wy_kid_wrangler04 Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 So, ds 2nd grade is slowly progressing in phonics. He is about 1/3 of the way through Phonics Pathways (just learned about words like happy, funny, Donny) and is working on the -sh and -th beginning and ending then next will be -tch. I am THRILLED about his progress. Question is, this is not carrying through to his readers. He is still struggling through Bob Books set 2 (just on book 3 of set 2) This is basically cvc words and cvcc words. Mostly cvc still. I don't dare stop Phonics Pathways in order to do more reading from his readers (he can only handle so much in a day) but it seems like the readers should be getting easier for him. Also, he is still working through ETC 1 1/2 and 2. So, should I just keep going where he is in each? Is there something I can do (other than have him read as much as possible in a day-- which isn't much) that will help with fluency? Right now he is able to do 1/2-3/4 of a page in Phonics Pathway and 1 book read 2x or 2 books read once (depending on fluency) in his Bob Books (or other similar reader. We have Sonlight 1 books, he is 1/4 the way through book 1, and a few others) Do you think at this point it would be best to temporarily stop PP in order to work more on fluency with the readers then re-teach as needed in PP? Do you think I should keep on going in hopes that it will soon 'click' with his readers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottakee Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Maybe take a look at the I See Sam readers http://www.3rsplus.com or http://www.iseesam.com The first 2 sets are also free online to print out. These books give a LOT more practice with each new sound/word than the BOB books or other readers do. Many books teach the short a sound and expect the kids to read all CVC words with short a right away. The I See Sam books move more slowly but use the words over and over again and build slowly which really helps with fluency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StartingOver Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 (edited) NT Edited October 30, 2012 by StartingOver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KathyBC Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 We didn't begin working on fluency until ds was reading at about a 2nd grade level. Then we did fluency separately, using below grade-level material. Another way to work on word recognition outside of familiar material is to work with nonsense words. (We used this free phonics concentration game.) If it were me, I would continue with PP, addressing other issues separately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandamom Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 So, ds 2nd grade is slowly progressing in phonics. He is about 1/3 of the way through Phonics Pathways (just learned about words like happy, funny, Donny) and is working on the -sh and -th beginning and ending then next will be -tch. I am THRILLED about his progress. Question is, this is not carrying through to his readers. If I were working with him I'd stop with the forward progression of phonics and make sure that he can apply them when he reads. Knowing the rules doesn't help much if they can't apply it automatically. He is still struggling through Bob Books set 2 (just on book 3 of set 2) This is basically cvc words and cvcc words. Mostly cvc still. I don't dare stop Phonics Pathways in order to do more reading from his readers (he can only handle so much in a day) but it seems like the readers should be getting easier for him. Yes, it should be getting easier if he's really ready to move on. You are going to be much better off in the long run if you just work on the fluency and applying the rules on the cvc and cvcc words rather than keeping progressing. Finishing the program isn't the goal, creating a strong reader is. Also, he is still working through ETC 1 1/2 and 2. So, should I just keep going where he is in each? Again, just have him work through ETC 1.5 and 2 but then don't go on until he can read those comfortably within the books and apply them outside of the books. Is there something I can do (other than have him read as much as possible in a day-- which isn't much) that will help with fluency? Right now he is able to do 1/2-3/4 of a page in Phonics Pathway and 1 book read 2x or 2 books read once (depending on fluency) in his Bob Books (or other similar reader. reading for fluency is really important. You can pick u these workbooks by the same publisher called Starting Comprehension: Stories To Advance Reading & Thinking (use the Phonetically version and NOT visually) with establishing the goal of having him read through the ages fluently. I tend to be strict in allowing students to move forward until they can do it independently as that in my mind is the sign they are ready to move forward. Same thing in math...if a student can't add and subtract comfortably and independently they certainly aren't ready to start working with division and fractions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lecka Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 I have found my son to be very mastery-based with his reading. With him time is better spent going over a few, very few things b/c they can be retained. When going over what it seems like is a reasonable amount, he needs a lot less, or he will not retain. He just needs a lot of practice before he can retain. If he needs practice I would pause and do the practice. I think not all kids are as mastery-based, though. But for him, he gets a better feeling when he can master a really small amount and actually master it.... and it is how he will retain. He is a very "slow and steady wins the race" kind of kid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafiki Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 nt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Hey Michele, this is sort of an aside, but when you say he completed level 1 of Earobics, did he do the beginner, intermediate, and advanced? I've got dd doing the intermediate of foundations (the newer version of level 1) and ds doing beginner of course. Her activities are so much more sophisticated, I've been trying to figure out if starting at beginner eventually gets them there or if they have to go through beginner THEN intermediate THEN advanced... It's just starting to feel like a long slog, mercy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafiki Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 nt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairProspects Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 I tend to be strict in allowing students to move forward until they can do it independently as that in my mind is the sign they are ready to move forward. Same thing in math...if a student can't add and subtract comfortably and independently they certainly aren't ready to start working with division and fractions. Well, I actually disagree with this for LD students. I spent a lot of time talking to a very successful physicist last weekend who said that to this day he still can't subtract 7-4 easily, but that hasn't hurt him with regards to getting NASA and Google contracts in his field. Understanding the concept is different from having ready recall of facts. This might be not be true in phonics though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiguirre Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 He is still struggling through Bob Books set 2 (just on book 3 of set 2) This is basically cvc words and cvcc words. Mostly cvc still. How does he do with the first set of Bob Books? I remember Geezle had a tough time with the 2nd set of Bobs which are supposed to be the same level as Set 1, but there was something about them that made them much harder. I think we gave up and used the first grade Pathway readers and LLATL Blue readers for a while. Eventually, he did get over that hump and finished up all the Bob sets. Since I See Sam are free to download, I'd try those first if he can read Bob 1 but not Bob 2. If he can't read Bob 1 well, I'd go over them again. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Well, I actually disagree with this for LD students. I spent a lot of time talking to a very successful physicist last weekend who said that to this day he still can't subtract 7-4 easily, but that hasn't hurt him with regards to getting NASA and Google contracts in his field. Understanding the concept is different from having ready recall of facts. This might be not be true in phonics though. :iagree:I would not hold back a child, but I would most definitely work on the areas of weakness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 To the OP, if you have a visual learner on your hands, he may learn better with the word family approach. I have Phonics Pathways and while I agree that it is a good program I felt that going the word family way with my oldest would have worked better for him. We used Hooked on Phonics at first and then added in ETC and Horizons Phonics. These programs worked well together where as Phonics Pathways I don't feel would have suited our mix. Now, with my youngest, I will still be going the word family route, and will add Spalding along the way (probably in K). Hope you find what works :)! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lecka Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 (edited) I agree.... I see Sam moves slower than bob books. Even they are hard but easier than bob books. I have not used the other programs mentioned, but going from bob To I see Sam was good here. I have not seen Nora gaydos, I cannot compare with them, either. If they are easier than bob books they might be good to try. Edited October 31, 2012 by Lecka Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wy_kid_wrangler04 Posted November 2, 2012 Author Share Posted November 2, 2012 As you know from prior posts, I also have a developmentally delayed spectrum son. Just to give you an idea of his slow and steady pace: At age 6 he completed Get Ready for the Code A, B & C, Sing, Spell, Write, Read Level K, and Nora Gaydos Level 1. At age 7 he completed I See Sam Level 1, 2, & 3, Earobics level 1, and Nora Gaydos Level 2. At age 8 he completed Nora Gaydos Level 3 and SnapWords (Child 1st sight word approach to reading) A, B, C, & D. He'll turn 9 in two months and going through developmental changes and showing me he needs some melding time. During this time he suddenly has a desire to create so we are doing that, which is working on executive functioning, fine motor, and all sorts of good stuff. I have Nora Gaydos Level 4 and the rest of the SnapWords that we'll resume after the holidays. He had ST and PT through EI. He's had vision therapy, a full NP evaluation, and a full ST evaluation. There is not magic program or therapy that will speed up his development. My other two boys were later readers, one at age 7, the other at age 9, but they they went from 0 to 60. He's going to be on the later end, but I have confidence he will read (his scores all show that it will click as well) so it is what it is and I can't let it frustrated either of us. So I expose him to print in short bits regularly and focus on his strengths. Have you tried having him pick how he wants to work on reading? I have three different options, all acceptable to me, in ds's reading bin. He picks the one he wants to do that session. Progress is the goal, if he selects the activity, he's a more willing participant. It's hard, but sometimes you just can't plan and have to go with their flow. Yeah I have been reading through your posts a lot lately. I am going to get him I See Sam books when I order next. With those, should I just start at level 1? I know some programs you should start at the beginning. I will check out some of the other things you mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottakee Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Yeah I have been reading through your posts a lot lately. I am going to get him I See Sam books when I order next. With those, should I just start at level 1? I know some programs you should start at the beginning. I will check out some of the other things you mentioned. It is good to start with level 1 BUT instead of buying them I would google them as you can either read the 1st 2 sets free online (if he can easily read them) or print them off for free. That would save you money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafiki Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 (edited) nt Edited November 21, 2012 by one l michele This was for the OP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sncstraub Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 There is also an I See Sam App if you have an iPad. I have been trying to find the app for my iPad but can't locate it. Is it called something else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafiki Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 nt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sncstraub Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 Thanks. Unfortunately, iTunes is saying it is no longer available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafiki Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 nt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafiki Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 nt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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