Help! My 8 year old doesn't sleep by 5am!

[kathy_overman]

Everyone, (that should say past 5am)

 

There is a long history here, the short version is: he cannot self soothe, and go back to sleep. When he is up, he is UP. If he has a bad night, he never ever 'catches up', he just keeps getting worse and worse. We have not slept past 5am in over a month. He is in our room so he only wakes me up and not the other kids.

 

He is perpetually exhausted. He is always rubbing his eyes, he has no self-control because he is always wired, he can't read because it makes him too sleepy to focus - but he will not nap.

 

He fights sleep more than anything. We are all exhausted, and I am losing my patience.

 

We have tried everything! Melatonin, noise machine, benadryl, clonidine, completely dark room, going to be early, going to be late (either way he gets up at 5am), nothing is helping.

 

I am feeling hopeless and super exhausted. Anyone ever have success with anything beyond my list? I am desperate.

 

Thanks.

Edited May 31, 2012 by overpeople

[Forget-Me-Not]

Have you taken him for an actual sleep study? I think I'd start there (probably with an ENT who can refer for it).

[itsheresomewhere]

Totally odd but have you tried washing his feet before bed? That works for DS. Ask the ped for a sleep study,too.

[ondreeuh]

I third the sleep study. Does he snore, by any chance? If he has obstructive sleep apnea (caused by enlarged adenoids or something) that could be causing his sleeplessness.

 

This is a shot in the dark, but have you ever tried an epsom salt bath before bed? That can be super relaxing. Maybe a way to get him back to bed if he wakes up too early?

 

Mine won't sleep without clonidine. Don't know what I'd do without it!

[kathy_overman]

Unfortunately, he does not have sleep apnea. We had everything removed when he was younger, and recently visited the sleep center with no luck.

 

I hate sounding like 'negative nancy', but it is so bad here.

 

ondreeuh - how much clonidine do you give? We just started it, and our Dr. suggested we go up to .15 mg. Do you see instant results with clonidine?

 

thanks.

[LillyMama]

Have you looked at environmental things? I know it sounds odd, but my son did this for a while. We discovered that a neighborhood kid drove his loud deisel truck to swim practice every day at 5am. We never heard it, but it woke my son up consistently.

 

I would think the consistent time thing is indicative of something.

[cin]

Have you tried melatonin or benadryl?

[laundrycrisis]

I would go to a psychiatrist who treats children and ask to look into other prescription medications for sleep if the one you have isn't working. Some of the older drugs that help with sleep might be able to be prescribed for him, but I don't know specifically which are approved for such young patients. I am not talking about the modern sleep aids like ambien, but the older ones such as temazepam. There is also an older antidepressant called trazodone that has a side effect of sleepiness and it is used off label for sleep. I would try to find an older psychiatrist who has been treating children for many years. Once a sleep cycle is messed up and the person is exhausted and not functioning well, the problem keeps feeding itself. Just getting a regular cycle established for a while can help.

[melissad2]

Does he need something when he gets up? Maybe he's so used to getting up at 5am his internal alarm clock wakes him up. I wake up at 6:30 nearly everyday without an alarm.

 

Random things I thought of to help...

Room darkening curtains.

Fan.

Waking him up earlier to "reset" his clock and try to get him back to bed.

Chamomile tea before bed.

Giving him a quiet activity to do so he doesn't wake you up too.

Completely wearing him out during the day (although this could backfire).

Could he have restless legs?

[JumpyTheFrog]

Some ideas:

 

Magnesium supplement at bedtime

Epsom salt bath

Might be waking up because of hunger or low blood sugar

Too many electronics or screen time in the evening

Stress

Thirsty or needs to use the bathroom at 5am

Maybe some noise wakes him-try having a fan going or wearing ear plugs

Too hot or too cold at night

 

Before this started, was he already an early bird?

[ondreeuh]

We started ds on Clonidine when he was 6 (about 50 lbs?), and he took .1 mg. We have kept the dose the same and he is about to turn 11 and is 85 lbs. It should work the first day you give it, but it is NOT instant - it takes a couple of hours. We have an alarm on my phone that goes off at 7 pm. and that's when he takes it. Then he plays for a bit, takes a shower, listens to a read-aloud while cuddled under a blanket on the couch, and is very ready to go to bed around 8:30 - 9:00. Now, there have been times that we have a lot going on and he stays up later. There seems to be a "window" for the Clonidine to work best. If he passes that window, then he has trouble falling asleep but it's not quite as bad as having no Clonidine on board. We have had a couple of times that he's gotten the med in the morning by mistake (sigh) and he will get drowsy and fall asleep by lunchtime.

 

There have been a couple of times we have not had the meds (vacation was extended, or forgot to pack it) and he just cannot wind down on his own. Now that he can read, he can read in his room but he won't fall asleep until like 4-6 AM. What is weird is that he was off of it and his ADHD meds for 2 weeks when he was recovering from open heart surgery. He wasn't taking narcotics, but his body was in healing mode and he was mellow. I secretly hoped that he was "fixed" and maybe his hyperactivity and sleep issues were caused by his heart function. At the two-week mark, he got wild again and couldn't sleep, so we restarted his meds. At least that proved to me that he wasn't dependent on them due to any kind of addiction thing. We tried one other time to quit the Clonidine, thinking he might be able to re-train his body to fall asleep naturally, and that was a disaster. He had no improvement despite working on relaxation techniques.

 

Before we tried Clonidine, we did try Epsom salt baths and I think they worked somewhat. He's just not a bath person but you could just do a foot bath. I should try that some time.

Edited June 1, 2012 by ondreeuh

[jallison25]

our son used to be like this. He would get up at all random hours from 3-6 and just be up for the day. In his case, i think he was so afraid of missing wake up time that he would be up and anxious about it. He does have some anxiety. We got him a alarm clock that is shaped like a stop light. When the light is red it is time to be sleeping. When it turns green you can wake up. Wake up time is 8, which he knows. He doesn't sleep till 8 most day, but does sleep much later, between 6:30-7:30 most days. this has been a lifesaver for us!

[LucyStoner]

Does he have anxiety? Have you seen a psychiatrist?

 

What worked for us (and I see that some of this did not work for you but will just list what worked for us in case there is an idea you can use):

 

-Creating a set bedtime routine. Exactly same order each night. PJs, teeth, water, read aloud book, turn off light and turn on meditation on ipod.

-yoga everyday

-melatonin when he is getting ready for bed.

-The kids meditation for sleep track on ipod REALLY helped.

-He started seeing a therapist to work on anxiety busting tricks. That has also helped a lot.

[sbgrace]

I have a child who is a problem sleeper too.

 

 

My son has a completely dark room. I don't normally admit this outside of family but it's absolutely dark. I handle his windows like hard core shift workers who want a completely dark room. Any light from the window is a super early wake up for us so this is a necessity--for this child--all the rest of us have normal windows! :tongue_smilie:I've got a system so it looks normal from the outside. He has two white noise machines. He has a draft thing under his bedroom door to help, again, with any light and I have his bed positioned so any door light isn't visible.

 

We do melatonin (smallest effective dose) every night. It's good for getting sleep here. The problem is when we get in a downward spiral and my son starts waking earlier and earlier. The more over-tired the earlier he wakes until he's waking at 2 or 3 am even. It's a mess. If your child sleeps until 5 no matter (? is this correct--it's the same no matter how early or late the bedtime is?) what I'd do whatever it took to get him to bed super early so that a 5 am wake time is still the sleep he needs. Then I'd have a set up so he could manage by himself for a couple of hours in the morning until I got up if possible. If he isn't special needs I'd think he could manage by himself for a little while at this age? My son, who is special needs, is 8 and when he's in a super early wake phase I have breakfast stuff out and he knows how to handle himself until the rest of us are up.

 

:grouphug: