happycc Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 (edited) We are doing 3A still with my 5th grader and she is struggling. I am practically solving the problems for her.(you know the ones you cut out the pentaminoes and make those shapes.) These are the geometry ones so far. We have not gotten any further. It is extremely slow going. It kills her that it is level 3-3rd graders. Any ideas? How many of you actually have to go and help your kids solve the problems even with the hints? I love puzzles (my mom said I was great with puzzles as a kid) so it is no problem with me but with them they want to give up pretty quickly. Edited August 21, 2012 by happycc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
my2boysteacher Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 We don't have BA, but my oldest DS is using AOPS, which is very similar in style. That style is definitely not for every child. My oldest thrives with it,because he is an extreme visual spatial (right-brained) learner. He NEEDS to start with the big picture, and then break it down into it's individual pieces. He loves the problem solving, puzzle-y nature of it. My younger DS would HATE that style. He is very sequential, and wants everything in it's proper order with no 'fluff'. Maybe it is just not a good fit with your child? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 I absolutely solve them with my kids! Those are HARD for people who are not naturally visual-spatial! The biggest reason we use BA is so they will learn to face frustration and not quit when things get hard. In fact, I view that as my most important goal in schooling them. For the not wanting to do 3rd grade work in 5th grade thing, try reading Understood Betsy with her. We loved that book! There is a part in the book where she is reading with the 7th graders, I think, and doing math with the 2nd graders, and she can't figure out why or what grade she is in. The teacher basically tells her she is not defined by her grade level. She's just... HERSELF. We also have lots of conversations about how my kids aren't really in a "grade" at all. I tell them what grade to tell people they are in but in real life that doesn't mean anything. They do some work ahead of other kids their age and some behind, and IT REALLY DOESN'T MATTER as long as they are constantly learning. (Plus, seriously, does your dd know that BA is for kids who "get" math naturally and who need a challenge? It's not your average 3rd grade math!!!!) Oh, The Report Card by Andrew Clements might be another good one, too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momling Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 We ended up skipping a few pages of pentaminoes after my 8 yr old daughter reached her breaking point. I'm certain my 10 yr old would have felt the same way - they were hard!!! I wouldn't allow them to give up so easily if it was an essential mathematical skill, but the pentaminoes stopped being fun and so we stopped them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alicia Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Not to totally hijack your thread, have you ever heard of McRuffy? The OT in me loves their hands on visual spatial activities included in all grades and lesson materials. They also remind me of how I learned math at a montessori elementary school and they were a lifesaver when we moved from the US to New Zealand. I suggest it because I have two dc the same age as your daughter but who are VERY different learners. I wanted them to be able to have an understanding of math beyond straight problem solving. Mcruffy math includes the visual-perceptual, hands on learning that is so needed by young learners. We tend to take this stuff out of curricula after 2nd grade but is needed by even normal kids up to algebra into geometry. 5th grade is coming out this week. I find the concepts a bit advanced so would advise that you look at 4th grade especially the second half. I want to send him an email advising to remove the grades and put levels. My 11 yr olds didnt really like have a book labeled 4th grade so I feel for your daughter. If your daughter is feeling defeated by Beast Academy but you really value what it is trying to teach her, dont give up! You know you are on the right track. Try a different approach that is not ment for gifted learners as Beast Academy people are used to teaching that group. Read the bio's of the developers of the program and you will see what they did before. Very impressive but maybe tough for our normal kids who are starting out with this stuff a little later. McRuffy on the other hands suits us to a tea and has for about 9 years. He started out teaching special ed and found that with careful multistory approach leads even "slow learners" to success. Guess that says something about my kids:) His materials are both spiral and mastery. I have one that is overconfident and makes silly mistakes and another that is not as confident and has everything fall right out of his head if he waits to long to see it again. Saxon made us all crazy and lacked the built in use of manipulative right into the scripted lessons. Another option might be Math Mammoth. She builds from the physical/concrete to the abstract when teaching a lesson. No manipulative to handle but the approach on the page is as if they were used. HTH Alicia in New Zealand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happycc Posted August 21, 2012 Author Share Posted August 21, 2012 she and her sister scored lower on the geometry section in STAR testing. My girls spent the first 2-3 years of their lives trapped in a crib with a net over it for hours and hours by their neglectful schizoiprenic mother with very little interaction. They need this kind of manipulative like stuff and to see and touch things in 3D. They learned early on to give up when things are difficult (as everything was done for them). For their first 5yrs old they did not have access to the whole house or the kitchen for that matter. Just plucked in front of a television set all day. Were not potty trained and sucking on bottles til age 5yrs. Couldn't dress themselves, didn;t know how to pick their own clothes, cried for everything. No I will stick with Beast Academy-just wanted some kind of tips, encouragement, support, a light at the end of the tunnel (that this will be worth it in the end kind of thing). I MAKE them play with blocks and toys-turned off the TV and computers which they were highly addicted to. (I get so sad when I see my 3yrs old surpass the youngest of the three who is almost 9yrs old in some things) For example we read and talked about catapults being a lever and he somehow figured out how to make my swingline hole puncher into a catapult flinging his spider man figures across the room for about 30 minutes. When the 9yrs old was 3yrs old, she was definitely not doing that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 (edited) That first chapter of 3a is by far the most unique and hardest. Here is what helped A LOT for my son: I traced out the pattern, and then he made the shapes on top of it, instead of building from scratch -- it was much easier. OK, tip for the tetrominoes exercises. Instead of trying to solve them freestyle, I traced the goal configuration on a piece of paper (true to size) and then my son worked by placing the pieces on top. It made it way, way more obvious what to do, for some reason. If anyone needs a photo, here it is: (As you see, my son assigned problem 74 an extra star.) I recently bought Exploring with Squares and Cubes by Ron Kremer, from Dale Seymour publications for more interesting geometry stuff, and, btw, Theoni Pappas, in one of the Penrose books, has harder pentomino problems than in BA. Also http://www.cimt.plymouth.ac.uk/resources/puzzles/pentoes/pentoint.htm , and, through a suggestion from one l michele, Pentomino Puzzles 365 Teasers to Keep Your Brain in Shape by Eric Harshbarger. Edited August 21, 2012 by stripe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyforlatin Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 In some ways, Beast Academy is not typical 3rd grade level work. There are some problems that may be more suitable for a 4th or 5th grader. In fact, their geometry problems can be found in MM4B, and their multiplication problems (i.e. dividing an area into 4 smaller parts) are in MM5A. Of course, there also seems to be work that is on level. This is just to say that your daughter is not just doing 3rd grade work. Those pentominoes puzzles could stump adults. Also, Beast seems to think that by tackling difficult problems, there is no need for further repetitive work on a lower level. It's a more effective use of time, but it also means that some children may get stuck on the challenging problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyforlatin Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 I just saw Stripe mention this book, which I have, and which is harder than Beast. I didn't think the workbook provided enough. You could play with it along with your daughter, so that she knows these are not simple visual games. Dd happens to need more work in her visual-spacial skills, so I bought the book, along with a few ThinkFun games, so that she gets some practice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zarabellesmom Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 (edited) We did something similar to what Stripe did, except I wasted extra time by finding a website that allows you to print your own graph paper. I created graph paper with the right size squares, printed it and slid it into a sheet protector. Then I would draw the outline of the shape she needed to create and she would use the pentominoes. Edited August 22, 2012 by RresaJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 We did something similar to what Stripe did, except I wasted extra time by finding a website that allows you to print your own graph paper. I created graph paper with the right size squares, printed it and slid it into a sheet protector. Then I would draw the outline of the shape she needed to create and she would use the pentominoes. And, as you can see, I used some random (wrinkled!) piece of paper and just traced. It's pretty ugly! ;) I never can get squares to line up when I try to use graph paper I print online. Yours is very pretty! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zarabellesmom Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Awwww, thanks. But don't pet the perfectionist side of me, it's really a monster that causes all kinds of trouble. That said, that same piece of graph paper and his page protector friend were quite useful again today at the end of the skip counting chapter when we were making our own charts by nines, fours, sixes, and whatever. We just put the numbers in the little boxes and off we went... And... Did you know you could make octagonal And hexagonal graph paper. Wow... I waste so much time. Wonder what one would do with that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happycc Posted August 23, 2012 Author Share Posted August 23, 2012 Beast Academy or would there be "holes"? I am thinking of having her jump around a bit more in the book so she is not spending 30 minutes a whole day solving one pentaminoes problem that I am stuck on as well. Stripe -like your ideas.. I will try it tomorrow as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrysalis Academy Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 I definitely think you could alternate the Geometry chapters (3A 1 & 3) with almost anything else . . . We did a lot of 3B before we even cracked 3A, b/c I was waiting till now to do geometry. It was fine. The 3B book is a lot easier than the 3A, IMO, at least so far in our experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 The 3B book is a lot easier than the 3A, IMO, at least so far in our experience. I had the same thought when I first saw the books. The first part of 3A is tough! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairProspects Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennyD Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 (edited) Beast Academy or would there be "holes"? I am thinking of having her jump around a bit more in the book so she is not spending 30 minutes a whole day solving one pentaminoes problem that I am stuck on as well. I actually find the fact that some of the problems in BA require so much time to solve to be a huge selling point for the program. I emphasize to my son that problems just take as long as they take, and we are not in any kind of rush. He has gotten so much better at just sticking with a problem and trying to solve it, over and over again, for days, even. I am far happier that he is learning this than I am about any of the actual math (which I also think is excellent, but the persistence is the key to the kingdom, IMNSHO). Edited August 23, 2012 by JennyD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morosophe Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 And... Did you know you could make octagonal And hexagonal graph paper. Wow... I waste so much time. Wonder what one would do with that? For one thing, gamers love it to make maps for various systems. That way, you can model people moving around or attacking in a room with many more options than the traditional square graph paper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zarabellesmom Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 For one thing, gamers love it to make maps for various systems. That way, you can model people moving around or attacking in a room with many more options than the traditional square graph paper. So what you are saying is...if I had mentioned this question to my husband, I would have immediately had an answer?! :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMD Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Yes, I helped DD through some of those. And yes, the answers in the practice book helped me through some of those starred ones! :lol: But DD had to give it a good try first, then I'd give her a clue and we'd work it together. I don't use it as a completely independent curriculum. I can see her getting better with each question though, she worked some of the following toothpick ones quickly and surprised me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morosophe Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 So what you are saying is...if I had mentioned this question to my husband, I would have immediately had an answer?! :lol: Pretty much. That's the only way I know about it, after all! :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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