Difficult Situation with Friend - WWYD?

[My3Munchkins]

Thanks for the input.

Edited August 19, 2012 by My3Munchkins

[Petrichor]

My 3 year old DS is like your friend's kid. My DS is so energetic that it's hard for me to leave the house with him because he will run away from me and right into the street. Last night, he ran through our religious center's parking lot, dashing through the cars, me chasing him. He's hard to catch, and doesn't allow me to hold him or his hand most of the time.

 

I find that he acts up more when he hasn't eaten well or is tired (and definitely if he has just been hanging out with "bad kids"), but I recognize that it's my job to make sure he either eats well/gets a nap/stays away from bad influences OR, I keep him away from decent people. So we either stay home or we do "forced" nap time.

 

I also find that it is really really helpful if I(or DH!) take him to a big empty park or field and let him run wild in circles until he decides he wants to go home(or he gets so tired and cranky that you can tell it's naptime again)

 

It's hard being that mom. Did the boy's mom say or do anything when he was acting aggressively towards your toddler? If it were my DS, he would get a stern talking to and some time and space in his room to cool down, along with emphasis on how his actions hurt the toddler(emotionally and physically).

 

Suggest to the mom that she tries taking her son out to a field every day for some running time. Baseball diamonds are my favorite since they're like huge cages, lol.

[2_girls_mommy]

I would keep the friendship and keep taking the kids, but talk to your kids about his behaviour after. Have them take books or quiet activities to do on their own. I have lots of mom friends. Some with wild kids. I love the kids, I love the moms. But I don't like having the kids on my own without the moms because they are wild.

 

It is worth it for friendships though. You just can't leave the kids in a room alone with him. Try to say, well, it is a little wild in there. We better stay in there, etc.

 

And I like the idea of meeting for outdoor activities whenever possible. Take them all to the park or the zoo to walk around all day, and you and friend can talk in between chasing him down.

[My3Munchkins]

He really is a sweet little boy! I have no problems at all with him being wild! I think a lot of it is just normal 3 year old behavior. I've always told DC to set a good example for him. If he pushes, tell him that friends don't push, etc. It did bother me though when the mom didn't say anything to him about his behavior towards my little one.

 

My 3 year old DS is like your friend's kid. My DS is so energetic that it's hard for me to leave the house with him because he will run away from me and right into the street. Last night, he ran through our religious center's parking lot, dashing through the cars, me chasing him. He's hard to catch, and doesn't allow me to hold him or his hand most of the time.

 

I find that he acts up more when he hasn't eaten well or is tired (and definitely if he has just been hanging out with "bad kids"), but I recognize that it's my job to make sure he either eats well/gets a nap/stays away from bad influences OR, I keep him away from decent people. So we either stay home or we do "forced" nap time.

 

I also find that it is really really helpful if I(or DH!) take him to a big empty park or field and let him run wild in circles until he decides he wants to go home(or he gets so tired and cranky that you can tell it's naptime again)

 

It's hard being that mom. Did the boy's mom say or do anything when he was acting aggressively towards your toddler? If it were my DS, he would get a stern talking to and some time and space in his room to cool down, along with emphasis on how his actions hurt the toddler(emotionally and physically).

 

Suggest to the mom that she tries taking her son out to a field every day for some running time. Baseball diamonds are my favorite since they're like huge cages, lol.

 

I think meeting at a field might be a good idea! When we first met, we spent a lot of time outside with them but he would take off running into the street and my son would end up having to chase him down which was dangerous for both of them. It's been so hot during the summer that we've been playing inside with them which could be part of the problem.

 

 

ETA: I just wanted to clarify - I don't think the aggressive behavior is "normal" or acceptable. I was referring more to the high energy behavior when I said I felt like a lot of his behavior was normal 3 year old behavior.

Edited August 18, 2012 by My3Munchkins
clarification

[Kertie]

It did bother me though when the mom didn't say anything to him about his behavior towards my little one.

 

If a child of ANY age whacked my kid with a bat of any sort and the mother said NOTHING, I would *absolutely* say something. I would tell the child something like, "No hitting" (phrasing depends on age) and take the bat away.

 

But then, I'm very annoyed by people who stand by and let their kids be mean to others. Even if you believe that it's normal for a 3yo to hit someone else, it's not a behavior he should continue. He needs to be taught that hitting is not a solution to the problem. What his mom does is her business, but in my home, it would not go without verbal correction.

 

It's nice to have people to talk to, but I can't be friends with people that allow their kids to rampage over others. Drives me nuts. To me, it's not even about the kid's actions--ALL kids do naughty and inappropriate things, which is why they have PARENTS who are supposed to TEACH THEM. If the kid was doing that stuff and his mom was addressing it, or even expressing frustration over not knowing how to address it, then that's worth working with. But doing NOTHING?? Ugh.

[Ellie]

He really is a sweet little boy! I have no problems at all with him being wild! I think a lot of it is just normal 3 year old behavior. I've always told DC to set a good example for him. If he pushes, tell him that friends don't push, etc. It did bother me though when the mom didn't say anything to him about his behavior towards my little one.

"Normal"? I think not. I've known many children who were 3yo who were not agressive like that.

 

Although it could be "normal" behavior for children whose mothers do not instruct and correct unacceptable behavior, which is what it sounds like with your friend. Setting a good example will not change his behavior without his mother's involvement, and it shouldn't be your children's job to teach him acceptable behavior in the first place.

 

I would probably back off of the relationship. Life is too short to put up with stuff like that.

 

Long ago I had a good friend who eventually had a son whom she also did not correct. She always made excuses for his bad behavior. Eventually, I just talked to her on the phone, or met her at Starbuck's--no visits to her home and the whole family, no invitations to our home. It was sad, but it was just too painful for all of us to be around her children. :-(

[Aggie]

When dc were that young, I finally realized that I could visit with friends OR parent. It was impossible for *me* to do both with the 2-3yo. As much attention as that age needs, it seemed to quadruple when we went somewhere or had friends over.

 

If your friend doesn't correct her ds at her home, don't expect better behavior from him at a park, field, or zoo. And while she would probably enjoy having your 8yo watch her dc, it's not fair to your 8yo, and, imo, it's not his job.

 

Ah, I should have just quoted Ellie!:D

[J-rap]

I would not want to spend time with a friend if I were constantly concerned about the well being of my own children. The safety of my children come before even a sweet friendship.

 

That being said, I've certainly known children like that who turn out to be fine, decent kids, but the parents really needed to step in to set boundaries and redirect their feelings of frustration. It sounds like your friend isn't doing that. Maybe she doesn't know how? If that happened again, would you feel comfortable in talking with the boy -- in front of your friend, so she can hear. Tell him firmly that hitting is not allowed, under any circumstances. If you can tell what the root of the problem is (not wanting to share a toy, etc.), I'd bring that up too. Help the boy identify what the problem is out loud, and then work out a constructive way to solve it.

 

Some parents really don't know how to do this. If you feel like the friendship is worth it to you to try one more time and know you might have to step in, then I'd give it a try.

[My3Munchkins]

If a child of ANY age whacked my kid with a bat of any sort and the mother said NOTHING, I would *absolutely* say something. I would tell the child something like, "No hitting" (phrasing depends on age) and take the bat away.

 

But then, I'm very annoyed by people who stand by and let their kids be mean to others. Even if you believe that it's normal for a 3yo to hit someone else, it's not a behavior he should continue. He needs to be taught that hitting is not a solution to the problem. What his mom does is her business, but in my home, it would not go without verbal correction.

 

It's nice to have people to talk to, but I can't be friends with people that allow their kids to rampage over others. Drives me nuts. To me, it's not even about the kid's actions--ALL kids do naughty and inappropriate things, which is why they have PARENTS who are supposed to TEACH THEM. If the kid was doing that stuff and his mom was addressing it, or even expressing frustration over not knowing how to address it, then that's worth working with. But doing NOTHING?? Ugh.

 

"Normal"? I think not. I've known many children who were 3yo who were not agressive like that.

 

Although it could be "normal" behavior for children whose mothers do not instruct and correct unacceptable behavior, which is what it sounds like with your friend. Setting a good example will not change his behavior without his mother's involvement, and it shouldn't be your children's job to teach him acceptable behavior in the first place.

 

I would probably back off of the relationship. Life is too short to put up with stuff like that.

 

Long ago I had a good friend who eventually had a son whom she also did not correct. She always made excuses for his bad behavior. Eventually, I just talked to her on the phone, or met her at Starbuck's--no visits to her home and the whole family, no invitations to our home. It was sad, but it was just too painful for all of us to be around her children. :-(

 

I didn't do a very good job of expressing myself! I don't feel that the aggressive behaviors are "normal." I was referring to the "wild" behavior - high energy, very active, etc.

[Petrichor]

I didn't do a very good job of expressing myself! I don't feel that the aggressive behaviors are "normal." I was referring to the "wild" behavior - high energy, very active, etc.

 

And sometimes, there's a fine line between agressive behavior and wild behavior. Sometimes, my DS hurts someone or breaks something and he doesn't mean to hurt them, he's just "lost control" of his body.

 

But no matter what the behavior is, something needs to be said to the boy. Either to calm down for a bit so he can control himself, or to be nice(in the case that he was actually acting aggression).

 

To add, yeah, I definitely would have (and actually have) said something(to the child) whether it was my kid or someone else's kid (friend or stranger).

[katilac]

I would say, "Little boy, if you hit Johnny, he is going to hit you. If you push Johnny, he is going to push you. He has my permission."

 

I wouldn't let an 8-yr-old truly wallop a preschooler, but the threat is often enough, b/c a huge part of his behavior is knowing that your kids are not going to hit or push him back.

 

If that's too bloodthirsty for you, announce that the playdate will be over the second he puts a hand on your children. "If you hit them, push them, or even grab them, we are leaving." And then do it. I would probably bring an uber cool new toy to make the leaving all the more painful.

 

When his mom makes excuses for him, simply say, "I understand, but if he's so tired and hungry that he's hitting, then he's too tired and hungry to play."

[Lang Syne Boardie]

 

If that's too bloodthirsty for you, announce that the playdate will be over the second he puts a hand on your children. "If you hit them, push them, or even grab them, we are leaving." And then do it. I would probably bring an uber cool new toy to make the leaving all the more painful.

 

When his mom makes excuses for him, simply say, "I understand, but if he's so tired and hungry that he's hitting, then he's too tired and hungry to play."

 

Except that I wouldn't threaten Little Johnny with our leaving b/c I don't know why he hits or if he can help it, I think this option is good advice. Sometimes you have to help your friends learn how to teach their dc, and doing it by example is the least offensive way.

 

I've done a form of this before, addressing the mother and not the child. "Susan, I wish we could visit longer today but I can see little Johnny isn't ready for playtime right now. We'll come back another day when he's feeling better."

 

If she says, "Oh, it's just _______ excuse," tell her that you understand but your children didn't come over to be hit or pushed. Tell her you know how hard it is when little ones are reacting to something and unable to play nicely. Tell her all mothers have BTDT and you'd be happy to chat about what has helped your own dc learn to navigate those tough moments...but tell her you'll have to talk about it on the phone, or meet for coffee, because right now it's time for you to take your own dc home.

 

Drawing that boundary is actually the easy part.

 

The hard part is loving her and her dc enough to keep trying again, because it may just be that she truly has no idea what to do. Maybe nobody's ever called her on this; maybe they've just never agreed to another playdate and let her go.

 

Give her more chances while enforcing your boundaries and keeping your dc safe. It's exhausting but sometimes it works. Sometimes knowing that someone will hang in with you while you solve something gives you the impetus to address it.

 

If she doesn't care about your boundaries and really believes your kids should be uncomplaining punching bags, that would obviously be a sign to let the friendship go. A true friend cares about your dc, too.

[LaxMom]

"Normal"? I think not. I've known many children who were 3yo who were not agressive like that.

 

Although it could be "normal" behavior for children whose mothers do not instruct and correct unacceptable behavior, which is what it sounds like with your friend. Setting a good example will not change his behavior without his mother's involvement, and it shouldn't be your children's job to teach him acceptable behavior in the first place.

 

I would probably back off of the relationship. Life is too short to put up with stuff like that.

 

Long ago I had a good friend who eventually had a son whom she also did not correct. She always made excuses for his bad behavior. Eventually, I just talked to her on the phone, or met her at Starbuck's--no visits to her home and the whole family, no invitations to our home. It was sad, but it was just too painful for all of us to be around her children. :-(

I agree. And I would not hesitate to say, "my children do not enjoy playing with Little Johnny because of his aggressive behavior toward them". It is, after all, the natural consequence of being aggressive toward people. I would also fully expect the mom to deny it and stop speaking to me, though.

[*lifeoftheparty*]

*sigh* This is hard.

 

I actually see this from BOTH sides. My son has been impulsive and hyperactive since he was about 3. The child just doesn't think before he acts; he definitely has some ADHD traits, though he doesn't have ADHD.

 

We made friends with a boy on DS's soccer team a few years ago, like 3 yrs, when they were 5. She didn't have ANY friends, partly because her son had a lot of the same issues mine has. So we became friends.

 

Here's the difference: whenever my son behaves(d) badly, I am ON IT. I correct every single behavior. I make him apologize. I stop things before they escalate. I can tel when he's ABOUT to do/say something mean and cut him off. I accept the fact that my child can be difficult and I don't make excuses for him. I pay extremely close attention to him because I intend to nip his impulsivity and bad behaviors in the butt.

 

However, this other mom is the type who completely ignores her child's behavior. Everyone else is to blame, THEY are the instigators. Her child NEVER does anything wrong. :glare: And he KNOWS it. I WATCH them together, I SEE how mean he is, I HEAR how mean he is. But she ignores it. The kids dad ENCOURAGES the behavior. I've heard him tell the kid, "If that kid gets near you (on the soccer field) kick his a**!" If the behavior is SO blatant that she can't ignore it, then it's : He's tired, had a bad day at school, isn't feeling well, had too much sugar, etc.

 

I could tell in the many conversations that I have had with her that the reason she didn't have any friends is b/c of her sons behavior and the way she ignores it. It was always, "Oh, we used to hang out with them ALL the time and then they stopped talking to us, I have no idea why."- type situations.

 

I felt really bad and I was determined to stick it out and make it work b/c I know how it is to have "that" kid. And I just COULD NOT "drop her" like all those other people did. But as the years have passed, her son has gotten MUCH worse, while mine (THANKFULLY) is starting to get a clue and learn from his mistakes and mature a bit. Our outings/playdates have been strained, at best, and finally this summer, that kid was just completely ROTTEN to DS while at VBS and we just had to cut ties. Even the VBS leader was saying that the only problems he had with my DS were b/c the other kid was instigating and, to him, it seemed like he was *trying* to get DS in trouble; it even frustrated DS to tears once or twice. The leader was a great guy, it was at our church (the other family is Catholic), so he knew DS and me, and he just wanted to let me know what was going on and that he was going to talk to the kids mom about it. Well, after that, she didn't take him back. We saw them at another VBS in town, and she put him a the grade below and when we passed the kid, he stuck his tongue out at DS and while I was talking to her in the parking lot (she of course, acted like nothing was wrong) he was making mean faces at DS right. in. front. of. her!! That was it. I was done. We haven't seen or talked to them since. I did see the boys VBS leader holding him back on the last day of that VBS so she could "talk" to his mom. I don't think he'll ever change. It's sad.

 

So, LONG story short, if the parents don't take responsibility for the behavior and try to correct it, but make excuses for it, the behavior will probably only get worse. I think it's best to just watch the situation and if the behavior gets worse and the mom never does anything about it, I would start putting some distance between your families. But if she's desperately trying to correct/fix her sons behavior, I would cut her some slack, as long as she keeps on him, it might actually "click" some day :)

[Catwoman]

"Normal"? I think not. I've known many children who were 3yo who were not agressive like that.

 

Although it could be "normal" behavior for children whose mothers do not instruct and correct unacceptable behavior, which is what it sounds like with your friend. Setting a good example will not change his behavior without his mother's involvement, and it shouldn't be your children's job to teach him acceptable behavior in the first place.

 

I would probably back off of the relationship. Life is too short to put up with stuff like that.

 

Long ago I had a good friend who eventually had a son whom she also did not correct. She always made excuses for his bad behavior. Eventually, I just talked to her on the phone, or met her at Starbuck's--no visits to her home and the whole family, no invitations to our home. It was sad, but it was just too painful for all of us to be around her children. :-(

 

:iagree:

 

I'm with you, Ellie! :001_smile:

 

And I wanted to add -- if this woman is so sweet and such a nice friend, exactly why would she allow her child to try to hurt your child? :confused:

 

I would NEVER put up with a situation like that. I know you want a friend, but your kids shouldn't have to suffer because you need a buddy. Your kids can find other friends, and so can you, if this woman won't effectively parent her own kid.

 

Why have you tolerated this? :confused: Your responsibility is to protect your own kids, not try to make nice with someone so she will keep being friends with you. You need to address the situation every single time it happens, and the mom needs to know that you fully expect her to take action when her ds is mean. Honestly, it boggles my mind that you haven't already done this. What do you do when the kid is mean to your kids?

 

I know I sound harsh, but you're putting the friendship with this woman ahead of your own children. If you absolutely want to be her friend, invite her out for coffee without the kids every now and then, or set up a regular lunch date -- again, without the kids.

Edited August 19, 2012 by Catwoman

[My3Munchkins]

:iagree:

 

I'm with you, Ellie! :001_smile:

 

And I wanted to add -- if this woman is so sweet and such a nice friend, exactly why would she allow her child to try to hurt your child? :confused:

 

I would NEVER put up with a situation like that. I know you want a friend, but your kids shouldn't have to suffer because you need a buddy. Your kids can find other friends, and so can you, if this woman won't effectively parent her own kid.

 

Why have you tolerated this? :confused: Your responsibility is to protect your own kids, not try to make nice with someone so she will keep being friends with you. You need to address the situation every single time it happens, and the mom needs to know that you fully expect her to take action when her ds is mean. Honestly, it boggles my mind that you haven't already done this. What do you do when the kid is mean to your kids?

 

I know I sound harsh, but you're putting the friendship with this woman ahead of your own children. If you absolutely want to be her friend, invite her out for coffee without the kids every now and then, or set up a regular lunch date -- again, without the kids.

 

I appreciate you taking the time to comment but I absolutely have not put my friendship ahead of my children. The aggressive behavior has just started recently. I have been distancing myself from her. We still talk but haven't gotten the kids together. The last time we saw them it was just to quickly drop something off. She invited us to stay. When he started acting aggressively and my friend didn't do anything to correct or stop the behavior, I said we needed to leave. The three things that I mentioned in the 1st post happened rather quickly - one as we were heading towards the door.