If you house church or ever have...

[Mom22ns]

would you tell me about it?

 

The church that we've been members of for the last 14 years just imploded. Our pastor, music minister and youth minister have all resigned in the last 5 days. Our music minister was just here, he gives guitar lessons to ds. He said he is thinking of starting a house church. We love this guy and think he is an awesome Christian leader, so no issues there. We are also feeling very church "homeless" right now, but I have never been a member of a church with less that 400 people in regular attendance.

 

I'd love to hear anything you can tell me about a house church. What did you do? How did it work? What did you like about it? What didn't you like? What else should I have asked that I didn't? :001_smile:

 

If you aren't comfortable sharing in the forum and want to pm me, that is fine too!

 

TIA

[Nestof3]

I love house church. In fact, we haven't found a place to meet with others since we left.

 

We sang songs, various men would teach, and then we would discuss. We spent the rest of the day eating and talking while the kids played.

 

I found the leadership and structure very Biblically sound -- no single leader, no disputes about conventions, and all the other complicating aspects.

 

We had to leave because people came in and became very power-hungry, slowly making it just like any other organized establishment.

 

We also got tired of the doctrine that not being quiverfull is the equivalent of having the spirit of abortion.

 

We grew tired of every meeting being a time for people who were quiverfull to discuss how they didn't have the time to get everything done, how they didn't have time to educate their children (ex. 12-year old couldn't read because the mom didn't have time to teach her), how they never had enough money. We grew tired of the personal fiscal irresponsibility. One day we were buying tires for a family who said they couldn't afford tires. Next thing you know, they were building a new house on several acres of land and installing a swimming pool. Statements like, "It's better to be self-employed and on government assistance than work for someone else."

 

We grew tired of people coming in up to an hour late every Sunday because they couldn't get their family there on time.

 

Essentially, we didn't fit in.

 

I miss the kids for our kids. They were the loveliest children we've been around.

Edited October 4, 2012 by nestof3

[Jean in Newcastle]

Not a house church, but our church only has 20 - 30 people on a Sunday. My dh is the pastor. It's sort of like a small town - there is a smaller pool of people to get to know. That can be good and bad. It's good because everyone in the church really is praying for each other. It's bad because there is a smaller pool of people from which to find friends and sometimes you might not really click with every one of those 30 people. But it's good because you just might have to learn what it really means to love each other in the church.;) And it can be good and bad in that the church really needs every single person to step up and be a part of things in order to keep things going - not in a running big programs kind of way but in the little things that help us to reach out to each other and help each other to worship God.

Edited October 4, 2012 by Jean in Newcastle

[milovany]

We were part of a home-church startup once with Clay and Sally Clarkson (the idea wasn't necessarily home church, although that's how we started out, but rather family-based church). It seemed so very lovely in the beginning. There were about 8 families in the core group. Several had moved to the area within the previous several months, including ourselves, and we felt like God was bringing us all together to get this "thing" going. We got very connected and enjoyed worshiping God together.

 

Unfortunately, it didn't last and it was sad to see it fade away. There was one main Type A personality in the group, and when he up and left with very little notice, everything started to fall apart. Part of that was because of some of the weaknesses inherent in the group (not many willing to do more, not many willing to be leaders, too many opinions on the way things should be, etc.) and part of it was the way this personality left (leaving behind a lot of hurt people).

 

When a local church's impetus is personality or a program -- which is very common -- there's the potential for a lot of conflict.

Edited October 4, 2012 by milovaný

[staceyobu]

I love house church. In fact, we haven't found a place to meet with others since we left.

 

We sang songs, various men would teach, and then we would discuss. We spent the rest of the day eating and talking while the kids played.

 

I found the leadership and structure very Biblically sound -- no single leader, no disputes about conventions, and all the other complicating aspects.

 

We had to leave because people came in and became very power-hungry, slowly making it just like any other organized establishment.

 

We also got tired of the doctrine that not being quiverfull is the equivalent of having the spirit of abortion.

 

We grew tired of every meeting being a time for people who were quiverfull to discuss how they didn't have the time to get everything done, how they didn't have time to educate their children (ex. 12-year old couldn't read because the mom didn't have time to teach her), how they never had enough money. We grew tired of the personal fiscal irresponsibility. One day we were buying tires for a family who said they couldn't afford tires. Next thing you know, they were building a new house on several acres of land and installing a swimming pool. Statements like, "It's better to be self-employed and on government assistance than work for someone else."

 

We grew tired of people coming in up to an hour late every Sunday because they couldn't get their family there on time.

 

Essentially, we didn't fit in.

 

I miss the kids for our kids. They were the loveliest children we've been around.

 

Wait... so did you love it or hate it?

 

We went to a house church for a while. I was pregnant and working with a toddler. I felt like there weren't enough people to share the work. I also felt like maybe it was a group that was trying to do too much for its size. There weren't enough kids for my kids to have the friends that they have now in a church of 100+. It seemed very dependent on a few families being willing to keep it going. It was also hard for the family that typically hosted. They had a new baby with lots of medical issues in the midst of things and I think it became a burden for a while.

 

I'm not saying don't do it... I'd just think through the logistics a lot before doing it. The other thing is that with a small group of people like that, you will feel worse to drop out and go somewhere else because you will be so needed there... so think through it first!

[Esse Quam Videri]

Our experiences with home churches have been incredible. As long as you are with a group of like minded, authentic believers, it should be fruitful for all involved.

[Nestof3]

Loved the theory, loved the format, loved the plurality, loved the kids.

 

Hated the cultish thoughts and fiscal irresponsibility.

 

Wait... so did you love it or hate it?

 

We went to a house church for a while. I was pregnant and working with a toddler. I felt like there weren't enough people to share the work. I also felt like maybe it was a group that was trying to do too much for its size. There weren't enough kids for my kids to have the friends that they have now in a church of 100+. It seemed very dependent on a few families being willing to keep it going. It was also hard for the family that typically hosted. They had a new baby with lots of medical issues in the midst of things and I think it became a burden for a while.

 

I'm not saying don't do it... I'd just think through the logistics a lot before doing it. The other thing is that with a small group of people like that, you will feel worse to drop out and go somewhere else because you will be so needed there... so think through it first!

[milovany]

Our experiences with home churches have been incredible. As long as you are with a group of like minded, authentic believers, it should be fruitful for all involved.

 

:D You couldn't have gotten much more likeminded or authentic than the group we were a part of. We were all homeschoolers, we were all open to having a large family (although not required of course!), we were all pretty conservative, we were all evangelistic protestant Christians, we all thought that home church was the NT model (at the time, we no longer do) , we all believed in male leadership in the home and church, etc. and yet our family/home-based fellowship group imploded on the basis of personality and preference. I know it works for many, but there are a lot of times it doesn't work, too.

 

Now we are in a situation where we worship in a highly liturgical, institutional church, with very authentic but UN-likeminded believers, and we love it. We're a pretty diverse group of people, but we're gathering around the Holy Table / Eucharist, where all become one in Christ, and this is the fellowship we'll never leave.

[*********]

Our experiences with home churches have been incredible. As long as you are with a group of like minded, authentic believers, it should be fruitful for all involved.

 

This is my experience as well.

 

We home church. In fact, we're going to fellowship on Saturday. There will be several families there. We're having fellowship and a meal. I can't wait!

 

It's such a blessing to me. Really, it's fantastic. I am personal freinds with the people I fellowship with. We are involved in each other's lives. We ladies feel comfortable going through each other's fridges. :tongue_smilie: It's like having a huge family.

 

It's such a blessing.

[Mom22ns]

That is really encouraging Bethany! Thank you all or sharing. It gives me more to think about.

 

Can any of you tell me what a typical Sunday looks like for your home church or one you've been in? I'm worried that my kids would miss the opportunities that our youth group provides... fun social times, sleep overs, lock-ins, retreats, mission trips. Do your older kids get any opportunities like those?

[bnbacademy]

We had a similar experience. After church imploded, we joined a few members as a house church with a designated pastor. While the pastor was a part it was a good experience. When he moved away, and was not replaced, the group turned into a socializing activity, and we missed the Biblical teaching and worship. The group dynamic changed toward a generalized church cynicism, and the group was less interested in building a home church.

[Shamzanne]

I am part of a Christian community that meets in a house. We may be different than what you are looking for but I'll share what our worship time looks like. We take turns cooking for our Sunday meal (we cook every six weeks in groups of four or five). We eat together at 5:30, break bread at the beginning of the meal, then clean up.

 

The adults gather in a large circle of chairs in a large living room. We have one person who leads the service, reading scripture and prompting musicians, etc.

We sing songs

We read all the lectionary scriptures

We have a time of sharing appreciations and encouragements as a way to be aware of how God is at work in and among us

We share thankfulnesses to God.

We have prayer

We share the cup with one another.

We pass the peace with a hug

We have a message from our pastor.

 

We clean up and have dessert next door (at my house!). If you have any questions feel free to message me. I love my church and desperately needed something different from a regular church. We are not very pious and have no real rules outside of being committed to loving one another as the scriptures dictate.

 

Problems in house church type situations often can be traced back to power issues. We are committed to peace with one another and mutual submission which I think has helped us stand this long (25 years+).

[mazakaal]

Not exactly a house church, more of church in our home, but when the floors were being re-done in the hall where we met we moved services into our home. It was supposed to be for a month, but everyone enjoyed it so much that we remained in our home for about 6 months, until it got so big that we had to go back to renting the hall. It worked great for us because it brought a more homey feel to church services, though the set-up was the same as it had always been, kids stay in service for worship then go to a Sunday school class (in our homeschool room) for the youngers and youth group (in dh's office) for the olders, and dh would do a Bible teaching for the adults.

 

I think it could certainly work for you if you like the guy who would be leading and agree with him doctrinally and in style of service. You may as well give it a try anyway since you haven't found another place to worship yet.

[VaKim]

I'll only add that you need to be wary of having one single leader who makes the decisions and does all the teaching. In such a situation, no matter how godly and "nice" and "good" he is in the beginning, human beings can quickly let things go to their heads and become quite controlling. Speaking from sad experience.

[*********]

That is really encouraging Bethany! Thank you all or sharing. It gives me more to think about.

 

Can any of you tell me what a typical Sunday looks like for your home church or one you've been in? I'm worried that my kids would miss the opportunities that our youth group provides... fun social times, sleep overs, lock-ins, retreats, mission trips. Do your older kids get any opportunities like those?

 

Well, we actually tend to have fellowship meetings as much on Saturday as we do on Sunday. :001_smile: No one day of the week is more important to us, at least our family and the ones we fellowship with. No one tries to "keep the Sabath" on Sunday.

 

Um, some things to consider...

 

The most important thing is that the music minister who is talking about starting a house church MUST have a pluality of elders around him as well. You do NOT want one man running the show, so to speak. We had a fellowship like that, and it blew up big time. Now, we have a fellowship where everyone is involved/important, and that's really what you need.

 

Regardig the chldren. It's going to be different for them at a house church than an instituional church, for sure. For example, we don't do things like sleep overs and lock-ins. But the children really are good friends. We see the families with children on a regular basis, and my boys have been able to devlop good friendships with thei kids, both girls and boys. (at my boy's ages, there is no worry about crushes and what not, and they enjoy being freinds with kids of all ages and both genders.)

[Nestof3]

Yes, there is always the potential to become power-hungry. This is what we dealt with. Three men pretty much supported each other to become elders. They took over teaching, music, leading in prayer, etc.

 

One of them was vet power hungry. He was much older than I, so I called him Mr. Blahblah. He corrected me and said he was either to be called Firstname or Dr. Blahblah. I told him it would be first name since he wasn't my doctor (he's in the psychology field). That was rather mild, but we visited him in the hospital, and when the doctor came in and called him Mr. Blahblah, he said, "Dr. Blahblah."

 

One time my husband when to him to discuss something he saw as being wrong in the church, and the man told him he refused to discuss it because it had to do with one of the potential elders and my husband was essentially not high enough.

 

Well, we actually tend to have fellowship meetings as much on Saturday as we do on Sunday. :001_smile: No one day of the week is more important to us, at least our family and the ones we fellowship with. No one tries to "keep the Sabath" on Sunday.

 

Um, some things to consider...

 

The most important thing is that the music minister who is talking about starting a house church MUST have a pluality of elders around him as well. You do NOT want one man running the show, so to speak. We had a fellowship like that, and it blew up big time. Now, we have a fellowship where everyone is involved/important, and that's really what you need.

 

Regardig the chldren. It's going to be different for them at a house church than an instituional church, for sure. For example, we don't do things like sleep overs and lock-ins. But the children really are good friends. We see the families with children on a regular basis, and my boys have been able to devlop good friendships with thei kids, both girls and boys. (at my boy's ages, there is no worry about crushes and what not, and they enjoy being freinds with kids of all ages and both genders.)

[Mom22ns]

One time my husband when to him to discuss something he saw as being wrong in the church, and the man told him he refused to discuss it because it had to do with one of the potential elders and my husband was essentially not high enough.

 

:001_huh:

 

I guess that just goes to show people are people everywhere, in large churches, home churches or outside of church.

 

Right now the idea is just being discussed and models considered. These warnings are a great help to me.

[*********]

Yes, there is always the potential to become power-hungry. This is what we dealt with. Three men pretty much supported each other to become elders. They took over teaching, music, leading in prayer, etc.

 

One of them was vet power hungry. He was much older than I, so I called him Mr. Blahblah. He corrected me and said he was either to be called Firstname or Dr. Blahblah. I told him it would be first name since he wasn't my doctor (he's in the psychology field). That was rather mild, but we visited him in the hospital, and when the doctor came in and called him Mr. Blahblah, he said, "Dr. Blahblah."

 

One time my husband when to him to discuss something he saw as being wrong in the church, and the man told him he refused to discuss it because it had to do with one of the potential elders and my husband was essentially not high enough.

 

Dawn, how awful! Yes, you for sure can have power struggles in a house church. That's why it's so imortant to have everyone "on the same page" about the fact that no ONE person leads, etc.

[Mom22ns]

The most important thing is that the music minister who is talking about starting a house church MUST have a pluality of elders around him as well. You do NOT want one man running the show, so to speak. We had a fellowship like that, and it blew up big time. Now, we have a fellowship where everyone is involved/important, and that's really what you need.

 

Can you tell me more about your elder structure and how you make sure everyone is involved/important? Since we are just in the formative stages, I'd love to know more about an model that is working!

[*********]

Can you tell me more about your elder structure and how you make sure everyone is involved/important? Since we are just in the formative stages, I'd love to know more about an model that is working!

 

That's the thing. There isn't a 'structure' like there is in instituional church. It will just become evident (as you continue to home fellowship) who the elders of your gathering are.

 

As far as making sure everyone's involved/important, I don't really know how to answer. I mean, the chruch IS my family; we are just involved in each other's lives to whatever extext we can be. For example:

 

I know a brother who does chimney sweeping. He'd be more than happy to sweep the chimney of someome in our fellowship, and that brother would have to FORCE him to take payment for it. :tongue_smilie: Since that's what he does for a living to support his family, he should be paid. But that's what it's like; a huge nest of a family, helping each other out in any way we can when we can.

[Nestof3]

Dawn, how awful! Yes, you for sure can have power struggles in a house church. That's why it's so imortant to have everyone "on the same page" about the fact that no ONE person leads, etc.

 

I know. We were one of the families that started it. We left for a while because one man started insisting we needed to find a church's authority to be under. My husband and I didn't feel good about the guy, and then it came out that he was a pedophile who even abused his own kids on some level. His wife refused the allegations because she didn't want her financial security compromised. He was the freak I mentioned here that said he wasn't sure spanking your wife was unbiblical.

 

We returned when he left. Things were fine except the lateness and fiscal issues I mentioned. Then, the Doctor stepped in board with his family who used to be in music ministry. Then it became very much about who had most control and ability based on ministry experience.

 

By that time the place was oozing with clarity that we were different. We shared a praise report about paying our house off, and one man got up and quoted how some may trust in horses and some in chariots, but they would trust in God. It was okay to praise about money being given anonymously to the families (not really shocking since they always let everyone know how they never had enough money despite buying land and building a 4,000 sq ft house), but our happiness was met with rebuke.

[Mom22ns]

I'm sorry Dawn. That would be infuriating. The right group of people is clearly critical!

[*********]

I know. We were one of the families that started it. We left for a while because one man started insisting we needed to find a church's authority to be under. My husband and I didn't feel good about the guy, and then it came out that he was a pedophile who even abused his own kids on some level. His wife refused the allegations because she didn't want her financial security compromised. He was the freak I mentioned here that said he wasn't sure spanking your wife was unbiblical.

 

We returned when he left. Things were fine except the lateness and fiscal issues I mentioned. Then, the Doctor stepped in board with his family who used to be in music ministry. Then it became very much about who had most control and ability based on ministry experience.

 

By that time the place was oozing with clarity that we were different. We shared a praise report about paying our house off, and one man got up and quoted how some may trust in horses and some in chariots, but they would trust in God. It was okay to praise about money being given anonymously to the families (not really shocking since they always let everyone know how they never had enough money despite buying land and building a 4,000 sq ft house), but our happiness was met with rebuke.

 

Oh Dawn, that all sounds just awful.

 

I've got my own 'housechurch gone bad' stories as well.

 

Just like with the institutional church, you have to be careful who you fellowship with. :grouphug: