Advisable to start WWS cold turkey? (starting at 5th & 7th grades)

[chocoholic]

I just recently discovered WWS and am thinking about starting it with my (soon to be) 5th & 7th graders next fall. I've always felt guilty for not following TWTM's recommendations...I do use some of her recommeneded curriculum choices, but have been going a different path the past 5 years (am in our last year of Classical Conversations). I really didn't even know WWE/WWS existed - I though the WTM's advice was too daunting for me to follow on my own. Now what I see is that WWE/WWS is step-by-step to learn the skills she describes in WTM.

 

Here I am looking at planning next school year with a soon-to-be 5th grader & 7th grader. We need to catch up on skills such as outlining, narrating, etc. Would anyone advise starting WWS cold turkey with a 5th & 7th grader? Am I understanding this correctly - WWS is not a grammar program, not a composition program, but more of a(n intensive 1-on-1) supplement to be used alongside a grammar & writing program?

 

Thanks for the advice.

[Erica in OR]

Funny you should say this—I just did exactly that this year. Both my 5th and 7th grader started WWS1. We've done narration over the years and the 7th grader went through the two outlining books recommended in TWTM previously. We've used Rod & Staff English as a combo grammar and writing program since 3rd grade, with First Language Lessons previously. This year we're doing just the grammar lessons in R&S and doing WWS1 as the writing program. To my knowledge WWS1 would not be alongside a writing program, rather it is the writing program.

 

It does go over the skills in a step-by-step manner and gives a lot of practice. I would think a 5th and 7th grader could head into it cold turkey. My 5th grader has needed much more hand-holding, but is still having success. It does take a significant amount of time for them (lessons are split into four days in a week, 36 weeks), but is a super solid program. I'd say go for it.

 

Erica in OR

[lewelma]

7th grade is fine. 5th grade may not be. Your 5th grader needs to be able to write a decent summary, and needs to be able to write 3 paragraphs of organized thinking in 2 days. If he meets these requirements, he should be able to do WWS1, but most people (there was a poll) think that WWS1 is best used in 6th.

 

Ruth in NZ

[....]

You're right, WWS is not a grammar program, but it is a writing program. You shouldn't have to supplement with another writing program either - it's fine by itself (in fact, I don't see how you would have time to supplement). If you look on YouTube, SWB has a video where she talks about WWS in detail. There is also a book called The Creative Writer that you can use to supplement WWS. TCW is not as intense as WWS and can be used on Fridays as a fun addition to the program. Don't forget that you also need the TM for WWS. SWB's "brain" is in the book (she says on YouTube).

 

IMO, it is an excellent program. But, I think all Peace Hill Press products are awesome (and excellent quality). :coolgleamA: Still patiently waiting for the rest of the high school-level history series. :toetap05:

 

My 5th grader made it about halfway through WWS and The Creative Writer this year before we stopped. We're going to finish both books next year (for 6th grade). I've decided to let my younger kids wait until 6th grade to begin WWS. I'm sure there are 5th graders out there who can do this (and my kids are not the best writers in the world), but I'm in awe that WWS would be written for 5th grade writing. It really takes alot to challenge my daughter. I'm impressed. LOL.

[Amira]

My boys did WWS1 last year in 5th and 7th grades and we're beta testing WWS2 now. They didn't do WWE (it wasn't around when my oldest was the right age), but they were comfortable with narrations. They also were comfortable with outlining, but it would have been okay if they hasn't been. My older son was an average 7th grader and WWS1 was challenging but doable. My younger son was a bright 5th grader and actually had an easier time than my older son, but he didn't have to overcome the not-reading-the-instructions problem my older son did.

 

WWS is a writing program. We are still using a separate grammar program, but I certainly don't feel a need for another writing program. I do have my boys write and outline in their other subjects, but WWS is plenty good enough on its own.

 

 

[chocoholic]

Thank you for the replies - I do appreciate it!

[....]

but he didn't have to overcome the not-reading-the-instructions problem my older son did.

 

Yes, this was actually one of the biggest problems my daughter had while using WWS. Sifting through the directions and explanations were very difficult for her. At some point in the workbook, she wasn't able to do this independently.

[Deniseibase]

My DD is doing WWS this year, in 7th grade. We attempted it last year, but it led to so many meltdowns that I dropped it because she clearly was not ready for the intensity of it. This year she grumbles about it, and has to be reminded to read directions and re-write rough drafts EVERY SINGLE TIME, but she can do the work and it's clearly improving her writing skills tremendously. We never did WWE with her and she is a reluctant writer.

 

She did need a lot of help at first with the summaries. I think having done WWE beforehand would have helped with that a lot. It was clear that she needed more practice writing summaries than WWS provided, so I had her start summarizing her history reading, one paragraph per section (each section is 4-6 pages, usually.) and she reads two sections per day. This caused tremendous grumbling and whining at first, as she could not find a main idea with both hands and a flashlight and a map :-) But it was just the practice she needed & just last week she was telling me that history was 'easy' because all she has to do is write two paragraphs. And her summaries make a lot more sense now.

 

So yes, it's entirely possible to start WWS with an older child who has not done WWE, even a child who is not a strong writer. Give it a try - it's a tremendous program. If you find as we did that some foundational skills is lacking, it's fairly easy to add more practice. WWS is a lot of work though, and I echo the sentiments of those who said this is the writing program, don't use it with another full writing program unless your child just LOVES to write a LOT :-)

[hollyandab]

I started my 7th grade boys on it, having never done WWE, and they seem to be doing ok with it. They whine about how long it takes, but that's probably because up until now, they've done mostly free writing/creative writing and copywork/dictation. They're a bit in shock that writing doesn't take 10 minutes! Woops! Oh well, they'll live!

[Chrysalis Academy]

My DD is doing WWS this year, in 7th grade. We attempted it last year, but it led to so many meltdowns that I dropped it because she clearly was not ready for the intensity of it. This year she grumbles about it, and has to be reminded to read directions and re-write rough drafts EVERY SINGLE TIME, but she can do the work and it's clearly improving her writing skills tremendously. We never did WWE with her and she is a reluctant writer.

 

She did need a lot of help at first with the summaries. I think having done WWE beforehand would have helped with that a lot. It was clear that she needed more practice writing summaries than WWS provided, so I had her start summarizing her history reading, one paragraph per section (each section is 4-6 pages, usually.) and she reads two sections per day. This caused tremendous grumbling and whining at first, as she could not find a main idea with both hands and a flashlight and a map :-) But it was just the practice she needed & just last week she was telling me that history was 'easy' because all she has to do is write two paragraphs. And her summaries make a lot more sense now.

 

So yes, it's entirely possible to start WWS with an older child who has not done WWE, even a child who is not a strong writer. Give it a try - it's a tremendous program. If you find as we did that some foundational skills is lacking, it's fairly easy to add more practice. WWS is a lot of work though, and I echo the sentiments of those who said this is the writing program, don't use it with another full writing program unless your child just LOVES to write a LOT :-)

 

I think this is excellent advice. My dd is on the young side among WWS users, so I can say from this point of view that it isn't really age that matters, but it *is* critical to have summary/narration skills down solid before you start. SWB always stresses that you don't want your dc doing two new hard things at the same time. WWS introduces plenty of new hard things - so if the student's summarizing/narrating skills are solid they will be able to focus on learning the new skills. If not they will struggle.

 

I also agree that the reading and following directions thing is an issue - that is my dd's major difficulty with WWS! But she has gotten much better at it as the program has progressed (we are in week 18) and as it is a critical skill for independent work, I am glad she is getting the chance to practice it!

[PeterPan]

I think later is better with WWS. I would get WWE (just the main book) and work them through the first few levels. Don't do it tediously, just lightly. Meanwhile get them outlining a little. Once a week in church or once every other week for a cool science magazine article you come across, just a little. Let those skills accumulate, and then when that's easy, THEN plunge into WWS. At that point, they should do really well. My dd is doing WWS in *8th* and it's turning out to be a really good time for her to hit it. She can do the assignments pretty well, without struggle or frustration. You can see her writing in the workshop/sharing area to see what you think. SWB ran her boy through it in 9th. I don't think there's any rush. If you get the prior skills easy (basic level outlining, ability to get a narration or their thoughts down, ability to TYPE, etc.) you'll have an easier go of it. It's kind of challenging anyway. I can't imagine doing it when ALL the skills are hard or at a challenge level.

[EKS]

I used WWS last year with my 10yo son. FWIW, you don't have to have them do it independently. Especially at first, presenting the material to them and talking through the exercises with them can help overcome any "cold turkey shock." Just adapt it to suit your family's needs and you should be fine.

[Abeille]

I started it this year with my 6th grade ds, without having used WWE beforehand. My ds was coming out of public school, where the emphasis seemed to be on writing quantity rather than on quality. He's doing very well with WWS, and I've noticed significant improvement in the organization of his writing. I'm genuinely impressed with this program and intend to continue on with SWB's writing series as it released.

[TheApprentice]

My 7th grade ds is doing WWS this year cold turkey, and is doing just fine. I think it's because he has the maturity. I don't think he could have handled it at 5th grade; but that's just him.

[chocoholic]

We are currently working through the outlining skills (Remedia publications) books she suggests and I ordered WWE teacher's manual so we can start light with that and use it throughout the rest of this year, heading straight into WWS next fall, being 7th & 5th greaders. Thank you all for your encouraging advice.