paced learning rather than a one-sized-fits-some lecture, focusing on mastery rather than passing along students who struggle, supporting student acceleration, etc. Additionally, he wants to end the textbook industry and also create a bank of usable, free-source questions so that students have access to the most helpful practice questions available, based on analytic data.

 

I think I'm going to rewatch the video again tomorrow, it really was that good. :-)

[serendipitous journey]

Sorry; I'm not sure how to quote or edit. My previous comment replied to one mom, this one is to serendipitous.

 

I'm honestly not sure whether I want to slow them down, as in push the date for completing Calculus, for example, back from where it will be on their current paths. This is what I mentioned arguing myself in circles about. But whether that happens or not, I do want to take advantage of their abilities and mid-high interest to give them more depth and appreciation, explore offshoots and specific interests. I just have no idea how to do that. And, as a former math geek who is getting excited looking at all the supplements I see mentioned, I am having trouble figuring out which to bring in and how to use the combination of them. I hope that makes sense.

 

So, for your ds, about how much time do spend on each of the curricula you mentioned? And how is it going? Thanks!

 

-- and I'm sorry, I only just saw this!

 

Well, Button wasn't enjoying the program I posted, so I jettisoned it and now we're doing MEP, only MEP, for the next three months: it's Button's favorite of the math programs, and he's working well & hard in his school generally, and he's so good at math that I hate for him to be not enjoying it. He loved the conceptual bit of the AoPS preA, but the actual examples were worked in numbers that were too large for him to handle easily -- an expression with numbers in the thousands, for example (not round thousands, but things like 5349 or 1947) is just hard for him to hold in his head or to read easily. So the point of the book's problems, which is usually to see through the numbers to a simplifying principle behind them that makes your life arithmetically easier, was rather lost on him once we started getting into the book.

 

Singapore he just doesn't like much. He is always happy with their geometry sections but hates everything else.

 

At any rate, here's our method:

 

PREVIOUS PLAN:

1. 2" timed Math Sprints

2. about 5 - 10" mental math problems

(break for Toddler Reality, usually he did independent LA work for a bit)

3a. either 1 day's work of Singapore 5A text & workbook, doing 1/2 of the workbook problems or

3b. 30" - 40" reading through AoPS, working problems as we encountered them. We took turns reading the text; he usually was more engaged when he was the one reading it aloud.

 

CURRENT PLAN:

One MEP lesson/day, from 4A at the moment.

To accelerate:

* skip the Friday reviews

* skip every third lesson of what remains

* school math 6 days/week

 

 

This puts us a bit "behind" where we'd be otherwise, but I'm hoping that by the time we finish MEP Year 6 he'll be more cognitively ready for the AoPS stuff. If not I may keep him in MEP, compressed & with the "living book" enrichment we casually use. With him I don't worry too much about when he'll hit calculus per se, as making sure that he maintains a love of the subject: we suspect that he's extremely talented, and if he keeps enjoying it sooner or later that will be driving his work. We hope!!!

 

ETA: RE Khan: Button just hasn't glommed onto it for some reason....

[MASHomeschooler]

Thanks for coming back to answer that part. I did end up ordering a couple other things that look to increase fun and depth (LoF and Challenge) and am finalizing our schedule changes before we start back on Tuesday, so this is good timing. So far I've been lucky that they haven't disliked anything, but I do hope to continue to fuel their enjoyment, and to add appropriate levels of challenge. Thanks again!

[La Texican]

I read a quote, either here or on a blog, that you should treat math just like reading. A lot of people say things like, "I don't like math", or "math is hard", or even, "I love math," as if math is some foreign thing. Bedtime math (company who emails free daily word problems) has said that it's because we treat math like this alien, "other" thing. You read bedtime stories and your child learns literacy. People act like math is this magical thing, but nobody acts like people who CAN READ must be some kind of magicians. You read a little each day. You talk about it. You use multiple sources of reading material, from a book, to magazine, to a cereal box. You even write a note or a shoping list.

 

What it looks like in my house is that I read childrens mathbooks, blog posts, and forum posts. If I see something I want to show my kid I say, "Come here a minute." I show him math using a pencil and paper or some random manipulatives. I bookmark youtube lectures for him to watch and rewatch. I have some math workbooks that I want him to do for practice in handwriting numbers, and for reading and comprehending directions. I expect him to "do" the worksheets from those. I have some math textbooks that I show him selected pages from. I read them and show him the examples the books gave at some point when he's learning a new topic (the old singapore book series). Actually singapore books show more pictures and have the kid explain what's happening. The other day he sat down and read one of the Singapore books just like it was a regular picture book, answering a few problems on each page. I let him count it toward his reading, which I expect three times a week minimum. I have a few workbooks that I use as a problem generator. For example, he's new to division (so we don't do it very often, just consistantly over time so it becomes easier with practice). I have a Kumon Division book that I pulled one page out of and he does one problem every week or so. Also, there's living math books. Sadly our library is too far so we use much more internet than books. I bought the book "Apple Fractions". I learned how to make a piecrust from scratch (thanks fairfarmhand) while my son increased his reading and vocabulary and learned about fractions. He read the book while I made a pie. I think the fourth or fifth pie I nailed it. It came out awesome. He read as many of the weekly reader Math Monsters series (level pre-k to grade 2) as the library had in their non-fiction childrens section over the summer as his catalyst for becoming a fluent reader and also for learning about math concepts.

 

Now, when my son asks, "how do you write divided by?" I say, "do you remember what the math monster named split looked like?" Yes? Well, that's how you write divided by. Your kid has aged out of that series. Google on amazon, "Beanstalk, the measure of a giant", "The multiplying menace divides", "Zachery Zormer, shape transformer", then amazon will recommend you some more math stories to browse. Also check the non-fiction section of the childrens section of the library. That's where I found the Math Monsters series, which are totally fiction and cute.

 

I was interested in what cyber scholar said about practicing the numbers squared every day, and I liked the video of his kid where you could really see the mind working, so I started working on that. I wrote 2x2=? thru 7x7=? and gave my kid some frozen chocolate chips to add the answers with. When he was done though we split the loot because I'm not giving a five year old 7x7 pieces of chocolate chips in one sitting, maybe that many marshmallows. But I made a mistake and let him eat three pieces of apple pie once. I guess the sugar in there counts too because I had one rambunctious kid that day. ooh, lol

[happycc]

We are using multiple math programs.

 

I like to have a spine..a book that moves us forward.

I havent found one I like per se. I use the CA state textbook (Mcgraw hill/houghton mifflin)for standards basically to keep us moving forward.

I pick something in the book at least 3-4 times a week and present to child(ren) and then we do a couple of problems together and then they do a few problems on their own (even/odds)

 

Then they each do 30 minutes each of Singapore, CWP, Process Skills, Developmental math, Key to, Beast academy, Life of Fred, MEP a day (actually some of the books one day, the other books the other day) and topics are not necessarily related to the topic I presented earlier.

Plus one of my kids plays Dreambox and uses Teaching Textbook as well. She needs the extra work.

 

In the evening we play games from the Right Start games book or ones I make up or we play with blocks while watching Education Unboxed or Crewton Ramones or math U see videos.

 

i might be math killing my kids. I don't know but they are becomimg more accelerated in their math subject since I started homeschooling them. They recently went to a Star testing class put on by their homeschool charter school and the teacher there wanted to know what curriculum we used because the girls did pretty well in the class apparently. I couldn't tell her straight off because as you can see we use a ton.