Heather in VA Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 How are you managing to get high school requirements as well? I was looking at our local community college which has an extensive number of associate degrees available and you can start as soon as you are 16. That's great. But they are 16 - 17 credit hours per semester and all topic specific. That is a full load and doesn't include basics like history, science, foreign language etc. - at least depending on which associate degree you choose. Some will have science but not the basic three. A few have some math but then no history, literature etc. It just seems to me that you'd have to do so much at home as well that you would absolutely drown your student or you'd end up with an associate's degree but not really a well-rounded high school education. Are others finding this? Heather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbara H Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Is your student planning on transferring to finish a four year degree? If so I would focus on the Associate of Arts or Associate of Sciences degree as these will have the most general courses that are most likely to transfer. If they are looking more to a technical two year degree you will run into more difficulty with high school requirements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Not everyone has specific high school requirements that they need to meet. If their student finishes an AA or AS degree, they call high school done and graduate them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hillfarm Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I struggled to wrap my brain around this during the past summer, since dd is starting 9th grade and we plan to do a dual enrollment later on at a cc so she would graduate with both a high school diploma and an associate's degree at the same time. First, I had to find out how the high school translated the cc classes for their hs credits so I could be dealing with equivalent units, then I needed to identify exactly what credits and how many were needed for hs graduation. Then I started messing around with sticky notes on a white board. I broke things down into half credit units so that I could manipulate two semesters independently of each other. I made columns that each represented one semester, two columns per school year. For example, I put up 8 sticky notes to represent 4 English credits, .5 credit each, or 1 per semester, 2 per year. I looked at the cc courses that could satisfy an English credit and penciled them in on the notes placed in the cc semesters. That helped me to see if I needed to add an extra English class or two during the two years dd would still be homeschooling (9th and 10th). Etc... I did this for each of the required credit hours for hs. It helped me to see where the holes were and to manipulate things around easily. The bottom line was that for dd to be able to graduate from hs, I had to have a class listed on each of the sticky notes. In order for her to get the associate's, I had to have all the cc required courses listed. Some of the classes, and I'm not going to tell dd which ones yet, will count in three different applications, toward hs graduation, toward an associate's degree, and toward her major and bachelor's degree. All this stacking and double duty nearly blew my mind, but I eventually got it all figured out. Now she is less sure of what she wants to major in for university, so I may have to go back to the drawing board again. Hopefully it will be easier this time around! HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkateLeft Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 (edited) My daughter is in her second year of full-time dual enrollment. She is not pursuing an associates degree, because some four year colleges would consider her a transfer student, rather than an entering freshman, and we didn't want that. However, she is planning her coursework to complete the MN Transfer curriculum, which is the set of requirements that would enable her to transfer to any public college in the state, and some private schools, with all of the general education requirements completed. The MN Transfer curriculum is the basis of the associate's degree requirements also. I also have a set of graduation requirements established that I want her to meet. (Our state doesn't have graduation requirements for homeschoolers.) We haven't had an issue with getting both my graduation requirements and the MN Transfer curriculum completed. The general education requirements that make up the bulk of AA/AS and MN transfer curriculum credits are nearly all applicable to high school credits. My graduation requirements look a bit like this: 4 credits of English, math, science, and social science, at least 2 credits of foreign language, 1 credit of fine art and 1 year of PE. I break each of those down a bit more. For example, social science must include a semester of geography, government, economics, and a year of world history and US history. I also require one writing class and one literature class each year. Last year, she took freshman composition in the fall semester and British literature in the spring semester. So that met my graduation requirements (an English credit consisting of composition and literature study), and the MN transfer curriculum requirement. She ended up with 1 high school credit for each course. Per my state education code, I award a full high school credit for any semester long college course that consists of more than 3 units. The key is to match the courses required for the transfer curriculum or AA to the courses required for graduation. For example, she's currently taking US Politics. That meets our high school government requirement, as well as the MN Transfer curriculum requirement. The course names might not match exactly, but the correlations are pretty easy to make. Edited to add: She takes care of all of this herself. She registers for classes on her own, and I just facilitate and offer advice. I tell her what she needs to graduate from our homeschool, and she manages that with what she needs to complete the transfer curriculum, even though she's not actually applying to any public in-state schools. Edited August 31, 2012 by sailmom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbmamaz Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 My daughter did this as a public school kid. She did not end up with the degree because one semester we had trouble scheduling classes due to being late, and another semester she got really ill and had to drop most of her classes. She did some additional classes after a gap year, and transferred in to VCU 1 credit short of a Junior. We had to work with the school district for graduation. What we chose to do was drop from the advanced diploma to the standard diploma. Since she had taken algebra 1 in middle school and taken geometry and algebra II in high school already, she was actually already done with her math credits (because she had passed the high school Algebra 1 SOL exam). She chose her college credits based on what she would need for a graphic art degree. She needed a history and a government class, which she took independent study through the high school. She was able to count her 2 english classes as 1 year of high school english, but took another high school english class at night school. She also took 1 science class at her regular high school (and drivers ed!) It was definitely a heavy load, but she wanted it, so she rose to the challenge. If you have any idea where she wants to go for college and what she wants to major in, it makes the most sense to start there and work backwards. Even if you use the community college guaranteed transfer, you have to make sure you take the right courses for the specific school/program you want to transfer in to. But yes, if you want to do the dual enrolled and get an associates degree, you might not be able to follow TWTM schedule, or your planned schedule, just as we dropped from the advanced to the standard diploma. it didnt get in the way of getting in to the program she wanted to get in to, though. I admit it was painful to let her stop taking math, but I felt it was time to let go of my plans to let her follow her own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 My dc did community college instead of high school. I don't know why a "well-rounded high school" is important when the dc are working on an AA. :confused: If necessary, I'd award a high school diploma on completion of the AA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoponl Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 My ds's chosen university recommended that he NOT get an associate's degree while in high school, because of its effect on scholarship eligibility. He can still come in as a freshman, regardless of how many CC credits he has, as long he doesn't take *any* CC credits after officially graduating high school and doesn't get an AA certificate. The AA degree would force them to recognize him as a transfer student, and then he would only be eligible for a two-year instead of a four-year scholarship. ~judi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-FL Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 How are you managing to get high school requirements as well? I was looking at our local community college which has an extensive number of associate degrees available and you can start as soon as you are 16. That's great. But they are 16 - 17 credit hours per semester and all topic specific. That is a full load and doesn't include basics like history, science, foreign language etc. - at least depending on which associate degree you choose. Some will have science but not the basic three. A few have some math but then no history, literature etc. It just seems to me that you'd have to do so much at home as well that you would absolutely drown your student or you'd end up with an associate's degree but not really a well-rounded high school education. Are others finding this? Heather For our dd (both), we went for the basic AA for University Transfer. To fulfill the "Humanities" blanks, we chose classes that would also fulfill the "basic knowledge" slots she needed. For example: #1 had already had US History at home so she didn't need to pick that as her cc Humanities. #2 however, had not had history at home, so she took it at the cc. Since the AA requires 2 credit level maths, (College Algebra or Statistics and above) the 4 credits required for hs would be covered to get them prepped for that level of cc maths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 My ds's chosen university recommended that he NOT get an associate's degree while in high school, because of its effect on scholarship eligibility. He can still come in as a freshman, regardless of how many CC credits he has, as long he doesn't take *any* CC credits after officially graduating high school and doesn't get an AA certificate. The AA degree would force them to recognize him as a transfer student, and then he would only be eligible for a two-year instead of a four-year scholarship. ~judi It isn't that a high school-aged young person must get the AA; it's that there doesn't have to be a "meaningful high school experience." In Caifornia, a transfer student from a community college would only need a two-year scholarship, not four, since he'd be entering college as a junior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in VA Posted September 1, 2012 Author Share Posted September 1, 2012 My ds's chosen university recommended that he NOT get an associate's degree while in high school, because of its effect on scholarship eligibility. He can still come in as a freshman, regardless of how many CC credits he has, as long he doesn't take *any* CC credits after officially graduating high school and doesn't get an AA certificate. The AA degree would force them to recognize him as a transfer student, and then he would only be eligible for a two-year instead of a four-year scholarship. ~judi This is a concern for me. The one thing that an AA degree would do for her is guarantee admissions to all of our state schools which would counteract quota problems. Our big schools like UVA, William and Mary, VATech etc have quotas of how many students they can accept from our area making some of them harder to get into than much more competitive schools. They often put more value on the IB/AP schools in our area then a homeschooler. But I don't want to just skip high school in favor of community college. I believe high school is a time for a broad base of learning and reading rather than specific interest focus. I think you could potentially miss that by specializing too soon. I never looked into this with my oldest because I knew she didn't want to go to a huge state school so that benefit was of no interest to her. My middle might be more likely to attend one of those. Heather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbmamaz Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 This is a concern for me. The one thing that an AA degree would do for her is guarantee admissions to all of our state schools which would counteract quota problems. Our big schools like UVA, William and Mary, VATech etc have quotas of how many students they can accept from our area making some of them harder to get into than much more competitive schools. They often put more value on the IB/AP schools in our area then a homeschooler. But I don't want to just skip high school in favor of community college. I believe high school is a time for a broad base of learning and reading rather than specific interest focus. I think you could potentially miss that by specializing too soon. I never looked into this with my oldest because I knew she didn't want to go to a huge state school so that benefit was of no interest to her. My middle might be more likely to attend one of those. Heather Yeah, its hard because really, the quality of education at the CC is not likely to be as high as what you can give her at home. And UVA definitely has strict requirements for what CC classes you need to take (and i'm not even sure all of their programs honor the guaranteed acceptance? or maybe their gpa requirement is higher?) I saw them at a homeschool highschool to college conference once (by VA Homeschoolers). I've heard that SWB's kid? grandkids? were not accepted at W&M despite her working there, and I heard another story of them not being particularly home-school friendly. Ugg, planning is so annoying! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in VA Posted September 1, 2012 Author Share Posted September 1, 2012 Yeah, its hard because really, the quality of education at the CC is not likely to be as high as what you can give her at home. And UVA definitely has strict requirements for what CC classes you need to take (and i'm not even sure all of their programs honor the guaranteed acceptance? or maybe their gpa requirement is higher?) I saw them at a homeschool highschool to college conference once (by VA Homeschoolers). I've heard that SWB's kid? grandkids? were not accepted at W&M despite her working there, and I heard another story of them not being particularly home-school friendly. Ugg, planning is so annoying! Well NOVA (our community college) has a setup with all the major schools that anyone getting an associate degree at NOVA is guaranteed admissions. I actually don't know anyone who has done it personally so I'm not sure about any 'gotchas'. My oldest daughter's two best friends just started college (VATech and UVA) and both were public school but I am already seeing a radical difference in how college was when I went and how it is now. Kids can't get the classes they need. They aren't allow an advisor until they take a certain number of required courses in that "college" to consider them that major, but they can't get off the wait list of those required courses without an advisor. It's really crazy some of the stories coming from them just one week into classes. So I can see how just being guaranteed a spot in the school might not do them any good if they use that against them when it comes to getting into the right major etc. And yes - William and Mary is not very homeschool friendly at all. When you speak to them they act very open to it and I do know a few who have gone there but they make you take more tests and jump through more hoops than the Ivy Leagues so it just seems stupid to me. I'd do it if my kids really wanted to go there and it is an excellent school but unless it ends up that my youngest wants to go there some day it won't fit my rising senior (nursing) or my 8th grader who will be more of a science person. Heather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Yeah, its hard because really, the quality of education at the CC is not likely to be as high as what you can give her at home. :001_huh: Maybe that depends on the individual college. IDK. My older dd got her AA, then transferred to San Jose State; she said the only difference she could tell was that at the c.c. she might have to write a three-page paper while at CalState it would be a five-page paper. At least in California, many of the c.c. instructors are college/university teachers who are moonlighting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbmamaz Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 True, i had some great teachers in Charlottesville at PVCC, esp in technology. My daughters teachers at the community college she went to were hit or miss. Some of them were as horrid as any she had in public school, or worse. One actually sent her husband in to 'cover' for her once! But dd made the deans list, so that looked good! But definitely ask about specific programs, the guaranteed admission is NOT the same for every school. I've heard this many times. You just have to know what the specific classwork requirements are for the specific program you are aiming for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoponl Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Yeah, its hard because really, the quality of education at the CC is not likely to be as high as what you can give her at home. Maybe it depends on the CC. My ds's CC classes have been excellent, and his professors were just as dedicated as any I remember from university (although the class sizes are much smaller!). I've been impressed. For example, for his Honors Comp II class he was required to read different materials than I would have thought of (better), and he had to write a weekly paper. My ds has taken mostly special-interest and honors classes. We always check out the teachers first on ratemyprofessors.com to make sure the class will be worthwhile. For example, the teacher for the class I mentioned above is here: http://www.ratemyprofessors.com/ShowRatings.jsp?tid=1129890 HTH ~judi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbmamaz Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 The school my daughter went to was a very new branch of a fairly new school - but they offered the graphic arts she wanted, and the others didnt. But i need to start over for my teen son and figure out what school will be best for him. He'll only take a class or two each semester of his sr year tho - no where near as mature as his sister was at that age. Or, this age. She started community college when she was still 15! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Photo Ninja Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 A transfer scholarship is not so bad. My dd got one for full tuition, based entirely on her cc grades. It is valid for 2 years, but that's all she needs to complete her college education since she has the AA. It has not been a drawback for her at all. She is very happy with her decision, and will be graduating from the university next May. It was her request to take the cc courses during high school. It allowed her to move toward her goals. The cc courses applied to high school credits, so she earned her high school diploma as well. It is not a case of taking the cc courses in addition to high school courses. The cc courses count for both concurrently. I can see where some students would not be ready to go this route. Some need more time to mature before going away to a university, and attending a cc for two years after high school allows that time. Earning an AA during high school does mean being about two years younger when tackling upper division college course content, which some students may find difficult. Some students will need more time to master the basics in high school or to explore varied curriculum areas before focusing on college level work. While all the universities my dc applied to and attend transferred in all their cc course credits, I have heard (on this forum) that some universities don't accept cc credits. It is important to take it all into consideration before making the decision to take a lot of college credits during high school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 Keep in mind that a semester or quarter at a CC counts as a whole year at a high school. At our local CC, to get an AA, you need to take two English courses, three social science/humanities (history) courses, and two science courses (in addition to whatever your subject is). Since it is on the quarter system, you can take 9 courses per year. It would be easy to get in all of the high school requirements and then some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbmamaz Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 Keep in mind that a semester or quarter at a CC counts as a whole year at a high school. At our local CC, to get an AA, you need to take two English courses, three social science/humanities (history) courses, and two science courses (in addition to whatever your subject is). Since it is on the quarter system, you can take 9 courses per year. It would be easy to get in all of the high school requirements and then some. I have to disagree. My daughter's high school said that 1 semester of a college class is only half a year of a high school class. They had to take 2 semesters to count as 1 high school class. The college was on a 2-semester-plus-summer system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 I have to disagree. My daughter's high school said that 1 semester of a college class is only half a year of a high school class. They had to take 2 semesters to count as 1 high school class. The college was on a 2-semester-plus-summer system. Interesting. In WA it is state mandated that a quarter at a CC counts as a year in high school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 I have to disagree. My daughter's high school said that 1 semester of a college class is only half a year of a high school class. They had to take 2 semesters to count as 1 high school class. The college was on a 2-semester-plus-summer system. That was the high school's opinion, and the high school can make those decisions for its own students. I haven't heard of any homeschoolers whose dc had any sort of problems if they gave credit for a full-year course for a semester c.c. course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-FL Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 :iagree: Thing is, when you submit your transcript with cc classes on it, the U is going to require the official transcript from the cc anyway. So if you call it 1 credit or .5 for hs, it won't really matter. Also, since for an AA degree here, you're required to take Speech, that counts as another English credit to help fulfill the 4 required for hs along with Freshman comp I & II. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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