Math Mammoth 5 and 6

[hollyhock]

For those people whose kids have done MM through levels 5 and 6, how did it go? Did your kids find it pretty challenging?

 

I keep reading that some kids are able to jump from MM 6 into algebra. This makes it sound like MM is ahead or challenging.

 

My 10yo son is bright and hasn't had any previous trouble with math (we've been doing MM since 2nd grade). His mental math is better than mine (and I was always good at math). I would say he might be slightly above average in math. But MM 5 is giving him a pretty hard time. We are repeating lessons and we're only on Chapter 1.

 

I am not opposed to switching to something else but I don't want to wait long if I'm going to do it. So can anyone tell me, does it get better? Or are the last levels of MM this challenging throughout? If your child has completed MM 5 or 6, are they pretty "mathy"?

 

Thanks for any help.

[my2boysteacher]

My oldest completed MM 5 and did find it to be more of a challenge than the previous levels. We did have a few reservations about the order of some of the lessons. I had to do some extra work with him to get the fractions and decimals chapters to make sense. That being said, we are going to skip MM 6 with him and go right into AOPS Pre-algebra. I think it will be a much better fit for his unique learning style. I have heard a few others say that they also skipped 6 and went into Pre-algebra. Hope that helps!

[Penguin]

I am a MM fan and, yes, I think that it is challenging. This will be our first year of homeschool but we afterschooled with the MM topical series last year.

 

My DS11 is a rising 6th grader and he can pretty much do the types of fraction and decimal calculations found in MM5 but he does not have algebraic thinking and he struggles mightily with word problems.

 

I am planning to start him in Chapter 1 of MM5 so that he gets the word problem strategies he is missing. I expect him to go quickly through calculation type stuff (simplifying fractions, dividing with decimals...).

 

He will do this along with LOF Decimals and Percents (he did the fractions book last year).

 

Much as I would love to just start (next week!) with MM6, I don't think that this would be in his best interest.

 

Anyway, hope this helps you somehow. I own both MM5 and MM6 and have spent countless hours looking through both of them!

[Halcyon]

My son is finishing up MM5 (he should have finished it a bit ago, but that's another story LOL) He didn't find it crazy challenging, BUT he has just begun the geometry section (it's the last 30 pages or so?) and is finding it more challenging now that ever before. Not sure if that's "summer brain" or the fact that it's harder.

 

We were planning on going directly to AoPS Pre-A or Dolciani after MM5. I haven't decided yet. There are certainly things in MM6 that he hasn't covered, but I wonder if they are covered in a Pre-A course...I guess that means I should look at Pre-A more closely.

 

He also has been doing CWP since 1st, so that may be why he doesn't find the word problems too hard.

[hollyhock]

Soo... I am gathering that MM 6 is basically pre-algebra? Or close to it? Which is why people seem to be skipping it?

[HappyGrace]

Soo... I am gathering that MM 6 is basically pre-algebra? Or close to it? Which is why people seem to be skipping it?

 

 

:bigear:

 

I am going back thru MM5 and 6 with dd12 to make sure she is solid on all concepts. I'm hoping that MM6 could just count as pre-alg, but I don't think Maria (the author) means it to because on her site she mentions what books she likes for pre-algebra.

 

So I'm hoping to hear answers on this too!

[Halcyon]

:bigear:

 

I am going back thru MM5 and 6 with dd12 to make sure she is solid on all concepts. I'm hoping that MM6 could just count as pre-alg, but I don't think Maria (the author) means it to because on her site she mentions what books she likes for pre-algebra.

 

So I'm hoping to hear answers on this too!

 

Huh. Interesting. Maybewe will skim MM6? Covering stuff that is assumed in Most Pre-A courses? Wonder what that would be. I think i have a new project. :tongue_smilie:

[HappyGrace]

Covering stuff that is assumed in Most Pre-A courses? Wonder what that would be. I think i have a new project. :tongue_smilie:

\

 

I would pay you in virtual brownies if you would take this project on!!! :)

 

If you ask on here, and I think I did once but can't find the thread, or maybe someone else did, they will say it is hard to tell because no one has actually defined what pre-algebra is, that it is a mishmosh of topics, blah, blah, blah.

 

But I think someone needs to look at what *typical* pre-alg courses have, and compare it to MM6 and see how it compares.

 

I wanted to do that with Saxon 8/7, which is considered pre-alg, to see if I can just do MM6 instead, but haven't had a chance. (I was going to look att the Saxon 8/7 Table of Contents on CBD.com)

[Halcyon]

\

 

I would pay you in virtual brownies if you would take this project on!!! :)

 

If you ask on here, and I think I did once but can't find the thread, or maybe someone else did, they will say it is hard to tell because no one has actually defined what pre-algebra is, that it is a mishmosh of topics, blah, blah, blah.

 

But I think someone needs to look at what *typical* pre-alg courses have, and compare it to MM6 and see how it compares.

 

I wanted to do that with Saxon 8/7, which is considered pre-alg, to see if I can just do MM6 instead, but haven't had a chance. (I was going to look att the Saxon 8/7 Table of Contents on CBD.com)

 

If i have the time this week, i will try and do this. I own Dolciani Pre A, Lial's Pre-a and AOPS PreA, so i can do a general overview of what overlap there is. I have to work on our geogrpaphy coop stuff, but this is a project i've ben thinking about fora while, so.....

[Lang Syne Boardie]

If i have the time this week, i will try and do this. I own Dolciani Pre A, Lial's Pre-a and AOPS PreA, so i can do a general overview of what overlap there is. I have to work on our geogrpaphy coop stuff, but this is a project i've ben thinking about fora while, so.....

 

I'm so glad you're planning to do this! I've been wondering about how much MM6 does compare to the typical pre-alg course, because ds#2 is doing TT pre-alg and so far there's nothing he didn't learn in MM6. As a matter of fact, I am feeling like he's over-prepared for it and not being challenged. But he's not all the way through the first semester yet.

[hollyhock]

I would be interested in hearing the results of that project as well, Halcyon. :)

[Halcyon]

I'm so glad you're planning to do this! I've been wondering about how much MM6 does compare to the typical pre-alg course, because ds#2 is doing TT pre-alg and so far there's nothing he didn't learn in MM6. As a matter of fact, I am feeling like he's over-prepared for it and not being challenged. But he's not all the way through the first semester yet.

 

This is my concern- i would like to do a Pre-A course with ds and dont want hm to be bored- that's the last thing he needs(he gets complacent and just a bit self- satisfied if the work isnt hard). Of course, if it turns out tha MM6 is basically a Pre-A course, then i can make an informed decision as to whether we should use it, or another Pre-A course, without thinking we have to do both, kwim?

 

. I will try and get to this asap and post back.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

This is my concern- i would like to do a Pre-A course with ds and dont want hm to be bored- that's the last thing he needs(he gets complacent and just a bit self- satisfied if the work isnt hard). Of course, if it turns out tha MM6 is basically a Pre-A course, then i can make an informed decision as to whether we should use it, or another Pre-A course, without thinking we have to do both, kwim?

 

. I will try and get to this asap and post back.

 

:D :lurk5:

[HappyGrace]

If i have the time this week, i will try and do this. I own Dolciani Pre A, Lial's Pre-a and AOPS PreA, so i can do a general overview of what overlap there is. I have to work on our geogrpaphy coop stuff, but this is a project i've ben thinking about fora while, so.....

 

 

Thank you, thank you, thank you!!! :D :D

[Create Your Ritual]

There was a thread about this exact thing a while ago and I wish I could find it for you. The consensus was that MM6 covered a few key areas that AoPS did not, but otherwise you should be able to do either/or. I remember someone posting that if your student could do MM6A Chapter 4 - Number Theory then they would enjoy AoPS Pre-Alg. At least that is how I remembered it! lol

 

We've used all the levels of MM. My dd11 has finished with MM5 and there were a few areas that she struggled on and had to review after the test and then retake the test. I believe the fractions chapter and perhaps the geometry in the spring were the two issues. I do need to get her CWP to help with word problems because she sometimes has trouble setting them up correctly.

 

We've started on MM6A this summer and hope to finish it before we move directly into AoPS Pre-Alg for the fall. So far she is doing well with MM6. The real kicker is that she is going back to PS this year as a 6th grader. She is being moved into their 7th grade Pre-Alg class, but I am not having that replace the work we will do at home with AoPS at all. Not sure how that all will go, but for now I will remain calm. lol

[hollyhock]

Thanks for that info, SaDonna. Sounds like MM really ramps up in the last two levels. I want my son to be solid in math but I also don't want to push concepts on him he's not ready for. I'm still not sure what to do. I'm coming to the conclusion that MM 5 and 6 are best for really "mathy" kids.

[Create Your Ritual]

There were a few chapters as I mentioned in MM5 that dd had to review, but at the same time I can't way whether I would call her mathy. I will say that using MM has enabled her to do more mental math and there are times that she can come up with answers in her head quicker than her dad or I can figure them out. The main issue that we had with MM5 was the word problems because they quickly become 3-4 part problems and you have to be well organized to get them accurate and find the final answer.

 

Last year in MM4 I loaded the pdf of the curriculum onto their laptops and required them to do the actual work on lined paper. I made them learn how to space the problems, show all of their work, and not jump around the page. They really couldn't jump around because they weren't working on the actual worksheets anymore. They still had a few pages or chapters they had to print, but for the most part requiring that level of organization really helped them get things right.

[Create Your Ritual]

On a side note, dd11 is well into chapter 3 of MM6A and I haven't had to help her with any of level A so far .. go figure.

[Halcyon]

On a side note, dd11 is well into chapter 3 of MM6A and I haven't had to help her with any of level A so far .. go figure.

 

Sadonna, so your plan is t mus do 6a before aops? And skip 6b?

[Create Your Ritual]

I am not completely sure yet, but I knew for a fact I wanted to get through the first half of MM6 before I dove into AoPS at all.

 

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/showpost.php?p=3895117&postcount=74

 

Here is one of the replies, but I am still looking for the other comparison. I know of quite a few people who opted to finish MM5B and then head straight into AoPS Pre-Alg without issue. So, it will really be a matter of how my dd works through AoPS. I remember when my husband and I sat down and compared them both a while ago it seemed as if many of the same topics were being covered by both, so it's mostly a wait and see if we can move into AoPS without finishing all of MM or not.

 

If you have the time I don't see why doing one then the other wouldn't be helpful to any student, but then I have not worked through AoPS to really be able to know.

[Create Your Ritual]

I would have no problem with finishing MM6 before starting AoPS pre-alg except that dd11 has been placed in a 7th grade PS pre-alg program so I would like to be working on AoPS pre-alg alongside of it after school.

 

I know that A LOT of people have moved into AoPS pre-alg after MM5 or Singapore 5 levels were complete. But then I see that Maria has a whole section about what pre-alg books to choose after MM6

 

http://www.mathmammoth.com/complete/prealgebra.php

 

and she also has 7th grade pre-alg worksheets

 

http://www.mathmammoth.com/worksheets/grade_7.php

 

That makes me wonder if I am missing something by not completing MM6 and REALLY has me worried that dd11 won't be able to walk into the PS pre-alg class knowing what she is doing. ugh .. so I am a little stressed myself about this.

[jennynd]

I would have no problem with finishing MM6 before starting AoPS pre-alg except that dd11 has been placed in a 7th grade PS pre-alg program so I would like to be working on AoPS pre-alg alongside of it after school.

 

I know that A LOT of people have moved into AoPS pre-alg after MM5 or Singapore 5 levels were complete. But then I see that Maria has a whole section about what pre-alg books to choose after MM6

 

http://www.mathmammoth.com/complete/prealgebra.php

 

and she also has 7th grade pre-alg worksheets

 

http://www.mathmammoth.com/worksheets/grade_7.php

 

That makes me wonder if I am missing something by not completing MM6 and REALLY has me worried that dd11 won't be able to walk into the PS pre-alg class knowing what she is doing. ugh .. so I am a little stressed myself about this.

It really depends on the kids. many country do not have pre algebra in their math curriculum.

I went the other way around. we did Singapore through 6 with all IP/CWP and add key to algebra and treated that as preA and jump right in AOPS algebra after that

[HappyGrace]

I would have no problem with finishing MM6 before starting AoPS pre-alg except that dd11 has been placed in a 7th grade PS pre-alg program so I would like to be working on AoPS pre-alg alongside of it after school.

 

I know that A LOT of people have moved into AoPS pre-alg after MM5 or Singapore 5 levels were complete. But then I see that Maria has a whole section about what pre-alg books to choose after MM6

 

http://www.mathmammoth.com/complete/prealgebra.php

 

and she also has 7th grade pre-alg worksheets

 

http://www.mathmammoth.com/worksheets/grade_7.php

 

This is what is making me doubt that MM6 could be used *as* pre-algebra. Although I am still hoping it could be. And I have read people saying on here that their dc go straight from MM6 into Algebra. It will be interesting to hear Halycon's comparison of MM6 to traditional pre-algebra. I don't think comparing MM6 to AOPS pre-alg is a fair comparison since AOPS is very deep. I'd be interested in how MM6 compares to more average pre-alg programs, like Saxon 8/7, or Lial's Pre-Algebra.

 

(I need dd to do pre-alg this yr to be ready for alg in ps the next yr., and I'm hoping MM6 could cover this for me.)

Edited August 7, 2012 by HappyGrace

[Create Your Ritual]

Yes, my only concern is that dd is ready to go into a PS pre-alg program and be successful, otherwise I would have no problem with doing MM6 and then AoPS .. or trying AoPS and going back to MM6 for certain things. I just want her to be able to walk into the PS pre-alg and know what is going on.

 

I've heard a lot of people say that MM6 was basically a pre-alg program or they moved straight into alg after MM6, so it makes me 'think' that is how it can be used, but obviously that wasn't Maria's original intention from the looks of things.

 

Not to mention dd11 is moving into a textbook type math .. lots of boxes and colors and where do I look first type of thing. Connected Mathematics or something like that (http://www.phschool.com/atschool/cmp2/program_page.html) .... aye .. it's enough to make my head spin. My only goal is that it be relatively easy for her so that when we she gets home the real math work can begin.

Edited August 7, 2012 by SaDonna

[yvonne]

my only concern is that dd is ready to go into a PS pre-alg program and be successful,

 

If she placed into a public school's pre-alg as a result of their placement test, she should be fine. "Pre-algebra" means different things to different schools. They undoubtedly test for whatever "pre-algebra" means to them, and they've concluded she can do whatever they're calling "pre-algebra."

 

Whether she'll be up for a much more rigorous math w/ AoPs when she gets home is a different question. PS can make for a looong day by itself.

Edited August 7, 2012 by yvonne

[teamturner]

I will chime in and say that my boys only made it through MM 6A last year because we started in MM 5A and I had planned on having them do most of 6B over the summer. However, when I started looking at the topics covered in PreAlgebra courses I decided to just let them cover those topics from 6B in the PreAlgebra course. MM 6B topics include Percent, Geometry, Integers & Coordinates, Probability, and Statistics. Also, percent and integers/coordinates were topics covered in MM 5. MM 5 also covered ratios.

[Create Your Ritual]

Thanks Yvonne,

 

They didn't test her, just asked what she would be going into next year and I told them our plan was to do Pre-Alg, so they moved her up a grade in math to their 7th grade pre-alg program. lol. I think it's a sink or swim sort of situation mostly. I agree our after schooling may be sporadic at first with all the busy work, so we'll wait and see. She is a quick worker, so I am hopeful. It's going to have to be a wait and see thing though, and in the mean time she will keep working through MM6A.

 

My main concern was that MM6 was NOT in fact a pre-alg program at all, but a 6th grade math program and then we would not be ready for pre-alg this fall at ps. I was hoping that by doing MM6A she would actually be ahead of the game when she went back.

[Mom-ninja.]

I plan to do all of MM5 and MM6 and then move to a pre-ag program (would like to do AoPS)

 

I'm in no rush to have ds advance. Lots of review is good for him. If he gets bored I'll reevaluate.

[Juniper]

I'm so glad you're planning to do this! I've been wondering about how much MM6 does compare to the typical pre-alg course, because ds#2 is doing TT pre-alg and so far there's nothing he didn't learn in MM6. As a matter of fact, I am feeling like he's over-prepared for it and not being challenged. But he's not all the way through the first semester yet.

 

Me too!

[ChrissySC]

We have had to slow way down with MM5. As a matter of fact, we are not finished with it! It should be completed about midway through the sixth grade. I am not overly worried, and neither should you. Once you complete MM6, they are ready for pre-Algebra. I would just go slow. Use worksheets when needed to master the problem sets.

 

 

I am look at MM6. I can see where you would think that this is a pre-algebraic study. However, I do not think that it is as thorough as you would expect. I think it is preparation for the study more so than actually pre-algebra.

 

I see basic operation and place value, ratios and proportions, decimals, number theory (gactoring and simplifying, GFC, LCM), more fractions, percent, geometry, integers (here is where I see some pre-algebraic, but not overly so, with graphing linear functions and coordinates), probability and statistics (including mean, median, and mode) in MM6.

 

Very similar to Saxon's 6/5 to 8/7 actually.

[gracyomalley]

We did MM 6A, then DS has been doing Thinkwell 7th grade this summer - which has all been repeat so far....he'll do pre-algebra in the fall with K12....subject and rigor wise, I think if a child did all of MM 6 and really GOT it on their own, they could go into Algebra without a seperate pre-algebra...but for my oldest, MM got quite challenging in 5 and 6, and as he's only starting 6th grade this fall I wanted to make sure he had formal pre-algebra before hitting algebra -

 

IMHO that is what pre-algebra is all about - review and building on all the concepts (fractions, decimals, ratios, integers, probablility, etc...) while introducing more algeraic thinking and problem solving so that kids are firmly into abstract math before they hit algebra....some kids need a year of that, some kids need 2, some none...

 

Again, a child who really thrives with MM 5 and 6 independently would be fine going into algebra...I haven't had that kid yet, but my younest could be there in a few years....possibly...

Erin

[Momling]

I debated between SM6 and MM6 or just moving on to pre-algebra or algebra. We chose to go ahead from SM5b to 6a and I'm glad. The problems get a bit trickier and the review is absolutely necessary for a bad case of puberty-brain. My girl has mastered elementary math, but she forgets it super easily. I want it totally there for when she starts algebra in a year or so.